Desert Island Tricks
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Desert Island Tricks
Nick Mohammed
Today we are joined by the multi-talented Nick Mohammed, known for his roles as Nate on "Ted Lasso" and the ever-hilarious Mr. Swallow. Nick takes us on a magical ride through his fascinating career, sharing personal anecdotes and the unique approach he takes to comedy and magic. From captivating memory feats on "Cats Does Countdown" to the masterful blending of humour and apparent mishaps in his routines, Nick reveals the artistry behind his performances and his journey within the world of comedy and illusion.
Step onto Alakazam Island with Nick as he shares his admiration for the memorised deck and his experiences incorporating the mnemonica stack into numerous shows, captivating audiences with its simplicity and power. Discover the charm of the Chop Cup and how a straightforward routine involving satsumas can sometimes outshine even the most elaborate of illusions like the Water Tank Escape. Nick offers insights into his creative process, the joy of unexpected surprises, and the collaborative efforts involved in refining his routines.
Unveil the magic of flight and levitation and the role of electronics in modern magic, as Nick highlights the blend of technology and creativity at the heart of his performances. Learn about the exhilarating world of mentalism and the power of predictions, where simplicity meets profound showmanship. With personal stories and bold performances, Nick Mohammed's episode is a treasure trove of insight and laughter, not only is he charming and generous with his time but there are plenty of unexpected moments that will truly help you to elevate the art of your performance.
Nick's Desert Island Tricks:
1) Memorised Deck
2) Chop Cup
3) Out of this World
4) Water Tank Escape
5) Flying
6) Multi Dimensional (electronics)
7) News Paper Headline Predictions (predictions)
8) Bold Effects
Book) Notes From a Fellow Traveller
Item) CD Player
Chats with influential, inspiring, prolific and community oriented folks.
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
Alright, listen up, fellas. As of late I feel like y'all have heard enough of my jibber-jabber, so I asked Nate the Great here to jot down a few of his thoughts and ideas about you guys and today's game. All yours, Nate.
Speaker 2:Okay, isaac, I've noticed of late that you've been playing like a big dumb p***.
Speaker 1:Everybody, please give it up for Mr Swallow.
Speaker 2:How you lot. So, look, if you are used to seeing me as Nate from Ted Lasso, you are used to seeing me as Nate from Ted Lasso, you are going to need to recalibrate just a little bit, because this is very different. Over in the dictionary corner it's Mr Swallow.
Speaker 1:APPLAUSE. Are you the guy who emails? Who's the guy that emails?
Speaker 2:I don't know. That's why I'm asking.
Speaker 1:No, it's not me, so it's not you Right?
Speaker 2:fine, carry on, jimmy, carry on. I wrote down during that. Nick, tell me about life as a smaller man, because I would have just been out. It's absolutely fine. I'll see other sort of short men who are my height or even maybe a little bit taller and I'll think God, that's short.
Speaker 3:Hello and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. So, as you can see, well, you may not see this because you may be listening to this in your car, on a walk or anywhere else, but today we have another video on, which means we have a very special guest. Now I am truly, very excited for this because I have seen today's guest in many different capacities over the years. I was a big fan of his sort of magic character or magic persona, who was Mr Swallow, and very, very, very funny. Do you know what? If you've not seen it genuinely, please go to YouTube, look up Mr Swallow. Absolutely excellent, so, so funny. And then, of course, he was in a TV show. Now, because I do babble sometimes at the beginning, I've actually written a structured introduction for this, so I'm going to give an actual introduction.
Speaker 3:So, actor, writer, comedian and creator, the multi-talented Nick Muhammad joins us on the Al-Khazam Island today. Now, from his unforgettable role as Nate on Ted Lasso one of my favorites to his hilarious alter ego, mr Swallow, who you should go and check out, nick has taken the comedy world by storm, but he's also an incredible magician. Now, if you've seen him on Cat Stars Countdown, you'd also seen him perform some of his incredible magic, including memorizing the Wagamama menu, which was just excellent, memorizing a deck of cards, and even had his son on the show who, reverse, memorized a stack of cards with animals on, which was so phenomenal, and watching the other celebrities' reaction to that was priceless. It was excellent, and you could tell that it was a real reaction from them as well, which was superb. So sit back, relax and get ready as we explore the desert island list of the wonderful Nick Mohamed. Hello, nick.
Speaker 2:Jamie, that is a very kind introduction. Thank you, and a pleasure to be here on the Alakazam Island. Is that what we're?
Speaker 3:calling it. This is what we're calling it.
Speaker 2:Honestly, thank you for having me. Big fan of the show, big fan of Alakazam and everyone who sails in it and, yeah, what an absolute. I think I've heard other magicians say this when they've come on this show, there's something incredibly cathartic and just really fascinating, going kind of actually working out what your eight choices might be and and why they are that, and so it's been a real pleasure.
Speaker 3:so thank you for having me on, basically, well, I'm very excited to hear your list now. Obviously we've only seen a few sort of tricks on tv, but even those, I mean, you tend to go down sort of a mentalism-y memory feat thing. But you have also done a Rubik's Cube as well. So I'm not sure where this is going to go. I don't know if this is going to be sort of mentalism heavy or if we're going to get some curveball classics in there. It really could go. Either way it's going to be an interesting list.
Speaker 2:I think I'd say there's a real mix actually, because, whilst it's funny, you should say about mentalism, because I I had some quite hard and fast rules about what mr swallow couldn't, kind of couldn't, do and actually, apart from I think he's done chop cup on castor's countdown and that is well. I don't want to give anything away, but, but that's probably one of my choices, I've given it away, um, but I I never really wanted him to be sort of a magician, or if he did try magic tricks, that they would probably kind of go wrong. But actually his thing is is memory, and you know stunts and you know he's, he's into all that sort of jack of all trades, sort of master of none, just sort of trying his hand at anything. So you know, yeah, memory, memory does feature quite a lot on the list as well. But yeah, but I've all, but I have always loved that as well.
Speaker 3:So you know, trying to use all the things I generally like and using them via mr swallow well, there's a real um tommy cooper-esque vibe to mr swallow, especially with the chop cup routine where he's he's almost like. Um, I say he like, he's not you where you are like um, I do that, which is really pretentious.
Speaker 2:I mean, when I do it it's worse.
Speaker 3:So you can, you can get away with it, but I can't but on during that show there was a moment where it goes wrong and you're almost freezing. You're like no, no, where, where is this thing? And there's almost always an element where your character is trying to work out how it's working and it is. It's so believable when you do it. Uh, even I think there's a part with um rob beckett where he interrupts you when you're memorizing the deck and you keep stopping him. You know, this is serious, rob, rob, shut up, I need to do this, um. So there's there's a really real human characteristic to that character when you're presenting those tricks yeah, he's just, he's just clumsy.
Speaker 2:I guess in that he's the. The thing that I think works best with mr swallow is when there is some kind of operation, whether it's a routine that he's gonna do or he's promised to do, or he's gonna give a lecture on a certain topic, or he's gonna do a musical, or there's very various kind of guises. I kind of use mr swallow in, but but almost inevitably they always end the same way, which is you very quickly realize that the machine of this, whatever, whatever it is, is far too big for him, or or that he he's constantly trying to play catch-up, or he doesn't really know how it works, or he hasn't learned the lines, or he's unrehearsed in some way, but then the sting in the tail is often actually he's able to accomplish it sort of, you know, by some kind of really strange kind of route, and I've always liked that as a, as a, as just a ruse for kind of getting an audience on side. Frankly, I mean, it's very traditional magician in trouble, sort of sucker fin it. You know, I love all that kind of stuff. It's just, it's quite basic actually, um, but um, it suits mr swallow quite well because he does go on.
Speaker 2:And I should say, for anyone who's unaware of miss swallow which will be plenty of people, I'm sure but you know, he's this northern sort of busy buddy. It sounds quite camp, but that's only because it's an impersonation of my english teacher from when I was doing gc season. She was a she, so it's sort of me being her, but I never really referenced that ever. It's just, I just sort of feel like I'm her when I'm doing it and I've done that voice and that impression since I was a kid at school. So, um, it's not like there's any innuendo in it or anything, but it is. It is quite camp and it's quite. You know, obviously it's northern but it's uh, and eventually, as the character evolved, it did feel like it had a sort of end of the pier kind of quality to it, like a slightly with slight delusions of grandeur, like never quite sort of being in the sort of the bright lights, of the spotlight, but really wanting that, always being the loudest voice in the room but also the worst person in the room to be taking charge of anything, I think. So, um, it's strange that now I do do quite a lot of, quite a lot of magic through that persona, because that was never. It was actually never the intention, in fact because I'd had a.
Speaker 2:I'd been brought up doing magic and and and work professionally as a magician for a while and way before I kind of got into comedy or acting. And actually when I started to get into comedy I actually used the magic to sort of hide the comedy a little bit, because I was never super confident with the comedy. So I thought, well, I know that I can get the magic to work, so I can sort of rely on the magic a bit more. And then actually magic then crept out of my comedy act because there wasn't a place for it as much, I guess, as I got more experience just doing stand-up. It was always in character and various characters, not just Mr Swallow. And then, weirdly, mr Swallow then became the one that felt the strongest of the characters and then I thought, oh, it'd be interesting putting magic now back in, but through the guise of that character, and what does it do to the magic? And what does it do to the magic and what does it do to the character? And actually it serves both very well, or from my point of view, it serves them well because it meant that I suddenly had an angle to present.
Speaker 2:You know, tricks that lots of people would be doing, um, and I think you referenced um before the idea that mr swallow almost kind of can't believe that the magic is happening, almost, and doesn't know how it's happening, and actually that's quite a fun angle and you can push that in lots of different directions. And and actually from a method point of view I know that we don't talk too much about method on this, but but it's, it's really useful misdirection as well, because the amount of jiggery-pokery that you can get up to in in character and it's hidden by the fact that you're in character, um, I, I remember for that chop cup routine we'll get to it because it is on my list, but I remember doing that in a in a show where mr swallow was trying to sort of front the show about houdini um and do like a biopic sort of musical retelling of houdini's life and um, and and the chop cup featured in that as a routine about how houdini sort of started off doing magic before we kind of got into escapology and um, uh, he, there's a kind of cast in that show who are sort of trying to sort of keep Mr Swallow on track and keep things moving and, um, at one point, you know, mr Swallow is so shocked by one of those final loads he's like oh, my god, oh, piss off, what's that doing there? What like that? And and actually I just sort of hand the cup to someone else and I'm so shocked by it and they just, they just pop a love and load in. They just they just load a chop cup right in front of everyone. But it's because everyone's sort of laughing and giggling at Mr Swallow's reaction that no one would see that coming.
Speaker 2:It meant I didn't have to do as well, which is great, but it meant that we got one more load than actually would be. Kind of, you know, probably within within reason. So I, yeah, you know, you know the character now sort of serves my kind of joy of doing magic really well, because I feel like I found a way in which they can, I guess, compliment each other rather than I think previously I had worried that well, either the comedy is sacrificed, because people then don't take the magic seriously, or the magic overwhelms the comedy and you know it doesn't. You know you're always sort of sacrificing one for the other, whereas I feel with mr swallow. And don't get me wrong, it's always a balancing act and I'm always trying to find the right way for the right routines of presenting stuff, but it feels like there's something there that I can, that I can make work and has magic.
Speaker 3:I mean certainly nate isn't really a character who would maybe perform magic, but has magic crept in your other acting roles, in different places when you least expected it.
Speaker 2:It never has. Actually, the only thing I would say about Ted Lasso is that Jason Sudeikis, who plays Ted Lasso and who created the show along with Joe Kelly and Brendan Hunt, he's a huge. I mean, he's a brilliant magician and a huge magic buff and fan. And so I mean the first day that I met Jason, at the read through of the pilot, he had like a deck of light bikes and we're just fiddling with it and it was his thing, it's his sort of thing to fidget with a deck of cards and he had them on set and he knew I did magic and he'd seen little clips as well. So we would just geek out about magic stuff and still do like all the time, always sort of sending each other stuff. And you know, he, he is a a brilliant magician who who is similarly kind of.
Speaker 2:I guess I don't actually know when jason got into magic. I think possibly a bit later than I did. I think he was probably in adulthood rather than. I don't know if he got into it as a kid, but um, he's so, he's so, he's so good at it and and, uh, and, and if he got into it as a kid, but he's so good at it and if he ever does get a deck of cards he has such a great, obviously manner and presentation with it that just feels very him.
Speaker 3:Well, that makes me even more excited for your list. So let's tell everyone what the concept is. So if you've never, ever joined us before on the Alakazam Island, the idea is that we are about to maroon Nick on his own desert island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks, one book and one non-magic item that he uses for magic. The particulars like who's there, how many people are there? Are there animals there? Are there shacks there? Whatever he wants, it's all within his own imagination. We do not mind. It's basically the ultimate list of tricks that if nick could perform them for the rest of his days, that's what he would do. So, with that being said, nick, we are on your desert island now. It's lovely and warm.
Speaker 3:Thank you for that lovely um let's find out what's in your first position. What did you put in your first place?
Speaker 2:well, it's, it's, I guess not. I would say none of these are in any particular order, but but first position, I think, has to be memorized deck, and not just because I feel like I've managed to get a lot out of it, but just it. It's still for me so versatile, like and you know, we can talk about memorized deck, whether we're talking about it as a, um, uh, performing the memory, you know, memorizing a deck routine which I've done as mr swallow and cast this countdown. In fact, I literally did it last night at an event, performing the memory, you know, memorizing a deck routine which I've done as Mr Swallow, on Cats' Countdown. In fact, I literally did it last night at an event where I was just opening for an award thing, and it is just one of those things where it is just about believable that it is possible, and of course it is possible, it is genuinely possible, but you know, not quite possibly that possible at speed, um, but I have found it to be such a kind of believable, uh, piece of trickery. I adore, I just adore it and I think the amount, the amount of the sheer amount of people that absolutely buy into every single word of it staggers me.
Speaker 2:I actually then last night was sat next to someone who knew actually quite a lot about magic and it wasn't a magician like did the odd trick, but was a director really and he said to me he said, oh, is that just a stack? And you're just, you're just false, shuffling a lot. And I was like I just said, oh, no, no, no, I've, I've, no, I can I genuinely do it? And he's like, oh wow, is it a real method? It's like, yeah, yeah, no, you can look it up online and they bought it. And the thing is you do somewhat live with a lie, but I don't mind. In my head I'm like that's part of the whole experience, that lie. And you know, look, it's not like I'm pretending to communicate with people from the dead or anything like that. So I feel like I love that, I love the illusion of it.
Speaker 2:It's also a really pure effect, like in terms of the challenge of it and what it is and the audience being able to understand what it is. Here's a deck of cards. Everyone knows what a deck of cards is. They're going to be shuffled, seemingly shuffled by people in the audience and shuffled again by me. I memorize them, I give them to you and I'm going to try and recite them in order. It's so easy to understand and it's almost you know. You know to a degree you could. It's you know the there's no language barrier. You know you could watch it and actually it's the rhythm of the performance that sells it and, um, I've just found it to be an absolute gift and I first learned the uh mnemonica stack.
Speaker 2:Um, uh, back in, like god, 2009, 2010, I want to say um, and uh, oh, did I? Am I making that up? Was it then? I think it was. I think it's 2009. Yeah, it will have been.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think when mnemonica came out now, but and then I popped it in a 2010 Edinburgh Fringe show the year after and it just it was really funny because I remember at that time, because I still quite new to the stack, I was still having to think a little bit about sort of getting through it and finding the best rhythm and, you know, making sure that it doesn't just feel like you're listing 52 things, um, which you are. Um, and I remember one reviewer said, oh it's, it's as impressive as it is slow, and I'm thinking, oh, that's not. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, because I think you know what. What it did do, was it sold. The fact that it was real, but actually them thinking it was real made them think. Well, I understand why he's having to take his time over it, but it makes it feel so and so I feel like over a number of performances I mean that was, you know, gosh, 14 years ago, but you know, since then I must have done it a thousand times. You know, I've done it so many times, maybe not a thousand, but like a good number of hundreds and um, and it just I just love playing around with it. I love, you know, I've I've tried to put in as I've tried to eke out as much as I possibly can, and it's a really fun one to do, as mr swallow, because again it's like what I was saying at the site it feels like the kind of thing where you can start off by getting them wrong.
Speaker 2:I mean, I just genuinely do I just get like the second one wrong instantly. And there are lots of jokes about pretending to see the cards and having a you know different sort of pegs for each of the cards and who they are, and queen of diamonds is the queen of england. You know, just playing around with that and there's so much, I think, fun to be out of it because, again, it's such a simple premise. You can then deviate and people can get back on board with it. It's really straightforward. It's just one audience member and, uh, it just feels really concise and I just, I just adore it and, like I said, it just feels, you know, just on the cusp of believability and I, I, I love it for that and, um, I, but not just the fact that.
Speaker 2:Then so I also do, and I, well, I'm working on it for another show, but a way in cars routine, which is same stack, um, and then also the, the sheer amount of stuff that you can then just do with a stacked deck that you've memorized. It's just infinite. So it's the versatility as well of just using a memorized deck as a tool, whether you're then doing the memorizing a deck of playing cards routine or not. Just that, the, the simple beauty, if you can dedicate that time it takes it does take time to, you know fully learn your stack, but once you've got it, I mean you can do anything.
Speaker 2:And got a marked stack deck is just, I mean you can just do miracle. I mean, you just don't need anything else, really a false shuffle if you really want to as a convincer. But and the one I do is really sloppy and deliberately sloppy. You know, I can't really do sleight of hand, to be honest, and so it's just, I feel like it's such a gift and the amount of phenomenal literature you know from tamariz aronson, um, you know, just so many people have written some phenomenal, phenomenal stuff on on, memorize that. You know it's an absolute treasure trove. So I sort of feel like if you, if you just dedicate some time to memorizing the stack and then you've got this wealth of literature which would then just tell you the most incredible tricks in the world that you can do with it and you literally don't even need to do anything, you can, if you can sort of add two numbers or subtract the other, I mean it's just I, I love it and I think that's, I think that's the other thing, because I've I've got quite sort of short, sort of stubby hands.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's like you know, I can't really palm a card without it sort of poking out this sort of sort of here. Basically. So I've always, but I've enjoyed kind of like slight, slightly more kind of mental gymnastics. So things like a memorized deck and things that are a little more, I guess, mathematical in principle rather than requiring proper kind of finger flinging stuff, has always appealed to me. And the Memorized Deck, just, you know, just suits me to an absolute T. So that is my first entry and, yeah, I adore it, adore it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what a phenomenal choice.
Speaker 3:Now, if people haven't seen Nick's version, as Mr Swallow, please go and see it, because some of the things that you were just talking about there about rhythm and pace what I loved about that performance is I think you had a real fine balance between it being fast and snappy but really believable.
Speaker 3:And in particular, there's the beginning, where you have to look at the first card in order to then remember the next one, which feels like a really human thing to do, to give it some credence, some legitimacy. And then, towards the middle, you have the I think it's the queen going clubbing in Seven Sisters and then you have that sort of middle bit which breaks up that pattern and it again legitimizes it a little bit more. And then at the end you have the wonderful joke of oh, it'd be such a shame, wouldn't it? It'd be such a shame if I got it wrong at this point. So the way that you've structured that routine is so well thought through to make it feel even more legitimate well, it's, that's very kind of you to say and you know what.
Speaker 2:It's taken a lot of time to kind of get, I think, get it to a to that kind of stage really, and it's really funny. You say about that pause, but I think I always pause on. I don't start on the start of the stack, I think I start on the king of hearts, because I there's certain cards I wanted in certain positions and I throw a joker in there and I now do it actually such that when the person comes out the audience they actually take a card, they don't look at it and they just put it in their pocket and actually reveal that as a kind of um process of elimination, as a sort of final kind of kicker thing. Um is what I do now, but um, but it's funny, you should say about that moment of silence when I basically, when I've got five cards left, I always take a really long pause and I just say to the person I say, have you got five cards left? And they say yes, and then I just, and my, my absolute goal is for there to be absolute sort of silence in the audience and I try and prolong it for as long as possible, before I then say it'd be a shame on it and and it's funny because I try and always play chicken with the audience a little bit, because sometimes I've left it too long and actually someone has then giggled sort of like in the sort of silence, in the kind of the awkwardness of it, and actually it takes the edge off that that sort of punch line or semi-punch line and um, but then it's nice to leave it for as long as possible before delivering it so it doesn't almost feel too planned.
Speaker 2:And again it I guess it sort of plays into that believability, but it's something that has taken time, that routine actually, but I do love it and I um, and actually what's good about keeping on doing it and you know I don't obviously do it too much anymore but I'll do it at functions and events occasionally if I'm, if I'm asked to um is that it just keeps me on top of the stack. It keeps it. You know I'm hoping that that'll never, never leave my head anymore, but it means that then when I just go and play around with the deck of cards which are are in stacked order I've got, you know, it's all, it's all still in there.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a great great first choice and it does lead us very nicely into your second choice. So what did you put in your second position?
Speaker 2:Something totally different. It's Chop Cup, which, I excuse me, which I alluded to before. And again, I think and you know what I feel bad about, because I'm trying to think how many of these have I chosen that are things that I do? Probably about three quarters. Is that bad? Is that too self-indulgent? But it is that thing, isn't it? You kind of you know a lot more about the stuff that you do, or the reason why you find it is because you're sort of drawn to it. But Chop Cup I've had a really long relationship with chop prep.
Speaker 2:I remember getting, um, a really tiny one, like one probably, like that, like two, two, three inches big maybe. Um, uh, when I was a kid, like when I was 12 and love it, and like a small kind of little crocheted ball. Like what are those crochet balls? I mean, like where are they found in real life? Um, but, uh, but I and I loved it and I used to do it like a you know, but I never really knew what to do. I just sort of just do it and it would just appear and then just do it, and it was really simple when I was a kid and then when I was a bit older, I guess, when I was 15, 16, I was really lucky I met, I got to meet Paul Daniels um after a show that he'd done in middlesbrough, and he said, and and and at the time I wasn't a member of like a magic society or anything, but I was kind of keen to and I was aware that they sort of existed but didn't quite know how to sort of go about sort of doing that. And um and he said, oh well, you know there's lots of good magicians in in leeds and you should meet this guy called harry nichols. And he gave me the contact for like the, the northern magic circle, because the junior section that would meet in bradford every every month. So I very much did that. And anyway, there was this brilliant guy I think I believe he's still, he's still alive, I think he's 89 now.
Speaker 2:A guy called harry nichols, um, and bless him. He was such a, he's such a great, he's such a character. Um, I haven't, I haven't been in contact with him for, oh god, like 15 plus years probably now. But um, and he was, I think he was like best man at paul daniel's wedding when, when him and debbie got married, and so he was kind of very. You know, and you know he performed magic. It was what he did. He was a really great, him like stephen tucker they were kind of like at the time they kind of go to kind of close-up guys, particularly around that part of um in england and um, anyway, I ended up having sort of some lessons with harry um, like every I don't know, every two or three weeks.
Speaker 2:It's like 15 quid, and I'd sort of just sit in his living room for an hour and he'd sort of really just sort of perform at me and then occasionally sort of teach me the odd thing. But it was just joyful. Anyway, he was a, a sort of a a pupil of ken bro Brooks as it, as a lot of people I think were around that age at the north of England. I never met Ken Brook, but anyway he taught me the Ken Brook chop cup routine and, as is the kind of the way, particularly in that era, you literally will learn to word for word, like you stole their pattern. But it was sort of like accepted, oh no, you do that line there because that's what Ken Brook did and you just do it and do it and um, but it was really interesting because I sort of do.
Speaker 2:So I learned this quite involved chop cup routine and it had like a like a little shot glass as part of the routine and it was. There was lots of stuff kind of going on. It wasn't just like what I had like originally learned and so I ended up getting a full-size chop cup anyway so I could do that from. I could do that like a chop cup routine from like sort of 15, 16. So I used to gig with it quite a lot. Actually when I, when I started working like restaurants and hotels and doing weddings and stuff I would, I would sort of end with chop cups. So I became quite familiar with it.
Speaker 2:And then really then much, much later on I did a, a Mr Swallow show called Houdini, which was sort of him attempting to sort of reenact or like kind of do a biopic retelling, a musical retelling of Houdini's life, and it started off and there was a small cast in that as well and one of the routines in that was him doing the Chop Crap routine and but there was also that kind of thing of like, oh, he didn't really quite know like what he was doing, he'd not really rehearsed it, so he was sort of trying to sort of. He sort of had learned the pattern but didn't really know what was going to happen, and so the idea was that he kept on being surprised that the ball was kind of kept reappearing, and then obviously the balls would become satsumas, and then he didn't really know what a satsuma is, which is its own thing, um, and then, like, more satsumas appear and so on. But the thing that I was just going back to say was that, similar to the memorized deck, the reason why it sort of serves me well, slash, mr Swallow. Well, is that it's a really simple idea, and I've heard Paul Daniels talk about the chop cup previously and say he preferred it to the cups and balls because actually it's just one cup and it's one ball and actually from an audience's point of view, it's just a really direct and it's a simple thing. And again, it's often presented as a challenge is the cup, you know, under the, is the ball under the cup? Or is it in my pocket? And you know, it's just a really simple thing for an audience to kind of get the head around, and then obviously it becomes a little bit more, um, uh, tricksy. As the, you know, the ball keeps on doing all kinds of things. So, um, I I've always loved it as a simple premise and, um, it was.
Speaker 2:It was a funny old thing that, because I remember, you know, the room that we were in in Edinburgh was probably like on the larger side it's probably like 250, I think it would see, and you know it's a close up item really, but you know you could play it as a parlor item and I would do it. And I think that the biggest reaction and there was quite a lot of magic in that show, actually including a sub trunk, a water tank escape and various other bits and pieces, and but the thing that would always just absolutely get the biggest reaction hands down was was just a satsuma appearing under that cup for the first time. And it was. And it's so strange, isn't it, that you would you could spend goodness knows how much on big box illusions and all sorts of paraphernalia and actually the simplest thing was just popping a satsuma underneath a cup when they're not looking, or you think they're not looking, and you just lift it and you show it and it was really. Uh, I love that.
Speaker 2:I love that about magic.
Speaker 2:Still, I love that that we're still fooled as human beings in that way and that audiences and I'm talking about myself as well when I see magic performed and something takes you by surprise and it's so uplifting and it's just that, oh, you know if you can get the routine right, and again, this stuff always feels like it takes time and it's collaborative and you know you work with the director and a cast and you play around and you preview and you rehearse, but actually that moment when the sort of the storytelling and the joke and the character and the reveal, the magic reveal of something kind of all kind of come together, I feel like that was really that would happen with the Chop Cup.
Speaker 2:Actually, for that, particularly for that first reveal and I loved it for that and it would always be it became like my favorite bit of the show and it became the joke actually. Actually, because the producers, like we literally spent however many on a water tank and why didn't you tell me that this is something that just goes down the best and you already had. You already had a chop cup and satsuma's a pound for a bag or whatever well again.
Speaker 3:If you've not seen nick's performance, has missed the swallow again doing the chop cup. There are some lovely comic moments in that um in particular, and I'm sure, I genuinely dropped it, though, didn't I?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think so, yeah, but what?
Speaker 3:what was lovely about that was there's this great moment that could only have been done at that moment, at that time, but it was so wonderfully put together by yourself was when, um, I think, you say something like so for the third time is it under the cup or is it in the pocket? And then jimmy says wait, there's third time, isn't this the second? And you're like well, I don't know how they're going to edit this. Um, so there's that lovely moment jimmy's always.
Speaker 2:I mean jimmy's so great and and actually he's a big magic fan, he really enjoys magic and um, uh, he, he had always kind of pushed for mr swallow being on that show in the first place. Actually I was quite nervous about doing it because I didn't I'd not really done panel shows or anything prior to then and I was. I was encouraged by the fact that I'd be in dictionary corner because I'd be sort of more in control of my own bits. But, um, but I remember there's definitely been points. I remember doing a number square. Often they'll record me doing two or three things and they'll choose the the better one. But there's definitely been stuff that I've done on there that has never been shown because it's always it's literally just gone wrong. I mean like and um, there are points when Jimmy's like I mean I just don't know whether you're in character or not. I mean it's like, he's like what am I meant to believe that this is meant to work or what? Like, what was the point?
Speaker 2:I tried to do a number square as part of like, the numbers round which I've done in it I used to do uh, well, up until relatively recently, the last tour show ended with a number square, but it was all related to cats as countdown and the numbers round. Actually, um, and it has like a date prediction in there and things like that. But, um, I remember trying to do that on cats. I just sort of just lost my way doing the number square, so it just all added up something nonsense and they're like right, we can't use that, go back and sit back down. Well, that's easier on the one. So you know it's uh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's quite a few bits that have never made it are those things that you're gonna go back and redo at some point, though possibly I.
Speaker 2:But then it's quite funny whenever the producer's like, right now, what do you think about doing this time, I'm like, should I have another go at that? Like, no, don't try that. No, don't try that again, don't try that. But no, I think I genuinely have suggested doing the number square twice and they're like, maybe just stop doing that. Now the one that caused them the most nerves and it's the most, was it?
Speaker 2:The most recent thing that's been on was the one I did with Finn, who's my eldest son, which we recorded a while ago now. I mean, he sort of six and a half, I think, when we recorded it, um and um, and it's a memory thing and I won't go into the method because it's quite elaborate, but he, yeah, memorizes these sort of like 60 plus sort of animal flash cards in reverse order, and he, I mean how he managed to be as cool, I was terrified of him doing that. He and it was his idea he'd seen me do like memorized deck and he'd seen like clips of me doing this one is I can do that, that Can I do that? And I was like, well, if you want. And the producers were like, oh, yeah, ok, well, we could look into it. And they've obviously never had a kid on that show because you know it can be quite rude and bad language and so on. And they were, and so and I refuse to rehearse, as in I said to him because I often don't reveal the methods to any of the occasionally the odd person knows who's part of the production team but I don't like and I am quite protective because they're not really a magic outfit. I sort of try and protect it.
Speaker 2:But and um, so I was like oh no, I don't really want him to rehearse because you know, if he has two different orders going on in his head and rehearsing live, it's gonna mess with him. So I said we can block it, but I don't want you to um, I don't want him to to do the trick. So they were like okay, so they were absolutely terrified that he might sort of kind of and you know it's recorded live in front of like a studio audience of like 300 people or something. And he kind of came on and and yeah, he nailed it, and so I was so proud, but I was just, I think I think I almost come out character in it because I'm just so relieved that he got through it. But he absolutely nailed it and we were really pleased like I was really pleased like as a, because we had just worked on it as a routine and it was just quite a fun thing to do with your kid and he was so little still bless him. But yeah, he nailed it yeah, it was excellent.
Speaker 3:Uh, again, it's another clip for you guys to go check out, um, but with that being said, we're going to go into number three. So what did you put in your third position Number?
Speaker 2:three. Oh, out of this world. Oh, just my absolute. Again, it's just, it really, really. I mean so I learned out of this world. It was like in, like a pocketbook of magic, if you know, from like heading the library, you know, when I was like 10. It's just, it's so easily accessible, that trick, right, and it's so simple in method. Again, you know very little slight, I mean you can dress it up with, I guess, false shuffles and bits and bobs, but but it's really simple. You could do it with no slight of hand. Basically, I mean it's, it's, it's and it is the reaction, again, just the reaction to something so simple.
Speaker 2:I mean that poker is such a genius, I mean to come up with that. I mean it is just, and I've seen it kind of done in various ways, but I'm still, as in different kind of presentations and you know not that some that kind of don't use cards. And there was one Pete Turner thing actually that's really cool, that uses, I forgot I think it was in his book Acid Salt, which I don't actually have but it feels like a name drop. But Dynamo lent it to me, um and uh, and I read it and it was like there's this routine in it. I can't remember what it's called, but it's um, it kind of uses the principle of out of this world, but in a way that is so hidden, but it's really clever. It's to do with kind of loose change and stuff, but anyway it's great and it's like a prediction. At the end it's great anyway, um, uh, but out of this world, just again. So, so simple, um, really easy to understand, I think, from a presentation point of view, I, I, I think I'm drawn to those tricks which have a sort of challenge aspect to them to a degree, like that idea of like, okay, well, you know, if you think it's red, put it there, if you think it's black, put it there, we're just gonna see.
Speaker 2:We're just gonna see, or that. There's sort of an element of like, uh, this is an experiment or this is a bit of a game and we're gonna sort of see how we kind of uh, I think audiences just enjoy that. I think they know what their role is in that and also there's so much emphasis on they did it Like it's so hands off, it's like well, I don't, I don't even know how you did it. You did it, you did that, you could have put it there. But you did that and it's just, it's just again, so simple, so clever.
Speaker 2:I think I'm staggered that no one has worked through that like, like people can't work it out. I mean, it's sort of and and I, you know, I, I get it why? Because, like when I first, I was like, well, I literally have no idea and it is so it and it really borders that almost too perfect thing for because of course, it can't be possible, like to be that hands-off. The magician has literally given me the cards, I have put them in the piles and literally he's just and I can see just that there's no dodgy lift. He's going through them one at a time and then he's just showing them there and I can examine the deck, I can take the deck home. I mean, it is, it feels so perfect and it does make you question everything. Why, why aren't they questioning it more? Why aren't they? Why aren't they really? Why are they really thinking about how this could be done? And I don't know why. It's just, it's, it's such a mind blowing effect and again, I've, I've, I've, I've known it and done it for years and it's, it's just wonderful, it's absolutely wonderful, and my favorite way of doing. It is at the end of doing, you know, if you've done a few tricks or someone else done a few tricks and you've just kind of been toying with the deck just to get it in the right, you know state and then you just sort of just do it off the cuff and it is, it's lovely, it's a lovely one, and I did do. There was one that I was toying with with with photos of people. Um, it wasn't like a living, dead thing. I think maybe Darren did that in one of his early tv shows, but yeah, but I remember just coming to oh no, I know what it was.
Speaker 2:I used to do a thing as part of the presentation, maybe when I was 20, when I used I did used to do it as Swallow and I've actually weird, I've never done it on Cats as Canada Probably a good one to do at some point.
Speaker 2:And I remember as they're dealing and I'm sort of deliberately looking away and sort of talking and I'm just sort of saying and then I just sort of just say, oh, just pop that on there.
Speaker 2:And I just actually flash a card that they've put on the wrong pile and say I just wanted to just see, and I realized actually that's possibly tipping the method, tipping the method and I shouldn't do that and it's putting more of the emphasis on me, either card counting or kind of somehow influencing what you know, whatever they're doing. And I thought, oh, it's just not really me and it's not Mr Swallow, and actually I I realized that actually taking that quip out, even though it was a very small thing, enhanced it a lot more for for them and actually was just really unnecessary. And like you say that that original method it doesn't, it really doesn't need dressing up more than than than it is. This the beauty is in the simplicity of of the you know, not just the method but the presentation of it and, um, yeah, a brilliant, a brilliant, brilliant trick yeah, and a great great third choice, and it does lead us, lovely, into your fourth trick.
Speaker 3:So what did you put in your fourth position?
Speaker 2:water tank, uh, the water tank escape. Um, so I I've got so much to say about this. It's really, it's a really weird one. There is something about it. I I had seen lots of people do it before I, so I I did it then. As so the big build towards this houdini show that mr swallow did was did was the idea that it toyed with the idea that and we're going to be ending by recreating the famous Houdini water torture escape. And Swallow was just like what do you mean? We're ending with that? And it's like, basically, he's finding out live during the show that he's meant to be doing that and he's not rehearsed it. And they're all saying but, but no, you're just pretending you haven't rehearsed it because we're doing the show. But no, you're just pretending you haven't rehearsed it because we're doing the show. And he's like, no, I genuinely haven't.
Speaker 2:And so there's this sort of playing with this sort of dropping the fourth wall constantly, and anyway it ends with him doing it. It's quite a linear show in terms of but there's something about the water tank. It just has this inbuilt theatre into it and actually even I guess quite clunky performances of it still make me like sit up and sort of sort of sit forward in my seat that moment when the lid comes down, because there is something so visceral and so human about. Well, I know that you can't breathe underwater, um, and and even though, yeah, it might be a trick and yeah, they might have rehearsed it and even the struggle might be choreographed, it could still go wrong. And there are so many examples of things going wrong in the history of magic and people, you know, even recently, right and um, and there is just some. There's an absolute inbuilt sort of tension and an adrenaline rush, um, that you kind of get with that effect and um, well, you know we used to milk it for all it was worth doing it. Um, in the houdini and it's really interesting because the character, mrs waller, was so silly and clumsy and kind of like, oh, whatever. And at that point of the show, as soon as I stepped into the tank, even before the lid came down, people were like, oh, and we used to support it with playing some kind of rumbling I think it's called like brown noise, you know where you kind of really unsettle people, but they don't quite know why they're unsettled, and it's just this low rumbling. It's like a tube train is kind of going underneath ground, shaking a bit. It's unsettling and and um, and I used to take a good two minutes just breathing, just like before even going under, and it was, I mean, it's almost too much to be fair, but there's just something about it and and and. So I probably did it about 100 times over the course of doing that show, both in Edinburgh.
Speaker 2:And then we, when we redid the show in London and I remember Danny Hunt, who's a good friend, but he was a escapology magic consultant on that show and a brilliant Houdini aficionado and has got loads of collector stuff and you know, he, he, we, we hide the water tank from him and stuff and he said to us he's like oh, how many times are you doing it? I was like, oh, it'll probably be about seven, you know whatever 40 in Edinburgh. And then, uh, however many in London and he's like, oh, if you're doing it that many times, it will go wrong, just so you know. And it's like what do you mean? It's like, oh, well, you will, there will be one time when you can't get out. And it's like what? And he's like, oh yeah, it's just statistics, you know, you just have to. And he and true to his words, there was one show at Serra Zeta and it just, it just wouldn't open.
Speaker 2:And I was like, and it was at the point and I was quite naughty sometimes, as in I would you know, I'd be under for a minute and then I'd have to, and then a curtain would come down momentarily. And that's when I would do my I'd get, I'd get out, take a breath and then go back in, and then that would kind of come down and we'd kind of carry on for another 30, 40 seconds or something, and I wasn't able to take my breath because I couldn't get out in time. It just jammed and and I was like, oh dear, and we had to reveal, we had to reveal the method to the audience because I had to get out, and it was all you know. And we put lots of, you know, safety kind of signals in place and stuff in terms, so that the the other two who are on stage with me they could. They knew if it was genuine issue. And and there actually was. And it was like, oh yeah, it's, you can't, you never get used to it, like you're never gonna. And it was obviously. And then we realized why it happened. It had been to do with the way that the without giving method away, but the way that the tank had been stored the previous night because there was another show coming in and it meant that we'd have to do a last minute thing and some water was still left in and something had flexed. And anyway, we got it sorted and we knew what the problem was.
Speaker 2:But I remember, like danny said, it's like you can. You can plan for absolutely everything and it'll be the thing that you don't plan for which will be why it goes wrong. And then you'll think, okay, well, we've got hold of it and then something else could go wrong. But I remember the next, the next day, getting into the tank. The nerves were so real and of course it got.
Speaker 2:We got to a point because we've probably done the show a good 50 plus times by then and you know, it never felt normal going underwater in front of an audience because there's almost a reflex of once you're under, thinking, what if I do breathe now, or what if I want to breathe now, or or what if it will really? And you almost put pressure on yourself because you think, oh, but it's such a great theatrical moment this, don't, don't mess it up, don't feel like you want to breathe, you've got to stand. So there is pressure on you, even if you've done it a few times when you're underwater. But I remember getting in that night after it had gone wrong, thinking, oh, I hope that doesn't happen again and that just makes you panic, and then that's the worst thing to happen when you're about to go underwater. But I but that drama, that's the theater of it, and I and I remember Andy saying, andy Nyman saying he'd seen the show, and and I used to do a thing at the end of the show where I would do a kind of a speed almost like a sub trunk speed, getting back into the tank right at the very end of a speed, almost like a sub trunk speed, getting back into the tank right at the very end and, um, it felt nice and sort of like the circle was complete and like they would unlock the locks and get me out and stuff.
Speaker 2:And uh, and I, and andy afterwards said don't do that, don't do that. And he said, and I was like why is that? Because the tent, like the tension that you create from doing it for real, even though people know that I mean, suddenly I'm in a flash like there must be something kind of going on. He says, just don't, don't undermine it, just keep, keep it as a memory. And then he was obviously, of course he was right Cause he's a genius, and so we took it out actually after that, but he, yeah, he was right Cause it box of water.
Speaker 3:um, and the time that you got stuck, though, were you completely fine after that yeah, I was like.
Speaker 2:I was a bit like it's not very pleasant, you know, because you do panic, um, and I remember danny saying there's a tiny little air pocket right at the top and sim saying don't ever breathe that, don't try and don't try and breathe that air. And I was like why? And he's like just don't, just don't, um, because it's not. You should think that you haven't got it. Like don't, don't think that you've got that, because it's just not. And I and I and I realized I remember why. Because when I went to the top and thought, well, I can't get out, I'm going to breathe the air, the water's all going everywhere, and so you just like you're just like just breathing and splashing water and like it's just, it makes you panic more, and then you can't fight. It's like yeah, so yeah. But I should say an honorable mention actually, as we're talking about escapology I remember getting a set of chain release handcuffs, probably around the time when I um uh, got the chopka patch, like when I was like 12 or something, and again it was just one of my favorite things to do. So much inbuilt comedy in it, of course, given the nature of what it is, I mean, of course you could use it as a real thing and but but we had so much fun of mr swallow in particular, kind of getting in and out of it at speed and and and you know, and again, it's one of those things that feels absolutely impossible and sort of there sort of is and isn't a method, because the method is the set of apparatus that they can see and examine and you know they're it's, it's sort of obviously they don't see the particular move necessarily, but it does feel completely impossible and more so it's the. It's the getting back in that I love. Actually there's the kind of the handout and the giving the way, but then suddenly you're back. It's the speed of getting back in that I've almost like you see an audience kind of be like what and I love that. It's such a surprising thing. But yeah, so that little uh mention to, uh, to that, and I think again just to talk generally about escapology, and I guess you can extend the same to mentalism and I guess this sort of the, the faux memory stuff, in that it's the, it's that process or process or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2:It's that that you're enjoying the fake struggle in terms of escapology or the drama of, you're going to be hung upside down and this is on fire and the spikes here and this is happening. You know it's all of the, it's all that stuff around it. You know, if an escapologist escapes like that, there's nothing really. If an, even if a mentalist gets it like that, even though technically they should be able to, you know where's the drama and where's the tension, where's the. You know what makes it entertaining. And I think that that is why escapology is sort of in there, because there's so much fun to be had. And then when you then put comedy into it, then it's like oh, you can have so much fun, kind of with the back and forth, playing around with that tension, undermining it and then ramping it up again, undermining it, ramping it up again and then not undermining it, and actually suddenly becomes quite real. So I've, yeah, I love it for all those reasons.
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Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a great choice and, like you say, a curveball, but I like it, I like it very much, and that does take us over your halfway point. So now we're on to number five. What did you put in your fifth position?
Speaker 2:It's a really weird one. Flying Now, eye or levitation, anything that floats, basically, and I think it is, and I should say I don't really do any. I've done a floating table before, but I've never done, never done like performed, but like an illusion where I fly or anything like that. But and I and it look it, if I'm talking, if I'm being honest, I'm talking about Copperfield's flying, which is sort of iconic, obviously, and also has yet to be bettered. Um, and again, it goes back to that, that human thing of, of, uh, of, you know what, what does it mean to be a magician, or to perform magic, or what? What could that feel like? What does that mean you can do? And it, and it's that thing that almost takes you back to sort of childhood. You know, and, and I and I do, if and at any time you ever presented with that question, oh, you know what would your superpower be? And I'm saying this because, like, my kids would sort of talk about that now, but, um, flying would always be it because there's something. So, you know, and obviously humans we are obsessed with flight. You know the idea of like, oh, what would it mean to be able to just fly? And I just still find it magical when something floats, and it's not even sometimes, it's not even in a magic show. It could be in a piece of theatre where just something happens. Or I saw a great thing where just a glass of water just fell off the table, but it fell in like slow motion. It was really, really engrossing and just it just feels so as magical as something ever could be. There's no I I mean, of course we know there's probably a trick to it or there's wires or whatever, but it feels, um, it feels like it breaks down the laws of physics. Does this flying in a really simple, straightforward way. It's like this is a thing. I'm a magician, I can make that fly. Like that's like like earth shattering. That feels incredible to me and um, and joyful and like beautiful, like when it's done. Well, I mean that and again, that flying, so that I think it's um.
Speaker 2:The score that he uses, um, I think it's from a film called east, east of eden. I think it's called I've forgotten the name of the composer now. Um, and I, I still now get the kids and like kind of carry that and like, try and like recreate the emotions whilst trying to sing that. It's a hell of a workout, I must say, because they're old now, but but like um, I just that that upper field flying I remember seeing as a kid and just thinking that is absolutely glorious. And um, as I say, I've not done too much flying as in, I've never sort of I have been on wires for like tv work and stuff and in fact in a show I did last year I was playing like a sprite, so it was as if he could fly and so and it's really interesting because actually, even though when a harness isn't comfortable and stuff like that and they're not trying to hide the wires and stuff and it's, you're often in like a green screen box and there's cameras and stuff, and but it does feel like as real as obviously it could be as if you were flying, because you know you do that and you do take off and you go to height and you sort of think, god, it would be good if you could fly like it does.
Speaker 2:There is something really exciting about it and um, uh, and then when I see, yeah, and then when I, and then when I've seen like little things up close, I haven't got it. But what's that Levios, and what's the deck that now flies up and stuff which does look great and stuff and I don't know. It's just, it feels so organically magical, flying. Do you know what I mean? It's again a really simple thing to get. Um, there's no kind of okay, now count this onto that and I'll do this. Now, what color were you thinking? Then we'll move that onto that. It's just really like no, that's just flying, that's it, that's it. You got it. You understand why that is magical? Because there's gravity and we all know that gravity exists, and so it feels human. I think, uh, to be one, you know, have that moment of wonder when something flies yeah, it's another one as well, where there's no explanation needed.
Speaker 3:It's, it's just. It just is what it is and you can appreciate it transcends.
Speaker 2:it transcends language, it trans. You know adult children, it's just and done properly. You know just wonderful. And the floating table that I've got a lasanda table and and I love it and I put it together recently because I was going to do it on a, a show and then we didn't, they ended up, we didn't get, we had to. I can't really say what the show is, but they we ended up not getting to it and it was a shame actually because I was really looking forward to kind of playing around with it again.
Speaker 3:And it's actually quite scary because you're like, well, you don't want to drop that table because they're pricey, aren they? Yeah, that's a really, really good choice and just looking at your list so far, so we've got a memorized dick, a chop cup, um, out of this world. Water tank escape and levitation.
Speaker 2:I love how we've gone from very opposite ends of the spectrum here I'm trying to think, if I've the show that I'm doing, um, in, I'm doing, I'm doing a mr spoller Swallow show called A Christmas Carol-ish which is sort of his take on A Christmas Carol this Christmas at Soho Place and um, there's, there's a moment when a just a box flies up, you know a Christmas present, flies up right to the top, and even just that it's like feels like a lot of work, you know, to try and make that look right. I couldn't, you know, I don't even want to believe what it must take to get a person to fly around an auditorium and then somehow, you know, maybe get an audience member and fly with that. You know, they're just the mechanics of it, the going through hoops, jumping in boxes, I mean, like goodness me, I mean, but it looked perfect, it couldn't have looked any better when copfield did it, so I never saw it live. What it really, I guess and I only know this from doing the little bit of wire work for TV and film that I've done is the core strength to make one's body look like gravity doesn't exist anymore, because actually it's all very well being on a wire, but actually, you know, not every bit of your body is supported by a wire. You know you have to do so much work yourself to kind of make it look graceful and I say that as if I make it. I didn't make it, but when I, when I watch coppola and you sort of think crikey, you probably only it's like an athlete. You know, it's sort of you can only probably do that for a certain part of your life before either you have to come up with another method or you get someone else to do it. And so, yeah, what a phenomenal effect that is. Yeah, I love it, even even seeing.
Speaker 2:I remember going to see aladdin, um, whichever theater it was in the west end, um, back in 2017 or whenever it was there. And um, that flying carpet. Just the production was a bit shonky for my liking, but the flying carpet was just phenomenal. I just it was just wonderfully done and just, you know, I'd pay. I'd pay the ticket prices. Just see that in action. Because that was just, yeah, that's great. You've worked hard on that like you could like. Oh, yeah, money has been spent on making that look proper and then it comes in again in beautiful lighting, as in not not against like star cloth or anything like that, and I'm like I think that's a different method, because I don't know if you yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3:It all looked great, though loved it but you've just raised a really interesting point. There is one of those illusions which, uh, big budget shows have used. You know, wicked has alphabet flying most recently in um a wonderful musical called back to the future, the car levitation, and that is just yeah it's just yeah, but that just shows that that must be one of those illusions that are pulling in those audiences and that's what people want to see it's a big moment and again it goes just back to it.
Speaker 2:It's, it's and even you know we're doing christmas carol rehearsals at the moment just like it it becomes a big. You know we're just holding a christmas present and it, and it floats up right to the top and but it becomes a thing because it's like, oh, like it's that it's an element of built-in surprise to it, there's an emotion to it, there's like a weight to it and if you support it with music and other effects and things like that, it can, it can just be really, really wonderful.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, no, I love it, love it great well, an excellent choice, and it does bring us to your sixth choice. So what's in your sixth position? Are we going even bigger than levitation, or are we scaling it?
Speaker 2:no, we get well, we're going for something that might be a bit controversial. It's electronics, oh interesting. Electronics in mentalism, right, the thing is I'm a real sucker for them. I really like them, and maybe that's a naughty thing to say, but I, I love them. I absolutely. And look, I don't own tons, I own like three or four, um, but I just think that actually there is a time and a place for them.
Speaker 2:I think I've heard a lot of of brilliant literature from brilliant people say you know why, wouldn't you rely on a more, something more foolproof? You know, if you lose your Wi-Fi, if your battery goes down, if you do, do you really want that kind of hanging over you? But in my head I'm like and maybe this is just because I'm not that good a magician, really that that in my head is like, yeah, but what if I drop the deck of playing cards that are stacked? Or what if I misremember the thing or don't load the coin or don't put the ball in the, or I drop? So I sort of think well, you know, I. So I, I'm prepared to put up with some element of risk on something failing. And of course you can do all your pre-show checks and you know, there.
Speaker 2:I feel like with certain electron and you know it's not a one size fits all this, this, this answer but for certain gizmos I feel like actually they are worth their weight in gold when it comes to sometimes pre-show, um or uh, if I guess. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you know in advance that they have worked which often is in pre-show then that's great, that's absolutely fine, because no one knows about pre-show anyway, so it doesn't really matter. And also, if it does fail, then it doesn't matter, just do something else. You know, no one, no one has really been sacrificed for that and I just I think I think they get a bit of a bad rep because I think some people and you'll know this more than I do, but I feel like there might be a generation of magicians who possibly could take them for granted and have maybe been even introduced to mentalism, say, through these gizmos, and of course they do or can do often a lot of the hard work for you and therefore presentation can be a bit like secondary, because why do you really need presentation? Because now you can literally read someone's mind or literally know what numbers landed on the dice or whatever it is. But actually I think if you are, I think if you've done your dues and I think if you are combining your slides with your presentation or your performance or your character and supporting that with you, know these electronics, here or there, I think, rely, relying on them is one thing, but but then used in conjunction with stuff, I think it's an absolute gift and I think you can create some wonderful routines.
Speaker 2:And look, I think we've all been stung by electronics at one point and I remember doing a, a routine in a in an edinburgh show and actually, and in fact it's a wagon, it was the payoff to the wagon mama thing, um, uh, and the the I, I, I genuinely had memorized the wagon mama menu, um, I'd not memorized the prices but claimed to have. But I remember, but I, I'd sort of I knew roughly what they would be, because all the starters were roughly around the same, all the mazes, roughly. So I could do, and I had a force calculator involved in some of that. And I remember doing a final bit where I would introduce, like the giraffe menu and the hacker menu and something else and actually I was been, you know, uh, there was a gizmo involved that would then tell me the result of them adding up these different dishes from different restaurants and stuff, and it failed. I remember, I'm sure, and I remember thinking, ah no, that that's felt big and it was like, well, why did I rely on a piece of technology for the end, for the phase three of a thing which I'd only find out whether I got it right, live on that night, live like in play.
Speaker 2:And so since and you know what I've actually I say this as if I use electronics a lot as a hobbyist I will occasionally kind of get them out, but I've not really used them in shows so much. But I think if they're thought out within a routine they can be so useful. And I mean it'll sound like a plug, but it is just because it is phenomenal. But Christine Grace's Enigma, where you know, and it's an app which he has spoken openly about it being an app it just doesn't look like anything. All that that technology is doing is sort of giving you, the performer, kind of computational abilities which you wouldn't have because you're not a computer. And, um, you know, as far as an audience is concerned, they have zero idea that there's a phone in play or anything or anything like that. So I don't know. I think, used wisely, they can be a really, really good tool, and I just I do like them as little toys yeah, I'm with you there now.
Speaker 3:Everyone knows what I'm about to do. I'm about to play devil's advocate go for it which I do sometimes. I know that you just mentioned enigma, but let's say I was to give you one electronic effect. What would you be taken to your island specifically?
Speaker 2:oh, okay, yeah, well, I, I I back in the day. I remember getting multi-dimensional, um, which is the colored cube, um, oh, crikey, is it really? Is, I think, was it pro-mystical labco magic? I can't, it was a pro-mystic and I got that in. I want to say 2013, 2012 or something like that, and I was like, wow, this is like really powerful stuff.
Speaker 2:Like because I'd be doing cause, I'd be doing like gigs, um, uh, you know, working as a magician at that time and do weddings and stuff, and I'd get that out and God, you could have some fun with it. Like, I mean, people were like dazzled by it and, um, you know, it doesn't matter if it don't work at a wedding, just get out deck of cards and do something else. I mean, it's sort of it was relatively low pressure. I don't think I'd ever do it on stage, but that's a little gizmo, it's really fun and it did get a good old reaction. You know, I think there's no harm in that. It was just another tool, you know. So I think, yeah, multi-dimensional that, because that was my introduction really to anything. That's the first electronic thing that I ever bought.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, yeah, it's a great choice, um the nowadays they have the md mini from pro mystic, and there's another very cool gizmo, um, that connects up to it, um, and allows you to place a thought into someone's head. Um, people will know what that is as soon as I say oh, I know, is it the when you're touching the forehead one?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's the one I haven't.
Speaker 2:I haven't got there, but I've got a literature folder on my my uh laptop email folder. Just like, shove it in there, you know sort of, save up the pennies and maybe, if I'm lucky, maybe buy one of those. And you sort of think, and, and that's the other thing, it's a and, especially when you've done a few performances, you know and you're like looking for okay, well, I want to do a take on this, I want to take on that. It's just really fun thinking, oh, what would I do if I had the power to implant, like if mr swallow has the power to implant a thought in someone's head, I mean like what would that be? And then it just makes me really excited about, okay, well, the method. I don't need to worry about the method because there is a method. So now I can just think about the funniest sort of routine around that. And it will always be mad because it's all. Or I don't mean mad, I mean like kind of it will hopefully always feel different to the norm because it's mr swallow and he's all kind of you know, he's you know off in various directions. So I don't know. It always gets me excited when I see technology because I think, oh, that'd be fun, that'd be fun to play with.
Speaker 2:I'd even go so far as, whilst we're on controversial, so I'd even go so far as every single person in the audience, bar one audience member being a stooge, works for me from a theatrical experience for that individual. Pull out all the stops, do everything you can to create the most compelling experience. Of course, one doesn't need to go to those extremes, and it would be disappointing if you realize, oh, that's only. But also I'd be really impressed if someone did that. I'd be like, well, fair, fair dues. If you've given someone that experience, then that I I'm all for it. It's all part, and especially because there's no harm done and like you know, you know we're not broaching into communicating with the territory or kind of, like you know, psychic medium shows or anything like that. You know you're not using that device for a loved one from beyond the grave to talk to them. It's just, it's entertainment and there's nothing wrong with doing absolutely anything in the you know, in the realm of entertainment. You know everything is in our toolbox. I think.
Speaker 3:So that does bring us to the tail end of your eight tricks now. So we've gone from Memorize Deck Now we've just landed on the multidimensional, and now we're on to your seventh. So what did you put in your seventh position?
Speaker 2:Well, it is actually. It's mentalism-y, it's predictions. It's quite a bold, quite a broad choice. So there's not, yes, I you'll probably read devils. I've got enough me a particular one and it'll probably be a headline prediction. I would have thought there is something about prediction, so this is why it's on the list.
Speaker 2:There is something about the idea of saying I have, you know, this envelope, I have this, I have this thing and this contains a prediction of something that you are about to do or however you. However you dress it up again, that's so simple to understand. Like it just it's. And but what? Not only is it simple to understand, it almost feels like, well, you are giving the audience the opportunity to just scrutinize that envelope. Like it's like, well, you're telling me, you're telling me what's going to happen. Like you are, there's no element of surprise here. You're telling me that I will have predicted, or that you know, because you'll, even if you're not sort of setting it up as explicitly as that you will make a song and dance of. And this thing has been on show for the whole time and it always it's isolated in some way. There is, there is such a an effort made with a prediction to kind of you know, shroud it in all of that and I just think, again, it's just such a you know, often they again it kind of gets close to that. It's almost like too perfect. But it's just so wonderful, like how could you like? How, how there is zero explanation as to how you could have predicted those series of choices or that that headline would be that or that this would happen. I mean, it just feels so extraordinary and I remember I did, I, I do, I do a thing, um, which is from um, uh, so what book is it called?
Speaker 2:Um? There's a simon aronson book called try the impossible and um, there's a great principle in there called undo influence, and it's great. It's sort of a floating key card principle. All the simon aramson stuff is phenomenal, I love it. But, um, in that book try the impossible and and it and uh, effectively you end up um, it feels like a really free selection of two playing cards which are merely sort of cut to and looked at, uh, and then sort of replaced, and then the cards are kind of uh, uh, basically sort of shuffled, and the magician sort of like looks through them and then puts it down and then says um, where he believes what positions the cards to be at and they turn up at positions I think 19 and 36 are the ones I use and then you can prove that you've predicted that those positions, because they are actually, because of the mechanics of it, they are actually set. Um, you can set what those positions are in advance.
Speaker 2:And I remember doing a version where I I wrote down on like a, like a post-it or something, where I sort of believed these cards would end up. And it's a really interesting moment, that moment of like um commit, committing to something in front of an audience member and sort of almost telling them what you're going to do and putting it there before anything has happened, because it just, I don't know, there's something about it. I think it just really ups the stakes. Maybe. Maybe that's why I kind of really like it and um, and I think there's a reason why often predictions and mentalism shows or or bigger mentalism routines, because they do feel extra special for some reason.
Speaker 2:And you know, and they could be, you know they can be from relatively simple and small ones to ones that are, you know, a lot, a lot kind of bigger in the sort of size and scope and whether there's something being hung up on a ceiling and then dropped down or anything like that.
Speaker 2:But I yeah, I'm a real sucker for them and I remember even seeing, you know, copperfield sort of spray paint, one which is just almost too perfect, because I mean, even like the dodgy looking animal like looks exactly the same as like well, that I mean looks like a carbon copy, david, let's not give it away too much, but I don't know, I just, I just there's something really uh, finale about them. There's something really kind of like tada, about a prediction, and I think it's in the setting up and I think it's in the, the degree to which you're basically telling the audience what you're kind of going to do before you do it, and then it kind of happening and it's, it's, it's just a moment that kind of everyone can enjoy. So I yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 3:That's my seventh choice yeah, it's a great choice as well. Yeah, the impossibility of a prediction. I think that's that's what it is, isn't it? It's? It's a great choice as well. Yeah, the impossibility of a prediction. I think that's what it is, isn't it? It's highlighting? You know, all of these things are happening and it's all completely random, it's completely out of my control, and yet I still know it's going to happen that way, somehow.
Speaker 2:It's just the impossibility of it all which you can have, dispelling every single possible explanation as well, because you have set up your stall and your stakes are so high. You kind of you can be like and, and you know obviously Darren is an absolute master of it. But you know the, the, the, oh and and, and you know almost almost actually tipping the method and then sort of saying, but I couldn't have done this because X, y, z, and you know you can have so much fun with that and there are fun pieces of apparatus that you know do some of the work for you. But also you can just, you know you could do it with a simple switch. You know you can create such a huge moment out of it.
Speaker 2:And there are some lovely you know that lovely Ted Kamalovich thing where it's the description of the audience member who comes up to read out the prediction is the sort of the final and that's like you know there's so many lovely sort of how can we get one up on it just being a simple prediction. You know it's sort of predicting so many things and um it, uh. And there's a lovely I really like the devin knight glass box prediction as a method. I remember reading that manuscript a while ago and thinking that's really neat. And again, it's really straightforward, really straightforward. Um, and anti nyman put out one recently with tannins called. Is it called foresight or foretold, or something like that? I think it's foresight, which is a proper headline prediction that you post out to them in advance, and it's like, oh, wow, that's what, how is that gonna work? And yeah, yeah, a lot of inbuilt theater in that, of course, and and so, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3:Superb. Great choice, and it does sadly bring us onto your last item. So what did you put up there in your last position?
Speaker 2:I feel that these are getting more and more vague. But it is the concept of boldness, and what I mean by that is not just kind of boldness on the performers front, but the idea of a performer seizing the moment, like in the present, if something happens, so I guess it's being light on their feet. But also, I think we all will have had these experiences as performers. If you've performed a lot and not even a lot, but just you know where coincidences will happen or fortuitous things will happen, maybe the most, um, uh, if you've got I don't know a multiple out thing, the best one comes up and you're like and it sees it seizing on those opportunities, or even something as simple, as you happen to know that they've shuffled the cards and the bottom card is, I know, three of spades, and you just say name a card and they say three of spades and then just making the most out of those opportunities. And I feel I feel quite lucky actually that there have been a few actually happen where I've been like oh, this is like perfect, I don't need to do anything because actually just by chance, things have happened. And I think as a kid, I remember as a kid and I remember, even in like a magic competition, I remember as a kid there being a kind of a card, like a jumbo card thing, and I realized that they had said the card that was literally just facing me always in like the best position to achieve a certain thing and I was so like excited by it. I think I just burst out laughing and sort of gave the whole thing away and like didn't really seize on it in any kind of theatrically interesting way, but, um, but just really kind of making the most out of those. And um, because they can be so impactful, because the audience are literally like how on earth, and of course it can't be replicated. Well, it could maybe one in 2,500 times or whatever, but they can't be replicated. So they are unique to that one audience and they're unique to you. But to actually seize on them and not try and throw them away, cause it's so tempting to kind of be like so in the moment, so excited that all this thing has happened, but actually just making it, you know, just shifting your whole presentation to that one thing is great.
Speaker 2:And I remember reading and again, I mean, this is just about getting lucky and you can never be, you can't control it. But I remember, uh remember reading pure effect deron's book when I was a student, and um, there's a great it's not really relevant anymore because, because the currency has sort of changed but there was a great, um, was it a paul harris thing or uh, basically I shouldn't take the method you know, but like, anyway, there was, there was a particular day on a coin that would kind of come up sort of like more regularly than than not, and actually if you could get someone to maybe just sort of just get some loose change out of their pocket, sort of force verbally force a particular coin. But it felt very fair and actually the chances were you could probably know the date on that coin already. And I remember there'd been this particular table that I was working at a wedding and they were being a little bit difficult and they were trying to kind of catch me out quite a lot, and I sort of thought and I and it was the end of the night and I thought, oh, I'm just gonna just try this and even if it doesn't work, it doesn't really matter, because I think they've not really been that on board anyway and actually they'd probably rather see me fail, so I'll just do something. That was no, and it wasn't surefire. And I remember saying to the woman I said, okay, have you got any loose change? And she's like, yeah, she's like great. I was like, oh, and I tried to basically get them to take the 10p and they didn't. They just chose this like really old crusty pound coin and I was like I literally have no idea and I just and I was sort of half turned away, I knew that you got a pound I was like I mean, I just, I mean it is literally a guess. And I remember to this day saying, um, just focus on the year 1986. And they went mad because I got it right, but it was just like absolutely a guess because there was nothing else to lose at that point and it was just wonderful because it's like they will have no idea how that works because there isn't a method.
Speaker 2:And actually, even, um, I've been, uh, doing some work in progress for show pony, which is the show I'm doing next year. Um, I've been doing some work in progress for it, uh, last week, and I'm toying with like a lie detector routine and just sort of thinking and it's all through, mr swallow, um, but there are just a couple of bits in it where I am just sort of guessing. There's like a witch hand element to a bit of it and I actually it's just quite fun to guess, because a doesn't sort of really. I mean, I can get away with it as Mr Swallow to a degree anyway. Um, as long as it always ends with a pizzazz kind of moment, the stuff on the way, I can sort of just kind of I realize that actually you can just same with that. I'm doing a.
Speaker 2:I've got the mother of all book test, the shakespeare test, which I've been trying out in there as well, and a lot of the time I'm just sort of even deliberately getting it wrong or deliberately just sort of half guessing and actually it's.
Speaker 2:It's a really interesting thing to do, because an audience still sort of sit up and they're like what's going on here then because if there was a method you'd be getting it right. Right, and there is a method, but it's just choosing when or not to use it and I think, um, I guess that's sort of what I mean a little bit by boldness like it doesn't have to be as a hundred percent. I feel, as magicians, maybe certain magicians, you kind of have to be 100 and if you're doing a close-up paid gig at a wedding you can't be going unfairly. And you know, as I say, I can get away with a bit more through the persona of mrs waller being quite clumsy, but um, but yeah, boldness and sort of seizing the moment and being sort of present and trying to seize those opportunities, uh is my eighth position. I don't really know what tangibly that is on this island, but you know yeah, no, I think there's been quite a few tricks over the years.
Speaker 3:Uh, I know that peter turner had something early on with a credit card and the idea was that, um, they could take it out and you could tell them information about the car without actually seeing anything. Um, and that was purely knowledge. So it was just a random fact that maybe the general public didn't know on on large and, and he had that.
Speaker 2:Yeah know I love all that, yeah. So, yes, you're sort of using anything to your and I and I think it also plays a little bit into um, um there's a word for it and I can't remember what it is but I guess that kind of post-show memory of you know, the audience's memory of a routine or a trick or an effect, um and uh, and and, and actually using some of that to your advantage. So if they do say something that you know is fundamentally didn't happen during the routine, if they believe that it did, then you can absolutely reinforce that with everything that you say to them afterwards. I mean, there's no, it's just part of the same experience and it's a wonderful thing really.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a great list. We've gone all the way from Memorize Deck, chop Cup Out of this World Water Tank went big there. Levitation Electronics, specifically the MD Predictions, and then Boldness. So that's a wonderful, wonderful list. But it does make me excited for your two curveball items. So obviously you've had eight of all of these. Now you're only allowed one each of them, so you have one book and one non-magic item that you use for magic. So what are you going to go for? Your book position?
Speaker 2:uh, it is, uh, notes from a fellow traveler. Actually it is darren's book and I feel I'm such a god, I'm such a fan, and I sort of feel, um, you know, almost too much of a fan sometimes because you know, I do know him a bit now, darren, and like, but I just he's just so knowledgeable and like we will. Obviously everyone knows how much of a legend he is, but I even still think that we possibly don't appreciate just how incredible he is and his whole team and you know, and the amount of work and the amount of stuff that they have. You know, every single show is just sort of rammed full of so many gems and subtleties and tricks and routine, just like everything is an absolute zinger. And even if he stopped now and you know, don't he's got any plans to stop now look at that body of work. It's phenomenal and I really loved I. Actually the reason why I love notes from fellow traveler and I'm yet to reread it, but I will is that, um, it's just such a phenomenal you know true ties of someone as an entertainer going on every night, almost irrespective of the fact that he's a mentalist. I just found it fascinating the idea of someone you know, reading about sort of how someone kind of keeps the show fresh, how someone um stays healthy and kind of keeps it feeling exciting for them. And I actually genuinely found it because I was touring it's the first time I'd ever toured um with the Mr Swallow, the um I can't remember what it's called the best and worst of Mr Swallow last year and um, and honestly I was reading that book sort of, as I was sort of touring at the same time, so this kind of odd parallel and just I remember thinking god, like even that book was just rammed full of like little tips of sort of keeping it fresh and I was sort of able to put some of them in play and and I could, and I remember even the producer commenting on oh, it's really interesting that you sort of change the rhythm of how you deliver that usually and how you approach that bit at the end and I was like I'm literally just reading darren's and actually it was making a really positive difference and I think it's a phenomenal um piece of you know, I would kind of give it to any performer, whether they're an actor, singer, musician or something, because I think it's a really important um, uh, just piece of work that sort of I don't know just sort of gets to the nuts and bolts of what it is to be someone who is going out and performing every night and and how. That learning experience is such a kind of positive feedback loop that you kind of you out dude again, you learn from that, you kind of put that in and you kind of and and you sort of repeat, but it's sort of constructive and yeah, I just found it.
Speaker 2:I think I had also never really read. I remember reading um, a book called magic and showmanship when I was quite young that I remember over put out maybe or something. I mean I'm talking years ago, like in the 90s, and um, and that you know, I remember finding it a bit boring actually, because as a kid you just want to read tricks, um, and I was like I'm not really bothered about that stuff. Um, like in my head I was like just smile. Like in my head it's like that's all. That's all you need to tell me just smile when you perform.
Speaker 2:Um, and obviously I was very ignorant then.
Speaker 2:Um, and I whereas I know I've not actually really prioritized reading much about performance, um, whereas this I was like, oh, my eyes are fully wide open now to so many stuff that I'd either, you know, not been paying attention to or had been taken for granted, or had just overlooked or dismissed, and actually all of that stuff was equally as important, if not more so, than the, the jokes or the tricks or the, the routines. It's just stuff to kind of just keep it feeling, and that's just that one thing of staying present, and it ties a little bit back into the kind of that boldness thing that we were talking about before. But just staying present and trying to communicate everything to your audience and treating it like it's their first time. You know that it's their first time seeing this material, hearing this material, and, you know, really communicating that to them and not just trying to deliver a sort of performance or something. Uh, I just found it. Yeah, I found it really compelling, so that would be my book yeah, great choice.
Speaker 3:And again, you know, I hope that it's one that we have going forward more. But we have had it a few times and everyone just says there's. There's so many moments of realization in it. I think there are so many moments where maybe you read something and you go oh, my God, I get it. That makes so much more sense than what I'm doing now. Why don't I just try it?
Speaker 2:And it's sort of like of course Darren can say this because he's literally done thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of hours of performance in front of so many people and it's. You know that of course that's not to be sniffed at, it goes without saying, but it's easy to forget that like what that level of experience must sort of like. It's it's absolute gold, isn't it? And there there are so few people, I think. Who can, who can, I guess, write about that and in a typically Darren way and it's, it's witty and it's full of really fun anecdotes and stuff like that. But but who can speak with such authority on it? Because they have literally been there and done it or not even done it, they're doing it. I mean he was writing that as a journal right as he was touring, so it felt so refreshing as a reading experience. But yeah, I mean I'm not surprised it's chosen a lot, but yeah, that would be my, my go-to excellent, what a great choice.
Speaker 3:And it does bring us onto the curve curveball item. So this is your non-magic item. What did you go for?
Speaker 2:CD player, cd player and all my CDs. So I am a big CD fan. Still, I bought a lot of CDs, I guess, when I was a student A lot of soundtracks and a lot of kind of neoclassical stuff and a lot of orchestral stuff, and you can probably see them sort of down there. But basically I listen to them all the time. When I'm writing, when I'm reading scripts, I just always will have on something in the background. I listen to John Williams at least once a day and I I couldn't live without that side of music. That music is everything, even though I don't live without that side of music like that, that music is everything, even though I don't.
Speaker 2:I used to play quite a lot in orchestras and stuff and and my wife and I met through an orchestra, but we we don't have as much time to play at the moment with three little kids, but music is still such a huge part of our lives. She's an amazing pianist and viola player and, um, I play violin. I mean, I try and play violin and she's a lot better than me, um, but uh, we still love it and um, yeah, I listen to music all the time and that would be. I would never get bored if I have this cd and you know there's quite a few cds here, so it's like a lot to choose from but I will never, ever get bored of um listening to those cds which I've listened to, you know, forever, you know, since I was like 18, 19. Some of those, those CDs I've had now so I love it. That would be my curveball.
Speaker 3:Well, we've seen lots of that in your work as well. Obviously, you've got the orchestra sketch and then, of course, you've got your Jurassic. Park song which is hilarious as well, so you can see those influences coming in all the way through as well, and is that something that you do a lot in your shows? Then do you put a lot of music in there?
Speaker 2:uh, yeah, I mean, I guess increasingly yes, I, I have been and you know where it feels right. But you know, you know music is one of those things which is so you can really lift um things with music. And you know we're talking about that flying illusion, copperfield and like a lot of Copperfield stuff. I guess it's so enhanced by often quite filmic scores that he uses, because music is such a great way of storytelling and communicating ideas and stuff. And so, yeah, I loved it. There's something really invigorating about listening to music. I particularly like film schools, but when I listen to film schools and I'm writing stuff for tv or film, it's actually it feels quite inspiring because it feels like I can sort of try and create some of that atmosphere, albeit in my head.
Speaker 3:But yeah, well, that's a great choice for your non-magic item. So thank you so much again. Now, if people want to find out I know that you mentioned you have a show coming up at christmas is that something that people can find out about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course it's called A Christmas. If you go onto acristmascarolishcom, it's at Soho Place in the West End from 16th of November till the end of the year. So that is that. And then if you go to nickmohammedlivecom, it'll have all the information for next year's Mr Swallow Tour, which is called show pony, which is going across the country. I think you can also. I think that'll also point you to a christmas carolish as well, to be fair. But nickmohammedlivecom, or a christmas carolishcom or I'm on twitter and instagram, so you know they'll be there somewhere thank you again thank you for giving us your time, nick.
Speaker 3:It's been amazing to talk to you and to discover all of your tricks and to see the joy and passion that you have for magic as well.
Speaker 2:Well, as I said at the start, an absolute pleasure. It's been really nice and fun to just sort of think about why I like these tricks and what they mean to me and stuff, and so, yeah, what a wonderful show this is. I will you know I've pretty much devoured every episode now anyway. So I will you know I've pretty much devoured every episode now anyway, so I will. But there's other ones I'll kind of go back to and listen to again, I'm sure. So yeah, Well, amazing.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much again, and thank you guys for listening. Now, don't forget, we do have stranded with a stranger now and that's your opportunity to send in your list on Monday. Then do send in your list of eight tricks, one book and one non-magic item to sales at alakazamcouk and we will get one of those out. Don't forget to put in the subject line my desert island list. That way it comes through to me. But with that being said, thank you guys again. Please do go check out Nick's stuff. Like I said, mr Swallow, you will have many, many laughs watching through the archive of footage that's online with that. Also some of his sketches. They are superb. Please do go check out some of those tickets as well. I will definitely be going to the Christmas one and most definitely going to see the Mr Swallow one next year, so do go check that out. Please give all of our guests support in any way that you can and, with that being said, thank you very much. We will see you again soon on another episode of desert island tricks.
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