Desert Island Tricks
Each week we invite one of the biggest guests in the world of magic to maroon themselves on a desert island. They are allowed to take with them 8 tricks, 1 book, 1 banishment and 1 non magic item that they use for magic! We discuss their 'can't live without' lists and why those items were chosen.
Episodes are uploaded every Friday and are available via all Podcast service providers!
To find out more about the team behind Desert Island Tricks, please visit: www.alakazam.co.uk
Desert Island Tricks
John Archer
In this weeks episode, comedy magic legend John Archer takes us on an unexpected journey through his magical influences and philosophy. Rather than showcasing his signature repertoire, John reveals the eight effects he'd take to a desert island, most of which he's never performed professionally.
What makes this episode particularly fascinating is John's vulnerable admission about why he doesn't perform certain tricks: "If I see a trick done so well that I think I couldn't do it better, then I don't want to do it." This refreshing honesty leads to wonderful stories about watching Andy Nyman's "Sophie" trick, being mesmerised by Harry Blackstone Jr.'s Floating Light Bulb, and appreciating the masterful comedy of Bob Reed's Knife Through Coat routine.
The episode delivers a masterclass in performance philosophy when John introduces his "FIRE" principle, ensuring every moment of a routine is either Funny, Interesting, Relevant, or Entertaining. This approach transforms even the procedural aspects of magic into engaging moments. "A lot of the time the process is relevant," John explains, "but just relevant on its own isn't often enough."
Between colourful anecdotes about his early days at Alan Alan's Magic Spot and a mysterious American magician who bought him his first Rainbow Cascade, John offers invaluable insights for performers of all experience levels. His passionate banishment of what he call’s "karaoke magic" and in particular the Vanishing Bandana, it provokes thought about originality versus imitation in performance.
Whether you're a seasoned magician or simply curious about the psychology behind great entertainment, John's practical wisdom, delivered with his signature humour and sincerity, will transform how you think about creating meaningful moments for audiences.
John’s Desert Island Tricks:
- Crazy Mans Handcuffs
- Rainbow Cascade
- Tossed Out Deck
- Invisible Deck
- Sophie Trick
- Floating Light bulb
- Knife Through Coat
- Aerial Fishing
Banishment. The Vanishing Bandana
Book. The Amateur Magicians Handbook
Item. Ukulele
Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
And while I was there, an American magician I wish I knew who he was. I don't know who this guy was and he came in and was chatting to Alan, and he got chatting to me. Maybe I would have been about 21, 22 then. And he said have you ever been to Davenport? I said no, what's that? He said, oh, it's another magic shop. And I went wow, london's got another magic shop. He said yeah, yeah. He said I'm going there now. Do you want to come? I said yeah, all right. So we got on a tube together.
Speaker 1:This guy I wish I knew his name, I'd love to have been able to get back in touch with him and we went to Davenport. So we went in and he started getting the guy. It was this Scottish guy, I think he might have been called Fergus, who used to work there to me oh, have you got the first copy of the Jinx magazine? And he went, yeah, and he went and got it. He said you should get this. There's a great trick in there called Dr Jack's Four Blacks. He said you'll love it. He said you should get that. I went all right, I'm thinking I'm a student, I can't afford to buy all this stuff. And then he said, oh, show him Rainbow Cascade. And I went, wow, you know, it's got a few moves in it. You know it's not easy. And he could tell that I wasn't really a magician. And this American guy said he said no, no, he showed me some stuff at Alan's Magic Spot. He can do it.
Speaker 1:He'll be able to work it out and there was seven or eight items that he sort of said you should get this, you should get this. And then I saw I went, oh, and this guy bought Rainbow Cascade for me. He bought the first issue of Jinx and he paid for it all and I said thanks very much. I thought I'm going to have to sleep with him now.
Speaker 3:Something's going on. Hello and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. We have a guest who I am incredibly excited to talk to. This gentleman is someone who I have watched growing up through my career and I've watched all of his DVDs. I've owned many of his products and the interesting thing is I know that a lot of you listening will be in the same boat. And one of his tricks soundbox. Um, I've been trying to get the props for for a couple of months because I think it's a phenomenal trick. Now you would have seen him as the first faller on pen and teller fallers, which was well, it feels like an age ago now because there's so many series of them, but his routine was so funny, so well put together. I think it really captured magicians and public's imaginations and no wonder it's now a staple in so many people's repertoires. So I'm very, very excited to speak to this man. I don't really need to give him any more of an introduction than that, because he is who he is. It is Mr John Archer. Hello, john.
Speaker 1:Hey, hey, hey, great to be here. Jamie, thanks for having me. I've got a soft spot for Peter Nardi and Alakazam magic. It's a little swamp near Leeds actually. No, I have. I've genuinely got a soft spot because Peter Nardi really launched me to the magic world. He sort of I wasn't, nobody knew who I was and he said, do you want to do a DVD? And I thought I might as well. And I did that first DVD Educating Archer, and all of a sudden I was getting asked to appear here, there and everywhere and magic conventions around the world and all sorts of stuff. So it's all his fault.
Speaker 3:If anybody hates me, um, blame peter nardy, not me well, those dvds were phenomenal educating archer and further education, as well as collard, which was just a wonderful routine as well. Those are still so much fun to watch and I urge anyone who hasn't seen those dvds if you're new into the industry, if you've just not seen them before please seek them out, because they are phenomenally funny. Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1:I did enjoy doing them as well, just sort of uh, I mean it was.
Speaker 1:It was back in the day when it was all a bit more low-key the way they were recorded it, just um, but yeah it was, it was great fun and, uh, the good thing about it was all a bit more low-key the way they were recording it, just um, but yeah it was, it was great fun and, uh, the good thing about it was this um, because I've never done any dvds before, uh, I had like all my work in repertoire to pick from, so it's, and, and because everything I try and do I try and do original or put my own spin on it, it meant I had quite a lot of stuff to put out.
Speaker 1:So those first two dvds are, you know, the full of, uh, full of gold, if I may say so myself without sounding too immodest. But yeah, there's some good stuff on there and stuff I still do still do today. But most of the stuff on there I still uh, do you know, I would think a good 70, 80 percent of it still regularly performing the thing that we found to be the most beneficial from those dvds wasn't actually the tricks.
Speaker 3:It was watching your performance and seeing how quick you were to adapt to situations and the lines that you use. Some of the jokes that you used it was more your performance, I think. I mean the tricks are, don't get me wrong, but watching you perform. It's a masterclass in comedy performance and owning the stage and even routining tricks so that they make sense and you get the by-play around them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, watching any performer, any performer you like and you admire, the secret is to sort of try and learn from what they're doing and then make it your own and not try and copy them, which some people do.
Speaker 3:Now, with such a massive I mean you mentioned your absolute I'm guessing sea of material at this point. How difficult was it putting your list together with all of the material that you have and all of the tricks that you enjoy?
Speaker 1:Well, it wasn't difficult putting my list together, because more than half of the tricks are tricks that I've never performed and I never will perform. But if I was on a desert island I'd love to be able to perform, and I'll explain that a bit later. I listen to this podcast a lot. I've listened a lot and a lot of people use tricks that they do in their show and talk about that, and I do like a lot of my tricks. But really the tricks I like the most are tricks that I would never perform and I'll explain why when we get to them. But yeah, so I didn't find it too difficult. Really. There was some obvious ones for me that were easy to put in and then, yeah, just sort of a little bit of thinking.
Speaker 1:I thought that the problem is not thinking, not trying to think of eight. It's trying to think of all the ones. It's trying to eliminate, all the ones that you'd love to put in that you can't. It's not that eight's a difficult number, it's a limiting number. There's loads and loads of great effects out there. There's no shortage of great effects. It's great presentations that are harder to find, great routines that you know. Making those great effects your own. That's more difficult, I think.
Speaker 3:Well, anyone who's playing John Archer bingo at this point, he may have just automatically ticked off some of the ones that you had on your list by accident. So this is going to be interesting, you know what I reckon.
Speaker 1:On my list there is only one trick that people would be able to possibly guess. The rest they wouldn't associate with me at all. I don't think.
Speaker 3:Wow, for me it would. If I was to guess that one and no confirmations, it would have to be Blank. Okay, straight face because you can see me.
Speaker 1:I can see you, john. You can see me straight face Watch. Look, this is my straight face.
Speaker 3:It's a very good straight face.
Speaker 1:It's resting club. Face that.
Speaker 3:I think it's Blank, blank night. It has to be blank night. He's given nothing away. Great, good job. So if this is your first time listening to the podcast, the idea is we're about to whisk john away to his very own desert island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks. He's allowed to banish one thing, take one book and one non-magic item that he uses for magic. I'm still getting used to saying the banishment bit. Um, particulars things like who's there, what's there? All of that good stuff we do not mind, it's in john's own imagination. This is basically the list of tricks that he could not live without. So, with that being said, let's find out what's in spot number one. What did you put in spot number one, john?
Speaker 1:spot number one. Um, I've got a couple of things from my close-up days in years gone by. I haven't done a close-up gig for, I would guess, 15 to 20 years now A proper, you know, a paid, strolling, table-hopping type close-up gig. But I used to do it a lot. I used to do a lot of kids' shows. I used to do a lot of close-up shows. Kids' shows were the first thing that went, and then close-up shows. Kid's shows were the first thing that went and then close-up went after that. Basically, just so I can concentrate more on what I really want to do, which is stand-up and cabaret.
Speaker 1:But one of my go-to close-up tricks was Crazy Man's Handcuffs. What I love about it is it's very, very recognizable, non magic props to to, you know, rubber bands. Um, I say rubber bands for the American listers, elastic bands for the British listers, but Americans get confused with that phrase. Um, but yeah, just two rubber bands. It's you know, it can be repeated, you can do it several times. But yeah, just two rubber bands, it can be repeated, you can do it several times. I used to do it three times, just strengthening the phase each time. Well, not really strengthening it, but just letting them observe slightly more each time. Third time I would do it on their fingers and the effect is very simply, two rubber bands that are behind each other end up melting through each other and not being behind each other anymore, held on your fingers.
Speaker 1:A lot of people it's been attributed to Dan Harlan, herb Zarro, michael Amar, but it was actually Arthur Setterington from Holt who came up with it originally and not a lot of people know that. And Arthur Setterington was a lovely I say a lovely old man because I only knew him when he was old. He was probably a lovely young man but a really creative guy from Home Magic Club originally came up with it, and then it's sort of other people. I think Herb Zarrow might have been the first one who took it on, and then Michael Amara and Dan Harlan. But uh, yeah, just just a great effect. And uh, you know, I used to have some rubber bands around my wrist and you can go straight into it.
Speaker 1:It was the one thing that I mean. Everyday carry didn't exist when I was doing it that phrase but that was one thing that was part of my everyday carry. It was a few elastic bands, normally either around my wrist that used to look a bit odd, or it would be. They'd just be wrapped around the card box. I'd have a deck of cards, some rubber bands around them and maybe a packet trick which we might talk about later. And that was it really. I had three or four tricks in my pocket. I don't tend to do that now because I don't really perform informally unless my wife nags me to. But I tend not to take magic out with me unless, like I say, I'm cajoled into it.
Speaker 3:And in terms of obviously we're not going to talk methods, but in terms of the version that you do have you always just done the original? Because obviously in years gone by there are different moves and different advancements. Of course we had crazy sam's handcuffs which came out a couple of years ago, which lots of people enjoyed as a different take on it, but have you always done the traditional version?
Speaker 1:um, I have always done the additional version. I did. I did get crazy Sam's version, which is lovely, I mean, it's just very cleverly deceptive. When you realize what's going on, you go, wow, I can't believe it looks so real and I've played around with that. But the truth is I'm a bit of a lover of simplicity. I like simplicity in effect, and I like simplicity in plot and simplicity in presentation.
Speaker 1:Really, um, and often I don't want to start throwing in other variations I'm not really a big fan of of kickers. You know, in mental as'm not. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just me, this is just. You know how I am, it's not. I don't think it's wrong, it's just for me. You know I'm not a big fan of.
Speaker 1:Here's the reveal. And now look, it's also written on the back of my shoe. And if you look at the back of the theatre, there's a video of me, you know, walking down that street eight weeks ago. And you know, if you all go out, you know it's great for some people, but for me I just quite like. Here's the setup, there's the reveal. Thank you very much. Let's move on.
Speaker 1:And it's the same with close-up routines. Really, I sort of, you know, I just like a nice simple plot that people describe in a sentence, which is why I've really just stuck to that. You know, it's the same method and I do it three ways. I have other rubber band effects that I will sometimes do before it, just you know, band jumping from two fingers to another two fingers, uh and uh, I also might do the snapping band and restoring it, um, in fact. But but really, if I do, if I do the crazy man's handcuffs, which I think was Dan Harlan that named it, that was it. Oh, michael Lamar, one of them named it crazy man's handcuffs. I don't think it was Arthur that named it, that was it. Oh, michael Lamar, one of them named it Crazy Man's Handcuffs. I don't think it was Arthur that named it that. But if I do that effect, then it is just the basic show them behind and bring them out, and then repeating it twice, I finished with the spectator holding it on their two fingers. That's the third phase.
Speaker 3:But yeah, pretty straightforward, pretty straightforward really well, it's a great opening gambit and, again, like you said, it's not one that I would have predicted for you, which is really interesting. And you've also just teased accidentally, a future one by saying a packet trick that we might speak about later. So, uh, what did you put in position number two?
Speaker 1:uh, well, it's not that much later, because we're going to speak about it now. It's my packet trick. I've experimented and played with lots and lots of packet tricks. One that I used to do this isn't the one, but I used to like the drink trick. Was it Eddie Gibson? I'm trying to remember the name. It wasn't Eddie Gibson, it was Eddie who did the drink trick. Was it Eddie Gibson? I'm trying to remember the name. It wasn't Eddie Gibson, it was Eddie who did the drink trick, which I saw Paul Daniels do.
Speaker 1:It was the one where you're basically just doing a buckle count constantly and telling the story about playing a game of cards in a pub and the cards change to aces, and then the backs change, and then they all, and then you say why are you? And then the backs change again, and then the backs change again and it's uh, it's, the amount of changes in it are phenomenal. Um, but uh, I thought I was in and out with that one, but. But my packet trick of choice and again it was one that was a staple for me when I was doing close-up is Roy Walton's Rainbow Cascade, and what I like about it is it hammers home a belief in the viewer, the audience. It's a twist in the Aces type plot really. You have four cards that are the same. You show four cards, you turn one over and the bottom card turns itself over, and then you show that all the cards have turned themselves face down. And then you turn one face up and the bottom card turns face up and then they all turn face up. You do it a third time so the audience are convinced they've seen the faces and backs of all four Jack of Diamonds or whatever card you're using and then you vanish one of the cards and it comes back face up. Then the all turn face up again and then you reveal that the backs of every card are now multicoloured, sort of holographic um coloring on the back. It's just like really bright, and the thing I like about it is it's so bright and vivid, that holographic material, that um, that they use for the cards, that it's almost like how did you find that? It's almost like you're trying to hide a flashing light, um, um. And people always grab the cards whenever, whenever I do it, and they always grab, they always want to look and you know, see, how did that card change and the sort of feeling it? Um, uh yeah, it's just got a beauty about it. And I remember the first time I saw this it was a lovely thing I was at Alan Allen's magic spot.
Speaker 1:Alan Allen sort of was responsible for getting me into magic. I studied at Central School of Art and Design, which is now called Central St Martins because it teamed up with St Martins College of Art. But the Central School of Art used to be well, it still is on the corner of corner of Hoban, just up from the tube station on Southampton Row, and that was just literally a few hundred yards away from where Alan Allen's magic spot used to be. And I had a vague interest in magic. I didn't do any tricks really, apart from a coin vanish, but I liked magic and I liked practical jokes and I started going to Alan's magic spot a few times a week really, because it was across the road from Alan College. I wouldn't have any lectures, I'd be bored with learning how to be a product designer. So I used to go there and Alan you know for those who knew him, he was crazy, but he was lovely as well. He was very generous in his sharing of ideas and thoughts and performance tips and, as I got to know him, quite often he would throw everybody else out and lock the door and you'd just be there for two hours him talking about one particular trick and going through all the psychology and nuances of it. And I loved it there, him talking about one particular trick and go through all the psychology and nuances of it, um, and you know I loved it there and I went there all the time really, and uh, eventually I went from buying practical jokes to, uh, I think he sold me a Cone Unique, and then he sold me a Sangali deck, and then he then he started selling me a few books, um, and more books and more books.
Speaker 1:I think I spent all of my student grant, which is, I mean, that's an enigma. Now, when you talk about a student grant, you have to get a loan, don't you? But we actually got given money in those days to go and study. I spent most of my student grant on magic tricks and books. Got a terrible degree but got well educated in magic. But I was there one day I think it was probably a Saturday, which was unusual because I was at college then and while I was there, an American magician. I wish I knew who he was. I don't know who this guy was, but he was American for sure. And he came in and was chatting to Alan and he got chatting to me, you know, and I would be. Maybe I would have been about 21, 22.
Speaker 1:Then I don't know how old this guy where I was, he was probably in his 40s and he said have you ever been to Davenport? And of course I didn't, course I was into magic, I didn't really know anything about magic. I said no, what's that? He said, oh, it's another magic shop. And I went wow, london's got another magic shop. He said yeah, yeah. He said it's down by Charing Cross Tube Station. He said I'm going there now. Do you want to come? And I said, yeah, all right. You know, I mean probably a bit strange, just a random bloke asking me to go out on a date with him. But, um, you know it was magic. And I said, yeah, all right. So so we got on a tube together. This guy I wish I knew his name. I'd love to have been able to get back in touch with him. Um and um, we went. We went to Davenport, so we went in and he started getting the guy.
Speaker 1:It was this Scottish guy, I think he might have been called Fergus, who used to work there and all the Scottish guys died now sadly. He had a bit of a stutter, I remember that, and a lovely, lovely fella, and he sort of said to him oh, have you got the first copy of the Jigs magazine? And he went, yeah, and he went and got it. He went great, great. He said you should get this and it was just like you know, yellowed, faded, old 1950s Jigs magazine issue number one. He said you should get this.
Speaker 1:There's a great trick in there called Dr Jack's Four Blacks. He said you'll love it. He said you should get that. I went, alright, I'm thinking I'm a student, I can't afford to buy all this stuff. And then, and then he said he said, oh, show him, show him Rainbow Cascade. So Fergus went and got Rainbow Cascade, took it out of the little plastic bag and performed it for me and I went wow, that's great. He said you should get that.
Speaker 1:And I remember this guy, fergus, sort of saying well, you know, it's got a few moves in it, you know it's not easy. And he could tell that I wasn't really a magician. And this American guy said he said no, no, he showed me some stuff at Alan's Magic Spot. You know he can do it, he'll be able to work it out. So that came down and, anyway, a few other things, and there was seven or eight items that he sort of said you should get this, you should get this.
Speaker 1:And then I saw I went oh great, I love all that. I went to pay. He said no, no, I'm getting them all for you. And this guy bought Rainbow Cascade for me. He bought the first issue of Jinx, I can't remember what else. To be honest, the other things have just weren't that important to me.
Speaker 1:And he paid for it all and I said thanks very much. I thought I'm going to have to sleep with him now. Something's going on and it wasn't. He sort of went outside and got to the tube station. He went, great, he said have fun with them, I hope it all works out for you. I said thanks very much and he disappeared and I really regret not. You know it, and I really regret not. You know it wasn't the days of mobile phones and emails and all of that and social media. It was. You know, you sort of had to get somebody's name and address really if you wanted to keep in touch and we never did that, you know, and hopefully maybe there's a slim, slim chance. Well, if he's still alive, bless him. Maybe he'd hear this and say, hey, that was me, but yeah. So that's the story of how I ended up doing Rainbow Cascade. And I remember getting back and going, oh it's gone, it's gone.
Speaker 1:You have to learn a thing or hold an Annesley count. Where do I learn that? And it had a brief description. Yeah, I remember, you know, sat maybe for a week just practicing that thing, and then years later realizing, oh, you can do it, you can do it this way. You don't have to do it at your fingertips, you can do it in a deeper grip and just finessing. The one count which is all you really need for that trick is a down sleep and five cards. Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3:I'm so glad that you mentioned Davenport's in that story, because we've spoken about Rainbow Cascade on the podcast before. Ah, right, okay, and it does seem to be. Uk magicians of a certain time were all shown Rainbow Cascade in Davenport's and everyone bought it because it was such a falling piece of magic, and it used to be. You used to have Rainbow Cascade. You used to have the coin through rubber with the glass. They always used to show that as well. It used to be the same three or four tricks, but everyone used to come out with them because they were all bangers. They were such good tricks. Yeah, it's a classic.
Speaker 1:It really is, and you know lots of other nice packet tricks, but there's something about that one and I always used to get them out and say you know, I have a favourite card and whatever it happened to be, whatever, you know, four cards I was given, because you never knew which card it was going to be, that they sent you when you ordered them, and I used to order three or four at a time, just like several sets, and I used to say, oh, you don't be all right. You know, the jack of spades is my favorite card. I'll tell you why. It's an acrobatic card. I know that sounds strange. It's the only one that can do this. And then I go into the routine.
Speaker 3:Um, but yeah, just just lovely, lovely, lovely trick and if anyone does happen to know who that person was maybe someone who was in the shop, or you know anyone? Please do get in contact with John, because it would be amazing to have that full circle moment and find out who he was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it would be nice. Yeah, he was obviously a big Magic fan, american, you know. I don't know why he was, so I actually A similar thing happened, exactly the same Once. I was in Alan Allen's magic shop and Bob Little came in. I didn't know who he was and Bob Little was obviously doing some magic convention nearby and he got chatted to me and a similar thing happened. He sort of Not quite the same, I mean he got money out to me and same thing. A similar thing happened. He saw not quite the same, I mean he got money out of me. But he said I am, I'm doing a magic convention.
Speaker 1:I didn't know about magic conventions either, I wasn't going to one, I wasn't going to it. And he went, I'm just staying around the corner. He said I've got all my stuff you know that in my suitcase if you want to come and see if there's anything you want. And again, I went to his hotel room and he opened the suitcase and I remember buying a few books off him and then never saw him. But he was so crazy that years later, when I was at a magic convention, I realised oh right, that's Bob Little. Yeah, that's who took me to his hotel and sold me some books.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you have a tendency to meet strange men at magic shows.
Speaker 1:I have a tendency, as straight as I am, men intensity, straight as I am, um men, even straight men, are attracted to me.
Speaker 3:Well, that brings us very swiftly onto number three. So what did you put in your third spot?
Speaker 1:Number three. Now, now, I suppose now would be a good time to let you out of your suspense. Um, you asked about, um, black night and it's not on my list. Um, um, I don't know the black knight, but, um, I'm sick to death of it. I don't, I don't want to take it on and there's a line with me I have to perform it everywhere I go. Um, but, but this next one is um, we're now moving away from close-up. This is the only trick that is in my repertoire. Uh, sorry, well, no, we're not, now we're. I'm jumping ahead of myself. I'm jumping ahead of myself, um, but we, we can go there now, and I will come back to another one which could be done close-up. Um, I'm uh, we'll go now to the only trick that is in my repertoire, which is the tossed-out deck by David Hoy, and I've done this professionally for over 30 years, I would guess I first saw it lectured at a convention, the Fellowship of Christian Magicians Convention, which is an odd idea for anybody to get their heads around.
Speaker 1:Magicians are weird enough. And then Christian magicians wow, you're really struggling, aren't you? But I was there and a guy lectured the TOS deck and I'd never seen it before and for me it seemed like real mind reading. The only thing I didn't like about it was the switch which happened with the DECA switch, and that was the only thing that I was really keen to change and solidify and I eventually came up with a switch that is actually on my first DVD it's on Educated Archer but it's such a clean effect and lots of people have changed it and done things with it. Some of them, I think, have changed it for the worse, some have changed it for the better, but Luke Chimay has some great work on the tossed out deck and really takes it to a different level. I've never played with Luke's ideas, mainly because of that reason I said earlier on of just I like simplicity and I like a bit of clarity and I don't really want to muddy things up with extra stuff.
Speaker 1:So I use the sort of standard version of you get a deck of cards, you throw it into the audience. You wrap bands around it. I do love rubber bands. I buy a lot of them. You wrap rubber bands around the deck. You throw it into the audience. Three people peek at a card, throw the deck back to you. You don't look at the deck again and you tell the three people what three cards they are thinking of, either individually or as a group. I do it as a group. I like that one moment of people sitting down. Some people do it and get each person to sit down separately.
Speaker 1:The thing that makes this trick really good is a trick that some people have removed from it and I think a lot of people don't realize why it's such a good trick. It's a great trick for a few reasons. First of all, you've got instant audience involvement, which is why I think it's a great opener. I quite often either open with it or it'll be the second. Second trick I might do balloon swallow and then I might do toss deck, but quite often it's the first trick I do.
Speaker 1:And you've got the whole audience are involved. They're thinking am I going to get the deck of cards or not? And what's lovely about it is and there's a clue in the title you are throwing that deck of cards into the audience and the audience are throwing that deck of cards around. So there's no idea who's going to catch it, where it's going to go, whether it's going to be you. The audience are physically involved in making the trick work, not just the method but the process. They are involved in the process and there's quite a few people who've come up with versions of the toss deck where you hand it out on a net, on a long net. I'm not knocking people who come up with this. If it works for them, fine. Or they've walked out and they've asked three people to.
Speaker 1:You know, choose a card, flick through, just think of one and then go to somebody else and I think you lose the real joy and excitement of what the TOS deck is all about. When you start pulling back on that craziness, that craziness when you remove that excitement and physical energy that is involved with a deck of cards being thrown and landing on the floor and, you know, trying to avoid all the things that you have to explain don't hit anybody, throw it gently, throw a drop, don't get careful, make eye contact with the person you're going to throw it to. There's all this sort of energy of something. You know something slightly dangerous is going on, but you're trying to control it and the audience are trying to control it.
Speaker 1:And that's one of the beautiful things about the Tossed Out deck is that you, you know, you've, you've got, you've got that almost like a bit of a party atmosphere really early on in your in your show, um and that, and that's why I like it. And also, you know it's just impossible. Three people just think of any card in a deck, um out of your hands and you tell them what it is. That you know. That's good.
Speaker 3:That's as strong as it gets, really, I think I think a lot of the time with routines like toss out deck, because I would suspect it's probably one of the early truly commercial dual reality routines that existed. And I think that because magicians have that sort of fear with that methodology, they try and improve what doesn't really need to be improved, because we live in a different reality ourselves and we think about things differently and we overanalyze things, when sometimes the method is awesome, it doesn't need changing, it just works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it doesn't need changing, it just works. Yeah, and also you know to do it. You have to have a lot of audience management because you've got to manage the way they handle that deck of cards. You've got to manage the way that they look at a card, that you've got to manage which corner they're priced the deck open. You've got to manage how they throw it to somebody else, how they catch the cards, who they throw them to. If you're doing cabaret and you've got tables and glasses and bottles, you've got to manage that they're thrown to the person and that you're not going to get anything thrown. You've got to make sure that people are aware that a deck's going to be flying through the air and might hit them on the head. There's just so much.
Speaker 1:And I think some magicians try and simplify that process rather than say do you know what? I'm going to tackle it and I'm going to handle all of those issues. And I handle that. There's a lot of process. There's a lot of explaining to do to manage all of those things. There's a lot of process. There's a lot of explaining to do to manage all of those things, and I always try and make process interested or fun. I have a little acronym actually I'm going slightly off piste here, but I mean who wants to be on piste all the time? It's uncomfortable. But I have a little acronym, which is FIRE, and I always think everything I do in my show, and especially the process, should be either funny, interesting, relevant or entertaining.
Speaker 1:So if I've got to have a deck examined and ask them to make sure that all the cards are different, I will try and make that process of asking them to check the cards funny or interesting. It's certainly relevant because they have to, you know, confirm that the deck is regular, so that the trick seems strong and people realise and entertaining. And most of the time I'll try and make it more than one of those, more than just relevant, because a lot of the time the process is relevant, things have to be checked, things have to be checked, things have to be explained. But just relevant on its own isn't often enough. So all of the process involved in that toss deck explaining how it's going to be thrown out, there'll be a gag about why I want them to throw it underarm. There'll be a gag about the guy checking the cards and making sure that they're all different. There'll be a gag about why I'm putting the rubber bands on.
Speaker 1:There's gags on all of the things, even though I need to explain. You know, make eye contact with a person. All of these things have to be said, but I will then also try to make them funny, interesting, relevant or entertaining, keep it on fire, so to speak, and I think that's why sometimes people shy away. And the other thing is, sometimes there's a lot of pressure on magicians and creators to constantly keep reinventing classics. When a classic is a classic because everything's been thought of and ironed out, and sometimes people reinvent it as a worse version of it without realizing it. They think it's an improvement, but it's actually. It takes something away from the joy of the original.
Speaker 3:Yep, I think that's amazing, and your FIRE acronym 100%. And we see that through all of your work, even thinking back to your DVDs, now that you've just mentioned that, there are moments all the way through your performances when you're explaining what something is, Even back to Soundbox when you're handing the keys out and you're explaining stuff. There are always quips all the way through that and jokes all the way through the explanation of what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it doesn't have to be funny, because obviously not everybody's a comedy magician.
Speaker 1:So for me, funny is one of the things I'll go through the most. But if you're not a comedy magician, you can still make that process interesting and you can still make it entertaining and an entertainment, something that genuinely entertains the audience generally, interests the audience, uh, and also it's relevant. You know, sometimes if it's not relevant and don't say, don't do it, if there's something you know that actually doesn't help the trick in any way, shape or form, then take it out. You know, just think why am I saying that? Why am I? You know, why am I saying I've got a regular deck of cards here when really it doesn't matter because the audience is going to look at them and shuffle them in a moment. Anyway, you know, there's lots of things that we do and say that aren't relevant. It's a real, you know, it's a real challenge to sit and watch a video of yourself performing a routine and actually everything you say. Do I need to say that? Do I actually need to say that? Do I need to say that? Do I need to say that? And if you do need to say that, why? How can I say it so that it's, you know, on fire. So, yeah, yeah, it's something I always try and think about and I'm always aware when I'm working on new routines I'm always aware that this is nowhere near funny enough. Yet it's nowhere near. You know, it hasn't got all the points covered. There's lots of stuff where it's just me doing process and I haven't applied that fire yet. And it doesn't happen overnight. I'm slowly just peeling things away and adding things and new routines took me about a year before. I think I'm happy with it now. Year before, I think I'm happy with it now.
Speaker 1:I'm just working on a new thing which is just a five card selection, five cards chosen behind my back, and I named the five cards and the premise is that I am going to distract myself, and by distract myself, the thoughts will come, a little bit like when you can't remember somebody's name. You think about something else and suddenly the name comes to you and I distract myself by reciting and this is a random thing, but I recite all of the American presidents, from George Washington to present day, and as I'm doing that, the cards come to me bit by bit. You've got a red card. Blah, blah, blah. Oh, it's a picture, a few more presidents, ah yeah, king of diamonds or whatever and I go through and hopefully I get all of the cards correct before I get to doddle Trump.
Speaker 1:And at the moment I've performed that routine. Let me see One, two, three, I think four times so far. It's nowhere near funny enough. I've got gags about some of the presidents. It's nowhere near tight enough.
Speaker 1:The reason that I'm explaining to the spectator why I'm doing it is not clear enough. There's loads not right with it at the moment but in a year's time, hopefully, fingers crossed, just trusting the process in a year's time, hopefully, fingers crossed, just trusting the process In a year's time, of constantly doing it and constantly adding and taking away and tweaking and listening to people. I always ask for feedback from people I trust and ask people to write lines. I've got friends who you know throw lines at me. Eventually it comes out to you know a routine that looks like I'll be doing it forever like that. That's how the that's how the TOS deck. You know, the first time I did the TOS deck it was probably very descriptive and you know very few lines in it, very few funny things really well, that was our Very descriptive and you know very few lines in it.
Speaker 3:Very few funny things really. Well, that was our first foray into stand-up and parlour, so we're going to see where this is going to go now with number four. So what was in your fourth spot?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that toss deck is the only thing in my working repertoire. We'll jump back. I was going to slightly go out of order but I just missed one out and I said this as a close-up. It can be both and it is a trick I have done. I always have it in my case. You know, in case something goes wrong in an emergency I need it. It's not something I do very often. I used to do it years ago and I've done it close up.
Speaker 1:And that is the invisible deck, another sort of classic. I think Joe Berg Was it Joe Berg and I think it was the ultra-mental deck. I could be wrong on that. I know some people prefer the Brainwave. Obviously, with the Brainwave the Brainwave and the Invisible deck are very similar. One card is reversed in the deck. With the Brainwave you've got the kicker of showing that it's a different colored back to all the other cards, to all the other cards. I prefer Invisible because mainly I perform it. When I do perform it on stage and I can hold the cards to the audience, they can see that all the cards are different and it's a regular deck. And then I can separate one that's reversed and I can see it obviously from my side and take it out and show this there card.
Speaker 1:I can understand why some people like the kicker, but the kicker for me almost slightly confuses the trick because you haven't really taken the card out and reversed it. You've taken the card from another deck and reversed it in your deck, which for me is just slightly more confusing. I know it's not confusing, but I just like. I like the simplicity of of being able to say I've got a deck of cards here and before we even started I took one of the cards and I reversed it in the deck. One card, and I think he was an audience. I'm going to try and work it out. Quite often we'll get the audience to choose the card in pieces. Somebody chooses a color, somebody chooses a suit, somebody chooses a picture or a number and then somebody chooses the final value of the card. And I just again, I just like the clarity of one card's reversed and there it is. And as soon as it's a different coloured card, for me it just slightly confuses the issue and it is just for me. There's nothing wrong with brainwave. There's nothing wrong with people who want to do brainwave. That's fine.
Speaker 1:I'm a big believer in. You must believe in the trick that you're doing yourself 100%. You must be happy with it. If you're not happy with something about it, that will show Subliminally. It will show If you're not happy with the psychology of it or the method. If you're not happy with the premise that you're giving them, the story that you're telling them, whether it's a real story, whether it's a crazy, ridiculous, unbelievable story. But it's comedic and you just want to tell them the story anyway. If you're not fully bought into the effect and why you're doing it and why you believe in it, then that will slightly reflect in some way. You've got to believe in it yourself and I wedded to the invisible deck rather than to the Raywave deck and that's sort of why I do it. I just like the simplicity and the clarity of it. You know it's impossible. It's so clean, it's a beautiful effect. Everybody does it, which is the only annoying thing that everybody does it, but understandably so.
Speaker 3:And I know that you mentioned that you can do it close up and stage. I know Tom Peterson has a wonderful presentation using an invisible deck on one of his projects as well, so do you normally perform it close up or stage?
Speaker 1:I used to perform it close up. I haven't done close up for, like I say, 15, 20 years now. And even when I was doing close up it wasn't something I did a lot. And the main reason it wasn't something I did a lot was because I didn't, like you know, producing different decks of cards. I mean I could perfectly get away with it, put the deck away, then taking it back out, I get it, switching it, so long as it was the same colored back, which of course wasn't a problem, then you could do it. But really it was staged that I did it, or I have done it the most.
Speaker 1:And again, I say I don't do it a lot. It's sort of a little bit of a backup thing in my case. The reason I don't do it a lot is because everybody does it and I don't really want to do things that people are doing a lot. I mean Toss Deck is really popular. It went through a phase, you know, 15, 20 years ago, when everybody was doing Toss Deck. It's less popular now. I think people have moved on and mentalism's changed a little bit. You know a lot of mentalism's gone, sort of dressing black and it's all prop-less and electronic and you know people don't believe in just a simple deck of cards anymore. So I don't think as many people are doing Toss Deck as they used to, but I do still do that. But Invisible Deck, I don't do so much because it feels like it's out there too much with everybody doing it.
Speaker 3:Well, it's another great choice and leads us very nicely onto a number five. So what was in your fifth spot? Well, it's another great choice and leads us very nicely onto a number five.
Speaker 1:So what was in your fifth spot? Well, the next four effects are tricks that I've never, ever performed and I will never, ever perform, unless I am on a desert island, and it won't matter a desert island and it won't matter. And the reason for these, for the next four tricks, are I love the effects, but I've seen somebody else do them and the person I've seen do them do them so well that I would never do it. And I'm a bit like that. If I see a trick done so well that I think I could do better, that then I don't want to do it. I sort of not for any other reason than I, just I don't think I'd ever be able to do it as well as them and I wouldn't be satisfied. Quite often I'll see tricks and I like the trick and I think I could put my spin on that and make that my own. But these, the next four, are all tricks that somebody has done and that made it their own, and I love it and I'd love to do it, but I know I'd never be happy if I did it. And the first one is Andy Nyman's Sophie trick. I saw Andy Nyman do this. I think we were on the same bill. I can't remember where it was. I've seen him do it several times. The first time I saw it I watched it from the wings. It's basically a find the lady. I think Andy Nyman used to do a find the lady type trick, but Andy has made this his own and I think I know the method. I'm not sure I could be totally wrong, I don't care.
Speaker 1:And it's a beautiful little trick where Andy talks about his wife and he has a photograph of it and he puts it in an envelope with some other envelopes and basically without looking, he has his back turned. A spectator mixes these cards up and there's several phases and each time Andy knows where the envelope with the photograph of his wife is and the spectator chooses which envelope to put them in and how to mix them up. And you know, none of this is seen by Andy and it has a beautiful line in it of you know, take your hand off my wife as a reveal. I just love that sort of line, sort of you know, take my wife's name out of your mouth. You know, but a much gentler version of that. You know, when the spectator puts their hand on the envelope, that's actually got Sophie's photograph in it, but it's just got some lovely faces. Envelope that's actually got Sophie's photograph in it, but it's just got some lovely faces. But it's it's.
Speaker 1:It's perfectly motivated for the performer, it's a trick that is perfect for Andy. Um, you know I can't remember all of the lines and explanation, but it was just beautiful, not full of gags. You know he's not John Archer, he's Andy Nyman and you know he's got gags where they're needed. But you know I watched it. I just said I want a lovely, lovely performance, a lovely piece. I'd never do it. You know, if Andy came and gave me all the props and said, there you go, john, do it and make it about your wife, I'd go. Thanks, andy. But I could, I could never present it. I'm John Archer. You know I'm comedy shtick and it's got a gravitas that he had with it that it all made sense. You know it made sense that he was doing that and why he was doing that and why he was demonstrating that he could do that. Uh, yeah, it's a beautiful thing and if I'm ever on a desert island, I'll have a photograph of andy's wife in an envelope I mean, as long as andy doesn't hear this, then yep, that'll be.
Speaker 3:Uh, that'll be absolutely fine, yeah well, listen to this. I know that this is one of Pete's favourite tricks as well. Has Pete done this podcast? He has. Yeah, he was one of the early ones.
Speaker 1:Oh, I haven't listened to that one yet I'll have to dig back and find it. I've listened to a lot, but I haven't listened to them all yet so I'll have to go and find that one.
Speaker 3:Well, spoiler alert, this isn't in his top eight, but okay, it is one of his favorite tricks and I do remember him showing it to me in his living room years ago and being fooled by it and it was funny. And then I saw andy's version of it, which was so well put together, it was so funny, it was so different. I think you're you're on the money. I do think that there are certain routines that that they are just that performers. No one is going to be able to do it like that person. It's perfectly written for andy by andy.
Speaker 1:Really yeah, definitely, um, at a beautiful pace and unfortunately I mean he's not doing. You know he doesn't do magic performances now really. But yeah, I'd love to you know if I was doing a little cabaret show and I could choose who was on it. You know he'd be straight in there with Andy. Can you do the Sophie trick please?
Speaker 3:so what's in your sixth spot, john?
Speaker 1:sixth spot is Harry Blackstone Jr's floating light bulb. My first IBM convention. It was the IBM 50th convention in Southport. It's the only convention my wife's been to with me and I remember she said afterwards I don't think I need to go to any more magic conventions, they all seem to do the same thing. She said they all produce dubs and cards. I don't think that's necessarily the case anymore. I don't think it was even the case then. It was just obviously an observation she made. But on the bill was Harry Blackstone Jr. I think it was even the case then. It was just obviously an observation she made. But on the bill was Harry Blackstone Jr. I think he'd come over to perform well for the IBM. But also I think Paul Daniels was filming him as a guest on his show doing the Floating Lightbulb and he performed the Floating Lightbulb in the Gala show there.
Speaker 1:I'm guessing it's maybe 40 years ago now 35, 40 years ago, can't remember exactly. Um, and it's, it's just again. A simple, beautiful trick, clear, easy to understand. Um, his wife walks out with a little standard lamp, with a lampshade. It's got a bulb glowing slightly green, I seem to remember, but he takes it out of the stand. It's a little bit hot. He has to suck his finger part of the method, I believe and then he has a little hoop over his neck and he says I'm going to show you something you will remember for the rest of your lives. And that's another wonderful line. And it's a very brave line because, to say that, as a magician I'm not sure if I could say that about any tricks in my act you will remember this for the rest of your life. I don't think I could say that, but with this trick you do and I remembered it my wife. Whenever I bring the subject up, she remembers it. And he walks into the audience with this light bulb still glowing, which then 35, 40 years ago was more magical than it is now. Now it's just like, yeah, you know, electronics is such that you could have a light bulb that's lit on its own, but then it was still a bit hard to understand. You know electronics is such that you could have a light bulb that's lit on its own, but then it was still a bit hard to understand. You know, batteries weren't small. You know everything was, you know, black and white I'm going back a long time and he'd walk into the audience and he'd give the light bulb to somebody and say, have a look at it.
Speaker 1:And they would look at the light bulb, they could examine it and he would take it off them and just hold it in front of them and he would leave go of it and it would float right in front of that spectator in the third or fourth row and he would take the hoop off his neck and he would put it over the thing. He would spin it around, put it back on his neck and he'd take the bulb. And he went to somebody else. He'd take it to three people, each person giving them the light bulb, check it out, make sure there's nothing attached to it. You would then take it off them. You literally just take it off them, hold it just above the head a little line, you know, don't touch whatever. Three times. Then he'd walk back onto the stage and he would pause. So you'd look and say what's that? To somebody a little bit further out Well, you didn't see it. Well, I will let you see it, but don't touch, just watch. And it would leave go of the light bulb. It would float in front of him and then it would float away from him off the stage over the heads of the audience.
Speaker 1:I remember this and I'm not sure whether I'm just remembering this and it never really happened, but it's how it happened in my head. It would float out across the audience, then it would float sideways across the audience and then back to him and it would float through the hoop and he would grab it and of course, the house lights would dim slightly so you could see the light bulb and it was just. It was unbelievable. I mean, at the time I think I knew the method. I didn't know the exact method, but I thought I think I know how he's doing this.
Speaker 1:I wasn't exactly sure how he was doing it. Even now I'm not exactly sure, although I think I'm clearer now than I was 35, 40 years ago, but even so, just, it was hairs on the back of your neck thing. I've seen it done since Hans Klopp did it and he did it very, very well. But it just didn't touch me in the same way that seeing Harry Blackstone do it that time. Harry Blackstone, julia, he had that wonderful, deep voice. He sounded like a magician, he looked like a magician, he behaved like a magician, just superb, beautiful stuff. Like I say, I would love to do the floating light bulb, but I know, having seen other people do it, and I know myself I could never do it, and I know myself I could never do it and get the same reaction that harry blackster did, and so for that reason, as the dragons would say, I'm out I feel like there are certain routines that all of us wish we could go back and see for the first time.
Speaker 3:I feel like things like you know, pepper's ghost would have been phenomenal to be in a theater for the first time that that was shown, and for me this was one of those routines that I always wished I had the opportunity to be in the theater. I've seen so many videos of this happening and that moment where he he sends it out over the audience's head. I can just imagine that that moment in the theater would have. Everyone would have been in awe. I can't imagine audible gasps audible gasps when it happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, phenomenal, phenomenal. And you're right what you say about seeing something for the first time. Especially as a magician. You know, if we see something that either fools us or just enchants us with the performance, it's never, ever the same the second and third time we see it.
Speaker 1:I was recently at Blackpool and I went to see the one. You know, the competition, and Simon Coroner held his ring to Lincoln playing cards Beautiful piece and I saw him do it at FISM three years ago, four years ago, whatever it was three years ago, I think. The first time I saw that I was like a layman again. I just could not understand how he done what he done got a borrowed rig linked to a playing card that he could hand out and let them keep as a souvenir.
Speaker 1:Um, sadly, you know magicians talk and you know we all sit and analyze everything and you know I'll later discovered the method. And then I watched it again at Blackpool and he did it equally as well, equally as you know, possibly better performance. Really. I mean, he thought, you know he thought about it as a stage piece, but it just didn't have quite the same effect on me as that very first time and that's not his fault, it's just, you know, it's just sad that, especially for magicians, that once we've seen something and you know explored it and you know looked at it, it's sort of we lose that magic, that magic of wow. I got fooled and it's been so long because we don't get fooled very often as magicians. Sadly, it's lovely when we do.
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Speaker 3:Yeah well, that's another great one and brings us nicely into the tail end of your eight. So what's in number seven?
Speaker 1:Number seven another classic trick that I would love to do, but I never will because I'll never be able to do it as well as Bob Reed, and that is his knife through court. I didn't know Bob Reed very, very well. I got to know him at the Magic Circle Centenary celebrations and we hit it off like a house house on fire. I remember him saying to me why have I not met you before? Why, why didn't I know who you were? Uh, he, he did a, a talk, he did a tour. He used to do a I say used to do. He didn't do it very often. He did a tour of historical magical places and london. It was a walking tour and he did one at the end of historical magical places in London. It was a walking tour. And he did one at the end of the Magical Circle centenary. He produced a little map and I think the plan was that he was going to run these magical walks around London. Sadly, you know, he died, I think, later that year or the year after, so I never really got a chance to hang out with him and get to know him as much as I would have liked to. But he was a lovely, lovely fellow. But his knife through court routine was a masterclass in comedy and audience control, spectator control. You know he'd borrow a court, he'd put a knife through it in the way many people have done, but he had gags for every phase. He even had gags for, you know, sharpening the knife He'd get two sort of saucepan lids that you'd get somebody to grind together as though it was an old grinding wheel. I mean, you do that gag now and I think a lot of people wouldn't really know what the reference was. But people knew about sharpening on knives on a wheel, I suppose, when he first started doing it and he'd hold the knife as though he was sharpening it while they ground these two padlets together and he'd have a little thunking ring in his hand and sparks would fly off the knife as he sharpened it. And then as the knife went through the core it sort of would get halfway through and he'd see a bit of lining and he'd got lining material that looked like and he'd start pulling this lining as though it was the lining of the inside of the jacket and there would be a ripping sound as he'd pull it off and then bits of loose lining hanging around and he'd get a bulldog clip and he'd clip all his bits of lining together with a bulldog clip and sort of say that'll be, and the knife had come out. And now they've got this coat with a big bulldog clip, it all ripped lining, and they say you can put that on, and they take the bulldog clip off and brush it down and it was healed. There was nothing there and they put the coat back on.
Speaker 1:Just laughs after laughs after laughs. Every single moment thought about everything justified. You know, I see some knife through courts and it's just look, I've got a knife and it's gone through your court. It's come out the other side and look, it's not harmed. I just could not. I could not get any more out of that routine than Bob did. Just beautiful. But if I was on a desert island I would have a knife, I'd have two pan lids, a funk and ring and I'd be doing it every day of the week. Yeah, I've avoided it just because Bob Reeves was so good, I think, probably the first one, the first person I saw doing knife through court as well. And that goes back to what we said earlier, that the first time you see something that sticks with you. You know that thought and those memories.
Speaker 3:Well, that's a great choice and leads us to number eight. So what was in your final position?
Speaker 1:Number eight is aerial fishing. Two people who I've seen do it Alan Shaxson and Mack King Mack King probably my favourite performance of it, just because I'm a comedy magician and Mack's a comedy magician and I like to think of him as a friend and I love everything that he does. I love everything that he does. But there's something about producing live animals and I know it's not really popular now and rightly so. I suppose it's probably another reason why I would never do it. I don't think I'd want to work with animals, not because I think the goldfish particularly are in any great, massive distress I'm not a goldfish, so you'd have to speak to their union about that but um, but uh, the reason I wouldn't do it is, like I say, because mack does it so well. But the idea of, you know, producing goldfish from thin air. When goldfish live in water, for goodness sake, that's their home. When you produce one alive and drop it into a little wine glass from a fishing rod, it's so motivated.
Speaker 1:If you were going to catch real, imaginary fish, if real imaginary fish is a possible description, imaginary fish, if real imaginary fish is a possible description, you know. But to be able to, you know, catch them, what other way to catch them than that? You know, by catching them with a fishing rod in a theatre and Matt, you know, using a little bit of, I think he uses Fig Newton, doesn't he? As his bait. And then you know, you see it, the fish dangling on the hook, and you take it off and yeah, it's a real fish. Oh, just you know, I'd love to have seen the early performances of that, by whoever it was. Was it Ching Ling Su? I think it was one of the fake Chinese magicians. Again, something else you would never do now. But yeah, aerial fishing, I just think it's a really, really nice premise for a trick and truly magical.
Speaker 3:I remember seeing Mac do this. He was the first person I saw perform it but I think it's the absurdity of the routine that really makes it feel more magical. You know, it's the whole lower their expectations and then that makes it, that final moment, more impactful, the fact that he has this silly fishing rod and then he catches this fish, which is a funny moment, but your expectations are lowered because it looks like, you know, he's made it at home the night before.
Speaker 1:If we're all honest, yeah, and then also your expectations are lowered a little bit because it's Matt King and he's doing comedy, so you don't expect I mean he does some crazily strong magic. But I mean that is one of the big advantages of doing comedy and magic is that it's a bigger leap when you do something clever. I call it the Tommy Cooper effect. Um, I think Tommy Cooper never really succeeded at anything and when suddenly he did something right, the reaction he got from the audience was way bigger than if anybody else had done it. I remember vividly him doing the four eggs balanced on the tubes on the tray and he'd whack the tray and the eggs would fall in and the audience would go wow.
Speaker 1:Because it's like you're Tommy Cooper, you're hopeless, you can't do that. And then he does. It's almost like seeing a three-year-old kid suddenly juggle you go, go. How have you done that? You're three, um, and and so if you're a comedy magician you do have that distinct advantage that when something really clever happens you get a little bit more credit for it than than somebody who's a straight magician like me. And and Mac's got that wonderful line as well where he goes let's go fishing. You know just, you know classic lines, a bit like Harry Blackstone's line you know you're going to see something now you'll remember for the rest of your life. It's a line that works so well. And let's go fishing is a line that works so well for him. Yeah, beautiful stuff.
Speaker 3:Well, that's a great list. We've gone from Crazy Man's Handcuffs, rainbow Cascade Tossed Out Deck, invisible Deck, sophie Trick, floating Lightbulb Knife Through Coat and Aerial Fishing. What a great list, and I really like that. You've just put things in there that you just love and that you wouldn't necessarily perform.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I love all the stuff I perform, but but, um, the stuff I perform for the audience, it's for them to love. You know, I, I enjoy all my stuff. I enjoy doing all my stuff. But you know, my love of magic is is I love watching, I love watching magic. So I don't like watching myself. I don't, you know, I'm not, don't you know I'm not, I don't you know, get turned on by.
Speaker 1:You know, thinking about the tricks that I do. Obviously I want them to be good, but I want them to be good for the audience and and as a as a magician myself, I get much more of a kick out of other things, you know, and if I was going on a desert Island, I wouldn't want to perform. I'd perform for people and there wouldn't be any people there. So if I was going to be on a desert island, I'd rather do all those things that I couldn't do or haven't let myself do. It's an odd little thought, but you know, I just decided to go for it rather than sit and talk about myself for an hour or so, which I have done. I did write about where, I suppose. But yeah, I wanted to talk about what excites me.
Speaker 3:Well, this takes us to your three curveball items. Let's go in with the banishment, so you get to dig a big sandy hole and chuck something inside, something that you maybe don't agree with or that just annoys you. So what are you banishing onto your island?
Speaker 1:I am banishing and this will surprise nobody at all who knows me, because I'm very vocal about this I am banning the vanishing bandana. I mean, this trick is actually. There are actually cruise ship directors who have said magicians can't do this trick because everybody does it. And it is I just, I just hear everything about it. For me it is karaoke magic, you know it's. I could, I could give this routine to my mother, who's 87, and she could stand up and do it and she would get raucous laughter, she would get stunning applause and everyone would think she was amazing. But really all she's done is follow the instructions literally. I mean, you are doing what the trick says you're doing. You know, here's some instructions. Somebody else is doing the gags for you and you know I'm in a bandana, for goodness sake, it's not even an English thing and magicians just think well, it doesn't matter because the trick's good. So I'll just, you know, just hope that realises it's a bit American because there's an American voice on the voiceover. They've created none of it. It's just lazy, lazy, lazy.
Speaker 1:And I speak to a lot of people, don't get me wrong. I don't hate the people who do this. I know lots of people who do this trick and I love them a bit. Some of them are very close friends. This isn't about them, this is about the trick, and I've got friends who've, you know, lots of them do it. So I said, yeah, but I've made it my own. You know, I've made it my own. I put my own bits in. You know I pull this face when I squeeze the banana. I mean, for those who don't know the trick, it's you confuse a banana with a bandana. You have instructions on a tip or a CD or on your phone, or it could be Siri. People upgrade it to try and improve it and modernize it and eventually you vanish the crumbled up banana in the bandana. Um, but it's meant to be the bandana that you folded up, not the banana. And you folded the banana and it's hilarious and the only good version.
Speaker 1:There is one, and that's when dav Copperfield did it. David Copperfield did it on one of his specials and he didn't use a bandana, he used a handbag and he vanished it in a lady's handbag. He had gags about what was in the handbag. Everything was new and original and it wasn't something that people were doing then as it is now. It wasn't something that people were doing then as it is now, it wasn't. You know. Now it seems like every cruise ship entertainer, uh, is doing it, every cabaret magician is doing it. Um, and the the they think they've changed it, but really they're still just using an excuse to follow some instructions. And I don't know. I I just I don't like it and I'd quite happily, I'd quite happily bury it, but not the people who do it. I wouldn't bury them. They could sit and have a barbecue on the desert island with me, do the cabaret that I've invited them to and then fly home.
Speaker 3:Well, it feels a shame because there are no doubt going to be banana trees on your island, so you could have done many, many.
Speaker 1:Well, it feels a shame because there are no doubt going to be banana trees on your island, so you could have done many, many vanishing bananas. Eat the bananas, that's what.
Speaker 3:I said Well, you were the first person to banish a trick, so that's interesting, you are the first.
Speaker 1:And it is possible that somebody could do a version of vanishingana that I would watch and go, wow, that's taking it in a totally different direction. I've not seen that yet. I mean, I feel the same way. I'm not banishing this, but I feel the same way a little bit about the vent masks. You know, everybody seems to do the vent masks, even people who aren't vents now, because it doesn't really matter. And they all do the same thing. They all do the same.
Speaker 1:Oh, I want to sing a song now. Oh, I can dance. Can you dance? Oh, you know, and they all do the high voice and the low voice, and they're all doing sort of the same thing, the same gags, the same lines, and it works. It gets great reactions and it gets great laughs. But I couldn't do it because I just wouldn't feel like it was me that was getting those laughs. I would feel like it was, you know, I would feel like it was karaoke magic. I'm just, you know, I'm just singing somebody else's song and somebody else's tune and you know, I might not even be singing it quite as well as they sing it, but the song is so good and the tune's so good that people are going to react at the end and go oh, that was good well, I still think there's lots of really interesting reasons behind that.
Speaker 3:So, um, you're allowed to banish it.
Speaker 1:It has been banished it feels good to get rid of it. I'm not even going to put a headstone on that, but it's just.
Speaker 3:I'm just going to brush the salmon over so I can't find it again um, well, at the very beginning you did say that you have lots of books, so let's find out what you put in your book position it's funny.
Speaker 1:You should say I have lots of books. Um, I, uh, there's some behind me. You know you probably can't. There are a shelf, but you'll also notice, um, there's a shelf down that does have books on it that one over there Because I sold about 300 books just before Christmas for various reasons. One was I needed space on my wall We'll talk about that later and the other reason was I didn't want to die and have my wife worrying about what these books were worth, because some of them were worth a lot of money. Also, I thought the money would be nice. You know, I might as well have the money now rather than just have a load of books on my shelf that I've read lots of times and don't need anymore. But I did keep about 100, 150 books I sold just under 300. About 100, 150 books I sold just under 300. And there's lots of them that you know I'd love to take on a desert island with me. But for purely sentimental reasons I have chosen this book, which I'll be showing you now there Kelsey Henry Hare the Amateur Magician's Handbook.
Speaker 1:It was the first magic book I ever had Before. I was even a magician, funnily enough, before I went to art college. I don't know where I got it. I don't know who bought me it, who gave me it. I have a feeling it was a secondhand copy and the only thing I learned to do from it. It's a brilliant book. It's called the Amateur Magician's Handbook, but it's got everything. It's got cards, coins, billiard balls, mentalism, card magic. It's got even some illusion things at the end, the dollhouse illusion and so on. In half it's a good treatise on general magic across the whole board. Um, and I had it. I learned to do the french drop from it. That's all I could do until I started art college in london and started visiting alan's magic shop. I'm presuming it it was probably a relative that saw it in a, you know, in a drug shop or a book shop or a magic shop and thought, well, john's a bit of a joker entertainer, he might like that. And they got me it and I sort of picked it up oh, that's interesting, what's this? And obviously looked through it and thought, oh, you can vanish a coin and learn that one thing.
Speaker 1:I then joined the police force and I lent my amateur magician's handbook to another magician well, another policeman who had a bit of an interest in magic. He wasn't a great policeman I think he got thrown out and he certainly wasn't a great friend. Because I never saw him again. I never saw the book again and I had to go online several years later, quite a lot of years later, and because I was missing this book so much, I went online and I found a copy. I had to find a copy that was the same back.
Speaker 1:I wanted it to look the same because it's been produced in lots and lots of different versions. I had to find this one, which is the black cover with the white writing on it, and you can still get them online on eBay. Various people sell them. I don't know whether there's a modern version that's been printed or whether it's completely out of print, but it's a great book and you know, certainly, if you were getting somebody a book who was interested in starting magic, you know Mark Wilson's course is great and you know Mark Wilson's course is great. And, uh, you know Tarbell books are great. I've got the set of Tarbells, but I don't think you could go wrong with buying somebody the Amadim. It's just handbook. It's a wonderful. I don't know much about Henry here. Uh, I should possibly delve in and find out a bit more about it.
Speaker 3:When you re-bought the book all those years later, did you go back through it and find things that you picked up on and you started learning? But further on down the line, yeah, I did.
Speaker 1:I sort of picked it up. It'd be so long since I'd seen it and it was like being reunited with an old friend and it felt great just to have it on the shelf again, because it was that first day of the book and I was really annoyed that I'd let this guy. I don't think it felt great just to have it on the shelf again because it was that first ever book and I was really annoyed that I'd lent it to this guy and I don't think this guy realised how important the book was to me. You know, I don't know why I lent it out.
Speaker 1:Really I'm very careful who I lend books to now but yeah, I did look through it and I thought, oh right, you know it's got some mentalism in there and it's got some animal stuff in there and it's you know, yeah, and yeah, I still pick it up and flick through it now and again because you know it explains some things very simply that you know other books take too long to explain. I can delve in there and go, oh yeah, that's how I could do that, but it's more there really, just, uh, it's a little comfort blanket now. I love, I love being able to see on my shelf and if I was on a desert island, you know I'd want to have that there really just to stare at well, it's one that we've not had before, so if you don't have it, try and seek one out.
Speaker 3:Um, I will definitely be seeking one out for my collection. Um, but it does bring us to your item. So, the final thing that you could pick what is the non-magic item that you would take?
Speaker 1:well, this is easy and I think anybody who knows me is going to be able to guess what this is. Um, it's, the reason I sold my books is so I could put them on my wall. It's my ukulele. I have about seven ukuleles. I have had more. I've given three or four away to people who I thought might benefit from having a ukulele in their life.
Speaker 1:A day rarely goes by when I don't play my ukulele. It's a wonderful, happy instrument. The ukulele George, not George John Lennon. I was going to say George Harrison. My ukulele. It's, um, it's a wonderful, happy instrument. Ukulele george uh, not george john lennon. I was going to say george harrison, but it was. John lennon said that if everybody in the world played the ukulele, there would be no walls. Um, it's.
Speaker 1:It's just hard to be angry or get upset with anything when you've got a ukulele in your hands. It's, uh, it's a silly, bright, bright, happy instrument and I use it in my act, I do silly songs with it and I normally close with a song with it. But yeah, I've got several on the wall, I've got a few behind me, and when I'm in my office working on bits and bobs, writing or creating or just reading Facebook. I can spend a whole day in my office. Most days I'll spend just sat Facebook. I can spend a whole day in my office. Most days I'll spend just sat here. And you can guarantee that at some point I'll just lean over, I'll pull a ukulele off the wall and I'll play it for half an hour and then it goes back and I'll carry on with life. Yeah, I couldn't live without my ukulele. Well, I could, I'd survive, but I wouldn't be as happy.
Speaker 3:Well, that's a wonderful list. We're going to go back over it. So we've got crazy man's handcuffs, rainbow cascade tossed out deck, invisible deck, sophie trick, floating light bulb, knife through coat, aerial fishing. Your banishment is the vanishing bandana, your book is the amateur magician's handbook and your item is the ukulele. Very, very interesting list.
Speaker 1:There's a hundred tricks I could put in there that I think are great and people do well and stuff. Magic's fantastic. You know Blackpool, I was at Blackpool a while. I don't know when this is going to go out, but not that long ago I was at Blackpool. Just the amount of great stuff I saw, it's just. You know, if you love magic then there's so much to enjoy, so much stuff. You can see it's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful life being a magician.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And if anyone wants to see you, john, where can they find out more about you, your products, your shows, everything um, the probably best to follow me either on twitter I refuse to call it x, um, um, I am the arcini or they could follow me on instagram, again at the arcini, and my website is wwwjohn-archercom. Most of the stuff I do is private stuff. I don't do a lot of like public shows, but now and again I do. If I'm doing a public show, I will, normally unless it's sold out, but I will normally let people know that I'm doing something and whether they can get tickets. I'll not only do that on my socials.
Speaker 1:I've got a Facebook fan page as well as my own page. If you don't know me, don't ask me to be a friend, because I think I've got about 1,500 people waiting in a queue and some of them I know really well and I just haven't spotted that they've asked and they've fallen down the list, so you're probably not going to get that. But yeah, certainly follow my little fan page, John Archer. You'll find it on Facebook and I mention things on there too. So yeah, and then you know, like I said, I've got my DVDs and sell my stuff. Vanish and ink sell my stuff. Lots of dealers have got it. You know, I should maybe, in honour of this podcast, point people to Al-Azam and just hope that Andy Gladwin and Josh are listening.
Speaker 3:Amazing. Well, thank you so much, John. It's been a joy to finally get you on here.
Speaker 1:It's been great. I've actually enjoyed it and nice to meet you too. Hopefully I'll see you soon at some convention or other.
Speaker 3:Yes, well, yeah, I'm sure I'll be seeing you with a ukulele in your hand on stage at some point.
Speaker 1:I'll have something in my hand on stage, for sure and thank you all for listening.
Speaker 3:of course, we'll be back again next week with another episode of Desert Island Tricks. And don't forget, we do have Stranded with a Stranger, which we've had a nice flurry of, so hopefully we've got them being a bit more consistent. So if you want to send in your list, send in your list of eight tricks, one banishment, one book and one non-magic item that you use for magic to sales at alakazamcouk. Please include a little bio as well as the reasons for your tricks, and get them over to me and I'll get one of these recorded for you. So, with that being said, we hope you have a wonderful week and we'll see you again next week on desert island tricks, goodbye.
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