Desert Island Tricks
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Desert Island Tricks
Simon Lipkin
What if you had to rewrite and perform the second act of a show with almost no preparation? In this episode, we sit down with the extraordinarily talented Simon Lipkin, who opens up about his remarkable journey from starring in Avenue Q at just 20 years old to his current role in Oliver with Cameron McIntosh. Simon’s career has been anything but conventional, and he shares the highs and challenges of his life in theater, including his sudden need to improvise and perform under intense pressure.
Listeners are in for a treat as Simon takes us through his transition into the world of mentalism and his role in Derren Brown's Unbelievable. We delve into the indispensable tools for any mentalist, such as the peak wallet and Harribo by Lord Harry. Simon's insights on the importance of a well-thought-out narrative and how to tailor tricks for a personal touch promise to enrich any magician’s repertoire. With Simon’s acting background and passion for improv, he offers unique perspectives on making magic feel interactive and tailor-made for the audience.
But that’s not all—Simon also shares his exhilarating experiences on stage, including performing at the Royal Variety Show and the thrill of creating new acts on the fly. From discussing the fascinating world of PK Touches to recounting magic mishaps and the joy of performing with simplicity and ingenuity, this episode is a celebration of Simon Lipkin's multifaceted career. Whether you’re an aspiring magician or a seasoned performer, Simon’s stories and advice are sure to inspire and entertain.
Simon's Desert Island List:
1) Stealth Assassin Wallet by Peter Nardi
2) Harribo by Lord Harri
3) Stirling by International Magic
4) Magicians Graphology by Andy Nyman
5) PK Touches
6) Smash & Stab
7) Change in Pocket / Swami
8) Try Colour by Simon Lipkin
Book) Dunningers Complete Encyclopaedia of Magic
Item) Rubiks Cube
A podcast about being an artist from a practical perspective. The series will...
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Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
So, all of a sudden, we were open. We weren't even, you know, a week away from opening. We were open, the show was open, the audiences were coming and we had to scrap act two, six weeks of rehearsals, down the drain and go. Okay, let's figure this out.
Speaker 1:So, all of a sudden, bit by bit, we were building act two and one of the things that happened was we um, they wrote this end routine, uh, to finish the show, and it involved a couple of things that, magically, I had never done before. And they said well, we want to, we want to get this done, well, obviously, as much time as you need, but also we need a show. So I went on stage the next day, having learned about 15 pages of script for this whole routine, this last section routine. That's sort of all right because I can waffle around, that that's my happy place. But magically, there was stuff I was scared of. I was genuinely scared because it would be like saying to someone go and do a, a finding the aces routine that you have never done before, but do it in front of a thousand people and you haven't learned, ever learned, how to do that before the day before you're going on to do it.
Speaker 4:Hello and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. We've got a live in-person recording, which actually hasn't happened that many times. Now today's guest you would have seen the title, I know at this point. You've seen the title, so you're going to know a little bit about this guest already. He has literally burst onto the magic scene over the past I would say half a year, year and from what's coming up, there is going to be a lot of this person everywhere. He's got some incredible tricks already out with the 1914. We've got a very special live recording with him and at the point of you listening to this, not at the time of recording, there is also a course by this person Because he's here. Normally I wouldn't do this, but I'm going to let him tell you a little bit about his past and his career and why we're very thrilled to have a certain course on Unlimited today. Today's guest is the incredible Simon Lipkin.
Speaker 1:Yay, yay, I clapped myself. That's what happened there. I clapped myself. That's depressing.
Speaker 4:So, it's good to have you here, and it's nice to be doing it in person as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's much nicer to have a conversation in person.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. Now the guys, if they haven't met you, yeah, um, I actually accidentally met simon when I was 16, 18, yeah, don't pause too much just getting rid of um, because simon was in one of my favorite musicals of all time, which was called avenue q. Good show, good show in it. It was phenomenal, what a phenomenal show. Um, and actually in the original recording I actually showed simon that I've got his original program.
Speaker 1:That's on that show.
Speaker 4:You still had a program from I still have it with you in it I was 20 years old.
Speaker 1:I was 20 years old when we did that um, and now I am almost what's the word? Dead, so, um, so yeah, that was a long time ago, but that was my first leading role in the west. Well, my second leader, but my first big, huge, original west end cast leading role at 20 years old for Cameron McIntosh back in 2006 and, in sort of a full circle moment, I've just started. Well, for the first time since I've worked for him, then I've just we're in rehearsals for oliver. Right now we're not this is a few weeks before, but when you listen to it I'll be in rehearsal. So I was trying to be professional like a normal a normal publicity person, but jamie hasn't got a clue what he's doing so Don't tell them that they don't need to know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so as of when you're listening to this, I'm in rehearsals for Oliver with Cameron McIntosh to play Fagin in the brand new production. It's going really well.
Speaker 4:But we will be going to see that one as well and for you guys. So Simon is actually as well as a magician, and primarily mentalist, I would argue yeah, I mean exclusively.
Speaker 1:I can't do any sleight of hand.
Speaker 4:I mean not a single piece of sleight of hand technically, one of the routines that you're teaching is sleight of hand, is mentalism in in the uh, in the in in my live lecture, which has already been out because we're filming.
Speaker 1:It would have already been yeah because we're filming this. It would have already been. Yeah, You're terrible at this. This is your podcast. Sorry, guys. It would have been out like a couple of weeks already. It would have been yeah, so not. I'm going to be teaching that I didn't you taught. I want to start this again. This is a car crash. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 4:You're making people listen to this. I think they worked out at this point, um, but yeah, so simon is actually an actor. Uh, recently, most recently, I saw simon three times in, um, deron brown's unbelievable which was phenomenal and, if I might say, you were definitely for me, at the very least, the standout performer in that show. Thank you, and you really carried a lot of the, the themes and certainly the magic that you performed in that show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was really fun. I mean, what an incredible experience. So yeah, like you say, I've spent my life acting. That is my, that's my day job, which, ironically, for most actors their day job is not acting. So, um, I've been so lucky and it's not I really say this with no sort of fake humility or anything like that it is. I've been so lucky. When I was young, I got a lucky break and then it's a little bit like if you have to buy paint, you just go to B&Q or Farrow Ball, because that's where you know sells paint that my career is basically backed off of. I got a lucky break when I was young because I could do some weird voices and I just fit a job and no one better than me was available at that time and then that sort of gave me a career, which is amazing and I'm so grateful for it and that has led all the way.
Speaker 1:When I was little, I was obsessed with just showman and variety. I was obsessed with just showman and variety. I was obsessed with Sammy Davis Jr and Tommy Cooper and Morecambe and Wise and all of the people that no other little 10-year-old boy was obsessed with. I had no interest in football, I just wanted to go. Well, how do you transition from a song and dance into a magic trick and then some juggling and an impression? I was popular and uh, so I, I, I was obsessed with it and magic was a huge thing that I was obsessed with when I was a kid. Um, and I did a lot of it and I learned a lot and I got my first proper little taste of it when I my secondary school was a performing arts school I went to a place called the sylvia young Theatre School and it was in Marylebone. So I had to get on the tube every day in London and get on the tube for an hour and whatever every day and go to school by myself as a kid. And on the way back I'd come through Charing Cross, which is where it's no longer there, sadly, but it's where Davenport's was in the, in the underground there. It's where Davenport's was in the in the underground there, and I used to.
Speaker 1:I used to get off the train on my way home from school and I would go into Davenport's and because I was working as a kid, as an actor, I had a little bit of money and and like proper money, so I would get magic. Most people had like pocket money for normal stuff. I had like magic pocket money. So I would take a bit of money. I would go to Davenport's maybe once a week, once every other week and I would just spend a little bit of time in there looking at tricks and buying new stuff.
Speaker 1:And and then life happened to my career. I kind of focused on acting and moving forward in that direction. And then I, um, I met this man who was completely unknown to me but was really nice. We got like a house on fire and he was a brilliant actor and I respected him and we got on very well. And he said he did a bit of magic. And I was like, oh, that's exciting, I do a bit of magic. So I started showing him my slip force and I started doing a one ahead routine and I was showing this to Andy Nyman and and then I learned who Andy Nyman was and I wanted the ground to open up and swallow me whole because I had shown him what I thought was an incredibly deceptive double lift. So uh, he, he, um, he introduced me properly back into the world. I'd always loved it done bits, but he took me to the magic circle for the first time and he sort of been my unknowing magic mentor through this whole thing.
Speaker 1:And I think we have very similar approaches. And when I say that I mean his brain is like you. I can't even come close to his thinking, but in that terms of approaching mentalism from a very theatrical way and I don't mean grandiose, so I mean the intention of the move and knowing that the greatest form of misdirection is you and your storytelling and how you can make someone think or feel, and actually the complicated method which I know I understand. I love toys, I love crazy methods, I love all of the work that goes into it. But actually when I'm working and when I'm performing I want the simplest thing to get me from a to b that allows me to perform the hell out of it. And I really learned that from andy. I really learned that from andy.
Speaker 1:And so where I've waffled to but I'm getting to, is this whole life of acting and the magic coming into my life.
Speaker 1:The magic circle I'm honored to be a member of the inner magic circle and it this all kind of came together, sort of culminating in getting a call from Andy saying we're doing this new Darren show. Do you fancy it. So all of a sudden, my whole life being on a West End stage and my other whole happy life, my hobby, my love of magic came together and for a little while I got to work with. I mean undeniably, darren is the greatest magical stage performer of our generation. I know there are other incredible magicians. That does not mean that I think, but as a stage performer I'd say that Darren is one of the best stage performers magical or not just best live performers that I've seen ever. So to work with him and Andy and Andrew O'Connor, uh, and and the other amazing surrounding team around that, and get to put on a show was just a an experience that I will never forget and loved with all of my heart so, um, we didn't do the little preamble, so I'll do it now.
Speaker 4:For those of you who have only just tuned into this podcast and you've never been here before, the concept is that we're about to travel to Simon's own desert island. When he goes to this desert island, he's only allowed to take eight tricks, one book and one non-magic item that he uses for magic. He can't take anything else. Particulars, where the island is, who's on it, et cetera doesn't really matter. It's more about the ultimate list of tricks that Simon would take with him if he could only perform that for forever. So let's all whisk you away to your desert island. What's in your first position?
Speaker 1:I'm taking a peak wallet. That's what I'm taking. There's two options for this peak wallet, because it it's the staple of of a mentalist. In it it's it's so useful you can do anything and everything. There is no limitation on what routine you have to do or how you have to do the thing, or you know it is. It's a versatile. It's a versatile thing that I literally never leave the house without a peak wallet. I have two that I carry. I carry a Orphic wallet by Lewis LaVallon, the 1914. And I also carry a warning branding stealth assassin, produced by?
Speaker 1:what's the name of the company? What is it? You say it Jamie Alakazam Alakazam. So they're my two wallets of choice. I love them, I think they're very good.
Speaker 1:I just think that there's something about a peak wallet that just is fun and I sort of I tire a little bit of the conversation of like but what's the justification of writing down, putting it back in the peak wallet, said by someone carrying a in anchor chief, that turns it into a cane, like get in the bin, like look at my box, look at my box trimmed with silver glitter, like, but you've got a problem with writing something down and put it in a wallet. All right, all right, mate, I may your stairs look deep, like it Come on, come on, it's all right, everyone has a guy, the mentalists. But it's funny and it it takes, it takes chutzpah, it takes chutzpah. I should, that's a Yidd word. It takes, it takes, it takes balls to to do a lot of mentalism and and so um, I don't know. I just a peak wallet is just powerhouse for me, absolute powerhouse, and if you use it in the right way, I think, if you use it in a very sort of limited, linear way of can you write this down or do draw something and then put it in here and, and now, immediately, I'll tell you what it is.
Speaker 1:Then there's rubbish, but that's like anything. It's what we're talking about. It's what Andy's passionate about, it's what I'm passionate about. It's how do you take that and, all of a sudden, all of a sudden, use that and time misdirect and really justify those things, because you can get anyone to do anything, right? I mean, look at us now to describe. You can't see us, or can you? But it's. We sat in a room with a desk in between us, with headphones on, talking to microphones. If you showed that to anyone, go, why are you doing that? We just are, because that's the way it works. It's you're in charge of the process, you're in charge of the narrative. If you, if you, if you believe in the process of whatever's happening, then so will they and you can justify anything. You can justify anything with good, well thought out narrative. So first on my list a peak wallet, please okay, I think that's a superb choice.
Speaker 4:Thank you, however, go on. I'm going to be devil's advocate, because this is what I've done to everyone who's mentioned a peak wallet.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:When you go, you're only allowed to do one routine with your peak wallet. What is the routine that you would do with it?
Speaker 1:I would do. Am I specifically using one of those wallets?
Speaker 4:If those are your preferred ones, then yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, using one of those wallets, if those are your preferred ones in here. Okay, then I would be doing uh with my orphic wallet. I would be doing a variation of it's kind of like a um, a name divination, their name, and a one ahead routine with sort of their name ends up in a inside the wallet, but I'm also getting other pieces of information. It's it's just like a getting to know you kind of routine, but it's a whole one ahead. It's kind of based on ben williams is anything routine? Um, there's forces and it's like a multi-phase routine just with one one big wallet and a couple of bits of paper the uh ben williams's trick.
Speaker 1:Anything's superb, it's a great, it's a great trick, and he's. I really liked his version, his original version of it, um, but I sort of did a version of it using using an orphic wallet and built a whole kind of little routine off the back of that with a whole bunch of stuff in there.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, very fun it's great and um both of those wallets superb. I own both of them as well.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. I love both of them equally Brilliant wallets. For different reasons they're great. Yeah, it depends on the performance situation, but they both have very, very strong merits.
Speaker 4:But incredibly great first choice. I think the fact that you can do so much with that as well is superb. But that brings us on to your second item. So that brings us onto your second item.
Speaker 1:So what's in your second position this is going to catch you off guard. It's not mentalism, it's a trick that I just love doing.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 1:All right, do you want to guess it?
Speaker 4:Is it a coin trick?
Speaker 1:Mm sort of. But no, it isn't a coin trick, but you could do it with a coin. This is Harry Boat by Lord Harry. I love this trick. It's right up my street. It's silly but impressive. It leaves the talk, it's joyous, right.
Speaker 1:So for those of you that don't know and I cannot, if you are a walk around magician, this trick, get it. It's so good. Um, you borrow a ring or a signed coin or whatever, but I would do it with a ring and, uh, you, uh, you chat away for a little bit and that ring either vanishes or changes places with a little Haribo ring and then you kind of say, well, if that's there, I don't know where yours is and you pull out a small packet of Haribo from a pocket or a back pocket or a jacket pocket or whatever, and sealed inside the little packet of haribo is the borrowed ring. It is simple, it is direct, it is the method is easy and classic and brilliant and it's just joyous. It's a joyous routine that brings fun to everyone.
Speaker 1:Also, you need outs, but you don't hear people talking about outs, like if you're going to do a trick you should have an out, just in case, you know, maybe that can go awry. Well, this has the best out ever. They get sweets, so yeah that you do magic for them. They're amazed and then you leave them with snacks like, come on, that covers all the bases, but it's a brilliant trick. Go check it out, lord Harry. He's got some really clever stuff, but that is my favourite of his. Yeah, it's brilliant.
Speaker 4:He's got a great what three words trick, which I thought was a really interesting concept as well. Yeah, yeah yeah, very smart, he's great and he's super lovely as well.
Speaker 1:Really nice guy.
Speaker 4:Very lovely, very lovely, very lovely ex -army yeah, I know I have a friend of mine actually that does a version of that. Uh, when I was following him gigging it, watching the response from the audience, it really does get tremendous response from people brilliant.
Speaker 1:It's an object to an impossible location. It's fun, it's different, the transposition makes sense. Um, like I've never loved ring flight right, I've never. Just I just I think it's a brilliant trick. It's a brilliant trick, but it just doesn't connect with me. But the best version I ever saw of it was where someone sort of did what looked like a spellbound move and it changed to a key. So they had the key in their hand and then where the key should be, their ring was. So I really like that. The um, the, the ring, their borrowed ring changes to a haribo ring. That makes a lot of sense to me. Um, so that's lovely. Uh, I just yeah, it's fun, it's joyous, it makes people smile. I think if you're doing magic and it's yeah, perfect, perfect trick it's like a um, a non-spoken narrative, isn't it?
Speaker 4:You don't have to say anything, they just know straight away what's happened. Exactly that Great choice. But that brings us on to your third. What's in your third position?
Speaker 1:So this one's got a little story for me, because this is something very special. The Magic Circle is genuinely very important to me. It makes me so happy and it really changed my life and I've made some incredible friends there and I just love it. So the next on my list is a trick called Sterling, which is by International Magic. Martin at International Magic is one of his creations. It is, I think, maybe 15 pounds. It's one of his creations. It is, I think, maybe 15 pounds. It's a 15 pound packet trick and it is the trick that got me into the magic circle. Uh, it is a self worker. It is very simple, but, oh my gosh, is it falling? It is a brilliant trick.
Speaker 1:So here's what happens you give your spectator five coins 1P, 2p, 5p, 10p, 20p and they mix them up into and you give them a prediction before you start and they mix those coins up into any order that they want. They can change their mind as much as they like. And then you a deck of cards that's been in play the whole time, and then you a deck of cards that's been in play the whole time. You then say, okay, we're going to deal as many cards as there are pennies. So if there's one, people do one. If there's five P, that will deal five cards. So you just deal in whatever order they've put those cards. They put those coins in, deal the cards in front of them, get through however you want. Look at the concert. You've stopped on your prediction spot on. Every time that sounds wicked. It's so baffling and fair and falling. It's a great trick. Uh, Martin, uh, mcmillan has got. He's a brilliant thinker. I mean, um, international magic is the last standing magic shop in London, I think it's the last brick and mortar in london.
Speaker 1:Yeah and they they're lovely and it's a gorgeous shop to go into and it's it's really sweet. But martin martin has some creations that are his, that are just mind-blowingly good, you know, and they're not a big company, they're not a big thing, so they don't scream and shout about them and they don't have huge distribution and all of that sort of stuff. But if you're ever by there and you get a chance, go in there and just ask to see Martin's tricks and you, you won't, you won't regret it. He's a very, very smart man. So yeah for getting me into. I did other stuff, as where I didn't just do that trick. But yeah, it holds a very special place in my heart because it fooled a lot of people in the room, and so Sterling by Martin McMillan from International Magic is going on my list.
Speaker 4:Great. It's always nice when I do these lists, when someone throws in one that is maybe not as well known. Yeah, no one will know that trick, because it gives everyone the opportunity to go and check it out. I'll definitely be checking that one out. It sounds really interesting. It sounds like something as well. I'm guessing it was great for upscaling to parlor.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, exactly that. So super easy, super easy, really lovely, fair, impossible In this world of making everything look impossible. You know, I mean we can all I'm sure a lot of us have done it, I do it regularly Get out your calculators. Let's look at the impossible. This just feels a bit more sort of tangible because you are holding these things, they are. This is a very impossible outcome from stuff that is just a little bit more sort of interactive and actually with you. So it's a nice alternative.
Speaker 4:if you want to do something like that, it's, yeah, joyous trick I think by looking at your choices so far, so far, I haven't seen what you've got coming very organic in the way that you think about things and do things. So we've got a peak wallet yeah, something that you carry harry bow, normal every the way that you think about things and do things. So we've got a peak wallet yeah, something that you carry Harry bow, normal every day. Change that you have in your pocket for Sterling yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4:So, quite an organic approach to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really love stuff to come out of a situation. So actually when I perform I don't really have a a sort of set that I do. I love to. I know a lot of people will say, have a quick, snappy opener that you can amaze them in 30 seconds, and I think that is brilliant and sometimes I will do something like that. But actually I really love to just talk to them and just get to know them and so maybe this is from my sort of acting background, but I do a lot of improv and there's just sort of this basic rule of acting which is listen and respond.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you've all heard that. Be in the moment, listen and respond. And often if you just have a conversation with people for just a minute or two and genuinely listen and respond, you will know exactly what magic to perform for that group, for the energy. You will know. Okay, I don't need to perform at them, I can now perform with them because I know that this group someone has said we're celebrating a birthday, so now I can, with my pink wallet, go a birthday's routine where I get other people's birthdays, and all of a sudden now this moment of magic feels completely connected to what we were talking about and feels a lot more magical because we did magic with their lives, with their situation, rather than me going that's very Now, any card at any number or whatever.
Speaker 1:Do you know what I mean? Like everything is more, everything is more organic and even if it isn't even if it isn't organic, it should feel organic to them. I've still only got whatever five tricks in my pocket. I'm going to do one of those five tricks, but I'm going to listen and respond and look for the in to get to the position where it feels like that trick is just for them. We're having a conversation. I go oh, of course, then let's try this and have this experience and it should feel like that trick is tailor made for them in that moment because of what we've been talking about. So it's less about the object being organic, it's more about the situation being organic. It's more about the situation being organic is what I care about.
Speaker 4:It's a very that's a very darren brown approach as well. His whole ethos is it should always be about the audience member on stage. It should be about their story, it should be about their experience and never the performer themselves, exactly. Well, he says that in his early career it was about him, but he quickly learned that that wasn't his style.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then it become about other people.
Speaker 1:It's also less interesting and there's sort of a trick to that which is, weirdly, if you make it about the other person, you look better. You look better you, because if you are good, you're still the one doing the stuff and you will have plenty of time to have glory. But actually, if you give to others truly and generously, then you look better, and that includes your audience. That, like, even if you're in a close up situation, the more that you give to the other person that you are performing with and I say with very deliberately and not to or at you look better. So it is sort of a slightly self-serving technique to make it all about the other person, because by doing that you inherently achieve more as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, very, very true. And that swiftly brings us onto your halfway point thank you, number four.
Speaker 1:Uh, so this, um, we're going to go to the niman catalog. Um, we are going to take, uh, magician's graphology is what we're going to take. So this is andy nyman's version of sneak thief by larry becker. So the original was all done in. I think a lot of people unknowingly call magicians griffology sneak thief because that's what it's based off. But the original sneak thief was all in wallets, these leather wallets, and you would do all of this stuff. It was a lot. It was a very prop, heavy and process heavy. And andy took this brilliant handling and got rid of all of that stuff with Larry's blessing and consent, and created Magician's Graphology, which, in my opinion, is one of the strongest tricks as a mentalist you can do. It's also fully scalable. You can do this thing with some billets close up or you can get some big old bits of board and do this as a huge stage piece, and I know many mentalists that do. It's just brilliant and completely versatile. So, uh, the original plot is it. Should I talk everyone through the plots?
Speaker 1:I'm just kind of yeah, yeah, you can talk through so um, the original plot is you have four bits of uh, four bits of card or whatever, and you would give them out to four different people and you would say draw something. Everyone draw something different. Put them face down and give them a mix up so we don't know where anyone's is. And then you pick up the top one from the pile and you'd be able to then divine okay, this is a picture of a cat, and I think this belongs to person number three. And then this is a picture of a cat, and I think this belongs to person number three. And then this is a picture of a house. That's person number one. This is a picture of a dog. That's person number two. And then you'd have one card left and you'd say now, obviously, this belongs to person number four. It would be unimpressive if I just gave it back to you. So let's try something different. And then you can divine what that is sight unseen and replicate the drawing or tell them what they wrote down or any of those things.
Speaker 1:It's just a brilliant routine that is fully, fully customizable to whatever that situation is. So, again, like we were just talking about, it's something that I always am ready to do. It's something that I always am ready to do, because if we, if we're talking and we get onto a subject matter of I don't know, someone says you look like budget Colin Farrell to me or whatever like that, and and then someone goes, oh yeah, jane really fancies Colin. Uh, then we can go all right. Well, let's uh, celebrity lookalikes. Okay, go for the random ones.
Speaker 1:And now all of a sudden, this routine is about who? What celebrity do you look like? And then we cannot make it obvious. We can get random, or you can pick for each other, or first kisses, or tattoos that you, tattoos that you've always wanted, or I do a close up q a with magicians, graphology, where people write down their questions and I can tell who's asked what and then answer the last question. You, you know it's completely adaptable to any situation and it's again Nyman's brilliant thinking, which is simple, clean, easy to do, very bold, but powerhouse. I just can't. Magician or mentalist, boyist, boy, oh boy, should you learn this trick? It's brilliant it is.
Speaker 4:it's one of my favorite routines and two, two thoughts on that. In that same vein, go on um darren brown's recent show yeah show, showman, showman. The opening routine, best version of Sneak Thief ever. Literally. But what I loved about that was they took the method and pushed it so much further by enabling another set of revelation on the end essentially it's so brilliant, it was phenomenal.
Speaker 4:It's so brilliant, it was so well constructed. It was phenomenal. It was so brilliant, it was so well constructed. And Neumann adds another version, yeah, which I literally love and I hope one day I get to perform it. So it was in his recent lecture notes yeah, and it's with mobile phones With the mobile phones, very good. Yeah, that opening a show would be phenomenal. Yeah, the thought of having that bag and people putting their phones in, yeah, phenomenal. Yeah, the thought of having that bag and people putting their phones in, yeah, what a great way to start a show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's absolutely brilliant. It's absolutely, but that's what I mean. It it's a utility device. I think what I'm apart I mean not all of it. You'll see, the more and more we go, I love utility, utility devices, um, and a lot of what I create when I'm creating magic is what I want to give you something that you can. I can come up with 10 ideas, but hopefully you'll come up with another five and that person comes up with another. This minute, like I love giving people something where they can just go well, this is adaptable to so many situations and that I I adore magic like that great choices.
Speaker 4:Uh again, as simon said I can't put it any better than simon do check out niman's graphology. It's just it's phenomenal, it's brilliant hello guys.
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Speaker 4:And that takes us over your halfway point to number five Number five.
Speaker 1:I am going to take PK Touches. Huge fan of PK Touches and what you can do with them and I love exploring what can be perceived to be happening. What can be perceived to be happening. So I really enjoy sort of the the sort of, I guess, most common version, which is you touch someone on the shoulder or the arm or the whatever, and the other person raises their hand and feels it and that's great. But I really enjoy taking that mythology and and seeing what else can be done with it.
Speaker 1:Uh, so recently I started exploring the concept of um, like name revelations.
Speaker 1:If, say, for example, if I have peaked a piece of information or a name of someone's loved one or or someone that they're close to or whatever, and started to look at, well, could I, via pk touches, then get the other person to reveal that name letter by letter.
Speaker 1:So now, all of a sudden, I'm not revealing the name, I'm sort of getting a sense of stuff and drawing on this person's back and the other person now, letter by letter, is revealing the name that that person has thought of. So taking PK touches and pushing them in a different direction and using that, but also then just doing the sort of the well-known version of the routine because it's great, it blows people away and it's so fun. And it excites me because it's it's just bold and ballsy and you have to. Really it's all about you. There's nothing to rely on there. It's why I love pseudo hypnotism and pk touches and I kind of bundle that all into one that it's just all about you and what you can get away with and how you can truly connect with someone and what can happen in that moment well, I listeners who have followed me throughout, however many years now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we'll know that that would certainly be on my list somewhere. Yeah, um, because I love it. It's the the plot that I've explored the most in my entire career. It's my 1,000th, 10,000th time. I've done it quite literally, 10,000 plus times. Wow, I love it. It's just phenomenal. Yeah, so 100%, do you have Go?
Speaker 1:on.
Speaker 4:Do you have a favourite set of influences, maybe from different people or methods?
Speaker 3:I sort of you cherry pick right, you, you kind of go well, that's a good one, that's a good one, that's a good one.
Speaker 1:I mean, I sat in one of my favorite ones I have ever learned. Uh, I don't know whose it is, which is terrible, but, um, chris cox taught me in an italian restaurant. He went you ever seen this one? He doesn't even do them, but he just went. Have you ever seen this one? He did it. I was like, well, that's in. You just keep accumulating all of these different versions. So, obviously, peter has got great work on it, leon manor has got great work on it, banachek's got good work on it. Like there's, there's, there's lots of good stuff on it, um, but this one I'll I'll show it to you afterwards because I'm sure you'll know it, but it's a good one, it's a really good one.
Speaker 4:I'm excited to see that Literally I could talk for hours on it.
Speaker 3:I love it. I think it's great.
Speaker 4:That takes us to your sixth. We're approaching towards the tail end, but again, not a lot has changed in terms of the organicness of it. I think it's great. The thought that you could just rock up so far on your list. Rock up to any situation. Look like you've got nothing on you and then straightaway go into these routines.
Speaker 1:When I gig, I basically turn up with a stack of billets and a wallet. Great that's it.
Speaker 4:So that takes us to what's your sixth item. Okay, right, that's it. So that takes us to what's your sixth item, okay.
Speaker 1:I'm struggling now because there's a lot that I wanted to put in, so I'm going to go with. Okay, let me talk you through my process because I need help. So the next one was going to be a smash and stab routine, but here's the thing I don't ever really perform them, I just love them, and also I think the ending is disappointing. But I still love it. I really love it, and so I'm obsessed with creating close-up smash and stab situations that that end with something sort of vaguely interesting. Um, so uh, I showed jamie one of these the other week. He liked it.
Speaker 4:It was all right, it was good. More than liked it loved it I I. The first thing I asked simon at that point was where can I get it? Yeah, because if it was available I would have bought probably two of them just to have a backup there and then yeah, not, not available yet not available yet not available. Maybe soon in the future.
Speaker 1:Who knows, who knows? Anyway, cryptic, but I love smash and stabs, I love credit card smashes, I love anything that adds a little bit of drama and jeopardy into the proceedings. So I've come up with a couple of credit card smashes because I really like them. I think that's very fun, I like a phone spot, I like any kind of roulette, destructive natured uh, activities, uh, magical or not, um, so I uh, yeah, I think I just really enjoy them and also I think maybe it's ego because I'm desperate to solve the end of a smash and stab. Um, because inherently so we should talk about again, I guess, and we can't assume that everyone always knows what we're talking about. So, um, smash and stab are the routines where there's like one spike on a block of wood and then you have, you know, you stick it in a bag and you have five other bags and you smack your hand down and then you've miraculously missed the spike.
Speaker 1:Or it's an egg, or you stick someone's watch in a bag and smash them up, or someone's phone or a credit card, any kind of roulette, you know, we'll, we'll guess until, inevitably, we get it right. And the problem with the trick is, even though it can go wrong and uh, that that's never fun, or whether it be someone else's possessions or your safety, the ending is in their minds it's not going to go wrong. So the way that people that have gotten over that so far is to heighten the risk factor for yourself. So let's look at something like uh, what's it called risk? Is that what it's called? Uh risk, which is with staple guns, you, you have one loaded staple gun and the rest are empty. Now, that heightens the risk for the performer.
Speaker 1:So we up the drama in that moment, but ultimately we still end in the same way, which is safety right and it is impressive, it's, it's a lot of fun, but it's how can you solve that ending of um, pushing towards something that happens at the end of a smash and stab routine that feels like it, it ends. It ends not just with inevitable success, and so a lot of people's thoughts towards that are maybe to just basically tag on a different magic trick on the end, which I think works. But I would say that that is 50 cop out, because it's. You know, you take a whatever. Uh, I've seen versions of it where someone progressively reveals a thought of piece of information through it, and I actually think that's probably a really good idea. It's the, it's the best idea that I've sort of seen so far of putting yourself under pressure to, to and the process the sort of fake process being that by being under that amount of pressure you push yourself into that heightened state of thinking to divine that name. So that's quite good. I think that's quite interesting. But I just kind of love the plot. I love the drama of it, I love the theatricality of it. I mean, especially when you get those big ones on stage. I think I've seen like Aaron Crowe doing it blindfolded while someone beats a drum Like it's so unnecessary, but I kind of just love them.
Speaker 1:I own so many of them and I tell you this now I have never performed a stage smash and stab ever. I own maybe 10. Never performed a single one of them Close up. I have done. In fact, my invisible deck routine is a smash and stab, so I, I, I end the invisible the. This two bag smash and stab with the nail is through the invisible deck. So they select the card and do all of that sort of stuff. But again, it's all right, but it's a bit of a cop-out ending. But it it's sort of. I mean, nothing can't be solved with an invisible deck, right, how do you end this invisible deck? Yeah, do that. So smash and stab. That's it. Waffled too long on that. So that brings us on to number seven. What's in your seventh position? I've got two left right.
Speaker 4:Yes, I've got two left. Um well, uh, I'm going to pick.
Speaker 1:Shall I pick one of my tricks or?
Speaker 1:shall I pick something that's meaningful, do the one that you love the most. So if it's one of yours and go for it, then. Uh, join me on stage at the criterion theater during Darren Brown's unbelievable, because there was one moment every night that brought me so much joy. Uh, we, it was a very, very. It was just changing pocket. Right, it was very simple. We were kind of doing this seancey, spirit, silly kind of vibe routine at the end of the show which culminated in this mental reveal.
Speaker 1:Um, but one moment was, uh, the premise was someone was in a trance on stage and their astral form would leave their body and could travel anywhere in the auditorium. And so I would have someone on stage and I would ask anyone who had any loose change of them to stand up, and then I would let that person on stage select anyone in the audience that they wanted to, completely free choice anywhere in the theater. Uh, they would stay standing. I would ask them do you know how much change they have you have in your pocket? And they would say yes or no. I'd say leave it there, don't count it. And at that point, um, the astral traveler on stage would, uh, would slowly leave his body, travel out to the audience. Uh, in a trance state, right down the amount of change. You just counted in that person's pocket. We put it in an envelope, we'd seal it, we'd give it to the spectator on stage to hold. We'd say how much change did you have? Can you count it for me? They'd say you know, £1.78. Open the envelope, let's have a look £1.78. It was it. Just it was so derrity and it made me so happy Because also, just that mumbling You've must have.
Speaker 1:You've ever done those tricks where it's not a gasp, it's not a way, it's like mumbling it's. I didn't know that mumbling was the best reaction you could hope for. But you do a trick and you hear that. But then you hear this kind of and this kind of just murmur. That was very hard to then stop and control. But, ah, the joy that it brought me every single night. And obviously I mean, if you, I'm sure most of you know the method and how that is working. But it was a lot of fun, a lot of fun to do that every single night.
Speaker 1:Obviously I didn't do anything, I was just watching it and talking but to be part of that on stage gosh, and then to do that on the Royal Variety Show to be able to stand there. I did, I think, 15 minutes by myself. Well, me and Bradley Walsh on the Royal Var royal variety show, just doing comedy and magic and and recreating that moment, uh, with bradley. Um, I mean, yeah, it was a very special trick to to to stand at the royal alberhor, to in the west end on the royal alberhor stage, performing, introed by darren brown on the royal variety, and then doing 50. I did longer than Cher, like, and she had three wigs like it. It was meant it was mental, so that one trick held such a special place in my heart.
Speaker 4:I think the without going into method at all, yeah, um, I think the way that the version that you did in that show was constructed was really clever as well, because it took the heat off of you before the heat was ever going to be on you, because it wasn't.
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't, I genuinely didn't have to do anything.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so it's, it's. It was just so clever. And what you mentioned about the mumbling a hundred percent. Oh, who knew mumbling? It's amazing because it means that they've engaged in what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and they cared. They don't, they can't, they lose all etiquette and just have to talk about it. It's great. It's great. The his unbelievable was not smooth sailing right, it was. It was a lot of hard work and I think we couldn't I'm sure they won't mind us talking openly about it that we all have in various places.
Speaker 1:So act two of the show originally was meant to be a play. It was a recreation of a play called Will the Witch and the Watchman, which was a 125-year-old masculine farce. It was the longest running show in the West End at that time and it had never been seen again on stage and so we had recreated that play for the first time in 125 years and that's what we rehearsed for five, six weeks. Act one was a magic show. Act two was a play, essentially a little bit of magic here and there, but a magical farce is what it was and we had jim steinmeier as the doing the illusions for the play it was. It was a lot and and solid and fun and brilliantly funny and good. And we did it a couple of times and very quickly we realized I say we, andrew, deron, andy, just realized it doesn't work. It's not because the thing isn't good, it's because it's just, it just doesn't work. Like it's too jarring to watch a magic show and then watch a play, and then you don't really know what it is.
Speaker 1:And so, all of a sudden, we were open we weren't even, you know, a week away from opening. We were open, the show was open, the audiences were coming and we had to scrap act two, six weeks of rehearsals down the drain and go okay's, figure this out. So all of a sudden, bit by bit, we were building act two and one of the things that happened was we um, they wrote myself and uh, sam creasy, this end routine, uh, to finish the show. And it involved a couple of things that, magically, I had never done before. And they said well, we want to get this done. Well, obviously, as much time as you need, but also we need a show. So I went on stage the next day, having learned about 15 pages of script for this whole routine.
Speaker 1:This last section routine because it was basically just me talking A lot of it was just me talking and went on stage and and that's sort of all right Cause I can waffle around, that that's my happy place. But magically there was stuff I was scared of. I was genuinely scared because it would be like saying to someone I don't really know what the comparison is but go and do a finding the aces routine that you have never done before, but do it in front of a thousand people and you haven't ever learned how to do that before the day before you're going on to do it. So it's not like you know about how to find all those breathers and do all of that sort of stuff, it's just go on and do stuff. And so it was hard but I was incredibly proud of it and also I would do that in any other.
Speaker 1:I used to do a show called nativity, which are the films these Christmas films called nativity, which I do, and we did a live stage version of it and that's improvised. So I'd go out in the Hammersmith Apollo in front of 3000 people 10 times a week and improvise. It doesn't scare me at all. So I had to put myself in that mindset of kind of going okay, well, it's the same with magic you just gotta do it right. You just gotta do it and if you can, if you can preach all of this stuff about misdirection and personality and and confidence and storytelling being the greatest you've got put into practice and it it happened and it worked. So the pride in it and the joy in it, um, and that was actually a huge thing.
Speaker 1:For a lot of those routines I did a sort of 25 minute any drink called for by myself, which was really fun to do. But again, a lot of, a lot of balls and a lot of a lot of very involved, very involved, very much just being with the spectators, listening and responding. But the day that I turned water into wine, into an apparel spritz with the same person and they were losing their mind, that was a good day at work. That was a good day at work. Just didn't go anywhere near them, just one into the other, into the other and and she was standing there going. It's bubbly now like oh my gosh, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:There was some joyous moments but yeah, the, the, the change in pocket it very special because that kind of sums up the entire experience and also all of the amazing joyous things that it gave me great choice.
Speaker 4:And that brings us to your last item. What's in your last position?
Speaker 1:I'm going to put this on there because it um, yeah, it's, but I, I would. I thought about not doing it but in case I sounded sort of slightly up my own tuchus um, jewish word for bum I, I'm putting on a tricolor. I'm putting on tricolor, which is a trick that I brought out a month or two ago with the 1914 um, because it's my first trick, it's my, it's my. I'd released downloads and I'd released a really small thing with Preston Nyman called Six by Six, but this was my first big magic release and I was so proud of it. I just, oh, the day the box turned, I cried Because you know, 12-year-old me going to Davenport by myself spending my magic pocket money on things that came in boxes and little bags with instructions and going, oh, who's that, who's that buying, buying that thing and that thing.
Speaker 1:And then I had one with my name on it and I just anyone that's got it that has ever used, ever used it, thank you. If you sold it on a second hand magic site, good for you, get your money back. But like I was so proud of it, I was just so proud of it and yeah. So I think it would be silly not to put it on and, and and. Since then I know simon says has come out with penguin and stuff like that and it's all very. It will never stop being exciting. But that was my first and you always remember your first, jamie. You always do.
Speaker 4:I think it's a phenomenal trick. It's one of those ones as well where the instructions for that effect for Tricol'm talking up simon for him now um, but the instructions are where the real gold in in that is. There's such incredible thinking on there. It's so clever, it's so diverse, there's so many different things that you can do with it. It also takes away some of the danger in the effect potentially going wrong with previous methods that existed.
Speaker 1:It just cleans everything up perfectly yeah, that's what I was sort of aiming for. I was aiming for it's essentially non-electronic color match is what it is, uh, but that's the sort of headline to let you know what it is. But color matches it is on the bottom of my list of routines that I would perform with what the gimmicks can do. You can do chair tests and also drawing, duplications and free will plots and all sorts of stuff that, just like I said, I really try and put my money where my mouth is, all sorts of stuff that, just like I said, I really try and put my money where my mouth is.
Speaker 1:It is a utility product that allows you to create whatever you can imagine creating with it and, simple, get from A to B in the quickest way possible, in the safest way possible that is never going to let you down, that allows you to flourish, as what is I believe to be the most magical thing that you can present to someone, which is you. You are the magical thing. What you do is a byproduct of what you bring to the table. So your card tricks are nothing without you being the sparkly, shiny, magical bit. So, yeah, that's what I would take.
Speaker 4:Very good choice Again. Another really organic one. I think everything on your list, maybe other than the smash and stab, is all very, very organic yeah, which is great, but I would still do a smash and stab just with bits of envelopes.
Speaker 4:And yeah, I wouldn't do with a new fancy and that brings us on to your two curveball items, that being the book and the item the fact that you can only take one of each of them. Again, you're allowed honourable mentions. There's been very few people that haven't ended up mentioning two or three books.
Speaker 1:So it's entirely up to you All right, great, I am taking the Dunninger book. Am I taking the Dunninger book or am I taking Larry Becker's Stunners? Stunners is such a good book, isn't it? It's such a good book. Scissor G really good book as well. I think I'm going to take. No, I'm going to take the Dunninger book, the Dunninger Encyclopedia that's the one that I'm taking.
Speaker 1:It is meant trying to make sense of what's in that book is is, if you've never taken drugs before, don't worry about it. Just read the dungeon book. Because you look at one page and there's like if you just take hydrochloric acid and mix it with the pure soul of an infant and then put that in an inkwell, then all of a sudden you'll get the three of clubs and you're like I don't know what's going. Infant, and then put that in an inkwell. Then all of a sudden you'll get the three of clubs and you're like I don't know what's going on. And then you turn the page and all of a sudden there's an elephant in a harness and so it is mental, is mental, um. But what I love about it, what really excites me I'm obsessed with very old books is that there's not a lot going on. There's not. Uh, I know now we we really celebrate nine hours of tutorial and all of that sort of stuff. But this is sort of you get a bit of a picture and about two paragraphs on sort of is an idea and what I love is that it very blatantly goes never tried it, but should work. I sort of love that because it's it spurs so much creativity and thought.
Speaker 1:During the pandemic, I challenged myself to invent a new magic trick every day and put it on Instagram, and so they were very visual. They weren't mentalism at all. It was all very visual magic. But it was all just reading books like the Dungeon Book and old, old, old things and kind of going, okay, well, that's mental, but what about if I took that and that and did that and mixed it with that? Now, all of a sudden, you were, I was coming up with all these fun new methods to achieve things, and it was all because of books like that. But if I'm ever stuck for like I don't know, maybe there's something in that, I guarantee if I go to that book there'll be an answer in there somewhere.
Speaker 4:Great choice, um, also larry becker stunners, because as a mentalist, it is a bible and stunners is an older book that hasn't particularly aged in terms of like the methods are still really fresh and original original.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing, it's just. Larry Becker is just a phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal thinker.
Speaker 4:Very smart man. And that brings us onto your curve curve ball, which is your non-magic item that you use for magic.
Speaker 1:Well, Rubik's cube is the obvious choice, right? Has anyone picked Rubik's cube?
Speaker 4:I can't remember I think so well then I should take something different, shouldn't I um? It's definitely the hardest thing and I'm sure listeners listening, if them. Well, in fact, we've seen that people are making up their own lists and posting them on social media that's really fun. So I think everyone has said that this is the most difficult thing.
Speaker 1:It's a really difficult question because, okay, so logically, a rubik's cube fits that bill right. It's a non-magic item that is used for magic, but now it's such a magic item for magicians, isn't it? Um, but also it's really entertaining. I really enjoy. I solved a rubik's cube before I did any magic with a rubik's cube, so I I like just sitting and fiddling around with a. In fact, at Avenue Q we used to have a bunch of Rubik's Cubes. Rubik's Rubi Cube, rubik's Cubes is we? Yeah, we used to have a bunch of Rubik's Cubes back there and we would time each other and we'd we'd make up games with solving Rubik's Cub and stuff like that. So, um, yeah, then then look, then I think it should be a Rubik's cube, because that's what I have connection with and like I hosted the magic circle Easter show, I did a Rubik's cube match up at the beginning of the show. Like that I I'd be like I'd be making another object up if I didn't use that. So, rubik's Cube.
Speaker 4:I'll let you have that. I think it's a good choice. Thanks, I think, it's a really, really good choice. I think lots of people would be with you with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, smart choice, isn't it?
Speaker 4:I think a lot of people would take a Rubik's Cube. Great, what a superb list again, really interesting ones in there. A couple of curveballs, haribo. Maybe some people might not have heard of. Um sterling I've not heard of, so that'll be one for me to look into. Um, really really great list. So what is the future? Where can we find out about you? What's to come?
Speaker 1:so uh, I will be in chichester at the chichester festival theater this summer playing fagin in Oliver for Cameron McIntosh, and then we come into the West End at the Gielgud Theatre from December. Magically, there's some really fun stuff going on, some more tricks in the works, coming out with some very fun different companies. I love creating magic, so that will keep going. Magic, so that will keep going. Um and yeah, but otherwise, other than that, my life is oliver for the, for the foreseeable future. So what you can't see at the moment is my hair is now mentally big and I'm having to grow out my beard and I've just got my ears pierced. So, basically, what I'm trying to say is my mother's proud of me. So, uh, if you too want to be like my mother and be proud of me, then come see me in oliver and let me know that my life choices haven't all been for nothing. Okay, I still stand by the conceit.
Speaker 1:This podcast is absolutely flawed. I'm taking tricks. I get it. You listen to desert islander she thought it'd be a great idea, but that you're listening to that. I'm choosing this. I'm choosing what kind of fall am I? By sammy davis jr and then I get to listen to what kind of fall am I? It makes me happy because I'm alone on a desert island. Now here's what's happened. I'm now on a desert island and rather than having music to listen to, films to watch and or food or friends right, that should be a question who are you taking with you to show you the tricks to? Because you haven't put that in. So now, all of a sudden, I'm stuck on a desert island with a floppy wallet, some haribo, which I'm going to eat in day one because I'm going to be sugar craving. I've got some coins from a card trick. I've got a spike through my hand because my smashing stabs gone wrong, but I've got a rubix cube, so I'll be entertained.
Speaker 4:Nice, see, it works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right, stick with it.
Speaker 4:On that note, thank you very much. Don't forget, simon has also got a creator's page on Unlimited. So if you're an Unlimited member, go on there. His studio live lecture will be on there at the time of you listening.
Speaker 4:We've not actually although I'm going to break the concept of the podcast here at the point of recording we're actually going to record that tonight but Simon actually came down and showed myself and Harry the routines that he's going to be teaching, maybe like four or five weeks ago, and genuinely all of them phenomenal. So please do. And if Simon ever lectures in the future which hopefully he will do, and he'll go to local clubs, I highly recommend you checking out his items. As well as that, he's actually filmed for us an entire acting course which, again, me and harry were talking for weeks after we filmed it about some of the ideas and thoughts in it. Especially, simon actually touched on some of it in this podcast, um, that he spoke about. It's really, really good, so please check that out on there. Thank you, simon, for recording it for a second time, um, but it was very good I regret it and thank you guys for listening.
Speaker 4:We will speak to you again soon with another episode of Desert Island Tricks. Goodbye, goodbye now.
Speaker 3:Hi, peter Nardi here and I really hope you enjoyed that podcast. I just wanted to make a note that Alakazam have their own app. You can download it from the app store or the google play store. By downloading the app, it will make your shopping experience even slicker. At alakazam, you'll also get exclusive in-app offers and in-app live streams. So go download it now and we'll see you on the next podcast.