Edward Hilsum

Edward Hilsum takes centre stage in our latest episode, sharing his journey from a budding magician inspired by Lance Burton's iconic Dove Act to a celebrated performer at the Magic Circle and British Champion of Magic. Edward recounts his unique experiences performing in the West End's Wonderville during the tumultuous COVID era, alongside his role nurturing young talents through the Young Magicians Club. His story is a testament to passion, perseverance, and the transformative power of mentorship from legends like Ali Bongo.

Edward’s list is truly eclectic from classic tricks like the egg bag and Professor's Nightmare to Hospitality. Edward unravels the art of crafting magic that resonates with diverse audiences, underscoring the significance of storytelling and creating personalised experiences. He also imparts wisdom on performing for children, emphasising their comfort and engagement to make magic a shared, joyous experience. Through fascinating anecdotes, Edward illustrates how seemingly simple tricks can captivate and leave lasting impressions.

The episode also explores Edward's favourite magical influences and routines, such as Jim Steinmeyer's "Hospitality" and his penchant for hyper-personalised tricks that forge emotional connections with audiences. With insights into the art of memory transformation and audience participation, Edward offers a fresh look at the nuances of magical performances. This episode promises to inspire aspiring magicians and magic beginners alike with its blend of personal stories, magical insights, and a heartfelt celebration of the magic community's supportive spirit.

Edward Hilsum's Desert Island Tricks

1. Lance Burtons Dove Act
2. Silver
3. Professors Nightmare 
4. The Magicians assistant 
5. Egg Bag
6. You’ve Been Framed
7. Hospitality (Any Drink Called For) 
8. Marco Karvo’s Finale 

Banishment. Gags that put down audience members 

Book. Jonathan Goodwin's Methods to my Madness

Item. Puppy

Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk

Chapters

• 0:00 Magician Edward Hillson and Young Magicians
• 10:12 Magic Origins
• 21:08 Magic Routines and Personal Inspiration
• 35:19 Magician's Impact on Child Audience
• 38:54 Egg Bag Magic Routine Appreciation
• 43:50 Egg Bag Magic Performance Insights
• 48:15 Personalized Magic Routine Creation and Inspiration
• 55:45 Transformation Through Magical Routines
• 1:04:59 Bird Act Inspiration and Audience Respect
• 1:16:46 Magic Book Recommendations and Pet Preferences
• 1:23:50 Liquid Forks

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:56

I'll never forget the first time I had actually it was just after Christmas. We got tickets in the front row. I was there with my mum and my nan, who had taken me out to Vegas for the first time, and beforehand because I heard that he sometimes met magicians. So I wrote to him through the website and didn't hear back and just thought, fine, he's busy. Little did I know. My mum had also written in and got a reply from his lovely PA who, just before the show started, this immaculate lady appeared, had a nice chat and then said by the way, after the show, do you need to go anywhere? And I just looked at my mum was like no, no, no so you can imagine.

Speaker 1: 1:30

Not only was I about to see my hero perform live for the first time. I was sat through the show kind of can't, waiting for it to not waiting for it to end, you know, until I knew he was going to come and meet, and it was just like I don't think my smile could have got any bigger, yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:11

Hello and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. How exciting that we are into the second episode of season two and I'm super, super excited for today's guest. Today's guest is someone who I've seen him perform in the West End Absolutely phenomenal. It was actually during COVID, so there was a slight time when theatres could open and they put together a magic show in the West End. The highlight of the show all day long was his act. When theatres could open and they put together a magic show in the West End, the highlight of the show all day long was his act. It was absolutely phenomenal.

Speaker 3: 2:47

And today's guest has just a ridiculous amount of accolades right Now. Listen to this British Champion of Magic 2014. The Magic Circle Stage Magician of the Year 2018. The Magic Circle Terry Herbert Award 2019. The Magic Circle Close-Up Magician of the Year 2018. The Magic Circle Terry Herbert Award 2019. The Magic Circle Close-Up Magician of the Year 2020. London Coach's Up Magic Champion 2021. It goes on and on and on. He's a resident magician at Wembley Stadium and he actually sort of runs the Young Magicians Club in London and we're going to talk about that at the very beginning because it's such an incredible place for young people to do magic, but we'll talk about that again. So today's guest is the wonderful Edward Hillson. How are you, edward?

Speaker 1: 3:31

I'm very well wow that introduction. Thank you so much and no pressure.

Speaker 3: 3:36

That is an incredible accomplishment. The amount of things that you've accomplished is just incredible and, like I say, seeing you in Wonderville in London was incredible, and that was the first magic circle president performed in that show. So, um, not my show, the first raw variety, um.

Speaker 1: 3:51

So yeah, very special place and a joy to be part of it yeah it was.

Speaker 3: 4:12

It was such a lovely show. I really, really enjoyed it. It was very um. For those who didn't get a chance to see it, I would say say it was very old school variety, almost vaudevillian theatre. It was such a diverse mix and if I remember rightly, they had different performers which changed up on different shows. So I think we had a circus performer, a hoopist or something, in our one which again just was so interesting and different and very old school nostalgic I would say.

Speaker 1: 4:45

Yeah, it was a really special place because it's where the Harry Potter play is on and there was only so much. I mean, we did have an incredible set designer, but the Harry Potter play didn't allow us to completely strip the theatre. So our set was built into the Harry Potter set, which is quite, you know, otherworldly, a little bit Hogwarts vibes. So I think the nature of magic and being timeless, really it just fit so well.

Speaker 3: 5:17

Yeah, it was. It was such a lovely show. Now, earlier on, I did mention very briefly the young magicians club and I think it would be such a shame if we do have any young magicians. I'm not sure what the age demographic for this podcast is, but if there are young magicians or maybe there are, you know, magicians just getting into magic who have discovered this, and they have young ones who want to get into magic so tell us about the young magicians club and all of all of the genuinely incredible things that you guys are doing there I mean, I guess I'm biased, but I think it is the best place for young magicians to meet each other, be inspired, see the best magic.

Speaker 1: 5:55

So we have, you know all the britain's got talent winners.

Speaker 1: 5:58

Come by. We had derren brown come in. Dynamo's been, you know all the Britain's Got Talent winners. Come by. We had Derren Brown come in. Dynamo's been in, you know. So you see all your heroes. It's where I started. So it's open to anyone, 10 to 18. There's no exam. Anyone can join from anywhere in the world. We Zoom all the meetings now, too. There's video archives and lecture archives. And, yes, I joined when I was 12.

Speaker 1: 6:19

And magic went from being an interest to this is what I'm going to do, because you're learning from real magicians, you're meeting each other and you know I could see it being possible as the first stage I performed on. So every month is the opportunity to perform. We have competitions, so, yeah, it's sort of amazing. It's come full circle. I met harry de cruz there. He became one of my best friends and then, yeah, it just seemed to be the right time. We uh, it was funny.

Speaker 1: 6:49

Um, a post came out looking for a new chair of the young magicians club and it wasn't even a question that we asked each other should we do this? We just started writing the application to do it together. Um, so we are now the co-chairs of the club and, yeah, it's been just over two years now. Time flies and the thing that I really remember our first junior day that we organized. So once a year we have our big one day convention with our big stage and close-up competitions and special guests and a gala show and there's an award ceremony for, you know, the big award winners to collect their prizes. And I will never forget that first awards I mean me and Harry were nearly in tears, honestly the support in that room for and even other competitors, cheering and whooping and standing for the winners that beat them, standing for the winners that beaten them.

Speaker 3: 7:45

You know, it really is just the most supportive place I've been a part of and, um, yeah, I think older magicians could learn a lot from it too well, talking of older magicians, if there are magicians out there who maybe lecture or they have something that they feel like they could share with young magicians, how can they get in touch to get involved and maybe lecture for the young magicians club?

Speaker 1: 8:05

yeah, we're always looking for interesting lectures, so particularly people that do something a bit different or you have a unique touch on a classic of magic? Um, get in touch with myself. Or harry de cruz, um, it's probably the best way. Yeah, find us on all the socials.

Speaker 3: 8:20

Or you can email chair c-h-a-i-r at young magicians clubcouk and lastly, and then we'll move on to your list, if anyone does want to become a member of the young magicians club, what process do they have to go through?

Speaker 1: 8:37

so it's very straightforward. There's just one form to fill in. It's youngmagiciansclubcouk, or you can go on the Magic Circle website and there's a link to if you're under 18. Yeah, we try to streamline the process as much as possible. So one little form and you're in. Like I said, no examination, anyone in, anywhere in the world you can join, open to anyone that loves magic.

Speaker 3: 9:02

Let's talk about you. So if people aren't aware of the sort of magic that you do, edward, what would you say to them? What sort of magic do you generally prefer?

Speaker 1: 9:10

I guess I genuinely do do a bit of everything. Um, I started with close up magic and I still do close up gigs and jobs. I guess my big passion is more storytelling magic, and particularly on stage. But you know, I've had amazing experiences of performing on huge stages for 3,000 people upwards. But actually I think I've come to the point where my favorite performances are more intimate. So being able to do stage style magic, but for up to 100 people.

Speaker 1: 9:41

So somewhere like the magic circle is my, my favorite venue. Really that sort of scale where, even if you're sat at the back, you've got a great view, you feel part of it, you're connected, you don't need to watch it on a big screen. Um, and yeah, where people are there to watch magic and you're not in the interruption, I would say, yeah, they're I guess the two sides of the work I do. And certainly when people are there to watch magic and you're not in the interruption, I would say, yeah, I guess the two sides of the work I do. And certainly when people have come to see a show, it's always more fun for everyone.

Speaker 3: 10:07

Well, that is a tease if ever there was any for what I'm sure will be a very interesting list. So if this is your first time listening to the podcast, firstly, where have you been? This is season two, guys. This is season two, but we are about to whisk Edward away to his own magical island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks, one book, one non-magic item, and he's allowed to dig a big sandy hole and banish something from our industry. Oh, it's the new controversial thing. So we're going to see where this goes. So, with that being said, let's whisk him away and find out what's in his first position. So, what's in your first spot, edward?

Speaker 1: 10:47

So well. I must say also, I'm a new listener and I've really enjoyed listening to these. So thank you very much for putting out a great podcast. Because I am a new subscriber, I was also a bit caught in two minds whether this needs to be things I perform or things I love so well. My first one is Lance Burton's Dove Act and if I had to be specific, I would say the opening moment where Lance lights his cane. The fire twirls up the cane, it appears on his hand, he throws the fire out and it turns into a dove in midair and fly. The dove flies back to him. It's just the coolest thing.

Speaker 1: 11:26

I remember seeing this on tv when I was about 10 years old. I was already seriously into magic, but this just blew my mind. It was one of those 50 greatest magic tricks countdown shows. I think he was position three. I didn't even catch his name, but that few seconds was burned into my mind and from that moment on, anytime, I thought of a magician. That's the image that came to mind. So yeah, obviously having doves and doing that sort of act was a bit out of reach, but it did become the dream and I knew that's what I had to do from that sort of age, and it became the thing I pestered my parents about. I wanted doves, and so I eventually got my first doves when I was 16. And it took me many years before I had the confidence to have a dove fly out on stage in that manner. But I do now have a version of this as the opening of my act, and it's just the best feeling.

Speaker 3: 12:24

Well, you sort of become known for your dove act at this point as well. I know that when I've talked to quite a few people they say have you seen edward hillson do his dove act? So you've, and I know that the young magicians club are very much hoping that you'll come in to do a chat about Dove magic one day. So in terms of, because we've not, as far as I remember, we've not had a Dove act or a Dove routine so far on the podcast. So it's a really interesting one to understand how, how is that a thing that you start getting into, practicing, developing?

Speaker 1: 13:02

I think it is interesting in that I had never seen a Dove Act live before I got my first Doves and I do feel a little bit old thinking back that I was getting into it at a time when YouTube was sort of pretty new. I had the Magic Cafe was the forum I used to use and I met Dan Sperry on there and we used to chat and, yeah, dove workers would talk to each other. But there was very little information. So when I got my first doves I still had no idea how any of the methods work genuinely. I watched Lance Burton's act on YouTube hundreds, if not thousands, of times but still had no idea how it actually worked. I was ordering props and not really knowing what I was ordering. So, um, but I guess that naivety is kind of beautiful in youth. Right, you just go, I'm gonna do it, we'll find a way. But I did also have ali bongo at the young magicians club who sort of steered me in the right direction. I feel very lucky. You know, we didn't really realize how lucky we were. He was just there every month, didn't really know who he was because he was very modest, but obviously now looking back whereas, how lucky we were to have his knowledge just shared with us. Um, and yeah, then it was just a slow journey of patience, I guess, and they've always been my pets and family and, um, yeah, like getting a puppy, you know, just spending time with them and getting their trust. And then, slowly but surely, the magic circle was the first stage I ever performed the act on, so it does feel like home.

Speaker 1: 14:33

Um, I remember being terrified the first. It was the auditions for junior day and just, I almost took over the main dressing room because I built up, built this pop-up cage because I wanted the doves to be comfy. I remember Mandy thinking what's going on here? Um, yeah, just not knowing what I was doing really, but doing it. And, like you say, I think I became known in the magic world certainly for doing that, because it was unusual, right, I think if I'd have seen lots of people do dove acts, I probably wouldn't have wanted to do it. And it's interesting because going back 10 years previously, I think that was sort of the vibe Most people you know, young magicians, a lot of them were doing dove acts. So who knows if I would have been as entranced when I saw Lance do it on TV, if it was something I was seeing a lot of. But I think certainly that novelty of it just having no idea of any of the concepts made it the thing that just I had to do.

Speaker 3: 15:29

And when you think of Lance Burton, you think of the gentleman dressed in the suit next to the lamppost. It's such an iconic piece of magic. Now, when you think of Teller, you think about the rose. It's one of those pieces that really defined Dove magic. I would say it's sort of become the new standard for that sort of act.

Speaker 1: 15:51

Yeah, I mean I believe he was the first American to win the World Championships in Magic FISM with that act. And yeah, I was lucky to see him live quite a few times in Las Vegas in his theater. In fact, I just happened to be there the my last evening on one trip was his last ever performance and I managed to get tickets, so I saw his last time ever doing the act in his theater. Um, and it was just always flawless. I'll never forget the first time I had actually it was just after Christmas. We got tickets in the front row.

Speaker 1: 16:23

I was there with my mum and my nan, who had taken me out to Vegas for the first time and beforehand, because I heard that he sometimes met magicians. So I wrote to him through the website and didn't hear back and just thought, fine, he's busy. Little did I know my mum had also written in and got a reply from his lovely pa etalyn who, amazed, just shows you what an amazing guy lances. She is still his assistant because he's busier than ever, in her own words. Um and yeah, just before the show started, this immaculate lady appeared, had a nice chat and then said by the way, after the show, do you need to go anywhere and I just looked at my mum was like no, no, no and yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:08

So she said please stay in your seats and Lance would love to meet you. So you can imagine, not only was I about to see my hero perform live for the first time, I was sat through the show, kind of can't waiting for it to not waiting for it to end, you know, until I knew he was gonna come and meet, and it was just like I don't think my smile could have got any bigger. Yeah, and seeing him do the act live was just like watching him on youtube. It was perfect, although there was a slight change where he, when he did it certainly in the time I saw him, probably in the last five or six years of his career at the monte carlo, he would actually speak, which made, which gave a very human vibe, because some of those early videos he's quite distant, you know. He's even got a little bit of white face in some of those early, early um videos of him.

Speaker 1: 17:59

Um, so he's quite a cold character, but the warmth when he starts talking his kentucky accent, he just says this is the ad that got me through college, you know, and it it takes on a completely different life and so, yeah, just amazing to be able to see him live, to meet him. You know his generosity is incredible and I know he did that with every young magician who wrote in. He would take the time to meet them, answer questions, so much so he actually got a book printed called advice, which he never sold, he just gave out to every young magician he came to the show wow, yeah, that's amazing and a great first opening gambit.

Speaker 3: 18:38

A dove act is is superb. Yeah, let's just finish there. I was gonna say so. We've had a few people. Certainly we had richard young speak about taking copperfield's flying to his island and the fact that you know it's not something that he's performed, but the thought of just having it there and being able to do it is the thing. So, with Burton's act Dove Act is it something that you would take, because you've taken aspects of it in your own work, or is it something that you just love to watch, or is it something that you wish you could practice through?

Speaker 1: 19:17

I mean, if I'm allowed to have Lance Burton there doing his act, then absolutely. I mean, if I'm allowed to have Lance Burton there doing his act, then absolutely no. So I was thinking, you know, I was very, very inspired and certainly my early performances were almost a clone as much of a clone as you can get to Lance's act with the candles and the movements and the posture. But I think, in particular, the moment I'm proudest of in my act is the opening dove flying out, and I've changed it to suit me and it's quite different. And actually if you saw Wonderville, that was the opening of Wonderville, just after the introduction.

Speaker 1: 19:55

So yeah, I think, within dove magic, the appearance of a dove in midair, which is what the effect is.

Speaker 1: 20:03

You know, magicians may see it as something else, but a dove appearing in midair, flying over the audience and coming back to the magician, I just think it's so, so strong, because there's so much subtext in that you know the dove wanting to fly back to you and just seeing this beautiful creature in midair in full flight. When I do it now, it's in silence, so you can actually hear the dove flapping its wings and literally the dove is in control of that moment which I just love so much. The music starts when the dove lands, so that's the cue. Um, so I think of all the elements of his act, yeah that's. I've sort of obviously been inspired as every Dove magician since Lance has by him. But yeah, the opening of a Dove flying out and coming back to me from a flash of fire, I should say too. Yeah, it's a moment I'm very proud of and I guess Lance is always with me in the back of my mind as I do it.

Speaker 3: 21:00

Well, it's a great, great first choice and brings us nicely into number and I guess Lance is always with me in the back of my mind as I do it. Well, it's a great, great first choice and brings us nicely into number two.

Speaker 1: 21:09

So what did you put in your second spot? So second up is a routine of mine I call silver. So it's actually the first piece of magic I created. It's a coin routine where three coins appear one by one and vanish one by one. Sounds very simple, um, but it's also combined with the story of my first experience of seeing real magic.

Speaker 1: 21:32

So I talk about being at a magic show, sat on the damp grass in a marquee, the magician picked me and pulled a coin out of my ear. That may not sound like much, but remember I was only seven, et cetera. So then I get someone to join me, sit next to me on stage and the vibe is really passing on that experience to the person that joins me. But the audience sees it through their eyes too. And in terms of the magic itself, I was quite inspired by the clarity. Clarity of chris kenner's three fly. This isn't a three fly routine, but just how clear chris's routine is and also super inspired by teller and his routine, silverfish, I believe he calls it.

Speaker 1: 22:17

Magicians may know it more as a miser's dream type routine, but just how pure and magical those routines are and at the same time getting a bit frustrated seeing coin magicians kind of show every technique they're capable of which can look amazing. But you know, if you see someone produce hundreds of coins and they jump around and keep doing amazing things, you kind of wonder what is going on here, you know, and I think clarity is so, so important, um. So yeah, you can sometimes feel like you're watching a juggler, I think, when you're seeing these things on a black mat, jump and do all these crazy things. So, and I think there's a time and a place for those sorts of moves. But I wanted something that felt very pure. If I could do real magic, what would it look like? You'd wave your hands, I think, and a coin would appear, you know. So, yeah, that's the journey of it.

Speaker 3: 23:14

So is this a routine that is primarily for close-up, or is it something because I know you do a mixture of close-up and parlor and stage? Is it something because you mentioned clarity that you designed for stage or for a parlor setting as well as close-up, or is it just a close-up routine?

Speaker 1: 23:35

So it's funny actually, thinking back. It's about 13 years old now and I never thought about I sat on my bed playing with these coins. That's I didn't think about. Where am I going to ever do this? And I often joke with my flatmate at the time. It was one of my best friends. She was the first person I ever showed because, well, does this look any good? And little did I know it would be a routine I'm still doing 13 years later.

Speaker 1: 24:00

Um, I guess I just wasn't really working close up when I created it. Um, I was at university, I was doing small stage performances, so I guess parlour performances. And then the next thing I did was champions of magic, the stage tour for five years. So it just ended up being a stage routine and, to be honest, so I guess that did sort of define how it was formed, from the, from the places I was working. But then I don't think it was ever going to become a close-up routine. Just from the nature of the moves and I think the feeling of it, it was always going to be a sit-down piece. So I have done it in a parlour environment. So, you know, for a small audience, but it's very much audience sat down watching there's music. Um so, even at the beginning I I created it to a piece of music that I just loved. So yeah, I think by the nature of it being accompanied to music, or like the magic is choreographed to music, I guess means it's not really a worker close-up routine.

Speaker 3: 25:11

Well, it sounds like a lovely routine, especially when you say you put the music. I bet it's absolutely lovely to watch. But it does bring us to number three. So we've gone from doves to coins. So where are we going to go to with number three?

Speaker 1: 25:27

So number three, I have Professor's Nightmare or Fibro-Optics, a three-rope routine. So basically you show a small piece of rope, a medium piece of rope and a long piece of rope, place them together, they all become the same length and I just sort of do I don't know, it's sort of a mixture of moves that I've picked up and maybe some of my own, of ends popping off and ropes melting together and separating and cutting the ropes, but I just love it and if I'm being completely honest there, so the the story I tell in silver, of the coin appearing from my ear and meeting a magician that experienced the magic. That is true, genuinely true. I do really remember that time seeing my first magic show. But the magician picked me. He didn't pull the coin out of my ear, he pulled out a piece of rope, he cut the rope in half, he tied those ends together, pulled off the knot and gave me that knot. And that knot came home with me. It sat on my bedside table and I untied it and tied it up again so many times until it completely frayed into little fragments. And that is the real feeling, like even thinking back to it, I have as I tell the story. I just wanted to do a coin routine instead of a rope routine in my show and I think people can associate with that image more of a coin coming out your ear than a piece of rope joining back together. So, but that is a real image I have of this rope trick. I can't really remember what he did, to be honest, but I do remember getting the knot and so I guess that started my fascination with rope magic.

Speaker 1: 27:07

And I remember a few years later on a daytime tv show, seeing a magician do a three rope routine and I think that's probably the first time I saw, um, a magician with three different sized ropes at that professor's nightmare. And I guess, like seeing Lance Burton after being into magic, seeing this routine, after seeing probably quite a basic cut and restored rope again just blew my mind. I was like, wow, I have no idea what's going on there, just all those moments of magic, um, and I can't remember how I started learning it. Probably I remember doing a more standard version without the really visual moves. And then I must have seen Richard Sanders lecture, or I think I probably got his DVD before.

Speaker 1: 27:59

I remember seeing him at Blackpool and him being like hero level status in my mind, um, yeah. So it's one of those routines, one of the first close-up routines I ever started working on, and it's something I still do today at gigs. Every gig I have the ropes. Some of my good friends really laugh at me at the thought of me pulling up these ropes, but I love it and I think that's authentic and, you know, I think there's a room for unusual props in magic.

Speaker 3: 28:29

Well, that's a wonderful list. So far, we've got doves, we've got coins. Now we've got ropes, super diverse. I love it. So what's in number four? What did you put in your fourth spot? So number four, what did you?

Speaker 1: 28:39

put in your fourth spot. So number four is a routine. I don't really have a name for it, it's the magician's assistant. So this does go back to Wonderville, so it's good that you mentioned it. Basically, wonderville was a chance to. I got offered what is my favorite magic, what magic would I love to do? So a lot of my favorite magic was in that show.

Speaker 1: 28:59

Um, if I had to describe it, it was base. It's basically if you've ever seen because there's lots of magicians who have done versions of it normally you get a child up on stage, you put a jacket over them, but the jacket goes over their arms stay with me and you're the magician's arms then go through the arms of the jacket. So it gives the illusion that you're just looking at the kid, but actually you're looking at the kid, but the magician's arms then go through the arms of the jacket. So it gives the illusion that you're just looking at the kid, but actually you're looking at the kid, but the magician's hands are doing the work. So the magician is out of view behind the kid, and it's a routine that I first saw. Like I say, you see, quite a few magicians have done versions of it, but it's always a bit of a joke. Well, normally I would say it's just a bit of a joke, a bit of a oh, that's cute.

Speaker 1: 29:50

But have to go back to lance burton because he, in his show, amazingly actually like getting to know a bit more about how he put the show together. Um, his favorite part of the show was always the moment with the kid and he had five or six pieces of magic that he could choose to do with the kid. And before the show started he would peek out the curtain and find who he thought was the best kid, and then a backup and a second backup. That's how much value he gave to that moment. Um, and so during the show, based on how the audience is reacting, he would watch the kids reactions to the rest of the routines. He would pick which routine he did with that kid during the show and tell the stage management and that's the routine they would do. And I think I saw most of them. But my favorite was this routine.

Speaker 1: 30:39

But lance didn't just put a jacket over the kid and do some naff magic. He, he basically did his dove act, you know. And when you realize what's going on there, you realize how, how much more amazing it is because you're doing it blind. You're not what. You can't see your hands. When you're, you're basically on your knees, so your arms are level with the kid's height and it doesn't look good if your head's popping up over their shoulder, so he would do this routine, and it was't look good if your head's popping up over their shoulder, um, so he would do this routine and it was just incredible and it also had added meaning, because you just seen him do the dove act at the beginning and then you see him do this, and so it was lovely and wonderful to be able to do it in the same format where I did my dove act at the beginning and then would put a kid up and do my version. So the issue is it was lance's routine. I've kind of ruined the ending of the story, but I was.

Speaker 1: 31:29

My first show was a show called genie and um, it was a show about granting wishes to members of the audience, and I must give a big shout out to james friedman who co-wrote it and directed it, and all the good bits are his fault. Um, so at the end of the show he wanted a kid to become the star and do something amazing, and my head just kept going back to this routine. I saw Lance. Do you know? It's just the best moment I've ever seen with a kid up on stage, um. So I was trying to find something. What can be similar to that without copying him? And eventually james said we keep coming back to it. Why don't you just write to lance and ask if you can do something based on his routine? You know he had retired at that point, like completely retired. He wasn't doing any magic. So I thought, yeah, do you know what? What's the worst that can happen? He says no, doesn't reply. So I write to lance and I think it was less than a day went by.

Speaker 1: 32:27

Etalin, his assistant, replied and this blew my mind away because the beginning of the message was oh, lance just wanted to say thank you so much for mentioning him in your interview at the magic circle.

Speaker 1: 32:38

I was like, oh my gosh. You know, because I guess any interview I do, lance comes up because he is the reason that I'm doing it in the way I'm doing it and I'll often mention that story of meeting Lance, how generous he's been. But I never thought he would actually read that. You know it was in the Magic Circle magazine and I guess it just shows you, like, whatever level you're at, um, people, let you know if you're mentioned somewhere. Well, he may have just opened it up himself and read it, you know. So, um, yeah, I think it's important to remember the people that have helped you and where you've come from. And that was lovely to you know, I never said it because I wanted Lance to read it, but certainly it was a bit of a mind blowing moment. And then, yeah, ended with him giving me his blessing to do something based on his routine, which is what I've done. So it's a very special routine to me. It closed my kind of first theatre show and, yeah, that routine ends with a Duff production.

Speaker 3: 33:42

I think that sounds great. And what? What is the reaction? So I'm guessing this is always different, but what is the general reaction from the kids when the bird appears?

Speaker 1: 33:53

So it's interesting because, remember, I'm behind the kids so I don't see the reaction. I hear the audience and I can sort of feel. So Wonderville was really interesting because the choice of kid is so important for that routine. But I wasn't allowed into the audience. So normally I would sort of scout the audience beforehand and pick and maybe even talk to mum and dad to just get a vibe, but I wasn't allowed to go into the audience so it was completely blind. That kid was picked for me and that meant I got every possible situation.

Speaker 1: 34:30

I had days where I'd put the jacket on and the kid would burst into tears and the only right answer there is you know well, the most important thing is the kid's comfy and I, for me, watching David Williamson is a master class and I've seen, you know, after doing that routine. And then I have even more admiration for Williamson in the way he handled, you know, because you kind of look at it and go, oh, this is chaos. But it's not. It's very much organized chaos and he is right on it if their kid is slightly too young, because obviously they're super cute. But I've seen him handle three, four year olds, which is really a bit too young and how he handles them and just very kindly lets, gives them the choice to make that. If you know, would you be a bit more comfy back to mom and dad when you see they're on the brink of tears. But in the environment I was in it was kind of not always possible to stop that before it happened. Um. So yeah, number one for me was making sure the kid was comfy, and sometimes that meant stopping the routine, letting them go back, um, but that is probably you know that that's a rare occurrence, but obviously they're the ones that stick with me. I mean, normally they're kind of speechless because it starts with sort of silly magic.

Speaker 1: 35:51

I would say, you know, not silly, but not that impressive magic. So, um, like the stiff rope, where you have a rope and you straighten it out and it stands horizontally. You're just holding it in the middle, um, the flower from the lapel. They smell the flower, hold it out and it jumps back onto the lapel. But then it gets a bit smarter in terms of a billiard ball production that then vanishes into confetti, um, and there's a handkerchief production and not that disappears and then the dove appears from the hanky. So it is sort of the magic does get better, but it does suddenly go to this level when the dove appears and the kid genuinely doesn't know the dove is going to appear until they see it. So there is quite a lot of sort of half a jump.

Speaker 1: 36:49

I would say I've learned to produce the dove away from their face, because as the dove appears and opens its wings that can be quite close to a kid's face, which you know is terrifying, even if you know it's coming. But then there's this lovely moment where they get to meet the dove. They stroke him or her, depending on whose turn it is, um, and you really hear the audience gasp, because I think the audience sort of. You know it's a very cute routine. So even if you didn't do any strong magic, it's quite sweet seeing a little kid react, um, but yeah, I think again you're experiencing through the kid's eyes and you're.

Speaker 1: 37:30

I do think you kind of forget that it's not the kid doing the magic.

Speaker 1: 37:34

I know that sounds silly, but it's kind of like if you watch a ventriloquist or you know, a puppet.

Speaker 1: 37:39

You do kind of it's hard not to fall into the illusion and see them having their own personality. And you know it is a very, very deceptive illusion when my hands are through the jacket, um, and there's little moments where you know the kid is reacting and yeah, so, um, the other thing I wanted to say is also, before we start, that there is a sort of teaching the kids how to react, which I think is very important. So teaching the kid how to smile, to take a bow when you've done something good, so those sorts of things are not quite conditioned, but you know you are, it's uncomfy going on a big stage whoever you are, so let alone a little kid taken away from your family for a few minutes, you know. So I think that is important to sort of set the precedent for you're allowed to react, you're not just watching, because I think the early times I did it, sometimes the kid was just watching and having a great time, but it wasn't always showing it on their face, which doesn't. This isn't the best.

Speaker 3: 38:37

Look here on stage well, I think that's a great choice and another, another eclectic one. You know we've gone from dove, dove, act, coins, ropes, now a magician's assistant routine. I think it's a great list so far, and does bring us nicely onto number five. So what did you put in your fifth position?

Speaker 1: 38:59

So next I have put egg bag, and it's funny because it's one of those tricks that I really didn't like for a long time. I grew up going to a lot of magic conventions, seeing a lot of older magicians perform, and I think my initial response to it is what is this weird bag? It just looks so odd. But then the more I saw it and saw performers like Denny Haney, johnny Thompson, jeff Hobson, it kind of blew me away the reaction it would get, and I'm also happy to say I was fooled, like I knew the basic principle but I couldn't understand the routines they were able to do and I thought there must be more going on that. I couldn't understand the routines they were able to do, um, and I thought there must be more going on that I didn't understand. So I think that's when I started researching it and looking at all the versions that have been done and started appreciating how clever the choreography around it and scripting is to make it a really strong piece of magic. And I guess I've also so for those that don't know the routine.

Speaker 1: 40:10

So you have a bag. It's always done with what is normally done now with a member of the audience wasn't always um, an egg goes inside the bag and you show it's disappeared. You then reach in and produce the egg. I'm hesitating because there's so many versions, but for me, the thing that makes it, the thing that made it worth pursuing, was the finale that most people do do a version of. You. Give the bag to an audience member. They see the bag is completely empty. They reach out, pluck an invisible egg from the air, throw it up, reach inside the bag and produce this egg, and so what you see is that audience member genuinely stunned when it's done, right that, because they have no idea how it's worked. It's in their hands, and I think that is the magic I'm really drawn to. Now is magic. That isn't look how clever I am as the magician, but look how amazing you are and giving audience members that experience of impossibility and other or the rest of the audience seeing it through their eyes. For me, that's the strongest type of magic.

Speaker 1: 41:23

Um, and so, yeah, wanting to play with that moment, I think, is really what made me think I want to play with this routine. Um, and now it's a routine that genuinely, I always have in my bag because it can work in any environment. I've done it close up. I've done it on large stages, I've done it at dinner parties for 10 people, I've done it completely surrounded. I know it's always a. You can open with it, you can close with it, you can do it anywhere and it takes up almost no space. Like I don't think that's what attracted me to it, because I'm never someone. That was sort of practicality first, having got into dove magic, but um, yeah, seeing the response and the versatility of it, it's one of those routines that is really one of my go-to and in any environment I love it it's a phenomenal trick.

Speaker 3: 42:15

I think it's one that's overlooked. For example, when this podcast launched, it was one of the ones that I would have put up there as being quite a well-used effect, one that lots of people would be performing. And there is that lovely moment that I can imagine happens with your magician's assistant routine, when the dove appears where their face does the revelation, does the revelation. People don't need to see the egg appear in the bag, because the person's face adult orchid. It's not a kid's trick, by any stretch of the imagination. Their face just lights up and it's pure astonishment. Now, what version do you use? Because the the version that I had, I think, was the millennia egg bag. Do you have a preference over the method?

Speaker 1: 43:04

it's not even close like. The winner for me is jeff hobsons, which I, I'm sorry to say, is very hard to get hold of, and every time they pop up on ebay you're going to be fighting me for them. Um, because his wife makes them by hand and he won't have anyone else make them. Um, yeah, just because he is such a worker and he's answered all the questions. Um, johnny thompson's said very, very strongly it should be the same color inside and outside. But I do disagree with that. I think it adds clarity being able to see from a distance. That's the inside of the bag, that's the inside of the bag, that's the outside of the bag, particularly when you're getting it examined. I think that's a really important detail to make. I think the whole setup is what makes it impossible or not. That moment at the end is always going to be strong.

Speaker 1: 43:58

But if they can go back and go, wait, I checked the bag out and when I do it, the audience member one audience member is checking both sides of the bag. They check the egg, I do the magic, then they do the magic, and for me that's really critical in their experience of what just happened and, like you say, those moments when, as an audience, you don't know what's happened yet. I mean, you can guess, you think you might know, but before, for example, in this, you, you see the audience member, their reaction to feeling the egg inside the bag before you see the egg. And I think that's a common theme in probably a lot of the tricks I've chosen that they tend to be moments where that happens of the person on stage helping has that experience and then, as an audience member, you experience it through their eyes before you actually see the magic, and I think it's just such a strong moment to play with.

Speaker 1: 45:01

I think it also comes back to. I mean, what stopped me doing it for a long time was what is this bag? It's weird, so, I think, similar to the ropes. I think it does go back to this obsession now of everything needs to seem natural and impromptu. I I believe that is what stopped me from picking it up. You know, if mur Murphy's released it as something that made sense, I think everyone would be doing it.

Speaker 1: 45:27

I think also perhaps it does lend itself better as a I mean, I have genuinely performed it close up, but I think it's better as a more front on piece. You know, I think it is angle proof and I have done it surrounded genuinely. But I think when you're on stage it's one of those routines that plays really big, it genuinely, but I think when you're on stage it's one of those routines that plays really big, you know.

Speaker 3: 45:47

So it can play small, but I think it's fair to say most magicians work closer, um, so it's it's probably is better suited to to a bigger audience well, I mean you did it closer yeah, so I I used it as when I started restaurants I didn't do a lot of kids magic and when you start performing for such diverse audiences you realize that there's no avoiding it. Having a really strong piece of kids magic is sort of vital to the success of how you're going to do in some of those circumstances, sort of vital to the success of how you're going to do in some of those circumstances. And all of the tricks that I perform are, like you said, it's all about the perspective of the audience. It's never about me, as much as I can make it, not about me.

Speaker 3: 46:36

So I wanted to find a routine that just made the kid the star, very much like your magician's assistant and the egg bag for me. The star are very much like your magician's assistant and the egg bag for me all day, like when you think about the, the form factor of it. It scrunches up and it fits into your pocket. It takes up no room and you get a full stand-up performance piece from it. There's not many tricks that you can get that level of impact, that level of routining and make someone the star of it and it just amazes everyone.

Speaker 1: 47:10

I really believe so and I realize to answer your question fully. So Jeff Hobson's egg bag is the bag I use. He has really great advice on routining, but also Johnny Thompson's full routine really has gold in terms of making it impossible. Jeff Hobson is a beautiful routine and it's very, very funny and he really plays on the comedy of it. But Johnny Thompson really has the magical beats and so I've sort of taken bits from both and added my own touch. But yeah, they're the two resources I would say if you're looking to get into them.

Speaker 3: 47:52

And people should reference back to andy nyman's episode where he talks a lot about having strange objects and why we should be embracing that and not really shying away from it, and that sometimes a magician having a weird box is a good thing, because that is what a magician would have yeah, I love andy, and if he says so, then we all must listen hello guys.

Speaker 2: 48:16

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Speaker 3: 49:11

But that takes us into the tail end. So we're on number six. What did you put in your sixth spot?

Speaker 1: 49:20

So this is another routine I've created. I call it. You've been framed and let me try and describe it without going through the full script. So it does go back to, um, the story of me experiencing magic for the first time. I show a photograph in a frame of me just before that moment when the magician picked me, before he pulled the coin out of my ear, as I tell it in my show. So I've got a framed photograph of little me, um, very cute, lots of hours. And then I ask the audience to open their phones and open their photo. Sorry, take out your phones and open your photos and then scroll down, go back to the photos you forgot you had and pick one that makes you really happy. So find a forgotten memory, basically, and then pick someone to join me up on stage. They talk about their memory, why it's important to them. They then hold on to my photograph in the frame in their hands, think back to memory, open their hands and they see my photo morph into their photo and then they keep it. Yeah, so it's, it's something I'm very proud of.

Speaker 1: 50:36

Again, it came from working with James Friedman and it came from me really wanting to do object to impossible location, but kind of stalling at the first point of I didn't want an audience member to feel uncomfortable. You know, often those routines start with taking someone's really valuable ring and losing it. And you know, some magicians can get away with that and it feels funny and natural, but it just wasn't my I. I just can't feel that I can do that. I don't want an audience member to ever feel uncomfortable, especially if they've helped me up on stage. Um, so it started. What could the object be? And then we just started chatting and I remember my brother genuinely takes photos of everything, everything. It is so annoying, like you can't have a meal without a photo shoot first, everything. If he's driving, take a photo of that, take a photo of that, and it means his camera roll is full and he just gets the bigger iPhone next year, the bigger iPhone the year after. So he never deletes anything. And if he wants to show you a photo, you're there for hours with him scrolling through trying to find it, because he doesn't have anything in albums, doesn't have any favorites. So it's okay, we take a photo because we think that moment's valuable, we want to remember it. But I think most of us are the same in that we have maybe to not my brother's extent, but have albums full, so much so that you go back 10 years and you find hidden treasures. So that seemed like a good starting point.

Speaker 1: 52:23

And then the question was where does it appear? Because that appearing in a walnut seems a bit random. Of course a photo should appear in a photo frame and if that photo frame is established at the beginning, that's now an impossible location. So, saying it like that, I remember it coming together in a few minutes, like that was the effect. The journey to get there is still ongoing, but I'm really proud of where it is and I'd have actually created an act. So that was created for my last show but that, together with Silver the Queen routine I mentioned, is an act I perform. That's the act I did in the close-up competition at the Magic Circle and at the IBM and I'm representing the UK with at FISM, the World Championship, later this summer. So it's two of my original creations that, yeah, I'm very proud of and love performing.

Speaker 3: 53:19

Well, I think that sounds like a wonderful trick and I think there's been a real calling over the past maybe six to 10 years, of shows that have these hyper personalized moments. So, thinking back to one of the shows that is constantly referenced on this podcast, which is in and of itself there's some lovely personalized moments, certainly with a letter, not to give any spoilers away if you haven't seen it. And then I remember two years ago going to the west end and seeing darren's show unbelievable and there's a wonderful moment at the end of that show which is like a hyper personalized thing as well. This sounds like your version of that kind of what on earth is going on, even logistically thinking, like method. We all think methodologically I'm, it's just the way we all are. So, even thinking of the logistics of that, it must be such an incredible moment when it all comes together and it happens for that person.

Speaker 1: 54:30

I remember the first preview I did when it was like a real I nearly swore a real like halfway house version, and you can imagine the stress trying to, you know, because you need a deadline. You can imagine the stress trying to, you know, because you need a deadline, um, but there was a lot of moving pieces that had to come together and a lot that I wouldn't know if it was even possible until trying it in front of a real audience. Um, but just this, yeah, half mashed up together version, when that audience member saw their photo appearing, it was like, yes, this is, I'm onto something here and it's one of those moments I'm genuinely getting goosebumps now thinking about it. I always look forward to I mean, it's always I feel like I'm. You know that analogy of the swan looking calm on the surface and just swimming like crazy underneath, flapping eyebrows. That is kind of what's going on during this routine. Um, but yeah, the payoff just makes everything worth it and it's funny you mentioned in and of itself, like I don't think I made the conscious connection at the time when it came together, but that letter moment in particular was a real highlight for me and I think the emotion of that routine is certainly something I'm trying to emulate or create my version of with this. You know, because, again, that that routine is seeing it through that one audience member's eyes, right, um, and that is very much what happens here, because none of us were there in this audience member's memory.

Speaker 1: 55:59

But there's something really lovely that happens where at the beginning, when they're telling the memory, they're quite distant from it. So it might be oh, I was at my grandma's house one Christmas with my family. But then when they see it, they go oh, that's grandma and that's that's William. And you know that they are in the moment and not only do you see them light up, they are then describing it completely differently. They've the moment and not only do you see them light up, they are then describing it completely differently. They've come to life and it's you see them transform when it goes. Well, you know, you actually see that magical transformation within them and I've had people break into tears because it, yeah, it's. It is very much up to the audience member how far it goes down that route, but yeah, it has the power to really, to really take on that emotional life well, it's going to be hard to top that.

Speaker 3: 56:58

You've still got two spaces left. Well, what did you put in your seventh spot, next up, I have hospitality.

Speaker 1: 57:05

There are many versions of any drink called for, where you have a kettle or a carton of liquid and you pour it into different glasses and you produce different drinks. So I have to go back to lance burton, which was the first time I saw this routine and it's jim steinmeier's Hospitality, pretty much how Jim wrote it, um whereby he starts with a carton of milk no, sorry, starts with a jug of chocolate milk, pours it into a carton, it turns to regular milk, which then turns to strawberry milk I can't remember which is my version, which is Lance's but then ends up being fizzy drinks and maybe root beer and beer and all different colours and opacities of drink, which is very important and tricky when you come to think of how it works. And again, I saw this. I saw Lance do this firstly in one of his TV specials and just was completely fried by it.

Speaker 1: 58:01

It's so, so impossible, impossible, so magical. Everything is handed out, everything is tasted, oh yeah. And then at the end, the best bit, this carton where you're thinking okay, there must be some sort of crazy contraption inside this carton. You just poured six different drinks out, six, seven, eight different drinks, and there must be all these tubes whirling around this carton. You give the carton to the kid and I think Lance actually just rips it open, just completely rips it up. There is nothing inside there, so no idea how it worked you know,

Speaker 1: 58:37

and it was always one of my dream routines I'd love to do and it seems to just be the perfect calling. When James and I were writing my show Genie, which was all about making wishes come true, it just all came together and we played around with it and it was so, so much fun to to go back to Jim's original version of this routine and, um, yeah, I created something, we created something quite different and, um, without talking method, I didn't want a table as part of the routine, so we got rid of it, which you know was challenging, but I was quite happy with the solution we ended up with Finishing with all the drinks handed out and tasted and being real drinks. Um, yeah, it was a very, very fun routine to perform. It felt like you were always sort of on the edge in terms of this is like really on the cliff. It could all fall apart. If you know you also, I was very much at the beginning of really being comfy speaking on stage, which this is not a good trick, I don't think, if you aren't really comfy holding a room and sort of not bulldozing people. But, like you know, there's a lot of suggestion when this routine is at its best, I think you know, and you're taking a lot of chances and risks and sort of getting yourself out of holes if you need be. Um, so this is a routine I would love to pick up and do now, but, having said that, I still had so much fun with it. Something that really comes to mind I feel very lucky.

Speaker 1: 1:00:19

Now, looking back, is that, um, I got to spend time with the late, great, great, david Burglass. He offered to give his thoughts on my show and what I thought was going to be a few hours ended up being we. I went with James. James was very good friends with David. We went round to his house in the afternoon. I thought we'd be there a couple of hours. We were still there in the early hours of the morning and, of course, before we left, edward name a card and I had that story, but that's a whole other podcast. Yeah, I didn't have the show at this point. We just sort of written a loose script, but David wanted me to read every word that I had drafted and take him through it and every line. He would stop me and have an idea, a suggestion, and it was just like a master class in you know how to get more out of every moment.

Speaker 1: 1:01:16

But I particularly remember this routine, the number of touches he had and just ways of making it seem absolutely impossible to get extra beat. Just the tweak of a word, the way you ask a question.

Speaker 3: 1:01:32

Yeah, I feel very, very lucky to have that, to have had that time with david well, it's such a wonderful routine and there's been so many versions of it over the years. Uh, most recently in Darren's show Unbelievable in the West End, simon Lipkin did a version with cocktail shakers and that looked full-on, uh, if I can put it that way. If anyone wanted to start their journey into looking at this routine or this trick, where, where would you suggest they start looking?

Speaker 1: 1:02:06

There are sort of two different tricks here. There's any drink called for and hospitality. Hospitality is, in a way, jim Steinmeier's modern version of this that is a bit more practical. That's the routine I saw Lance Burton do and that is in one of Jim's manuscripts. I believe you can only get it direct from Jim, but it's called modern art and other mysteries. So hospitality is sort of a secondary trick in this manuscript, because modern art is one of his big illusions that you are receiving the plans for in this.

Speaker 1: 1:02:40

Um, and do you know what? Actually, even in his instructions, it doesn't really give you everything you need. You know, I don't want to reveal too much, but I think that's kind of good in a way it's. It is one of those things that you should make your own. You don't want to do it how Lance Burton did it or how Jim Steinmeier talks about it. Like, I think there's so much room in that routine and, yes, simon's version in Unbelievable was beautiful and of course Jim Starmie was a consultant on that, which I'm sure is no coincidence. Um, but yeah, I think not having all the answers straight away is good, and having to do a little bit of work or a lot of work means you're going to end up with something that not everyone else can do, let alone we'll put the time into yeah I don't actually know if there are any other resources.

Speaker 1: 1:03:35

One of the things james and I try and do when creating is you know, see what's out there. But as soon as we know a method from something, try and forget about it altogether so that you're not. It's very easy just to become a carbon copy of these amazing routines that you're seeing. Um, one moment that springs to mind it's not on my list, but I remember learning the floating ball for a show with louis de matos's hookup, and I didn't even watch the whole dv DVD through once. I watched some of it and then, because Luis is brilliant and has great movements, but James actually said, no, let me now watch it again. So we get the mechanics, but you find your own movements with it, and that's so important.

Speaker 1: 1:04:20

It's so easy now to watch a DVD and copy someone exactly how they present it. And you know, I remember Derren Brown coming to the Young Magicians Club and saying that is how you should start, and I think that's true. Like I was a Lance Burton clone, I'm sure I became a bit of a Derren Brown clone when you know he was my one of my next big inspirations. But then it's time to find your own voice, and so I think the more you can step away from just doing a routine as you're seeing it done and anything that pushes you to do that, is good.

Speaker 3: 1:04:50

Well, it's a great choice, Again, another one that I'm sure no one could have predicted in terms of your list, which is great, but it does bring us, sadly, onto number eight. So what was in your final position?

Speaker 1: 1:05:02

So this is the only one of the list that is probably something I will never do, but it's something that has to be in my list and it is marco carvo's finale. So marco carvo is a world champion magician from finland and he it's hard to describe him and do him justice. He has a bird act, but if you've never seen him like, it is the act of all acts. So, um, he has kind of a classical beginning with, you know, the dove appearing and flying around and he produces five dove. I don't want to go through beat by bit, there's no point. There is videos of his act out there Again, that won't do him justice.

Speaker 1: 1:05:51

But the finale that I'm talking about is where he basically produces cages of increasing size, followed by a larger and larger bird to go with that cage, finishing with a cockatoo and a macaw, these enormous parrots which fly over the audience and come back to him. But even more specifically so, the first time I ever saw him was 2011, at the London Palladium, and this moment towards the end, where this cockatoo, this beautiful white parrot with a spiky yellow mohawk, literally appears in midair that is what it looks like. It flies around the audience twice, even over the royal circle and lands back with marco. But, critically, marco's back is now turned. You don't notice him turning around because you're watching this parrot fly over your head, but it is just the coolest moment. He then turns around. You can see the bond this parrot has with Marco. He does a little dance, looks so happy and then goes in inside the massive cage.

Speaker 1: 1:07:08

But that moment of that cockatoo flying over my head literally changed my life. Like I'm not exaggerating, at that point 2011 so I'd been doing my dove act for a few years. I'd won the Young Magicians Club stage competition. I thought I was decent. You know, and as a kid you know you win a competition. Everyone tells you you're amazing. You sort of believe that hype. I remember sitting there like in awe after seeing Marco and just having that feeling like I knew nothing Like he had taken it to such high a level that I just couldn't comprehend how you could achieve any of what he was doing.

Speaker 1: 1:07:52

Just his movements, every little detail of the act was just like oh my gosh, I've never seen anything like this. I just want to watch it again and again, and again. And I think it's what happens when you dedicate your life to an act. You know that's literally what he has dedicated his life on for the last 40 plus years and that's how you become the best in the world. Um, and I guess I, and I guess I just you know I was so in awe, I just want to know more about him. And I was part of the team that was got to go backstage.

Speaker 1: 1:08:39

And yeah, after the show, I remember just going up to him and ask because I'd had some experience of traveling with my birds just to France for a convention, and it was a nightmare and I just had doves.

Speaker 1: 1:08:48

He's got a budgie, a cockatiel, a cockatoo, a macaw and the doves. And I remember just I just asked him how do you travel with your birds? Because he was from Finland and there's a few moments where I've asked him a question, he's just like, fooled me with inspiration, but this was the first one. He just looked at me and said their family and it was like, of course, like no, nothing else more needed, right, like, and it was the first time because I've always really loved my doves and treated them like that. But it's the first time because I've always really loved my doves and treated them like that. But it's the first time I've ever met another dove magician say that and made it clear they feel the same as I do. You know, and yeah, I guess that's just such a profound moment and also the fact that you know, in my mind there is no one that does it better than Marco, and the fact that he has that mentality.

Speaker 3: 1:09:52

I think there's no coincidence between those two, that point of view and how it comes across on stage and it's lovely that you've picked a piece that you said that it's not necessarily something that you perform, but you just love it that much and you enjoy watching it that much. That's all, that's all that you need. I think that's really, really nice and it's a lovely way to round off your list. We started with birds, we're ending with birds, which is great, a full circle moment. So just reading it back, we've got lance burton stavat, we've got silver professor's nightmare, the magician's assistant, egg mag, you've been framed hospitality and marco carvo's finale. What a truly eclectic mix of tricks that we've had there. I think, in terms of a photographer taking a photograph of your show, that's going to be a superb amount of different images for your marketing, I think.

Speaker 1: 1:10:50

You know, just because you mentioned that, I think there's someone I have to mention that was a huge, huge influence on me and that was Joni Spina, and she's best known in the magic world as being David Copperfield's artistic director for many years. She's sadly no longer with us, but she judged a competition I did out in America and we just bonded and she gave me so much advice and help over the years. And it's funny you say that because that's one of the big things she used to say is that imagine, as a photographer, at the back of the room taking a photo what do you want the album to look like? Just because most magicians aren't trained actors, they have had no performance classes. She was a beautifully trained dancer, understood it all, but had this amazing way of being able to communicate that to us idiot magicians that knew no stagecraft.

Speaker 1: 1:11:51

And what this great bit of advice did was what do you want your album to look like? Or photos after the show? And what that does is it makes you think about varying those images that you create on stage, pausing when it's important, which is so, so important not to rush through an important beat. Let a moment sink in and just think about that in a different way. I'd never thought about it till she said it, and it's one of those bits of advice I've passed on to many performers that I've worked with. And, yeah, I think it's lovely that you noticed that, even without me thinking about it, so it's nice that Joni is still with us in that way.

Speaker 3: 1:12:31

Well, that's a lovely moment to end on before we get controversial, because, edward, there is a spade on your island and you're about to dig a big sandy hole and you're going to banish something sandy hole and you're gonna banish something in there. So what did you banish from our industry?

Speaker 1: 1:12:49

I am banishing gags that put an audience member down for a cheap laugh. I think it's very, very easy. I've definitely done it and I try not to do it. But I think, particularly when you're starting out, it's very easy to make a little joke at an audience member's expense, that the rest of the audience go find it funny, but it's just the lowest form of comedy and ultimately what you're doing is you're making someone on stage feel uncomfortable for the sake of you feeling a bit more comfortable. I think, thankfully, you do see it less, but I still see it, and you see professionals do more comfortable. I think, thankfully, you do see it less, but I still see it and you see professionals do it.

Speaker 1: 1:13:26

I'm not going to call anyone out, but there is maybe a type of personality that can get away with it a little bit. But I don't know if it was a conscious goal. It certainly is now. But when I started doing shows and going to the Edinburgh Festival, um, I really wanted audience members that came on stage to help me to have a better experience than those that came, than those that didn't, because I have faced, as I'm sure we all have, audience members not wanting to join us, even in a close-up environment, not wanting to take part, and that is because of us as a community making fun of the audience, not making them comfortable and, actually like my, when I did my last show in Edinburgh six years ago now, someone came up to me after the show and said I wanted to come up on stage and help you. I was like, oh my gosh, that you know.

Speaker 1: 1:14:19

I hadn't really thought about it for a while. Obviously that wasn't in the back of my mind putting together this show. But isn't that what we want audiences to think? I want to be next not please, god, don't pick me looking down when you go into the audience and yeah, I just think we'd all be in a much better position if we all appreciated our audiences rather than do any of that stuff yep, I think that's a great banishment.

Speaker 3: 1:14:48

I think you're, you're on the money and, exactly like you just said, it's within our entire industry's interest that we're nice to spectators and we don't just just to add to what you just said, I also think using audience members as props which I've seen some performance do literally you're here, you know they've just done a lot of good for you and for our art form, you know. So I think extending it to just treating your audience members with respect, I think is really important.

Speaker 1: 1:15:36

Absolutely, and it's where it's coming from, isn't it? And I think it's the laziness within magic and I say I've definitely done it. You know, hold up, hold it. Yeah, think it's the laziness within magic and I say, like I've definitely done it. You know, hold up, hold it. Yeah, I know the clean one, you know those sorts. That's a very light-hearted version. There are extreme versions but, like, anything that makes them feel uncomfortable for me is unnecessary, because I think it, in the worst case, will create audiences of people that don't want to take part and ultimately don't want to see magic in the future. And I think magic is one of those weird industries where if they see a magician they don't like, they go. We don't like magicians, no, we don't like that performer. You know, people don't seem to separate someone's talent as a magician from magic, someone's talent as a magician from magic. So, yeah, we all have to deal with the consequences of each other, I think.

Speaker 3: 1:16:31

Well, I think that's a great banishment. That's good. We've buried that in our sandy hole and it's gone for good. But we do have two items now, so you're only allowed one each of these one book and one non-magic item that you use for magic. So what did you put in your book position?

Speaker 1: 1:16:52

I honestly found this the hardest out of everything to pick one book, because the truth is I've got a huge library of books that I love and books that I love for different reasons. So I hope this isn't a cop-out, but I have gone with the book I'm reading at the moment, which I am loving, and it is Jonathan Goodwin's life. I guess is the best way to describe it is everything inside it. It's called methods to my madness, and Jonathan is someone that I guess his tv, his tv career, started as I was really getting serious into magic, so I grew up seeing everything he did and becoming a huge fan. I remember him coming to one of the shows I was in and being incredibly nervous that he was in the audience and meeting him afterwards and him being lovely, um, but just, he's someone I've genuinely blown away with.

Speaker 1: 1:17:47

Everything he has done, he has evolved. He made escapology cool and makes sense and all the way up to the biggest touring shows, um, and this book is literally everything it feels so generous I've only got up to. So the book starts with his biography and he talks about for him you know, if you want, you just go into the method section, but for him anyone that he finds interesting. Actually, their journey into their craft is just as interesting, and knowing why they made the decisions they made. Well, if you know what they were like as a kid and how they grew up and experiences they had, you have that window into their world and everything else makes a bit more sense. And so I've just finished reading the biography section and getting into the methods. But even just that, it's so fascinating hearing his life journey and, um, yeah, he's an incredible human being and I am loving the book yeah, he is.

Speaker 3: 1:18:52

He's someone really we need to get on the podcast because I think he would have such an interesting mix of tricks. But that does bring us onto your item. So what did you put in your item spot? So?

Speaker 1: 1:19:07

I picked a puppy has that come up before? And so I've always had dogs growing up. Dogs are great, and this is related to magic, because I created a video. It's been about 10 years ago now and my nan got a puppy, a little Bichon Maltese cross called Kevin, and at eight weeks old we all fell in love with him and of course, my next thought was well, I need to make a video. So I created a little video of Kevin appearing from a paper bag.

Speaker 1: 1:19:47

I mean, I know we're not talking about methods here, but I think it's pretty straightforward. Obviously it wasn't really a magic video. It was just an excuse to get my nan's eight-week-old puppy onto my social media. I mean, I nearly got expelled from the magic that's. That was the end result of this puppy video. Um, I don't know how much down that rabbit hole you want to go, but, long story short, I'm still in the magic circle. I think I made my point quite clearly and um, yeah, so I think having a puppy when you're stranded on this desert island would just make those bad days feel great, because you know you can feel pretty down, but that can only last so long when you've got a little puppy running around giving you kisses, playing with you, so I would love to take a puppy, please. Is that allowed? Puppy, please, is that allowed?

Speaker 3: 1:20:40

You can take your puppy and you've already got all your birds there because you've got your Dove Act. Well, Lance Burton's Dove Act, but yours as well.

Speaker 1: 1:20:52

So that's already there. I can send messages to their little feet and let them fly away, and yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:20:57

There you go. You're going to be like the Dr Dolittle of magicians.

Speaker 1: 1:21:03

I would love that, especially if Marco's parrots can come with me too. Well, they're there as well. They would definitely hate me because they are his babies, but I would happily try and gain their trust.

Speaker 3: 1:21:15

Well, that's a great, great list. So we've got Lance Button, Stavlak, Silva, Professor's Nightmare Magicians this Isn't An Egg Bag, You've Been Framed. Hospitality, Marco Car silver. Professor's nightmare magicians this isn't an egg bag, you've been framed. Hospitality, marco carvo's finale. You would banish gags that put down audience members. Your book is jonathan goodwin's methods to my madness, and your item to take is a cute little puppy I'm happy with that.

Speaker 1: 1:21:36

I think I wouldn't get too bored on desert island. I mean, I've got plenty of drinks I can produce. I might get a bit hungry.

Speaker 3: 1:21:44

Now, if people want to find out more about you, Edward, or find out about shows that you've got going on, all of that good stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:21:53

Where can they go? I am Edward Hillson on all your favourite socials, so yeah, you can find me there. I have a if you're interested in shows. There are a few things potentially coming up and I have a mail list on my website, so that's probably the best place if you want to see me live. I don't spam people. I send out two or three emails a year just with upcoming dates. So, yeah, if you're interested in that website.

Speaker 3: 1:22:17

Otherwise, edward hillson on all the socials well, last year you did your show at the magic circle, which I was gutted I couldn't get to, um, so hopefully they allow you back there at some point, because I'd really love to get there to see it.

Speaker 1: 1:22:32

Yeah, I love the magic so, like I said, it sort of feels like home, the first stage I ever performed on, and, um, yeah, I love performing there, so, fingers crossed we can do it again yeah, I very much hope so.

Speaker 3: 1:22:44

Thank you so much for your time, edward.

Speaker 1: 1:22:47

Thanks for having me, it's been a pleasure.

Speaker 3: 1:22:49

It's been a lovely, lovely list and thank you all for listening. Of course we will be back next week with our next Desert Island Tricks and, remember, you can put in your list. So if you want to send in your list, we do have Stranded with a Stranger on Monday, so send in your list to sales at alakazamcouk. Put in the subject line your desert island list and don't forget you get to banish now. So send in your list with your banishment, your book, your item and your eight tricks and we'll get one of those recorded for you. So thank you all again. Again, thanks to edward. Do go check out the young magicians club, do go check out edward's socials and do check out when he has shows on, because you'll probably see me in the audience, no doubt, because I really, really, really really want to see you've been framed. So, with that being said, I hope you all have a wonderful week and we'll see you again next week. Goodbye.

Speaker 2: 1:23:51

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Speaker 2: 1:24:31

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