Desert Island Tricks
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Desert Island Tricks
Chris Mallon
Welcome to the darker side of magic with Chris Mallon, the mastermind behind Strange Stage, a company redefining the world of bizarre magic props and mentalism. Chris shares the childhood magic of Christmas mornings that sparked his journey into the realm of bizarre magic and his subsequent rise in the magic community since 2017. From the creation of the Carney Billet Box to collaborations with iconic figures like Pete Turner, Chris's work is setting new standards in magical innovation and storytelling.
In a heartwarming segment, Chris reflects on his beloved Tenyo Crystal Cleaver and Dynamic Coins, magic tricks that hold deep personal significance and have shaped his magical journey. We explore how these tricks serve as powerful tools for Chris, an self titled introvert, allowing him to break the ice and share his passion for the craft. The journey continues with the evolution of the Carney Billet Box, a hands-free mentalism marvel inspired by the Amazebox, and its impact on live performances.
Our conversation takes a thrilling turn as we traverse the dark and immersive aspects of theatrical magic, featuring captivating illusions like Keith Hart's "Slasher" and Chris’ mysterious use of darkness. Throughout, Chris emphasises the power of thoughtful scripting and emotional resonance, inviting listeners to experience the dark wonder of his magical creations.
Chris’ Desert Island Tricks:
- Crystal Cleaver
- Dynamic Coins
- Amazebox
- Jazz Mentalism
- Rex Ignis
- The Hidden
- Sefalaljia
- Slasher
Book. Notes From a Fellow Traveller
Item. Tarot Cards - Reposition-able glue
Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
But yeah, the reason that I've gone for this is because it's genius and because it's the closest thing to real magic that I can envision in my head, and I'll explain what I mean. So, basically, I was a kid, about eight or nine, and I got this in my stocking on Christmas morning and this was the first magic thing I ever got. Would you know what I meant? If I said Christmas is a feeling, it's because I think I would have called it nostalgia before. But I was talking to Rhys Goodley recently and he said, no, christmas is a feeling, just like you know happiness, sadness, anger. It's different for everybody but fundamentally probably the same. But yeah, it gives me that feeling, that nostalgia of childhood, real magic.
Speaker 1:And again, I was obviously opening this in my stock and ripping the paper off stuff, and you would usually do that as a kid and you'd be like right, that's done, let's get downstairs to the good stuff. But I didn't. I. I opened this whole thing up, I sat and played with it, was absolutely floored by how it worked still am, to be fair, I think that's again, it is just a wonderful piece of apparatus and, yeah, like I said, that was the first magical thing I've ever owned as a child.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. Things are going to take a darker turn today, because we have a guest that maybe you've not heard of at the moment and those who have heard of him definitely know him for a certain reason, and that's because he tends to produce some really incredible high quality, bizarre and mentalism items. Now, when I say that they're high end, I really do mean he takes considerable time in creating these pieces. I've actually seen one of the pieces that he's got coming out shortly, which is absolutely phenomenal, and if you're a fan of things like spirit bells or spirit glasses, you're going to absolutely love this, and I know that they're just going to sell to the Bizarre's community like hotcakes. They are absolutely incredible.
Speaker 2:So, before he's even on, before he's even on, I'm hoping for at least one dark effect going on here. It could go either way, though. It could go either way, so we're not sure. But his company, strange stage, is a company that you're going to hear about a lot more coming forward. Um, we can't tell you any more than that at the moment, but, uh, suffice to say he's a great performer. The attention to detail he puts into his products is always top notch um, and I guarantee his list is going to be very interesting. So, with that being said, today's guest is the wonderful Chris Mallon. How are you doing, chris?
Speaker 1:I'm good, thank you. That was a very kind introduction, so thank you.
Speaker 2:I have two of your pieces on my shelf next to me and both of them are just incredible. They're real talking points, especially one of them because there's a vood talking points, especially one of them because there's a voodoo doll inside one of them, um, so it always gets an interesting reaction when people see it on the shelf. But what got you into creating the bizarre pieces?
Speaker 1:so I guess I'm relatively new to magic, um, so I started this in 2017. Um, I did my first pilot show show in December 2017, so we really are on the sort of verge of that seven year thing. My first stage show came about a year afterwards, in 2018, and it was basically a desire to do my own props for that show. So the first thing that I did was just a pack of alphabet cards, which I think you do have some. I made them for the show. A few people saw them on social media and asked if I would recreate them, so I decided to do like a batch. So I did a batch of those with the routine from the show and was very surprised at how well they sold, and I guess it went from there.
Speaker 1:So the next stage show that I did props got a little bit more elaborate. I won't tell you exactly what the prop was, because it's one of my choices, not that it's my thing, it's the thing that got me into making something else. I wouldn't be that egomaniac to obviously do my own thing, but yeah, it would spoil it. But yeah, suffice to say I did some props and again, they went down well as well. And then we got to February 2020, which was my second show, second stage show, and then the world stopped. So I had a lot of time to think and write and build. So my first physical prop was in December 2020 and that was something called Christmas presents and that's presents, not presents might see what I've done there, you see, yeah, and again, they again sold out really well, I made that a limited thing over the next three years. I I did 12 every Christmas and, yeah, again surprising at how, how fast people bought them and how fast they sold out.
Speaker 1:And then the next part I guess it got serious. When I met Pete Turner at a convention, I had a prop with me which was a prototype for something that I called the Carney Billet Box, which I know you've heard about as well. He told me that he loved it and he very kindly said I'm going to make a video for you. And what I was expecting is the sort of habitual pointing at the box sort of thing. You know, the sort of this is great 30 second video. But he didn't. He did a full 45 minute video basically explaining all the nuances, how he uses it. He came down and even filmed a trailer, because there was a circus where I live, which sounds weird. But we went to the circus to film this thing because this box is all about a 1930s travelling carnival and circus and that sort of stuff. So yeah, that got some headway on the old socials and a couple of years later I thought let's do this for real. And here we are first year of strange stage and why is it bizarre?
Speaker 2:like what, what? What is it about the bizarre concept that grabbed you?
Speaker 1:I have always been interested in spooky stuff. I almost said a swear word there. Then I remembered what you said. Spooky stuff is what we'll call it Since I was a kid. And yeah, I'm fascinated with the whole sort of spiritualism, movement, monsters, you know, the sort of universal monsters and things like that. So it just kind of made sense. I don't see myself as a magician. Still I would probably say I was an entertainer that used magic. So a lot of my performances and even magic pieces it's more the idea first than what it does magically come second, if that makes any sense so.
Speaker 2:So we're going to see a very interesting list, I think. Now we've had a couple of darker performers on, obviously. We've had Terry Tyson, who gave us a great episode. We had Kenton Knepper, who had a couple of sort of bizarre effects on there. Even Luca Volpe, who, of course, had a couple of interesting items on there. Even luca volpe, who, of course, had a couple of interesting items on there. So, yeah, it's going to be really interesting to see where your list goes now. If you haven't heard one of these before, the idea is that we're about to maroon chris on his skull infested island. Uh, when he's there, he's allowed to take with him eight tricks, one book and one non-magic item that he uses for magic particulars. Who's there? How we got there? All that sort of stuff, it really doesn't matter. It's basically the list of tricks that he could not live without. With that being said, we're going to find out what's in your first position. So, chris, what did you put in your first position?
Speaker 1:I'm just going to say the first thing and you'd be like what I'm going to say the crystal cleaver by tenure, which is probably I don't know, it's probably as least bizarre as you can probably get, although what I should probably say is bizarre doesn't always mean scary, it just means that there's a good story driven routine. So I guess any prop could be, any magic trick could be turned into that. But yeah, the reason that I've gone for this is because it's genius and because it's the closest thing to real magic that I can envision in my head, and I'll explain what I mean. So, basically, I was a kid, about eight or nine, and I got this in my stocking on Christmas morning and this was the first magic thing I ever got. Would you know what I meant?
Speaker 1:If I said Christmas is a feeling? It's because I think I would have called it nostalgia before. But I was talking to Rhys recently and he said, no, christmas is a feeling, just like you know happiness, sadness, anger, it's. It's different for everybody but fundamentally probably the same. But yeah, it gives me that feeling, that of childhood, real magic. And again, I was obviously opening this in my stock and ripping the paper off stuff, and you would usually do that as a kid and then you'd be like, right, that's done, let's get downstairs to the good stuff. But I didn't. I. I opened this whole thing up, I sat and played with it, was absolutely floored by how it worked still am, to be fair, I think that's again.
Speaker 2:It is just a wonderful piece of apparatus and, yeah, like I said, that was the first magical thing I've ever owned as a child yeah, so it's one that we've we've had mentioned a couple of times from from different people and it it is one of those that a lot of people do get it when they're younger and there is that nostalgia for them. But I do also just think it's a super clever effect and I think that's what grabs some performers. I think it's the cleverness of the method which still makes it engaging for someone who is just getting into magic at an older age.
Speaker 1:Bearing in mind this would have been marketed as a as a kid's toy. I think my mom would have bought this from toys, arrows or something it wouldn't have been from like a magic shop, um, and I know. I've seen different versions I've been tempted to get. I think there's one that's made out of solid wood, but it's just the original one. I have it in my living room. I've literally got it in a glass cabinet with all my magic and bizarre stuff. You've just got that 10-year thing in there, the purple rectangular cover, because that's what I see and that's what gives me that sort of Christmas feeling.
Speaker 2:Well, we were definitely not expecting the Christmas feeling in your first position. That's nice and interesting. So what did you put in your first position? So that's nice and interesting. So what did you put in your second position?
Speaker 1:I just wanted to say that. Another thing about the effect is that a lot of in bizarre things you want stuff that you can look at and get people asking you questions about, and I always say to myself that I always feel like I'm an extrovert trapped in an introverted mind, so I like to be the person that is asked about something. I could never be the person that goes over and says, hello, I'm Chris, at a table at a wedding or something. That would be my worst nightmare. So I like props that people ask what's this, and then that gives me permission to kind of to show it, which is another thing that I love about the uh the crystal cleaver, because it just kind of draws an intrigue, but it's, you know, it's in the cabinet. People will point to it and ask what it is, and that gives me the uh the go-ahead to show them yeah, it's great.
Speaker 2:It's a good point, and the fact that you said that it's, uh, surrounded by your bizarre props um, I'm guessing it's the only brightly coloured thing there, so that in itself is quite bizarre, great. So what did you put in your second position?
Speaker 1:Again, it does get bizarre. I promise it gets bizarre towards the end. But for second position we're going for the dynamic coins. So again, this is a trick that had to have a place on my list. It was the first trick that I was ever shown in person by a magician. So that magician happened to be a young and up-and-comer called michael murray who was working in a shop called the magic box. So I'm about a about an hour away from newcastle. So if it was ever my birthday which I suppose it tended to be at least once a year and I had birthday cash, we would go to Newcastle or the Metro Centre to spend the money. I guess and I wasn't massively into magic, I've got to say as a kid this was probably I'd have been about 10 at this time, but I was massively into horror, um, surprisingly. So this is getting a little bit horror-y. There we go. We can add a bit of horror into this story.
Speaker 1:I went in to look at the horror masks. So I love collecting all the old, all the old masks, um, you know, from Universal, monsters, hammer Horror, that sort of stuff, interestingly as well. My parents would usually tape that stuff and I would have been a lot younger, I'd have been like seven, maybe eight. They would tape all the sort of Boris Karloff, all the later Christopher Lee stuff, and then they'd let me watch that as a young child, which probably isn't acceptable these days, but in the 90s fine, absolutely fine, to let your six-year-old child watch vampires. So I go, I go in there to look at the masks. I also collected jokes as well. Proper weird kid, I don't know why. Um, I wasn't playing the jokes. I never opened them and thought like, okay, let's put that whoopee cushion under there, all those garlic sweets. I never did that, it was just like I collected them.
Speaker 1:I again, like I said, weird, but michael was at the counter showing magic tricks and the dynamic coins was one of the ones he was doing. I saw it and I thought to myself I need to be able to do that. Not necessarily I need to know the method, but I need to be able to do what this guy is doing with that trick, because if I have that, I will be able to show all my friends and be this amazing person that can make these 10 pences appear from underneath the brass cup. I guess it is. Um, yeah, that's, that's. It's got to be on the list just for that. Again, it's a nostalgia moment, but it's an important one. I think it's quite a profound moment as well, not not just in magic, but in my actual life seeing this and thinking like I think I want to do that. Yeah, it's quite a profound moment as well, not not just in magic, but in my actual life seeing this and thinking like I think I want to do that yeah, it's again.
Speaker 2:It's one that we've had quite a few times on on the podcast. But I think that as performers, we maybe we overlook some of the tricks that we saw when we were younger and sometimes we dispel them as you know, kids tricks or whatever but it's such a clever trick, it's such a clever routine, it's such a clever idea the fact that it's an effect that has gone for years and years and has influenced so many performers. So many of us remember seeing that when we're younger and it still sticks with us. I think it's absolutely one that should be on anyone's list because it's superb. Well, this, this fooled adults.
Speaker 1:I remember as a 10 year old child being able to show grown-ups and them not having a clue what I was. I think my dad got very upset when I wouldn't tell him how it was done, so I had to buy him one. I was only a few years ago. I actually got him one for christmas as a little present, which he was doing all of Boxing Day. But I do use it differently now to what I did as a kid.
Speaker 1:I do advocate picking up a trick and trying to use it in a different way. Use it as a bar bet. So you would basically bring out the two caps and a stack of 10 pences. I won't go into how we can switch those 10 pences for the gimmick, but it would be very easily because you would just do this under the table. But you put them under the table in the guise of shuffling them, bring out the two caps and then it's a 50 50 chance game. So one of the caps has 10 pences under it, the other one doesn't.
Speaker 1:It's a 50 50 choice and they always get it wrong. Because you're in control, um, you don't need to use the, the ring that comes with it. If you're in control, you don't need to use the ring that comes with it. If you're careful, you can easily show that either of those has the 10 pence under or one of them doesn't. And if you want to go a bit mad and buy two sets, then you can have four caps on the table and the ending that I do is they get it wrong again. But then you show that you put 10 pences under the other three so that it was only a one in four. So then you show that you put 10 pences under the other three so that it was only a one in four. So yeah, it's a nice way of members using it.
Speaker 2:That isn't its intention yeah, I've never, ever heard of anyone using it like that. That's really interesting. I love the idea of yeah, being in control of the outcome. That's a really clever way of using it. Yeah, that's great. It's a great choice in second position and it does lead us nicely onto number three. So what did you put in your third position? So?
Speaker 1:this is where it starts getting again. It's not bizarre, but it starts to pick up from here, I promise. So I'll just go out and say it. I'm going to go for the Amazebox by Mark Shortland.
Speaker 1:I think there's an ideology I was going to say in magic magic, but it's mainly in mentalism that props should be invisible. I don't know if invisible is the word non-consequential, this shouldn't be important, I guess is what I'm saying, and you've probably heard people like pete turner say when he's giving you a pen or paper, he'll take this and take that and he won't mention them. And then, likewise, michael murray does the whole and jot something down. It doesn't even say the word right, so it's again just making them meaningless things that you're using to achieve something else. But I would say in bizarre, the opposite can be true, so the prop can be the whole showcase of the entire act. As you'll know yourself, in bizarre, um, I'm not saying the method, um shouldn't be invisible. 2019 comes, which is why I didn't mention this before. Uh, I wanted not saying the method shouldn't be invisible. 2019 comes, which is why I didn't mention this before.
Speaker 1:I wanted to use the Amazebox as part of a show I was doing, but it was a very popular thing. I never had the first one. I got the black one first and then the craft one, which I think is probably the most popular one. If you went onto any social media and typed in mentalism show, you would most likely see one of these on a stage because it was that popular, which is a testament to how good the thing is that I think most mentalists will have used this at some point in their life. Um, but I wanted something that was my own, that was different, that wouldn't be recognizable from from the craft amazebox. So I customized one I, and it was probably the first incarnation of of what the carny billet box would have been, because it was the same sort of design on it. I posted this on the amazebox owners group and it blew up. People were asking me whether I could make one for them, whether I could. Then I was just sending out the files. But yeah, of course, there you go, you. You stick them on and you sandpaper away, maybe put some ink on and age it up. But yeah, I think that that was the first sort of variant of the carny box, and then that became the thing because people were asking about it and then that I think to me the amaze box. I'm just trying to think how to word this.
Speaker 1:The the amaze box is just a box. It's a box that you hand around to the audience and they just so happen to put in the pieces of information or what it is that they've been writing down, goes into this non-consequential box and then it's used in whatever method it needs to be, whereas mine was anything but invisible, I would say. I think that mine was a centerpiece. It had to be put center stage and your whole show could have been centered around this prop, which was great.
Speaker 1:But then I had the idea of well, I needed to look more the part, because it is still cardboard. So that's when I decided to make one out of wood and I had to change the method or methods, I should say, because a very different design. But now you have this wooden box on the stage where pieces of paper are put inside, but you've got the brass handles and the brass feet and stuff and it's all aged up and that is why the Carnie box came into existence. So I think without the Amaze box then you probably wouldn't have had the Carnie Billet box. So I owe it a massive gratitude. Plus, it's a wonderful thing.
Speaker 2:I mean, it is literally, no pun intended, an amazing prop but I also think the fact that the amaze box allows for such a hands-free approach to the performance really is what makes it stand out above most other versions of it. The fact that the spectator opens that box without any interference by the performer makes it so much more fair, clean and uh, non-backtrackable is the nicest way of putting it.
Speaker 1:And that's what I wanted. I wanted something that did the same thing, but you could tell the whole story around it. I've said before that I'm not the most forthcoming sort of person, so I would. Essentially, the prop tells the story. It is a little bit sort of maybe it's Derren Brown, where you introduce a pseudo story to justify why and what you're doing, if that makes sense. But I think it's a brilliant safety net to have, especially if you're not the most confident person, which I'm definitely not.
Speaker 1:So it's making the performance more about a demonstration of what other people would do and you're just simply demonstrating and showcasing. So you're not saying I'm amazing, I'm doing something, it's just, this is what they would have done in the 1930s traveling carnivals, and it's the prop is telling the story. And it was that that Pete Turner saw at the convention, which is why I didn't mention it before. That was what he did the whole video on. But yeah, I think without the Carney billet box then strange stage maybes wouldn't have occurred. So it's all a kind of spiral back to that Amaze Box. So I do owe it a massive thank you to being a brilliant prop and to inspiring me to make something else from it, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great, great prop and it's one, like you say, say a lot of people are gonna have have it, and if you don't have it, it's just a great tool to have for when you do need it, um, or when you know when you're developing a show. But it does lead us nicely into a number four. So what did you put in your fourth position?
Speaker 1:well, we are still not into bizarre, I'm afraid, but we have jazz mentalism by dav David Humphrey. Now, I was first introduced to this in Michael Murray's A Piece of my Mind book. He did a DVD as well, which if you read this you might be like what? But if you watch him do it on Submodalities, I think it is. It's just, it explains it so well and it's a brilliant thing to have on you If you ever get asked that question.
Speaker 1:And this is why I learned it and this is why I practice it. It's because if you ever get the question, can you show me something? This is my go-to. This is what I do, even if I don't have anything on me. I usually will. I'll usually have the six well, a set of six in my wallet, or my EDC, as the cool kids call it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, if you've got business cards, you can just make your own on the fly. They don't even need to be ESP cards. I guess they could just be any symbols that you want to match up. It's really versatile and, dare I say, you could use it with playing cards if you needed to and you didn't have anything else, or tarot cards even. But yeah, you could just make your own on the on the spot. If you only had pieces of paper and a pen, um, I should say, as well, I don't mark mine. Um, if people think like, yeah, but how would you mark those on the spot, well, I don't.
Speaker 1:So the way I do it um, I know the way michael does it is his card goes down, face down, spectators goes face down. If anybody that doesn't know what this is, I should probably actually say it it's a, it's a match-up effect. Just in case you you've never heard of jazz mentalism or you know it is something else, because there has been a lot of variations and the different names. Um, so, yeah, it's a match-up effect, usually done with esp cards. Yeah, so you would basically put one card face down and they'd put one face down and at the end they should all match up. The way I do it is I put mine face down and they put theirs face up, because there's no need for them to do it because you're putting yours down first. So it makes more sense for me to just say, yeah, put yours face up. So no markings needed and my eyesight is terrible, so it it's a win-win for me to just say, yeah, put yours face up, so no markings needed and my eyesight is terrible, so it's a win-win for me.
Speaker 2:So there are lots of ESP matchups. Why this one?
Speaker 1:This one is just the simplest and most versatile for me and if you do this on lay people as well, the reactions it gets is just astounding. Even, yeah, and, like I said, that's why it's my go-to effect if someone asks me to do something Like I know, if you want to up the chances, you can use Pete Turner's script that he uses. So he's actually got like a psychological pattern which psychologically influences them to go for one. So the first one you would say go for which one you recognise as your favourite, and because of all these weird symbols, they're most likely going to go for the star. Second place goes to the wavy lines that I've often found. But yeah, it just seems like again, like it's a real influence technique and I think to the layperson watching it as well, it just comes across as impossible.
Speaker 2:I think to the layperson watching it as well, it just comes across as impossible. If anyone hasn't done an ESP matchup, like you rightfully said, it does get really good reactions, but that does bring us nicely onto a number five. So what did you put in your fifth position?
Speaker 1:So for the fifth position, this is where I'm going electronics. So when I use electronics, I normally have contingencies on top of contingencies, in case something goes wrong, like you might do, um, but I should say right off the bat I don't have a contingency for this and I use this in my actual stage show. I have a spare battery for it. I don't know, I'm just thinking. We're on a desert island. So is there electricity? Who knows? But oh, is there even an audience? I'm not even sure. But you could use this thing to keep your hand cool, because I'm talking about rex ignis by paralabs, which is going on my fifth position.
Speaker 1:To me, this is just an ingenious thing. I don't even know how a mind can even think, hey, do you know what you could do? Like it, just it, just I can't fathom it. So, like I said, I use it in my show, damn final. It's a good thing to have, it really is. And if you don't have it, I would suggest picking one up because it's just amazing. Although if you're going to do it, so I use it in conjunction with something else.
Speaker 1:Um, so I use a real psychological technique and use the rexicness to strengthen the belief in what I'm doing, if that makes sense. So you have to be careful not to just use things as a quick trick and again, as I said before, I massively advocate that you take your time, you think about your script and what you're trying to achieve. It's an amazing thing, but I wouldn't say, okay, just put your hand over there, now it's hot and now it's cold. Now it's hot, because that would be a bit rubbish if that was what you were doing. So, yeah, that's again, it's not really my place to offer any advice, but if I was, that was going to be it, but it just happened when I was coming up with the stage show that this piece of apparatus fits something that I was trying to achieve, so I use it to, like I say, emphasize something that is real and emotional, and it worked out perfect for that yeah, it's a great routine and there have been different versions of it, I think.
Speaker 2:Um. So very early on they had one that, without giving too much away, would be required. It required a table. There you go, that's the nicest way of putting it, um. And then they developed it into a wearable version and now, uh sorry, they also have a version which hides inside, uh, an everyday carry um. And now they have the version that I presume you use, chris, which is you light the candle with a match is the nicest way of putting it without giving too much away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I see a lot of posts, especially on their own group, about people trying to hide a particular thing. You really don't need to. I have done this close up and not once has anyone questioned the gimmick, the thing that's actually making this work not once. And you feel so guilty about doing it when it's right there and it's like. The best I've ever got was someone saying I think the candle might be electronic. Can you make that?
Speaker 1:Go on and off and then picking it up and realizing it is just a candle and then just having nowhere to go now in the show, uh, what we do is we we close the first half, uh, someone comes on stage, they light a candle, um by taking a match out of a matchbox for something completely different, and then in the second half, the candle and that matchbox are still there, ready to continue the show, and any magicians listening have probably realized what we do in that interval. So, yeah, I do give the candle away at the end as well of the performance, um, because the effect well, the whole show really is about sort of fears and anxieties and, like I said, we've used this candle um to overcome that, so that candle is given away as a souvenir, to remind them that they've overcome their fear on that particular evening, and also to prove that it's not a trick candle at the end too.
Speaker 2:So if people don't know what Rexignus is, just to circle back, essentially it's a routine in which you hold your hand over a candle, it burns you. They hold their hand over a candle, it burns them, and then you do whatever jiggery-pokery you want to their brain and then, when they put their hand over the candle, it no longer burns them. When you put your hand over the candle, it no longer burns you until, of course, it's completely under your control and they can fill the heat again and you can fill the heat.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it essentially takes the element of being burnt away from the candle yep, pretty much, and that that would be the the way that you would tend to that. That would be what came with it. But, like I said, it's always nice to to use it in a different way or to use it to emphasize something else. I know I've had thoughts about using it for like a PK touch so you could have a voodoo doll on the other side. I haven't done this in my show, it was just sort of like thoughts that I haven't tried yet.
Speaker 1:But imagine having like a voodoo doll and an ice cube and you put in the ice cube on the voodoo doll's hand and then all of a sudden they can put their hand over the flame. So I think you could use it for for other things too, not just the classic. It's hot now, it isn't just. As long as you don't get the spectator with the asbestos hands, then you're probably going to be all right. I say that an ex-girlfriend. Wow, I was shown this once and she just had a hand over the candle. I was like like how are you doing this? Because the thing wasn't gimmicked and honestly it was like so some people can just do it, whereas me, with my very sensitive skin, would definitely need a Rex Ignis.
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Speaker 2:Great. So that brings us on to number six. So what did you put in your sixth spot?
Speaker 1:Number six it's out of chronological order, but it is the Hidden by andy nyman. But it is another childhood purchase, um, and I say purchase, I think this was probably the first thing that I ever bought for myself direct from alakazam. So, again, I was probably what you would call like a hobbyist, and this is in my teens now, and then I went from that to like a massive gap where I just didn't do anything until 2017. But I remember getting this because it was just after Darren was on the TV with the. I think it was the mind control or trick of the mind. It was one of those ones. So, as you know, mentalism had a massive surge in interest and you would always see the name Andy Nyman in the credits, and then Alakazam bring out this thing by Andy Nyman. So I put the two together and think, well, this is obviously going to be good and I'd have been right. So, like I say, this is the first time I purchased magic, just as a hobbyist, because I wanted to, to learn it and perform it on social occasions if I was going to parties, that sort of stuff, and the method is just so simply, andy Nyman, it's just amazing Again, you almost feel bad when you're performing this, that the person is fooled.
Speaker 1:That's how I feel, anyway. It's just like how am I getting away with this? And I love tricks like that. I love tricks that are quite simple, which is probably why I go for bizarre magic, because that's always a, or tends to be, a, simple method hidden within a very complex story, and that's essentially what this is. It's a simple method that is hidden by the story that Andy tells when he demonstrates it and, yeah, I think it's one of my favorite things in mentalism.
Speaker 1:And, again, you can perform this on the fly as well. So if you have a pack of cards or whatever and you don't mind writing on them, you could easily just do this. If you're asked to do something with a borrowed deck or something, as long as you don't mind graffitiing them. I think back in the day, I did carry the blank cards with me as well, though, and they would just be in my jacket pocket and this is ready to go, if anyone, but then I would take it out purposely to show someone. So if anyone said, oh, have you got any magic on you? You're like, yes, I do, and this comes out your pocket Very, very early EDC. But yeah, the effect for anyone that hasn't seen the hidden, which surely there can't be that many.
Speaker 1:But you get a deck of cards. You essentially cut it into three places under the guise of card counting. Then, when you look at where you've cut, you have cut to a very specific point because you've made markers on the table with a coin, a watch and a wallet, not necessarily in that order, but the first cut you've put next to the coin, let's say. The second cut you make you put next to the, the watch, and the third one goes next to your wallet, and you find out that there's actually a word on the card you've cut to which matches to the item. So you've got coin, watch and wallet, where the actual items are. And then, for the kicker ending, it's revealed that the rest of the cards weren't even a pack of cards. They were a pack of blanks. Um, so if you'd cut anywhere else, you would have got a blank card. It's literally phenomenal, isn't it?
Speaker 2:it's just amazing yeah, it's one that when I first started doing magic gigs, so when I was sort of probably 18 again, I bought it and started gigging it straight away and it gets such good reactions. It really is. I mean, we've spoken about it so many times on this podcast. Now the blank end, the blank deck ending, just hits an audience like nothing before it. Um, and, you're right, having that sort of the coin watch wallet weird anyway. Why are you borrowing a coin or watching a wallet? That's just bizarre.
Speaker 2:And then I think andy starts off. If I remember rightly, it's been a while since I've done it. He will say, uh, like I'm a ninja at card cutting and he'll just cut a certain amount off and he'll say 12, and then he'll just count them without counting them out loud, he'll just deal them down. He'll say, yeah, that's it. And he he always says, like the, the audience are following along with you counting those cards without you having to say anything. And that's when you know that they're invested in it. And then, of course, that sets up the idea of them cutting the, the packets. And then, yeah, from that point you get that blank deck ending. But you're right, it's an absolutely superb routine and it's one that I think maybe has gotten lost in recent years to history and to just the amount of magic which comes out, but it really is a phenomenal routine.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that you put it on here, because it's a great choice like I said before, um, I mean, I don't tend to do um the trick verbatim anymore, but I use it as a utility device. So I like to use it as a, as a forcing thing. So in parlor, show, or sometimes even close up to this as well, I'll have a pack of cards with words or pictures written on them and rather than do the hidden, as Andy does it, we do it and obviously we. We get three people to cut in different places and wherever they've cut, they secretly look at what the word was and we can show the rest. We're all different, and now you've got three, three forces, which I thought was quite a cool thing.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, cool little utility item as well yeah, that's really, really smart, that's a great idea and it does lead us nicely. Now, looking at your list, we've got crystal cleaver, so we've got tenure. Then we got dynamic coins, a cool coin trick. Then we got the amazed box, which was more of a utility device. Then we got jazz mentalism, which was an esp matchup, rex ignis, which is a stunt routine, stunt effect, and then we've got the hidden, which is a cool mentalism, blank deck ending. So super diverse so far. So obviously we're into the tail end of your eight. I've no idea what's going to come next at this point. So what did you put in your seventh position?
Speaker 1:We're going for ghosts and skulls now. So we're going with Cephalagia by Stuart James. So this is the bizarre side. So I love the spirit cabinet, as we have discussed. I know you do too.
Speaker 1:I am on the side of what you don't see happen is more powerful than what you do, because it forces people's imaginations to work harder. I feel so when all these sort of bizarre and unexplainable things are kind of happening under the cover of darkness, your mind has to somehow maybe piece it together, and I always think of that like a good horror film. And it's hard to find a good horror film these days because you normally know what the thing is or, especially if it's supernatural in nature, you will still see the monster or the ghost or whatever, and I always think that spoils it because, like I say, like I say, I think it's what you don't see scares you more and that keeps you hooked. Which is why, even in, like a modern saying, when the bell rings in the cabinet or in the box behind the veil, you shouldn't see it definitively ring, in my opinion. I think at the very most, when the cabinet is brought down or if it's a spirit cabinet, the curtain is pulled, you might see it swaying, but then it could be a trick of the light, like are you, is it swaying or is it not? But you shouldn't see it physically ring because then it's just a clever trick, whereas if you don't, if you hear it, you know it's happened, but you don't really believe in ghosts. So you kind of question, how has he made that? Do that? And, yeah, I think it becomes more engaging. So, yeah, the spirit cabinet condensed into cephalagia, so it makes it more accessible.
Speaker 1:I guess In my show now I do do the spirit cabinet, although I do a cabinet-less spirit cabinet and I just use the house lights as darkness rather than make the actual thing up. I think I was talking to you about this and how much money I've spent on prototype spirit cabinets. Um, for anyone that doesn't know, jamie has the holy grail. He has a spirit cabinet that fits in a hatchback. Um, I couldn't, I couldn't do that. I. I failed miserably at this. I would have to have at least three of the seats down to get any of my prototypes in, and it wouldn't have done the suspension any good either, because I think the first one was made out of out of wood and that was still really heavy. And then the second one I made out of metal. Um, it was literally that like steel climbing frame. I think that's what it was. Yeah, it was. It was very, very heavy.
Speaker 1:So, yes, we went for spirit cabinetless in the end, but before that it was the cephalagia cabinet, because there's just something so weird about this undecorated box on the stage with a with a latch when the door comes down. So, yeah, certainly more portable and cost effective, but yeah, I just, I just love the imagery of it and all the old things that can happen inside of it and the stories you can tell as well, because, again, it's a bit like the carny box. You've got this, this wooden box which is probably center stage in a spotlight, and then again it'll make people in the audience's imaginations put the pieces together themselves. But, yeah, I think the stories that you can tell, like, what was it originally used for? Why was it made? I remember.
Speaker 1:So I made my own for my second stage show and I wasn't even sure whether I was going to put anything spooky in it, because the first show that I did was basically a Victorian seance. So you had, like the Ouija boards, you had the glass moving, the table tipping and essentially a seance at the end. So the second show I thought let's make it more contemporary, let's get rid of the ghosts and things like that. But I thought, well, I'll put this in, I'll put the cephalagia cabinet in, and it was probably the most talked about thing from the actual show. And then I thought how stupid I have been.
Speaker 1:People love a good ghost story. Stick to what I know and stick to ghosts. Um, but yeah, I think it's that the visual, the first visual, where the, where the ball, usually a brightly colored red ball, goes into the glass. Now, now, as magicians we think, yeah, that's clever, but for the layperson watching that they are literally gobsmacked, like how on earth has that happened? But how it gets into that glass for laypeople is just, it's impossible, there's no way it could have happened. And that's just the first thing it does, which is a very old method. And that's before you kind of get into the modern adaptions that you can add into these things, which perhaps use electronics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great, and I mean so those that don't know the original was a. I think it was published in the Jinx and it was basically just a small box with a glass and a ball and you would close the door of the box. Sometimes there's a curtain on the front and then the ball would be in the jar or the glass and then through history, we now have like plastic versions, sometimes wood versions, and those tend to have a wall. Uh, most people know that as the astro or astra astro ball uh version of it as well. Um, but yeah, it's such a wonderful trick and it's one that I mean you've seen that, the version that I I have because I bought it up to a lecture recently, and I think that as soon as you know the method just going around to some antique shops and finding the right box and making it yourself they're not very hard to make at all, they're so easy to make, but it makes it so much more interesting.
Speaker 2:And something you said you've said it a couple of times actually throughout the course of the podcast is about the, the prop telling a story, and I think a lot of the time we as performers, especially when we're creating a stage show don't tend to think about the impact props have on an audience before the show begins. And I remember going to see Jermay years ago and he had a great projection and it was a very simple projection onto the back wall and all of the audience were talking about it before the show began. And I do think that the props tell a story before the show's begun. If you want to create an environment or a feeling, then having those props set on the stage are going to encourage that feeling, are going to encourage that conversation and ultimately, it will encourage the excitement of what they're about to see and they're about to feel.
Speaker 2:And boxes I know that we've had lots of people talk about boxes on the podcast. I feel, um, boxes. I know that we've had lots of people talk about boxes on the podcast. Boxes sort of do that because you know what's inside the box. Anything could be inside it. There's so many different sizes. They could be made out of different things, um, so, yeah, I think it's an absolutely great choice, um, but I will say you said that you use it just by turning the lights off. That's the spirit cabinet.
Speaker 1:Um, with the cephalagia, I guess. Obviously the choice is cephalagia, but it is kind of spirit cabinet too. Can we have like a multi-choice, like a split choice for number seven? Yeah, there's the spirit cabinet. I decided that I don't want to start performing a stage show feeling like I've just moved house, which is how I felt when I had to put up this, this cabinet. Um, I was absolutely worn out by the time I'd eaten.
Speaker 1:The last time I did it, we put this thing up ready to be wheeled on, because this had brass coasters and everything it was. It was very heavy, and then the the stage hand was like right, two minutes? And I was like, definitely not two minutes, I'm going to need 10 minutes under rest before we even think about starting a show. So, yeah, we went for a cabinet-less version, because I think you'll have likely heard the phrase where the spirits can only work in the dark is what the mediums used to say. So I thought, well, let's paint it red and use that, because we're now in a modern setting where we can control the lights. Um, so the theater can go pitch black when we need it to, which acts as the curtain, but now the whole audience is in the cabinet. So it's kind of like you said before um, they become part of the act whether they like it or not, because we'll have things going on in the audience like an old spook show basically. So it's quite a immersive effect yeah, it's great.
Speaker 2:I know um ben hart has a wonderful trick that plunges the audience into darkness as well. Um, which uses matches, I think is in his book the darkest corners. But yeah, the idea of plunging the audience into darkness, I think is such a lovely moment. Uh, certainly very different to anything else that they're going to see before in a in a theater environment, but it does bring us on to number eight. So what did you put in your last spot?
Speaker 1:we are still into bizarre, so I had to think long and hard about this one, because there is a. There's a lot of things in magic that I love, but I've kept it dark and I am going to go for Slasher by Keith Hart and for anybody that hasn't seen what this is, because I'll remember to slash, as the name suggests, your wrists, your arm, any body part, I suppose that you would like to. You will then have blood dripping down from the blade. You will have an open wound that you could magically wipe away if you wanted to. Okay, I don't tend to do that.
Speaker 1:Again, we use this in the show, but it's such a convincing thing because it looks like a real blade. I use this in the show to sign a contract. So, basically, I'm about to go into a game of chance and a Russian roulette effect, so I sign my soul over to the devil whilst talking about superstitions, superstitions that we've had through history. So I talk about magpies and things like that and how the whole good morning, mr Magpie was done, because we used to think that the magpie was the devil in disguise. So I'm talking about that, as I'm just casually opening the razor blade, there's a bowl of water and a towel. Talking about that, as I'm just casually opening the, uh, the razor blade, there's a bowl of water and a towel, um, and I slash it in my hand so that the blood starts dripping out of my closed fist. Uh, and that is credited to um. It's an inside number nine episode called misdirection, with reese shearsmith playing the magician and he's been showing it by this amateur magician that's interviewing him. If you go into, I think it's Blackheart artifacts or might just be Blackheart artifacts. It's Keith Hart that does it. There's actually a clip of that on the actual, on the actual product page. But, yeah, he puts it in his closed hand and then draws the knife out and it just looks so visceral.
Speaker 1:After the show I literally had intelligent people coming up to me saying did you do that for real? And I'm like, yes, but in my head I'm thinking like, of course not. Like why would anybody do that for real? It's a magic show. But yeah, that's how good it looks. It's just a wonderful utility thing to have, which will just boost any bizarre thing that you're doing.
Speaker 1:Um, I do love sort of shock magic and I know obviously there's a lot of thing. Uh, like, blockhead is becoming more popular. I think mark spellman's re-released that um, or the human pin cushion. Eating glass is popular, um, needles through arm, that sort of thing. But for me this is the one that just pushes the audience to the edge of that comfort zone and think what is he doing with a knife? Um, and then, yep, he's cutting himself with that knife, which is the thing we kind of hoped wouldn't happen. And then it's happening, or is it? I don't know. Some people think it is real, apparently, but yeah, it's just wonderful theatrics, and I'm a sucker for theatrics, especially when it comes to a stage show yeah, it's sort of like a modern knife through arm.
Speaker 2:Is is the best way of putting it. Yeah, it's great. And the idea of just, you know, build building up the tension I think is is the answer there, because normally we build up tension to release it right, but they're sort of building up tension to build up tension. You're sort of building it up and they're they're saying to themselves exactly like what you just said he's of course, he's not going to do that, of course he's not Bang. Then you do it. So, yeah, I can imagine the response from people with. That is superb. And when you said that you use it in the show, do you use it as a like a healing thing? Do you use it as a pain thing?
Speaker 1:um, I simply use it to draw blood to sign this contract to the devil. So, basically, we have the contract on the table. It's, there's a camera overhead to show it on the projector. Um, I cut my hand, sign it in blood, put my hand in the water and then actually bandage up my hand and I literally, literally continue. This is the ending of the first half, but in the second half I keep Kayfabe alive, as you would call it, and keep this bandage on my hand for the second half. So maybe that's why people thought it was real. I don't know. Maybe I should take it off to let them know I'm actually a mole, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great, but again, we were thinking that the last one was going to be a curveball, and it is. So, just looking back at your list Crystal Cleaver, Dynamic Coins, amazebox, jazz, mentalism, rex, ignis, the Hidden Cephalagia box and then Slasher. So that does bring us to your book. Now, obviously, until this point we've given you eight items. Now you're only allowed one each of these. So what did you put in your book position?
Speaker 1:My book position is a very popular one. I do listen to this show, but I'm going to say this very unapologetically. I'm going to say Notes from a Fellow Traveller by Derren Brown. This is the only book that I've ever owned where I'm thinking of getting a second copy if I go away somewhere. So I bought the signed copy, the one that's like a million pounds on eBay or something now. So I'm thinking I don't really want to chuck that in a backpack if I'm going away somewhere. So I actually hope he re-releases the paperback, or I might even go and pick one up on eBay, because I think they're only 500 pounds or something, so because they weren't signed. So, yeah, I might get a paperback copy just so I can read it again without ruining my uh expensive signed copy. And that's how much I love it. It's just wonderful. It's a wonderful, wonderful book. I really like the way it's written. It's again I know lots of other people have said this but the writing style just feels like it's not so much a book but a conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I mean we're not giving anything away, but it's got to be up there for the most recommended book. I think it's very close to think. We've had mark wilson's complete course in magic mentioned quite a few times as well. But yeah, you're right, it's a phenomenal book. I know that lots of people will be messaging you now saying that they have a copy for 900 pound that you can have um, as opposed to the full thousand. Uh, but that does bring us to your item. So what did you put in your item position?
Speaker 1:I struggled with this one because I don't know whether I'm cheating. So I've got two. So I thought, a pack of tarot cards, which. Well, there's the whole sort of argument do you use tarot for magic or do you not? But it's a mystery arts item, but I'm not sure whether it's magic. But if I'm not allowed that, I'm going to choose a tube of repositional glue. So two very different things.
Speaker 2:So I think that tarot cards are to bizarre or mystery performers, what a deck of cards are to magicians and mentalists, right? So mentalists have got this whole thing of should playing cards be used in mentalism, this whole thing of should playing cards be used in mentalism. And then you have the argument of should tarot cards be used in magic and mentalism or should they just be sort of a natural tool that is used for divination? So, yeah, I think you're right. It's a really interesting one. I know that we've had conflicting views already from people on this podcast. But why the repositionable glue? Are they repositionable glue?
Speaker 1:the repositional glue. Um, it's one of the first things I picked up when I was relearning magic in 2017 and had a few ideas with, and I know it can be used in a very magical way. If you're thinking about this, you're probably thinking about a transposition, which is a very magical thing. However, there's been quite a few people that have done, um, certain effects where I've thought, hey, you could use the repositional glue there. For example, I know paul brooke does something where it's um, I think he might use the out to lunch principle, but it's a triangle. Um, but when you turn it around, that, the card that they've signed is now a circle, and they've actually must have been looking at a circle because, look, you signed it.
Speaker 1:But if you use a sharpie pen in conjunction with this really stickable glue and another card, you can make a pretty convincing card that can change the shape, shall we say. So it is a transposition, but it's done in a different way. So you're doing it more like, um, you're making someone misremember something. So pseudo-hypnosis, I suppose. So, yeah, and I just love this stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll let you have both. All right, I'll be extra nice to you. You went to a shop, a crystal shop. They had a tarot deck in there. Really strangely, there was some glue that was being given free with it. Um, so we'll give you both. We'll give you both of them. Uh, yeah, that's great. Uh, an excellent, excellent list there. You know, a nice, diverse, eclectic mix. Everything from you know tenyo to mentalism, sort of pieces in there, all the way to you know spirit cabinets and a knife. Um, so if people want to find out more about you, chris, where can they go?
Speaker 1:um so a couple of places you can go. If you want to see the props and things that I'm making. Um, you can go to strange stagecouk.
Speaker 2:if you want to know more about the damn final show, it's chrismarlandcom and are you going to be at any conventions or anything like that, chris?
Speaker 1:um, I'm hoping to get to the doomsday convention in may of next year.
Speaker 2:If I'm not there in person, there'll certainly be someone representing strange stage there, so all my, all my wares will be on show regardless yeah, great, and again, we can't give too much away, but do keep your eyes peeled on the alakazam site, um, because no, you know what? That's all I'm gonna say. That's all I'm gonna say. How much of a tease is that. You can't get any worse than that. Uh well, thank you so much, chris, for giving your time, uh out and putting this list together. Thank you, absolute pleasure. And uh, I'm sure we will be seeing lots more of you going forward.
Speaker 2:I want to give a personal mention, just because I love chris's stuff. If you are looking for cool switching boxes without giving too much away, um billet boxes, if you're into anything bizarre, you know, do go check out chris's. Chris's stuff. It is absolute quality. Even the cards he produces are hand waxed like come on, who's got time for that? So really do go check it out. He's got an item coming out, hopefully this year, which I personally love. If you're a fan of Spirit Cabinets and the War, then you'll love this. It's a nice match between both of them. But, yeah, please do go check out Chris's stuff. It really is phenomenal. Of course, we're going to be back next week with another episode of Stranded with a Stranger and Desert Island Tricks, but until then, have a great week everyone. Goodbye.
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