Desert Island Tricks
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Desert Island Tricks
Kenton Knepper
Get ready for an extraordinary journey into the world of mentalism with the legendary Kenton Knepper. Learn how Kenton's revolutionary concepts like 'Silent Influence' and 'Wonder Words' have shaped his illustrious career, and hear the fascinating story behind his essential desert island trick, Kolossal Killer. This episode promises to unravel the mysteries of mentalism, offering profound insights and practical techniques from one of the best in the business.
We then explore the power of symbols and the subconscious, drawing inspiration from Carl Jung's psychological discoveries. Kenton explains how incorporating symbols into performances can forge deeper connections with audiences, enhancing the impact of each trick. Discussing the indispensable role of a regular deck of cards in close-up magic, this segment is packed with valuable tips and historical context that will elevate your magic game.
The conversation continues with the playful and captivating world of sponge ball routines, and the commanding presence of Kenton's cane or sonic staff. You'll be spellbound by stories of floating spheres and the symbolic weight they carry. We wrap up with reflections on the soulful essence of magic, emphasizing emotional connections and meaningful performances. Plus, a thoughtful dive into the world of tarot, urging a deeper, respectful approach to this ancient art. Whether you're a seasoned magician or just a curious listener, this episode is a treasure trove of magical wisdom and enchanting stories.
Kenton's Desert Island List:
- Kollosal Killer
- Tarot Deck
- Thumb Tip
- Deck of cards
- Sponge Balls
- Kenton’s Cane
- Floating Sphere
- Asrah levitation
Book. The Tarot: A Key to the Wisdom of the Ages by Paul Foster Case
Item. Piano
A podcast about being an artist from a practical perspective. The series will...
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Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
Thank you for watching.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. Another guest is waiting to be marooned onto our little desert island. Now, today's guest is a truly prolific creator. I think you'd probably associate him more with mentalism when you see what he's done for mentalism. And I was actually just talking to him and saying one of the first tricks I did very, very often in my first ever job when I was 16 was one of this man's effects. It's probably one of the cleverest tricks that I think still exists and no doubt coined a very famous phrase which is off by one. You'll instantly know what that trick is just by me saying that. So we're really, really fortunate enough to have Kenton here with us today. I've said his first name now Kenton here today, and I'm sure that this episode is going to uncover some incredible magic and some incredible thoughts. So, with that being said, of course, today's guest is the wonderful Mr Kenton Knepper. How are you, kenton?
Speaker 3:Wonderful, great to be with you, Jamie.
Speaker 2:I'm very excited to have you here. My question for you is did you find it easy or difficult?
Speaker 3:Oh well, I'll walk you through the process in my mind, because I found it much more challenging than I originally expected and I guess it tells me a lot about my journey and where I've gone. And it's true, the years In the old days, like when I was 14, I would have been able to tell you like right away. So part of what happened is I started thinking about it. I think, well, you know, what do I actually do? And my first thought was well, look, I train people around the world in silent influence. I can do a lot saying nothing and with nothing.
Speaker 3:So silent influence would be, you know, a big part of what I do. And then I thought, well, I also did wonder words, which I'm known for, and you know, wonder words is how to use words to influence people and get them to imagine things in their heads that hasn't even happened. So I went okay, well, those aren't props or anything, those aren't really tricks, those are just like kind of concepts that I rely on. So I thought, ok, what else? And then I started thinking about things and I thought, well, yeah, I also known for doing equivocate making people, you know, choose certain things in certain manners, and also the no equivocate stuff. You know which is so basically mentally forcing people to choose anything, so it doesn't matter what's around, so OK.
Speaker 2:So if it's your first time to this podcast, then we're about to whisk Kenton away to his own desert island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks, one book and one non-magic item that he uses for magic, all of the particulars like who's there, how big is it, are there huts all that good stuff is all in Kenton's own imagination. We do not mind. It's basically the list of eight tricks that he could not live without and, with that being said, we're going to whisk him away to his island now and find out what he put in position number one. So what did you put in your first position, kenton? So first position be colossal killer.
Speaker 3:You know absolutely. You know basically, I put a card ahead of time in my wallet. It's a prediction I have if I don't have a deck of cards. I just have people imagine a deck of cards and I imagine them either choosing one that stands out to them or throwing it. Usually what I like to to do is have people mix up the invisible deck of cards, separate them in reds and blacks and throw either reds or blacks away. And then I go, oh, you threw away the reds. I can't believe you did that which they don't have any cards. So when they do that, they kind of freak out.
Speaker 3:And then you know then it's like, okay, do that with clubs or spades and keep one. Good, everybody keeps the spades, that's good. And you know, phantom in front of you, don't pick the ace of spades, everybody does, that's obvious. You dropped it anyway, that's good. Okay, just reach in the middle and grab out a card. And you know they do. And then I look at them and go, oh, oh, don't, let me see it. I think you. Then I don't have that much money, and then I can reach in my wallet and take out the card and it surprises them and you know, and the fun part of that is I'll take out, you know, try to miss, so that I surprise them again. So if I say seven of spades, knowing it's going to be a six, so when they say seven of spades again, I'll probably say six of spades. They'll say nah, it's seven of spades. And I'll say, oh well, I'm sorry, and I'll pull the six of spades out of my, out of my wallet, and go. I was close though. And they'll go, yeah, yeah, that was really close. And I go, it's still off by one is on the back. So it surprises them again. That really kind of solidifies. No, I already knew I was just screwing with you the whole time and that's really really fun. But it's kind of a double effect. You know a double slam for people. And you know, they know I mean I don't have a very big wallet so I can't have like half a deck or a full deck or whatever in there. So to me that's just.
Speaker 3:You know, that's one of those things that if you're going to do a trick, it looks like a really powerful card trick, except you don't have any cards. You know you have a card that you're betting on your wallet and that's. That's like one of those things like, oh, you do magically see something, and that's that's the way I'd love to start, because then it's like, wow, you did something really powerful and you really didn't have anything. We were imagining cards and we were doing this, and so I really love that because it's a powerful moment that seems to be about with nothing. It's all in their minds.
Speaker 3:It's not entirely true, of course, because you know you have to have a card in your wallet and you have to have the wallet with you, but in your mind it seems that way, and and I love that because then people start getting like, oh, what you do is more than just the obvious trick, because you didn't really have anything, uh, which for me is a really good setup. Um, and especially, you know, if I were on an island, that would be a really good setup. That catchphrase off by one has become such a thing that there are television shows and stuff that have it as a running gag, and there are magicians who are actors and actors who love magic and they've sneaked it into their acting or they've sneaked it into the script writing. And I find it hilarious because I'll be watching some show and I'll go oops off by one.
Speaker 3:And it's just like oh my God, it's a sitcom you know, it's wonderful to see how that's just become a thing all the way across the board. I've had some relationships where people would get upset because things would happen to be off by one around me a lot and so they were like stop it, it's not funny anymore, it can't really help that. But yeah, off by one is like a really a really really wonderful magical phrase and it's it's really been fun to watch it catch on and you know, on an island full of people I'm sure it would catch on really quickly.
Speaker 2:I think it would. It would be quite the running gag right, I think it would. Yeah, it's a great first choice. I think it's a really heavy hitter to go in your first position, so it's interesting to see where this is going to go. So let's move on to your second. So what did you put into your second position?
Speaker 3:It's really a tough debate in a lot of ways, but it's not overall. So what I put in my second position was the tarot deck, just because the tarot deck is something that is really important to me, that I can use for self-study and keep myself engaged and entertained and working on all sorts of inner work for myself. As well, as you know, do card effects with tarot, so I like that. I can also do readings with it, so that's good. You know, I'm very fond of shifting consciousness and helping people and whatever, and so I can do that with a tarot deck really easily. So for me, that's that's got to be there because it covers my own personal work.
Speaker 3:If I had to have, you know like some people call that a book, so if that counted as a book, that would be a book, um, but to me it's. It's. That would be something I have to have, otherwise I could get like very stir crazy, but with that I could be at that with a tarot deck, studying that for lifetimes and still not exhaust everything in them. So I I know of it as being more than just a uh, a way of doing divination yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 2:It's one that we've we've actually had, um.
Speaker 3:I think that luca volpe had in his, and I do believe terry tyson had it on his as well luke is a student of mine and and one of the reasons we kind of hit it off way, way, way back originally was we were talking about readings.
Speaker 3:And I said look, I don't want to talk to you about readings, on a trick level, I'm just not interested. And he goes no, no, no, I want to talk to you about readings. Oh great, so we were able to, you know, say let's help branch that out. Some more and more people get it that it's not cold reading, that there's symbolism involved and you can use that symbolism in ways that are really entertaining and helpful. And he was working. You know, he later started doing cruise ships a lot and then he would say you know, the minute you step out of the cabin on a cruise ship, somebody goes show me something. And he just, he just didn't want to be on performing all the time and he just felt that was superficial, which I totally understand. So he started doing readings and that made that journey always much more interesting, because he helps people, he would shift things for them. And then, you know, neither one of us tells people's futures. That's not what readings are for for us. And so, yeah, tarot is just I mean, it's endless.
Speaker 3:You know I was talking to some students because we've just done this big tarot intensive, or started it. We have three more sessions to go, and one of the things that came up was people said well, how else does tarot, like, inform your life? And I said you know, off by one probably came unconsciously by working with tarot. Because there is a certain set of systems that go on top of tarot and if you know enough, you go oh, that's exactly it, except it's off by one. So that is possible, that nobody said that, but it's possible that observations sinked in and came out as the answer for the trick. But also because when I look at all these things in tarot, I see, oh well, this is this personality and this is me and this is an aspect of myself and I need to work on that aspect. I'm really not so great at that part of it. I'm really great at this part of that, you know. So it just goes on and on.
Speaker 3:When it comes to tarot, you know, I just can't imagine and again, I could do some card tricks with it. I probably wouldn't do many card tricks with the tarot decks. I don't feel that's really what it's about. But you know, as I mentioned to you, like one of the things I'd love to do with tarot is, you know, is somebody says I'm really struggling and this is true, not just with tarot. You could do this with a divination deck too, or most message decks or whatever.
Speaker 3:Um, somebody say you know, I'm really struggling with keeping my focus, I'm really struggling with like, making things happen. I don't know I've got to really focus and get my attention going. I need to start something. I need to, you know, somehow get more power coming through me to do something. And I just don't. I need an answer, I need some sign or something. And people say those things If you're a certain kind of magician, they're so enthralled with you they ask you those kinds of things.
Speaker 3:So when somebody does that, I'll say well, here, look, since we have this deck here, just touch one of the cards, take it out and see if it tells you anything. And you know, knowing that, by doing that, they're going to take out the magician card and they're going to go whoa, look at there, there you are claiming your power, pulling it down you know, from the inside, from my hair source, pulling it into order on the table, and I can talk them through all that stuff. And it's really empowering for people and I just I just find that so magical and it's not false. I think that's one of the things that people really misunderstand. Symbols aren't fakes. Symbols are representative of things in consciousness and so I apply them accordingly and, knowing that you can shift people on some greater consciousness level by doing a simple effect, it doesn't feel like a trick. You know that. That feels like a real event.
Speaker 3:It's what I call anti-tada, right, you know, magicians are very used to doing and you pick the magician ta-da, you know. And anti-tada is kind of like yeah, I picked a magician, that's interesting, let's talk about that. There's no tada there, right, it's really about okay, well, wow, that's isn't that fortunate. What does that really mean? And now we get into a discussion. I love things where we get into deeper stuff and I think, the more you work with symbols, deeply you know that's what Carl Jung, the father of you know, modern therapy and psychology in a lot of ways, found out for himself, on accident, so to speak.
Speaker 3:You know not that he would say accident, but it was a funny synchronicity, you know he started having these frames, weird symbols and stuff that he had no understanding of and no idea about and then had to go to I mean, back then you had to go to, like the old libraries and search and go to other countries and find a book, you know, whatever. And he dug up stuff and realized he was dreaming alchemical symbols and went well, what in the world is that about? And then you know that became the foundation of most psychology. As we think about it now, you know how utterly fascinating. And if you understand that symbols are the language of the subconscious, then suddenly communicating by symbols seems kind of vital.
Speaker 3:And I've been talking about this for more decades than I can think about. But that's the thing. If you want to connect deeply with people, you know you can distract the conscious mind with amusement. But while you're doing that, throw in some of the deeper communication, throw in symbols. Right, magic tricks. A lot of tricks, especially a lot of props, were originally symbols and that idea has been discarded. But a lot of props really are archetypal symbols and those symbols were meant to speak to people on deeper levels. So I think the more we reclaim that, the more we experience that kind of wonder in performances and in everyday life and it's just a fascinating thing to watch unfold.
Speaker 2:Yep, I agree. It's a great, great choice, and it does lead us on to your third position. So what did you put in your third place?
Speaker 3:Well, a very generic, simple thing, which would be a TTIP, just because then I can use that for all sorts of things, things that people know and things that people don't know. So that would be it. It also would allow me then to create a special thing based on that that allows me to do a lot of other work of mine that I can't talk about, but it allows me to do a lot of other work. So, yes, that would be a have to, because you know how cool is it to be able to take like a leaf off a tree, rip it to shreds, right, and then put it back together and have your hands be empty. I mean, that's, that's pretty cool stuff, you know. And same with you know, take a bunch of little pebbles and squish it in your hand really hard until it turns into one big solid rock. You know, there's lots of cool stuff that you could do with that, and I think people, people don't think about it. We still have very limited thinking about that particular gimmick and I I Think there's so much more that can. I know there's so much more that can be done. So that just gives me a never-ending thing.
Speaker 3:I wrote in a book of mine this whole story about well, imagining you're on a desert island and blah, blah, blah. Well, I could still tell that story on a desert island, you know, and then have them tell me what they felt and whatever, and still have my empty hand go like this out of thin air and have sand come pouring out, right. So there's lots of, there's just lots and lots and lots of things. There's a reason why Milford Christopher, back in the day, wrote you know 101 things to do with that prop. It's like, yeah, and that's for starters, you know, because there's just so much, so much more. So, in fact, I used to, and I still often do, but I used to always open lectures for magicians with a special deck that they consider beneath them and a T-tip, and I would fool them badly and make them think it was NLP and all that stuff, and then I'd tell them what it was. So I have a very big fondness for that, because it's just endless what you can do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great choice. It's one that I think I think it's probably in our top five overall, because so many people have mentioned it and the funny thing is everyone who's mentioned it so far has spoken about it in a different way. Mark Spellman spoke about he had this lovely story about him being on a date and he took the flower petals, put them into his hand and then when he pulled it back out, they were back together. Very much like what you just said about the leaf um. But then if you look at other people, uh, you've got obviously the salt portrait, so you can have salt transfer on an island. That'd be great with sand. It's such a versatile prop and I think it's going to be for forever. It's going to be around for forever.
Speaker 3:I reckon yeah well, and it was. You know, you've got to think back. It was originally made out of wood. It was hand-carved out of wood, you know. So I mean, it had been around a long, long time in lots of cultures and for reasons. Um, you know, and don't forget that that's also something al baker used that as a way to do a billet switch, to do mind rooting. So I mean, it's just, there's so many things.
Speaker 2:It's really really kind of crazy silly, you know yeah, it's great, it's an excellent choice and it leads us perfectly into your halfway point. So what did you put in your fourth position?
Speaker 3:Well, so the fourth position is the number of the physical and the mundane, and to me that would be a card deck, a regular deck of cards. Most people in magic and mentalism are no longer aware of this, but I was a student of a lot of close-up guys. I was a student of John Mendoza's for many years, so I was on my way to becoming a card tech close-up kind of guy and hung out with lots of those people and had written a book that Mendoza actually wrote for me of my work in close-up that burned up at a printer. If it were not for that, I probably would be a close-up guy, but that book burned up and I just kept going and then found out people were.
Speaker 3:One of the things I do with the deck of cards is, you know, hey, you're a shuffler deck. Take a card out and don't let me see it. Think about it Now. Look, we just met, but I like to learn out. You know, and you're the kind of person who's you know it's a little confusing because you're a very clear thinker, which is great, when usually a thinker would be like a black card, but you have a warmth, a genuine warmth, and a softness to you. So that would be a heart. So it's a little tricky. I'm going to say it's between a club and a heart, but don't tell me, don't give me hints. But that's the kind of person you are, and playing cards represent a lot of what you know, what people are, so you're also really like, you know, pretty even keeled, but you're not one of these people. People like fives, for example, they're right in the middle. But the problem with fives is they get really full of themselves and get themselves in a mess of thinking everything's external and you have more balance than that. So the harmonious number would be a six. So it's like a six of clubs or hearts. I'm gonna say a heart because you have a round of face. What card did you take? And it'll be the six of hearts. And they're like, holy crap, that's not just a card trick, right? That's connecting with somebody.
Speaker 3:So that's actually part of why I got the rap of being a mentalist. That and being able to do things with nothing. You know, because by doing things with nothing all the time, people just said, well, that's mentalism. To me it's like no, it's magic. But okay, fine, you know. So, yeah, I mean a deck of cards.
Speaker 3:There's so many things I can do with a deck of cards and you know I have my own version of Torn and Restored card. That definitely is important to me. I have a funny way of doing cutting the aces. I have stuff I learned from Mendoza. I have. I guess you'd have to include a stranger card in that.
Speaker 3:But I have a whole you know routine I've done forever. That's the deck is all backs and all faces and are all the same card and there are change colors and you know it just goes on. It's like every trick you could conceive of. The deck shrinks, the deck goes back to you know all that stuff in one one routine. You know it's called conscious overwhelm because the whole point is just for people to finally go okay, well and yeah, so you can do anything with cards, what else you got, and I'm done. I don't have to do anything else. So, yeah, there's so many things. And again, you know playing cards relate to tarot too. So those numbers and the suits and all that all relate to the minor arcana and tarot. So I can go deeper with the deck of cards too. Could I use a tarot deck in a lot of those cases and not use playing cards, yeah, but it's a lot easier to make poker sized cards disappear than a large tarot deck. So I can do it, but you know, sometimes I'd want to make it easier.
Speaker 2:So uh, yeah, that's why. So regular listeners to desert island tricks will know what I'm about to do. Okay, I'm about to be devil's advocate so with this deck of cards. You're only allowed to do one more trick for the rest of your life. You're only allowed to do one trick with this deck of cards. What would the one trick be?
Speaker 3:you know that's, that's a. That's actually a really tough choice for me, because there are a couple things I've always done that are are just people freak, um, and I'd rather, you know, um, I do a bastardized version of kenton's version of cards across. That's kind of paul harris smashed with vector smashed with whatever. Um, that's one of those big ones. But I think probably what I'd have to do is is is have somebody think of a card, take a card out, throw it in my pocket and then have them name the card and then I'll go through the deck and show it's not even in there and that would be the card I took out. That's been one of the opening things I've done in my life for I don't know, 40, some years, 50 years, so I guess I've never published that one, but that's something that's been the opener for a really long time. Wow.
Speaker 2:So I guess that would be it. Yeah, great choice. So is it one that we are going to have published in the future?
Speaker 3:Now that I'm thinking about it again. Yeah, eventually, you know, eventually I probably, you know, eventually I probably really should do a card book. It's something I've not really done. I kind of did cards of influence but, um, it didn't have all the techie stuff in it, uh, and things, although jay sankey and alan ackerman, some guys really like some of it, but it's a yeah, card book could probably be a good idea so we're taking that as an exclusive everybody.
Speaker 2:Uh, kenton's new card book coming out very soon in the future very, very later so that brings us over your halfway point. So we're at number five. What's in your fifth position?
Speaker 3:yeah. So at that point I'm going to do something else that's really mundane, that most people will no longer touch with a 10-foot pole, which is awesome for me, and that is Spongeballs. I would put Spongeballs Because I really made a living in close-up with one Deca card, one Stranger card and Spongeballs, or like ever you know, and the rest is all the other stuff I know. But I mean that's just yeah. And again, if I'm on an island, it's really cool Because I can go up to a tree and pluck off little fruit you know, off the tree. I mean there's so many cool things symbolically that I can do with that. And my personal sponge wall routine, which has been on video for a lot of years, has weird things in it that you know is different than everybody else. So it's great because your hands are always empty and stuff keeps happening and people hold on to a sponge while it disappears in their own hand and you know, then they give it back to you invisibly and it shows up.
Speaker 3:I mean you know there's all these weird things and it's just really interactive and fun and interesting. And then you know, at the end they all kind of disappear. I can put them back on the tree, you know so yeah.
Speaker 2:I love the idea of you plucking a fruit off and then it turning into a sponge ball. I think that's wicked. That would be great.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, no, it's really beautiful. And you know, there are times where I wanted to do that and a tree didn't really have fruit. So, okay, well, it'll work and people totally buy it. I mean, they just and subconsciously we were talking about subconscious communication Subconsciously, subconscious goes yeah, okay, I get it Free green. You know, round sphere, got it. Okay, know what that means? Right? So now the fact that it doubles and then multiplies symbolically is exactly right, I mean. So it just works on lots of levels. Bob Neal once said to me he goes, kenton, I like your sponge ball routine. You know why he said? Why he said because sponge balls are nonsense and the way you play it is like these things are so obtuse, it's like it's all nonsense. He goes, it's great, and I think there's some truth to that, that it is like, of course, this is weird. You know how weird is this. You know we'll hold on to it. I don't know what the heck this is, you know, you know.
Speaker 3:And then it's like I you know, you hold that one, I'll hold this one. I don't know what, wait, where'd it go? You know, ok, let me give, give me yours, let me see that thing. You know it's like oh, you got two of them. Ok, you hold it. I don't know, I don't know, let's make stuff up. You know, here, look, I've got an invisible one gone. Aren't you impressed? Because now they have it. It's that kind of interaction that's like. That is mainly pure entertainment, but it's about interaction between people you have to have in the mysteries. They used to say they give you all this heavy stuff you have to work on really hard forever, but in the midst of that they remind you that you know when you're looking at the devil, when you're looking at horrible, nasty things in life, um, you have to laugh and, and so sponge balls give that crazy, silly, funny laughter. You know, in the midst of everything, so it fits.
Speaker 2:It fits an important role yeah, that's a really nice way of looking at. I like the idea of uh, it's the the silly break in someone's day.
Speaker 3:I could imagine that just that silly, chaotic, random moment in someone's day, just at the right time, will really impact their well-being and and just cheer them up basically yeah, I mean I used to have kids come into one of the uh celebrity restaurants that I worked in, um, and they would come in and parents would tell me this and eventually I got to see some of it people, kids would come in and say they built altars. It's like what do you mean? You built an altar, you know? Good for you, I guess, I don't know. And they and the parent would explain that they built these shrines or these little altars based around the ball. Right, I let them take a home a ball and they have this thing and it was like a magical thing and it's in their closet and it's like, you know, it's a shrine and it's like holy crap, you know, I mean off of a sponge ball routine, that's pretty darn good. Holy crap, you know, I mean off of a sponge ball routine, that's pretty darn good, you know. But one of the things I would do with with kids would come in and if they seem down or a little whatever distractor, parents were talking heavy stuff, you know, and the kids, like you know, I go, well, what's that? And they go what. You go on your sleeve, what do you always keep that sticking out of your sleeve like that They'd go what? And you go on your sleeve what are you? You always keep that sticking out of your sleeve like that. And they'd look at their sleeve and go what? And come that thing. And I'd reach in their sleeve and pull out the sponge ball and they'd go whoa, I didn't know that was in there, you know. And boom right, I mean it was an instant connection and it worked great.
Speaker 3:I had one night it didn't work great. I had one night where I got called into the office by the owner who said what are you doing out there? I said what do you mean? I'm just doing my usual stuff, same stuff I've done for the last 15 years. He goes yeah, no, you're doing something else, that's what they're saying. I said okay, what are they saying? You're doing something else, that's what they're saying. I said okay, what are they saying? And they said well, this doesn't really seem like you. But a customer complained that you worship the devil and that you were trying to convert their kid to Satanism. And I went why is that? And they said you went up to this child, you know he. Well, it wasn't you know whatever. He's 10 or something, you know. You went up to this kid and you pulled this red ball that represents Satan out of his pocket. I went oh my God, look, I was doing this, you know. And they went oh god, look I, I was doing this, you know. And they went.
Speaker 2:oh okay, never just stay away from them that's the first time I've ever heard anyone refer to sponge balls as the devil. If you also have performed sponge balls at home and you have been referred to as the devil, please comment below. Let us know. I want to see how many people this is happening to yeah, we might start a start a spongebob call.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, joking, just joking hello guys.
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Speaker 2:check out now alakazamcouk cheers with that being said, let's see. Uh, what trick is in the sixth position?
Speaker 3:well. So after that I would have to um, I would have to think of things that would make a big statement to people, you know, without being a real hassle, because, again, if you're on a desert island you probably don't want to have a lot of things to be hassled with. The next position would be Kenton's cane or the sonic staff version, which is either a big, tall staff or a big, tall musical instrument that I command and then dances around and floats around and spins and adheres to my hands and, you know, does my bidding or whatever. But I can do it in full light. I can do it with people really close. It's not like it doesn't have any of the restrictions that most people doing that kind of a trick have.
Speaker 3:And what's what's great? It's great for lots of reasons. One, the minute somebody has a big staff and sets it down and looks at you, you have there is an air of authority about that. It just is right and that's an archetype and that's symbolic, and so you know somebody doing that, you go, okay, you have my attention. Symbolically, you know, a pole set down like that in seriousness is a connection of above to below. So I'm just talking on a symbolic level. So this is saying I'm drawing in higher authority, you know I'm connected to something greater. This is saying I'm drawing in higher authority, you know I'm connected to something greater, so that holding the staff with seriousness that way definitely gets people's attention.
Speaker 3:So then, if I do that and I make some motions and it starts dancing around, well, hey, people are like whoa, what is going on. And it stops, you know, and you look at them and then you command it and it does more and then it floats up into the air, you know, and it sticks to your hands. I mean, it's a giant trick that commands a lot of attention and a lot of power symbolically. And you know, you can play it goofy if that's your thing. I don't, I never have. It has moments that are maybe a little goofy, but it's mostly really serious, strong, really more strong than anything. But it's one of those things that when people see it and experience it, they go, wow, what is going on? And that's like, okay, this guy has control, he has control of some secret force somehow. You know, you can tell and, yeah, I want people if I'm on an island.
Speaker 3:I want people to think that I want them to know. I have special, you know, access to other information you know. So that would be a definite thing. Besides, that it's a pole, it's going to be useful. Or if I bring it as a musical instrument, that's going to be useful, you know. But that's a trick. That is is really strong. It fits my personality, you know, pretty much instantly. People then would call me a wizard the minute they see that. So it takes my usual persona and makes it clear really quickly. You know, fills a lot of a lot of roles that way. So, yeah, and the fact I can do it, you know, at night around a fire, or do it at in the middle of the hot sun, you know, and not care and be like, have people you know really close and stuff and all around, yeah, why not? That's a, it's a cool thing yeah, I think that sounds great.
Speaker 2:We've had one other person mention um a floating cane effect, uh, which was chris harding, and he said it's the single trick that he's practiced most in his life, but he's never actually performed it for anyone. So maybe he and I know he's an avid listener of this so, chris, I know that you're listening Maybe this is his opportunity to go out there and finally perform.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, go do it. You know, and I will say to that you know, there's a um, I would stick with my cane, but I will say that my, I did. I was known so much for that that I was at a movie premiere and doing magic in this theater before the movie showed and I looked up the aisle and there was this very fine looking lady, obviously of wealth, who had this cane with a diamond encrusted handle on it and I said, may I borrow that for a moment? She's like, oh, certainly. And I stuck it to my hands and I took my hand off and I had to stick to my other hand just Molini stuff, you know, and and she and then gave it back to her and she was like, ah, you know, and everybody loved it and I thought, you know, this is great, I can do stuff with nothing, because you know, you know that works. So it definitely can be very, very powerful if you play it well.
Speaker 3:And you've got to remember Max Fellini was very fond of you know, loving to talk about how he did everything with nothing to you know. And you know said to the queen when she asked, where are your props? He said, lady, I am the props. I am the show. I think I am the show, you know, and that's that's the thing. It's like that tells the audience wow, you know, you just got something from somebody. It's like that tells the audience wow, you know, you just got something from somebody and you have, you have special powers. Obviously. I mean, come on, it's like there was nothing else.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, yeah, go out there and do it. It's, it's, it's a real stunner, it's a real stunner.
Speaker 2:Great, great choice. And that brings us to the tail end of your eight. So we're on number seven now. So what's in your seventh position? So?
Speaker 3:my seventh position would be my sphere, my floating sphere, and, again for some similar reasons as my cane, the sphere is. The sphere is the way I do the sphere. I can do it anywhere and, again, I can do it in full light and I can do it with people all around and I don't have to set it up. I can waltz in wherever and go, do it, and it's not contact juggling and it doesn't have all like a big honking, something in it that shows up if you turn the wrong way or you know whatever. So so it allows me to to float this metal ball it's really metal around, you know, and and again, like the cane show I'm, I'm accessing my attention and my energy and my special powers to make this happen. So it'll float around my hands and move my hands all the way around it, you know, and it will stay in place and then I can make it shoot out, you know, follow it, and it will stay floating around my arms and my hands and up above and out in the audience with me and you know all that kind of stuff and it's and it's very strong, it's very beautiful, it's. You know, the cane is strong, powerful, the sphere is strong but beautiful, and part of that is because of the prop. You know, if you have a silver ball and you don't treat it like a silver ball, you treat it like it's something else, symbolically, the subconscious immediately goes oh, you're talking to me, you're talking about the moon, and I know what the moon represents. I'm, you know. In fact, it represents all among many things, subconscious. So the subconscious is drawn to that, it loves it because it recognizes a symbol of itself when it sees it. That's something that most magicians don't think about. But again, why? I'm very big on people studying, when I have students that they learn all about symbolism and things, because it matters. But when you have this beautiful, glowing silver spoon, if you're in the, let's say, you don't have it with you and you're out, supposedly you don't have it with you you're out among the trees or something, and there's a bright moon out and you go. Isn't that just beautiful? It's so enchanting. You know it's just so. There's something about that moonlight, right it just. You know it's just so. There's something about that moonlight right With it. Just, you know, if we can capture that moonlight, bring it down among us and whatever, and then I would reach up and have this big silver sphere reflecting the moonlight. Boom. You know, I've got people's attention and they're feeling something.
Speaker 3:So now that it floats around and it does all this stuff, it's very, very mystical and very magical and feels again like wow, this isn't just a trick, you have some extra powers, abilities, energies. You know something that we don't know. You know something that we don't know. So to me that's very important and I've been known to do that in special situations with students, in initiations and things. It's that powerful. It's that that powerful. You know, in a couple of cases it came out of the swimming pool, from below, out of the water, and rose to the surface and from there went up and I had to follow it up out of the pool and with everybody all around. So it's just very, very strong, powerful imagery. That's beautiful but also very mysterious and it just.
Speaker 3:I still remember one of the first times I saw a floating sphere and just went oh my God, you know, that's it. It's the thing. And you know, I still remember having my first zombie as a, as a maybe I was in my teens, maybe early teen, and you know, dropping and watching it get dented and go, you know, but then getting getting right on it and working on it. You know, my sphere doesn't have that, those problems, and what I really like about it is being because it's really big and it's really metal. You know, I can, I can have somebody hold out their hands while it's floating and then pick it up and set it on their hand and they'll go, oh, it's like, oh, they're surprised, they thought it was like a balloon or something. So when it's really a metal ball and it hits their hands, they're like whoa, and you go yep, and then I pick it back up and it starts to float again.
Speaker 3:It's like a great, a great moment of oh you, you are up to things that we just don't know. You know, and to me that's that's what it should be. You know, magic should constantly and mentalism should be constantly. That I mean to me. I know there are a lot of guys that go no, no, it shouldn't be telling people you're all tricked or you're all fools in life and you're. I just think we got a lot enough of that in the world. You know, I don't think that's what magic of mentalism is for.
Speaker 3:I think magic of mentalism is for us to stretch our minds and imagine that there's more to life than what meets the eye, and so, for me, things like this are really important, because it reminds us oh yeah, wait, I know somewhere inside of me that people couldn't get into mystery schools and certain things. Right, they couldn't get into the hierarchies, you know, and try to overthrow all the leaders was to tell them some secrets about what they were up to. You know, let them know, you know. Well, we still have that problem this day. What is the government really up to those? I bet this, I bet that. And they come up with all these crazy things, you know.
Speaker 3:But then somebody from on high comes out and says no, no, no, here's what we're doing. And you go okay, right, we can debate that, but at least we're not crazy about you, you know. So these people in power said you know what we're going to. We're going to go out there and give them a little play, a symbolic play of what we're doing. You know, give them a symbolic play about the gods and goddesses, give them a symbolic play about that. And they did, and they used magic to do that. Right, and the masses would see that as. Oh, I see there's a rising of this. And then, you know, ra is going to come down and do that, and then we have this Okay, great, so you're talking to the gods for us and we're okay, and you've shown us your powers. Okay, fine, right Now, the people who were involved nowadays we like to go, oh, they were screwing with the masses.
Speaker 3:No, they weren't. Their point of view was days, we like to go, oh, they were screwing with the masses. No, they weren't. Their point of view was how do we communicate this stuff that they can't understand? How do we communicate to them some of this information in a way they can handle it? And that was to present little, what we now call plays or dramas of things, but in a way they could comprehend it. You know, we didn't have terms like subconscious and stuff. You know, that's relatively new. They had to represent that with symbols and things. So the moon was a symbol for that. That's where performance, magic and mentalism came from, you know.
Speaker 3:So this idea, this modern idea of no, no, magic mentalism represents cynicism and hatred for anything other than science, is not accurate. It's anything but accurate. It's it's it's it's. It's the equivalent of me saying you know, I really hate music. I mean, I really hate music, but I can't help but make records. I sit down and play piano, make records because, but you know, and people pay me for it, but I hate it. No, you wouldn't do that, that would be nuts, you know.
Speaker 3:But somehow we have that in certain factions of magic, of mentalism is like I'm against all that spooky, weird, whatever crap that you guys believe, but let's use their symbols. I don't, I don't understand that. Mind you, I have very good friends of mine who are very much on that side of the coin and I'm okay with that. I love them too. But for me that's not what magical mentalism is about and as an art, I really think that's a disservice to dumb it down that much. I think it more. It's. It's much more beautiful, it can be much more beautiful than that, and uh, so the sphere has to be in there because it represents all of that in in a simple little sphere and I would love to have watched that lady with the sponge balls face, when you start making a sphere, float in front of her.
Speaker 2:If the sponge ball was too much, the sphere. Well, we're gone from colossal killer to a tarot deck, to a tt, to sponge balls. We've got card in pocket, we've got your kenton's cane and we have your sphere. So, goodness knows, if we've got all of those, what's going to be in your last spot? So what is in your eighth position?
Speaker 3:well, you will never guess, and I mean I seriously you will never guess, and I think most of my friends would never guess. But you know, again, to reiterate, knowing that I can use silent influence and wonder words and and all the kind of mental forcing I do and all the kind of readings I do with nothing, um, and and I can, I can do that in lots of ways and and just make anything seem important. And you know it's like I I I clearly don't use any props. Well, but I grew up on a two and a half hour illusion show and then I have my own big illusion show and people don't know that. Don't think about it. I had a really wicked version of the cremation that I did. That got me in some trouble.
Speaker 3:But what my last pick would be is if, literally, if I were on a desert island, I would want to do the Azra, and I have a really good reason for that. Look, if you've got a cane, a staff, that you draw on power down from some higher source, then you can invoke it and make it move all around, and then you can imbue it into a planet that you draw in power down from some higher source and you can then invoke it and make it move all around, and then you can imbue it into a planet that you move around. What's next, you know, you bring it to humanity right, and then you raise humanity up to such a high level they're no longer in body. Well, how, wow, how perfect is that it's. You know, it says so much about deeper things, symbolically. But there's another reason, and that is Orson Welles, and there aren't too many people that know this. But Orson Welles, you know, was, of course you probably do know he was very much into not only movie making and acting, but he was very much into magic, and so he took magic very seriously. I saw him on a television special once too. I swear it was 10, maybe 15 minutes of a prediction in a block of ice holding us all spellbound, and the method was the TT. So you know, it was freaking brilliant in what he could get by with.
Speaker 3:But the Azra, orson would stage the Azra. You know, he had these famous Hollywood parties, or infamous depending, and he once staged the Azra outside, no curtains, no, nada. It's, here's a woman here, we are outside in nature. Okay, I'm covering her up, I'm covering her up, I'm doing the thing. Now she floats in air under this cover and she goes higher and higher and gets way high above his head and he has to really reach and then he takes the cover away and there's, she's gone and there's nothing but trees and that's it Gone and it's just like okay, fine, you win. You know, you're the magician now. You're the real wizard, got it.
Speaker 3:If you ever get to watch that footage and do what it takes to watch it, watching Orson, do the Azra outside without any cover other than the cover over the woman. But I mean, there isn't, there aren't flies, there aren't you know places to go up there's sky. It's just really really stunning and beautiful. So I would have to say I would have to say that's that would be the ultimate. Last thing would be the Azra outside.
Speaker 2:There's that thought experiment or the idea that if you could go back in time or if you could have a dinner party now, rather, and you could invite people back and have a dinner party, who would you have? But I always think of it as if I could go back in time and go to the first time a trick was performed. What would those tricks be? So for me, I would love to be watching Harbin do the zigzag lady for the first time. I think that would be phenomenal. The first time, seeing Banachek do PK touches being in that room, I bet was incredible. Touches being in that room, I bet, was incredible. Um, but the azra. So seeing leroy in in the theater the first time that that happened, the first time that lady vanished, I I guarantee the the feeling in that room the air would have gone cold from people just not understanding what was happening.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like beyond comprehension, you know, it's just really. You know, and yes, I agree with you, that moment, the first time people saw that would be. You know, I can quickly that brought up two quick associations to mind. One was I saw Harry Blackstone Jr many times and one night he was. They were in the middle of doing the Azra and Gay was on the couch and they covered her up and stuff and she started to rise a little bit and they went to move the couch and and one of the casters totally broke off and the whole thing tipped really severely and he looked around and they couldn't get it off stage and stuff. So he just made a motion. And this is where harry was brilliant. He may not like to have rehearsed, but he knew how to handle stuff, no matter what happened. So it was like, OK, I'm stuck. He walks forward to the curtains and makes a motion and the curtains close very majestically with nothing happening and he says my father always said Take care of your props and they will take care of you. And by God they did. It was brilliant.
Speaker 3:You know, I had a moment like that when, many years ago, the first time, I saw Winnie John Gung's Levitations, which we now know much more commonly, but it had not been seen by very many people, and it was the version of the Asra in which the person flies so high there's no way to even reach up and pull the cloth off. And so they get so high up that the magician has to be like Superman and fly up from the stage up and hover down and then pull out the cloth and slowly float back down. And I'll tell you I don't mind saying the first time I saw that, I mean, I had tears in my eyes. It was so beautiful. It was like that is how the bench looked that you know. It wasn't done as a tada was. It was a piece of beauty. It was like, you know, oh, my god, I've started this magic emotion. What am I gonna do? I know the next thing to do, but I can't do it. I'm stuck here on the physical level. Wait, I have to summon, oh yes. And then it was like got it, you know, and up into the air, up to the heights, to pull the clock down and slowly come back to the ground was just so, so beautiful.
Speaker 3:I really wish we would get back to more of that in magic. I think we've lost. We've gotten head heavy in magic and mentalism. We've gotten very head heavy and we think it's all about fooling the intellect. And it's not. It's about connecting with people, and connecting not only connecting to people on the personality level, but connecting to them on a deeper level, on a much greater level, and understanding these beautiful symbols of art that we have at our disposal and using them, treating them that way. It's not just trick of the week club or day club or whatever it is, now it's. You know, all those things, used well, can be something else. And you know, I really, I would really like to see us get back to the soul of that.
Speaker 3:I think that's how I ended up getting labeled to as a mentalist and the guy that can do everything with nothing, which really isn't true, but in a way it is, and that's because it was always about connection.
Speaker 3:It's always about can we talk about these things on a deeper level? Let's do that and, if I can work on things with you on a deeper level, we're connected and we're friends and we're close, and yet we also know there's something else that's mysterious hanging out in that atmosphere. Eugene used to say, eugene Berger used to say to me, you know, can you actually have a foot in both worlds? And he said most magicians aren't like that. And I thought that's a pretty good description, you know, of me, I think, and I would love to have more of us be able to be very grounded and sensible and logical and analytical, but also be able to reach for the heights and the depths within us too. I don't think it has to be one or the other, I don't think it has to be one or the other, I don't think it ever has, and I think we're mistaken when we take that one extreme pull or the other.
Speaker 2:That's never it well, I think we can see that with your list. I think that the list is so varied but there's so much thought that's gone into it. Um, and even when you were talking about, you know, using cards as a way to connect, and you've got the, the tarot deck and the idea that this, this cane and this sphere that are just moving on their own, show that maybe you know more and there's more to you than maybe that meets the eye. All of that is um very interesting, but it does lead us on to your two curveball items. So, your two curveball items. Of course, you've had eight tricks, but you're only allowed one each of these. So what did you put in your book position?
Speaker 3:in my book position I would put cases the tarot, a key to the wisdom of the ages. It's impossible to talk about that book and I often refer it to students in tarot, but with the warning that it's probably going to look like complete gibberish to you for a while. But the more you hold tarot cards in front of you and read that stuff, the more it will show up. I spent decades now doing that and I still pick up that book and go what you revealed all that in here. I never saw that before. You know, it's literally when you have eyes to see the next steps and you'll see it and it's in that book. Um, it's. It's so that, yeah, that's has to be a. That's like a lifelong, many lifelongs, thing, perhaps. Yeah, amazing.
Speaker 2:We've not had a tarot book before, so that's a really interesting one. So is that what you would recommend? If someone wants to get into reading tarot, is that a good baseline to get stuck in?
Speaker 3:No, and let me be fair about that If you are very sincere about tarot yes, I mean, it's the only book I would recommend to start. It really covers primarily the major arcana, as it should. The minor arcana is like a couple pages in the back, but it's important because it will give you the depth of what tarot really is about and, while you might not understand all the things, it will help you understand some of the associations and the various traditions that relate and why it's so complicated and it's so much more than you think it is. And when you understand that, then your way of handling a tarot deck, even in a magic trick, is going to be very different. The tarot intensives, you know.
Speaker 3:We just started the first class of a new set a couple days ago. After that three hours, they were like, oh well, we'll never touch a tarot deck the same. And it's like, yeah, that's what you want to feel. You know, look, I've worked in magic shops, man. I remember as a kid having the magic shop and say, oh, we have to sell tarot decks. It's good, it's good money maker, you know. And it's like I don't know about those things. You know, geez, whatever. And people come in and go. Oh well, this isn't right. That color of yellow is not the right shade of yellow.
Speaker 2:Ah, give me a freaking break.
Speaker 3:You know, get out of my start. Yeah, you know, it just sort of drives me crazy. Somebody else would go. You know what? I had a friend who once took the tarot deck and put thumbtacks in it, stuck it in the oh sacrilegious, and I'd go. These people are crazy. They're all worried about this kind of silly, superstitious nonsense.
Speaker 3:Well, because I didn't know enough, you know, I was ignorant, I thought they were ignorant, I was wrong, I was ignorant. And, by the way, ignorant doesn't mean stupid, it means you don't know, I didn't know, I didn't know better, I hadn't studied with an open mind about any of that stuff. So when I did, yeah, wow, you know, volumes opened up. So that would be. That's if you can handle it and just don't freak out right away and just try to stay with it. It will certainly show you the depth, the complexity of people who take tarot seriously, so that you don't fall into that easy trap of, oh, it's easy, you just make stuff up. Because when you understand the depths of what's in that book, you'll go oh, I don't have any clue about any of that. Just making stuff up seems really silly. You know, it's not the answer. It's a horrible idea.
Speaker 3:I had a friend of mine who made a wonderful trick and I'm not going to mention what it is, but he made a wonderful trick and he put it out and I got it, and I saw it out, and I got it and I saw it and I messaged him and said you know, there's reasons for tarot being made the way it is. And he goes no, but I did this because by changing this color and changing that color, it's easier for this mnemonic system, and by changing this and changing that makes it easier for the trick, it looks better in a layout. And by changing this and changing that, I went that's, you don't understand tarot. It's like saying, well, I made this guy red because who cares? It's all made up.
Speaker 3:It's like but it's the sky, you know, if the sky is red, there's a. We got a problem, don't we? You know, you don't just. But he didn't know and I really tried to talk to him about it and he was like, well, I don't care, and anybody I ever perform that trick for doesn't care anyway. So why should I? And I thought, because you haven't run into people who know better.
Speaker 3:But it's because he haven't run into people who know better. That's really probably not true. He probably has People who know better don't usually say anything. So which brings me back to one other story.
Speaker 3:Jc Wagner and I were working a resort here in Phoenix together, and most people don't know this. Jc was very well trained in tarot and hermetic thinking, and JC and I, after we finished, we saw that somebody, one of this giant corporation, had also hired a tarot reader. So let's go over and just for fun, you know, let's support the guy you know be encouraging. So we went over there because he didn't have a line, which is unusual. Readers almost always have a big line and stuff and so we thought we'd help him out. He gave us readings and JC and I are looking at each other and we said afterwards we walked away and we talked amongst ourselves. We walked back to him and said can we talk to you for a second? He goes, sure you may speak to me. Him and said can we talk to you, bruce? He goes, sure you may speak to me.
Speaker 3:And he said look, you know we're not experts on Nero. We know enough to know we're not, because only foolish people would say that, but you showed us this and said this. You showed us this and said that, and that's not even close, that's so not appropriate. And he goes well, that's the way I do it. And we said, okay, but we just want you to, that's fine, you can do however you want, but we just want you to know that there's like a traditions and history behind this and they should probably be aware of some of the symbols and whatever. And they should probably be aware of some of the symbols and whatever. And at that point, jc and I just went okay.
Speaker 3:We walked away. That was that People know. Mostly we don't say anything, but lots of people know and you have to understand. There are millions and millions and millions of people, billions probably, all over the world that study it. So for you to think I'm ignorant, therefore they're ignorant, is not smart. It's just not a wise position to be in. So if you're going to, either don't use props and things that you don't know about, or learn about them.
Speaker 2:Great choice. Lots of people hopefully digging out that book then and learning about tarot a bit more, but it does bring us on to your item. So what was the non-magic item that you use for magic?
Speaker 3:The non-magical item. I'd have to have period just so I can live as a piano. I just have to have it. It also relates to everything else because of what I do, but yeah, I'd have to have the piano. You know, it would be nice if I had a way to record stuff or write down whatever it was coming up with, but I'd have to have a piano, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think between a piano and a pool table. Those are the two most frequented things that people have mentioned.
Speaker 3:Those are the two most frequented things that people have mentioned. Yeah, you know, again, we don't talk about it a lot, but you think about, some of the greatest magicians in history are musicians too, you know, you know. I mean, if you go to Penn and Teller and hang out, what's going on? There's a pianist. That's a jazz guy. Well, no, I just go to Foolist Great, Go talk to Mike Close, he's a piano guy.
Speaker 3:I mean, there's so many of us that do things. I just happen to also write my own music and perform and do all that stuff in music too. But there's so many of us Mark Striving's my good pal from way back, you know, as a jazz musician there's so many of us that do music. I mentioned the book, this tarot book, by Paul Foster Case. He got into it because he was a magician, gave a couple lectures, talks at the Magic Council. In fact, back in the day he was a magician who was also a conductor and a concert pianist and one show he was backstage and this guy leaned over to him and said, hey, so Case.
Speaker 2:Where do you?
Speaker 3:think playing cards come from? You're sitting there shuffling cards back here backstage. You know where do you think they come from? He goes. Where do you think playing cards come from? You're sitting there shuffling cards back here backstage. Where do you think they come from? He goes. What do you mean? He goes, come here. And that started him on his opening up all sorts of incredible things. He was definitely a leader in that kind of thinking after that, so you would be surprised at how many people are into deeper symbolism, um, that walk the halls of the castle, um, and that are well-known names, and how many musicians there's a reason irma still plays the piano at the castle yeah, it's great, it's a great choice and I'm sure we're going to have lots more people choose it.
Speaker 2:uh, it's inevitable, but it's a great, great list and some really fantastic magic and some great thinking in there. But if people want to find out more about you, kenton, and everything that you're doing, especially online, where can they go?
Speaker 3:The website for magicians and mentalists is wonderwizardscom W-O-N-D-E-R-W-I-Z-A-R-D-S. Make sure you put the S in there Wonderwizardscom. And yeah, I mean, we listen, I've been pretty prolific, but you can get all the hardbound books. You can get all the recordings, all the things I'm known for, a lot of the stuff we've talked about actually right there. So that's the place to grab me, and I am on social media and you can find me on Facebook too. So if you want to know something or get in touch more, message me. That's the quickest way. Don't email the company or something because, good luck, I'll get to that, but message me quickly. I'd be happy to try to quickly respond when I can.
Speaker 2:Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time, Kenton, and thank you for sharing all of those little pearls and wisdom and those little anecdotes as well.
Speaker 3:It's been a. It's been a great pleasure to be with you, as always, and all my best to all my friends there amazing and thank you all for listening, as always.
Speaker 2:Please do leave us a review on whatever platform that you're listening to this on. It really does help us move through the rankings. Please do go check out kenton's website as well. Um, I see him very active on facebook and there's always something incredible going on. He's very, very busy and he's very, very active, so please do go seek those out. Of course, check out some of the things that he's spoken about. If you feel like that's something that you want to explore, then go for it, but, with being said, we will see you next week on another episode of Desert Island Tricks. Goodbye.
Speaker 1:Hi, peter Nardi here and I really hope you enjoyed that podcast. I just wanted to make you know that Alakazam have their own app. You can download it from the app store or the google play store. By downloading the app, it will make your shopping experience even slicker. At Alakazam, you'll also get exclusive in-app offers and in-app live streams. So go download it now and we'll see you on the next podcast.