Desert Island Tricks
Each week we invite one of the biggest guests in the world of magic to maroon themselves on a desert island. They are allowed to take with them 8 tricks, 1 book, 1 banishment and 1 non magic item that they use for magic! We discuss their 'can't live without' lists and why those items were chosen.
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To find out more about the team behind Desert Island Tricks, please visit: www.alakazam.co.uk
Desert Island Tricks
Oliver Tabor
This week we welcome Oliver Tabor, FISM European champion and creator of the acclaimed West End Magic show to the Alakazam Island. In this captivating conversation, Oliver reveals the eight magical effects that have defined his remarkable career – from the humble Svengali deck that first sparked his passion as a child to the massive Fabergé egg illusion that requires five flight cases to transport.
Oliver's journey through magic is a masterclass in dedication and artistic integrity. Having performed with doves since age 15, he shares profound insights about the care and respect these animals deserve, emphasising, "The doves are my pets and colleagues, not my props." This ethical approach has led to extraordinary opportunities, including his doves performing for the Queen and appearing in major films.
The discussion delves deep into what makes truly magical moments. Oliver believes in creating shared experiences, particularly through effects like the Continuous Do As I Do, where spectators become active participants rather than passive observers. He describes the indescribable joy of helping a child produce a dove in their own hands – a moment of pure wonder that transcends explanation.
What sets Oliver apart is his commitment to visual magic that creates genuine astonishment. Whether transforming a bubble into a solid ball or presenting the classic floating table illusion, he strives for that ethereal quality where the impossible becomes reality. His insights on selecting the perfect music for performances reveal how every element contributes to creating a complete magical experience.
Throughout the conversation, Oliver offers invaluable wisdom for performers: stay true to your authentic self rather than chasing trends. Having witnessed countless magicians dramatically shift styles with each new television sensation, he advocates for finding what resonates personally and perfecting it, regardless of what's fashionable.
Discover why Oliver's West End Magic show has thrived for 13 years and why his performances continue to captivate audiences worldwide. From close-up mysteries to grand stage illusions, Oliver Tabor represents magic at its most diverse, dedicated, and delightful.
Join us for this fascinating discussion that will inspire you to see magic with fresh eyes and perhaps rekindle your own sense of wonder. Whether you're a seasoned performer or simply enchanted by the impossible, Oliver's insights will transform how you experience the art of magic.
Oliver Tabor's Desert Island Tricks:
- Svengali Deck
- Pena Coin
- Doves
- Continuous Do As I Do
- Bubble to Ball
- Floating Table
- Giant Fabergé Egg
- Floating Candle
Banishment. Don’t Follow the Crowd
Book. Roy Benson by Starlight
Item. Music
Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
So we've got some photos taken of our first time together. We'll get some photos taken and we'll do some shows. So we've got these amazing shots done. And she's got an egg, this Faberge egg, which is probably around about I don't know four feet high. It's on this metal stand and there's a picture of her coming out of it and she uses one of her acts. And we put these photos online and a big book had got in touch with us. It's like can you do it? And we're like yeah, of course we can. Yeah, ready to go, not a problem, as you do. You know always best to say yes. And then we're like right, well, we're gonna do them.
Speaker 1:We came up with an idea and we approached a builder local to me. Um, he built a couple of props for me and said that when we had a time frame of six months so this is a big gig it was the blackpool tower ballroom. It's for a big show in there. So we left it with him. We came back to his workshop about two weeks later and we picked it up the day before we were going up to do the gigs. We had like one day to rehearse with it and this thing was massive. It was lovely, but this thing was massive. So we managed to get onto the back of a trailer and we did this gig and it was great.
Speaker 1:And then we got booked to do an illusion tour. So we had to get flight cased In flight case. It 10 feet high, one bit holds them on shell, another flight case holds another shell and then the base is in three other flight cases. It's just enormous. It's crazy. But it was a big splurge. It was very over elaborate but we love it. We're going to get to pull that much so we'd like to take it with us. If the boat is big enough to take all the flight cases, that is Hello.
Speaker 2:Hello, welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. Now, I normally say that we're waiting in the wings, and we really are waiting in the wings because today's guest is a very prolific stage performer. Now, I say that because he is the FISM European champion, which is incredibly exciting to have him here Now. I've actually seen him perform a number of times in his show, which is West End Magic. Now, if you ever get the chance to see it, I very highly recommend it. It's such a great show. They have different guests every time, so things get mixed up, but there you'll get to see oliver live and he is absolutely phenomenal. Uh, he is very well known for doing dove magic and his dove act, so he's a phenomenal performer, and I know that this is going to be a list that may cater to a different demographic of magicians. I'm very excited to hear, no doubt, the very surprising choices as well. Of course, today's guest is the wonderful Oliver Tabor. Hello, oliver, hello hi, Jamie.
Speaker 1:How are you? I'm good. Thank you, I'm very good. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm very well, all the more better for seeing you and having you here because, like I say, I've had the opportunity to see you perform several times over the years and I know that you've been doing the West End Magic Show for a really, really long time now. So how do you find putting your list together? Did you find it easy? Was it difficult? Have you got pieces from your performances in here? It easy was it difficult.
Speaker 1:Have you got pieces from your performances in here? Yes, it was. Um, first of all, thanks for having me on. I'm honestly really really chuffed. You asked me, so thank you, um, but it was. It's not easy to be honest with you. Uh, I really wrote down a list and then I was like, oh no, but I haven't got this, and you start adding more onto it and then became like three times as long as like, this is getting out of hand. So then I started kind of obviously kind of editing it down and and I've tried to put in a bit of a bit of everything, um, kind of a trying eclectic mix. Obviously a lot to do with stage stuff, but also things that kind of got me into magic and things that really inspired me, uh, and things I also couldn't survive or wouldn't want to, you know, survive on my own other days on and with. So there's a bit of everything in there, I think.
Speaker 2:Amazing, yeah. So it would be remiss of me not to mention FISM whilst we have you here. So I want to talk to you about two things Number one, fism, and number two, your show, west End Magic, which I've had the absolute pleasure of seeing several times now. So let's start with FISM. How was that for you? How on earth do you even begin putting together a FISM act?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is a really good question and I could spend days talking about FISM I love. For the first time I saw FISM was in 97. I went to Dresden in 97. I was 18 years old and I went with friends that worked at Davenport and I'd never heard about it before, went to the World Championships there and it just kind of opened my eyes. I was like, wow, this is amazing. And at that time Roy Davenport came third in manipulation with that category. So I saw him on stage.
Speaker 1:I was like one day I want to do that. I want to kind of gain and try and win an award at Fisman. Someone told me you have to create an act for it. Yeah, so that's kind of what I was doing at the time. The dub act at the time was from towards that. So it came around to um Blackpool. So Blackpool hosted the European Championships in 2011 and I thought, why not? I'll go for it. So I tried it and I was one point off coming third place. I was so close to kind of achieving that and then it was basically warm up because the world's champions the following year. So I did 2012, which is the scariest thing I've ever done in my life, because you're there on the world stage with 5,000 best magicians in the world marking and judging not just the judges and I was on after Bon Lee, right? So Bon Lee had just gone in there. He, he was one of the best in manipulation in recent times career magician and then I was on after him.
Speaker 1:So he was there, made his name stormed it and I was going after him, so it was very scary, but from doing that, it made me bulletproof. No show after that fazed me, which I think is really good. If you can try and do something like that, give yourself a high target, it's a high aim and once you do it, after that and after that, I was like I could go and do anything. So then I left a few years and then 2017 came around and the European Championships came back to Blackpool and Danny from Amethyst said I think you should enter it and I'm like no, I'm done with competitions. No, I'm done. He was like what have you got to lose? I was like okay, fair enough. And I think that's why okay, fair enough, and I think that's why.
Speaker 1:So I went into it and did the dub act and it was like I've done it a few times because I performed on that stage a couple of times. I did the gala show as well in 2015. So I kind of knew it and I knew that stage. So I just went there and just enjoyed it and because, like you know, if you enjoy it on stage, any performance, the audience will enjoy it. So I just relaxed into it, enjoyed it, went for it, uh. And then apparently I was one point of coming second but I came third and got a third trophy.
Speaker 1:But I didn't care. You know, I got a frism of awards up there with everyone and it was just probably one of the best days of my life, I think. And they don't tell you beforehand. So I sat with my friend up in the balcony and they read out the awards and it's all from England but it's Oliver Tabor and it's, oh my God, amazing. But then it took me five minutes to run from up in the Blackpool Opera House to get to the stage because no one told me. So I wasn't anywhere near the stage at all. So I had to run down, go to the stage, get the award and it was amazing, especially on home turf with all your friends in the audience.
Speaker 1:It was one of the best, best feelings in the world. Yeah, loved it. So I am trying these days. What I'm trying to do now is try and encourage other people to do the same thing, because I was bitten by the bug venturing competitions and actually finding my goal of becoming a FISM champion award winner, and I'm now trying to help other people achieve the same thing. You know there's not many UK acts that enter it. There's quite a few this year going to the world championships, which is great to see, and I just want to pass on the help and that's what I'm trying to do is encourage people to kind of compete at bigger levels and get us on the map.
Speaker 2:Well, let's help with that encouragement then. So if you were to give anyone, one piece of advice.
Speaker 1:What would that one piece of advice be? Enjoy the journey. I think it's probably the best way to describe it. It took me 20 years to get to that point of getting the awards. Oh, fair enough, I did take a bit of time out in between, but just enjoy the journey. It's a lot of hard work. You have to train like I, have to rehearse like an athlete, but once you get there, it's one of the best things in the world.
Speaker 2:It's amazing well, there you go. If there's ever a call to go to fizzum, that is your call. Uh, let's talk about western magic as well. So I've had the opportunity to see it a few times and you get some incredible acts in. Uh, I know that. I think I've seen florian there. I've seen dave loosely there. It's always such a great lineup, so why don't you tell us about that, in case anyone wants the opportunity to come and see it? Yeah, yeah, absolutely so uh, west end magic.
Speaker 1:It's um, a show that's been in london now for 13 years, my 13th year doing it and, um, I think it was just a dream really, because I was like I'd love to have my own show in the west end and I just thought, well, it's just plenty of money in my mouth. So I went looking for a venue, uh, found a square theater and then I just kind of troached them, said, look, I'm interested in a magic show here. You know, would you interest in doing it? And they just recently opened used to be an old victorian dance hall years ago, so it's an underground theater and they converted into this more of a predominantly comedy theatre and they were trying to get more family events in there. So they took on the idea and I just put together a lineup which was very self-indulgent, all the guys I wanted to work with. So I had Richard Griffin at the time, uh, there was Steve Hewlett, there was High Jinx, um and Matt Ricardo and Christian Lee was the host. And I put it on just to be one big, one big show. And in the theatres it went so well, do you want to do it again? And I was like, yeah, okay, why not.
Speaker 1:So we started putting on one, two and then three and then four a year. Then we started doing shows at the Museum of Comedy, which is their sister venue. So we used to do monthly one man shows there and then the big shows was we so March and October, which still happens today. So we do two shows a year in March and October, and we get a selection of different acts. There's always the same core cast as myself, the compere, wayne, trice Jezzo, who's now part of our cast as well, and my partner Vicky, and in the second half he's usually given over to the guest acts. So you say we had everyone from Florian to Dave. We've had Guy Hollenworth there. We Dave, we've had Guy Hollenworth there. We've had Jamie Raven, richard Jones, john Archer, ben Hart, young Strange years ago. We've had an amazing list of people. So I'm really lucky that actually people want to come and do it. I'm really chuffed and people still get in touch and want to come and do it. So I have a real passion for putting on these shows and I think you have to, because it's not a massive money earner really, but I love.
Speaker 1:I have a real passion about putting on shows and showing the public out there what great acts are. In the uk, you know we've got variety acts. We tend to have one variety act, someone like matt ricardo or the card ninja or florian or something like that. So, growing up, the paul daniels magic show there's always a variety act, so I always want to put that forward to it and it's not really a show for kids or for adults. We don't specify anyone. It's a magic show that anyone can come and see. It's always a matinee show but anyone can come watch it if you're five years old to 95 years old. It's just a magic show with everyone and and we try and mix it up.
Speaker 1:But I but yeah, so I I just kind of love, I really love putting it on and getting acts on there that I would I want to see myself, and then, uh, and then other people yeah, so it's um, it's yeah so. So, yeah, I've been going for 13 years now. Next one's in october and then three years ago we got approached by a touring um agent and put us on the roads. So we're now touring around the country as well. So we're now currently in the middle of our third tour around the country wow, like logistically it must just be a nightmare.
Speaker 2:But I think it's an incredible show and if anyone gets a chance to go and see it, please do go and see it, because it's great. Now let's get into your episode. So we are about to maroon oliver on his very own magical island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks. Banish one thing, take one book, one non magical item that he uses for magic. Uh, and the particulars, like what the island looks like, how big it is. Is there an audience there? All that good stuff, we do not mind, it's in oliver's own imagination. With that being said, let's find out what you put in position one oliver right.
Speaker 1:So position one is probably what most people get into magic with, which is a svengali deck. The reason being is, this is the first trip that got me into magic, uh, and I think it's still such a powerful trick if it's done the right way. It's an amazing thing that you can do with it without sleight of hand and create miracles. So back in 1992, I was in London every year Me and my family go up to London. We tend to go and look at the Christmas lights Went into Hamleys. There was one of the Marvin demonstrators in there and he basically got me to choose a playing card at three clubs and he had a card, a jumbo card, on the top of his stand and then he turned it around and it matched my card I remember distinctly. And then he did the rest of Sven's routine, where he turned the whole pack into the same card and everything and my mum was just blown. I was like, oh my God, that's amazing. I asked if I could have a magic set, because there was two magic sets on the stand. There was a deluxe box of magic or tricks, I think it was, and the other one was a compendium of card tricks. And they bought me the compendium of card tricks, which I didn't mind. But it's 250 card tricks, which is a lot of card tricks. That's way too many card tricks to learn. But that's what I did.
Speaker 1:So over Christmas I kind of into magic spot, putting shows on for the families and everything. But it all started from that Svengali deck. So that's why I wanted to put that in, because that had the biggest influence on me of kind of getting into magic, and I think still does in some ways with a lot of people. Because it's usually what everyone's first cartridge ever might see is Svengali deck and if you do look, you kind of take your the magician amount away from it and just look at it from a trick point of view. It is amazing. It's amazing what you can do with it. You know it's incredible, incredible trick and there's so much you can do with it. Um, I don't necessarily use it myself that much these days, but I had to put that in because I've had to bring it with me. It's uh, it means a lot and it's the first thing to say that got me into magic. So, yeah, that would be my, my first thing. That'd fit in your pocket as well. It'd be quite easy, wouldn't it, against Desert Island? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, the thing with a Svengali deck is, I think as you go through your career, a lot of people forget the power. But you have picked a particular deck and regular listeners know that Devil's Advocate likes to pop out every now and again. So Devil's Advocate is here and he wants to know if you were to perform one routine with your sphain deck, what is the routine you would perform?
Speaker 1:that's a really good question. I probably would perform the most impossible ambitious card routine with it. I think that's probably what I go for, because you can do some absolute miracles with that thing using that routine.
Speaker 2:So probably ambitious, I think, was what I do because you worked in davenports as well, in london, and if people didn't have the opportunity to go to davenports, is it just a phenomenally bizarre magic shop. That was in the underground of london and it's a place that lots of uk magicians visited uh, with fond memories, but one would presume this was one of the tricks that you demned quite a lot in there uh, yeah, it was actually when I left.
Speaker 1:Before I left school, um, I went to work for marvin's magic. Um, I did the season at the uh did the christmas season at devonham's in lakeside. So as part of our little core tricks we've learned how to do the sven deck. You know svengali deck? Uh, it was that cups and balls and the dynamic coins, and from that I then got the job at Davenport's because I said I've got a bit of experience here. You know, I didn't know the Davenport's before anyway.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, the Svengali deck was something which you could always do in there. So it was. I mean, it's always, it's a thing it always sells you. If you're kind of a demonstrator, you're guaranteed you can get at least one or two sales from doing this thing on it Because it is so amazing. You know, it is just incredible. It's one of those things.
Speaker 1:Again, if you look back and look at the power of those tricks, it's kind of easy to forget, isn't it magicians? Even just a simple vanish of a coin, how amazing that can be right, and you forget about that and usually that's the first thing you learn is the French drop. But you do forget actually how powerful that is, even if you just kind of put it into everyday life and something gives you some change and you vanish the coin, you know, you give them some in a moment which they might never see again, and I think it's the same thing with things like the Svengali deck is. It's just such powerful, a powerful tool, really, a powerful deck of cards you can do amazing, amazing things with. So so, yeah, that was something I should perform quite a lot. Um, that's derven ports, um, which actually then goes into I don't get ahead of myself here, jamie, because I'll see all the hoes but then goes into my second choice well, as if there wasn't a better segue than that.
Speaker 1:Yeah go on take us to a number two so number two is uh, the first time I went to Davenport and seeing this trick and also demonstrating it is the coin through rubber. The coin through rubber right is basically you have a glass and you've got a bit of kind of I think it's like dental kind of rubber which is over the top and you have a rubber band and you have two coins and you can put one of the coins through the rubber. It's the most visual. I remember it being such a visual trick. It's the most visual thing to do, but also it's really satisfying to perform yourself as well because it looks so, so, so real and you can hand everything out the end, the coins inside the glass and it looks just incredible. It looks amazing, uh, and there's a couple little subtleties on there as well, because you have a coin that's laid under, a coin that's about to go through the rubber and some amazing things with it. So the coin for rubber I remember demonstrating as against the thing you could actually sell really easy because it was really cheap I think it's about three pounds fifty for this trick and you could use your own coins, your own glass and you get everything else with it and a sheet of instructions.
Speaker 1:But I remember seeing that first time going to davenport's and seeing being demonstrated and it's just, it's another thing to blow your mind because it's so impossibly visual, uh, just amazing, and then also kind of to do it yourself. You can set up in 30 seconds and you can do it with any coin at all, but I don't seem to see much of it these days. I haven't seen a coin through rubber really demonstrated or any kind of magic, conventions or dealers or anything like that. I don't know if it's still, if it can still be purchased, I don't know. I don't know if it is, but it's the thing that really sticks in my mind, as the trick at davenport was the one who used to love to demonstrate and also loved to watch with the coin through rubber. It was just, yeah, looked amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is one of the ones we've had a few times on the podcast. I believe Spooky Nyman mentioned it, I think Liam Monty mentioned it, I think we've had several others as well, but it really is just one of those ones that again, we probably fall out of love with it because it feels like an alien thing to do to put this sheet of rubber over a cup and push a coin through it. But I don't think it should be. I think it's that the purpose for putting the rubber over there is to create the barrier, which is the impossible object that you're creating. And again, we've referenced it a few times. I know Andy Nyman, in his episode, mentions the idea that magicians should have weird things. We're these purveyors of strange objects and items, so we shouldn't be worried about having the rubber. I don't think. Think on the cup it's a good point.
Speaker 1:It's a very unusual piece of apparatus, isn't it? The rubber? I never really thought about that, but it is. It is strange but. But I think it is strange, but I think people can recognize what it is. It's not too strange and the nice thing about it's they can actually then examine it after. You know I remember that's the thing after is, you take the rubber off, you put the coin in the mat and you can get, and they can look at everything if they want to examine it.
Speaker 1:Um, but yeah, you're right, there are some things in the magic um that we love that were about unusual, like you know, the tenyo tricks, for example. You know the tenyo tricks are absolutely amazing and genius some of the things, but you never really go to a professional close-up. You can say, look, hold a second, look at this lovely kind of weird kind of plastic thing with the pyramid on it. You know you wouldn't be able to do that for a whole table of 10 people. Uh, maybe do members. Well, some people do. But it's, you know it's. They are fantastic, weird little looking items but just really fun to play with well, I think that's a great choice.
Speaker 2:We've got two very nostalgic tricks here svengali deck and panna coin. So what did you put in your third position?
Speaker 1:right. My third position and I had to put them in somewhere is doves. Really had to be a dove or two. So I first saw someone do a dove act when I was part of the Demon Club and the Demon Club used to be Young Magicians Club of Davenport and it was a bit like the Young Magicians Club at the time. I know you had Oliver Meach who talked about it before and he's like an old friend and he's an old ex-member but the kind of the melting pot of members. There you had people like paul zerdin was originally a member and he had richard griffin, angelo carbone, uh, there's other people like phil blackmore, roy davenport, and there's just this mixture of people who just really kind of played off with each other.
Speaker 1:We met every saturday and we used to go to put on a show every christ for the public and for Magic Circle, and one particular year we did the show for the Magic Circle after Christmas and I watched. It was at the New Players Theatre in Charing Cross when they were there before they went into their headquarters and I did my act. I think it was a comedy act at the time, which wasn't particularly good, which is probably a good thing. I left comedy because I'm not particularly great at it, to be honest and I was watching the side stage of the our headline performer at the time at the time, which was richard griffin right now. Richard, that was a dove act back in the 90s who had won everything. He's a british matchable champion. He won the ibm and he was won everything. He was young magician of the year as well and I remember watching him side stage and watching his act. Um, I can still picture it now and literally the brightest light bulb in my head is like that is amazing, I want to do that. That looks so cool and he was very much a classical magician doing some really lovely stuff beautiful kind of flowing, elegant dove productions and silk work and carbonic relations, and it was just beautiful. So literally overnight I changed and was like that's what I want to be. So I kind of changed my whole magical style and and kind of found you know, I think when you're younger you try out different styles, you find out what you want to do. So yeah, so then I started learning dubs and I got my first set of dubs when I was 15, and I've been doing it ever since and absolutely love it. No-transcript longer. Probably this might be the last year of doing it because it's getting ever harder and ever harder. Um, however, the audiences do love it. You know, when we do west end magic you've got people who might remember people doing dove acts from back in the 90s and you've got the kids in there who have never seen a dove act before. So you've got a new generation coming up. But I'm always conscious whenever I do a west end magic show, I go and do a meet and greet with the dove after, just in case there's any problems, they can have a stroke of it. Ask me questions, you know that sort of thing, so, um, so I really wanted to put the dove, a dove, in there. So I know you might probably say well, what's you know? Just name a certain kind of production with a dove. So my one is.
Speaker 1:It's a routine that I have in the show which is one of my favorite bits, because I give the magic to a child. So I get a child up on stage and they absorb my, my magic powers. If you like, I'll put a cloak on them in the hat and I lose my magic powers and they become the magician. So I try and vanish. A silk handkerchief doesn't work. Try a second time and I do it and I get them to take the wand and it vanishes and we do a 20th century silk. So the silk appears in between the two and the bunch of the silks. I put them in their hand and they produce a dove in their hands and it's the look on their face. This is what I love so much. It's the look on their face of them having a dove in their hands producing rice from these silks. Uh, that is my apps.
Speaker 1:One of my absolute favorite parts of the show is that is giving that little moment to that child. You know, not knowing how they've done it and actually having that much close contact with the dove. Um, out of everything, if I have to give the dove act up and I'll try and keep that routine in because I love it it's kind of giving that moment to a child. You know, it might be their first moment of seeing a magician or a magic show and Badil, to kind of turn them into a magician and give them that moment, I think is priceless. You know, I love, absolutely love doing that. So that would be it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is something really magical about a dove act and it is one of the. It's one of the things that I think the general public think of when they think magician things that I think the general public think of when they think magician. It's still one of those things of someone being able to produce this animal at their fingertips and I've seen you do doves and we've spoken to Edward Hilson on this podcast about dove magic as well, and just how amazing it looks and and the amount of effort that you guys put into everything that you do, from the care to training them to finding the right holsters and body loads and stuff like that you just said. It's probably one of the dying sectors of our industry, much like cigarette magic and and thimble magic, I think are two, two more that are sort of going now with time. But if someone did want to research it, where would they even start with dove magic?
Speaker 1:um, yeah, that's a good question. I mean, years ago, when I got to dove magic in the 90s, there wasn't really much around there was was books called Dove Magic. A lot of people were Dove Magic. By the end of the day there was five volumes. The fourth volume was the one that had all the juicy information in it to do kind of like body loads and steals. And there's a couple of Greg Froon who's an awesome Dove magician who kind of changed dove magic back in the 90s. Um, he put in one of the best dvd sets out there. So, um, he's, he's definitely worth uh, getting hold of his his bits and pieces or gets his dvds. But there's, there are kind of dvds and bits and pieces out there. People want to do it and it would be great if people want to do it. There's been a few younger members or few young, um magicians who want to get into dove magic. So I try and reach out to them. But I think they realise that it takes so much work to look after them. You know, that's the problem.
Speaker 1:It's said that dove workers look after their doves better than they do, and it's so true. You know the doves are, they're my pets and colleagues, they're not my props. You have to respect them. I know Edward does the same thing. You know all dove workers successful dove workers, exactly like that have the same mentality. We look after our doves so well. We have to because they're part of our show and they are part of the cast and you have to treat them as such and if they've had enough for one day then you leave them to it. If you've done that, or if they're not, fine, if they're not well enough, then you just leave them to it.
Speaker 1:I've got nine doves altogether and I grew up on a farm so I've got a big aviary they fly around in. So I try and give them the best life possible and the training methods, like any dove worker, is very humane, so I don't clip their wings or anything like that. I want to make to have the best life possible, and so it's. Yeah, it's a difficult one. I really wish there were people out there who wanted to take it up, but it does take a lot of maintenance and care. However, the payoff is massive, I have to say, and still today there is nothing quite like the response you get from producing a live animal on stage. There is just nothing like it at all.
Speaker 1:That first dove I do in the Dove Act is, you know, you can still kind of hear it. I still remember kind of a show I did last week. The reaction from it. It a show I did last week. The reaction from it. It's just amazing and unfortunately, yeah, it's a dying arm. I don't think there's many, there's only a few of us in the country themselves Edward and I think one or two others and that's it in this country and I think it's just unfortunately dying out.
Speaker 1:It's not kind of going to be accepted anymore and I'm just scared that to be really careful with it. I think if you're on stage and you look like you'll treat your doves well. If, for example, part of my act and the dove is having a problem trying to get into a perch, then I'll make sure the dove gets into the perch and I'll catch up my act. You know I've got to give them the time to do what they need to do rather than throw them into a box or put them to a cage. You know I'll give them the time to do what they used to. If they take a bit of time to do anything else, then I'll do that and then I'll have to rush up to the next part of the act, which I think is really important. It's common sense to make it look like you treat your doves well, but yeah, I'm going to miss doing it when it comes to it. I absolutely love it. I've done it for years, pretty much really all your bingo.
Speaker 2:I think we would have put doves in there. I certainly would have put doves in there somewhere. So I'm glad that they were in there, uh, but it does bring. Bring us to number four. So what was in your fourth position?
Speaker 1:there's a trick I saw wayne dobson do um in his close-up magic special back in the mid 90s and it stuck with me and I learned it and then I found out later it was pat pages and then wayne dobson put it in his compendium card trick, and it's the Pat Pages continuous do as I do, where basically you have a pack of cards you can shuffle and you get the spectator to cut off half. You shuffle the cards each and then, once you're done, you swap each other's top cards. Then you put each other's top cards at the bottom, you turn the pack over and they match. So I might have they match. So I have a black jack, I've got the other black jack, yeah, then you can do it as many as I tend to do it. Three or four times you do it again. You can swap packs and the same thing happens every time. You swap top cards. You turn it over and they're the mate, they're the matching mates, two, threes or something like that. And it's always the trick that I go to some sales when you do a card trick. This is always the trick that I go to. Uh, always find it really strong and it also involves them and it's something with the magic happening in their hands. So it's probably one of the best card tricks. I I think there is my opinion. Uh, because it's it's impossible because it's being shuffled throughout. It can be done with a normal deck of cards. There's a little bit of setup involved but you can get around that. But it's um, it's just every year, every every time I do this to people and they say, oh, can you, you do that trick where we do them together and everything, it's always the one that gets requested the most. If I'm Monk's friends, it's a really powerful one of those effects and I think any card trick where you get them involved and it happens in their hands I think is amazing. Like I was talking about with the Duff production earlier on and getting the kid.
Speaker 1:I love giving someone that moment, turning them to the magician for a moment. I think that's such a powerful thing. Obviously, we're great as magicians on the end stage and being kind of like the older, the big magicians we are, but I think it's nice and lovely sometimes to kind of give that over to someone else and give them the applause with. With things like continuous do as I do or angio carbones, cue the magic. Now, this is such an amazing routine. I love those moments of giving that to them. An amazing routine. I love those moments of giving that to them and the same with this. You know, continuous, do as I Do. It's just one of those kind of impossible effects which just keeps repeating. Every time we do it it's the same thing, but it just happens every time, and there's a little finale you can do, I think, where you produce the four aces at the end, which is in Pat Page's book I think it was Wayne Dobson's variation on that.
Speaker 2:So yeah, that's the one card trick I take is the pat pages, continuous do as I do. Now. With a do as I do trick, there is capability to do this in parlor or stage. So is this something that you do primarily close-up or have you played with doing it for a larger audience?
Speaker 1:um, mainly for close-up, really. Um, I haven't done it in parlor, but you could definitely do it. Yeah, that's a good point. I don't really do this in my professional set as such. It's just a trick that I do if someone says oh, can you do a trick? I'm out with friends or you know, out somewhere at an event, uh, out for dinner or something. That's what I do. But you could do it to a quite a consistent amount of people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's possible yeah, I think it's so important to have that trick as well that when someone says, have you got something on you? Here's a deck of cards, can you show me something? That's the trick that you go to. So why, for you, is continuous do as I do the trick that if you were to do just that one trick of a normal shuffle deck, what is it about that particular trick that makes you want to do it?
Speaker 1:um, I think because it's a shared moment with the spectator. You're, you're kind of doing something together, you're not. It's the kind of thing about you, it's it's both happening with you at the same time. It's impossible coincidence. The first one could just be in coincidence, and then it gets even more possible because you do it a second time and then you do it a third time, so it just becomes impossible. I think, as the further phases you go on with it. But also, I think because it can be done with any deck of cards. It doesn't need any special, really any special like Svengali deck.
Speaker 1:If someone's got a deck of cards at someone's house, it's oh yeah, you know, for a second. It takes a little bit of a setup, but a kind of continuation on from that. I know I'm going to do one card trick, but there's also another version of that with two decks of calls called the quadruple coincidence, which is from Johnny Thompson's book, which the same thing happens with two decks of cards, but there's like four revelations. So basically you have a deck of cards, they can choose one, you shuffle them, you go through and you just look at one card. Then you swap decks with each other, then you get each other's.
Speaker 1:You get your card, but what the card you thought out of their deck and you put it down. Then you count, you cut, get this, cut off a pack of cards. Then you count down and they have to do the same thing and you have exactly the same amount of cards. You've got 20 cards right. Then you turn over the card that you both took out and it matches. But not only that the two decks of cards you've got, there's two hearts you have left on each one. You turn the top cards over of those over as well and they both match. It is just one of those like absolutely mind-blowing tricks.
Speaker 1:I remember seeing that at my local magic club years ago and I couldn't find it for years and I bought the Johnny Thompson's Magic John Thompson books and it's in there and it is one of the most impossible and powerful tricks there is because, again, it's just done with two decks of cards. But that does. You take two deck of cards, which is why I've gone for the continuous do as I do, because it's just one deck of cards and it's one card trick. So yeah, that would be my. That's always the one I tend to. You know what's your go-to trick.
Speaker 2:If someone says what's your go-to trick, it would be that the continuous do as I do for anyone yeah, I think anyone who has ever done a do as I do knows the power and the strength of those routines and just because, strangely, over the second season, everyone seems to be skirting the Desert Island rules and taking their own number of tricks. So we will give you both of them. I will give you two decks of cards.
Speaker 1:That's very kind, thanks, thanks very much. So you can have all of tricks. So we will give you both of them. I will give you two decks of cards.
Speaker 2:That's very kind, thanks, thanks very much, so you can have all of them, but it does lead us to number five. So what's in your fifth position?
Speaker 1:Right, my fifth position. So this is, I think, in my opinion, one of the most magical things anyone can do and it I'm not just saying it because I do it, but I do it in my magic lectures as well, and I explain a lot about how great it is is catching a bubble and turning it into a ball Right now. Fundamentally is every childhood dream Right, if you try, if you try and blow bubbles kids blow bubbles, they try and catch them. It's basically, it's our childhood wonder moment. That's what we want to do is cry and catch a bubble. So I think, if you can actually do it, it is one of the most amazing magical things you do and I do it in my stage show.
Speaker 1:I do an act with bubbles and that's one of the things I do and it always gets out. Of all the things I do with the bubble acts, that gets the best reaction because you're turning a bubble into a ball and it becomes solid. And I do it for a close-up as well. There's a great trick called Bubble Pop, where you catch a bubble, turn it into a ball, then you put it on a stick and it turns into a lollipop and it's a great giveaway for kids. It's amazing. So I do that on my close-up set as well. But I think any time you do it, even if you just do it as a kind of a big great trick, but if you go to a child, you blow a bubble and you turn it into a ball, their face just you know, lights up, it just becomes massive. I think it's really one of those childhood tricks which creates so much wonder, because it's what all we've tried to do when we're younger is try and catch a bubble. So I think turning a bubble into a solid object or into a, you know, a kind of a glass ball, I think, is such an ethereal and magical, mystical, uh effect, a visual trick.
Speaker 1:I love visual magic. You might kind of get that a bit of a visual whore, the nicest possible way to put it and I love visual stuff. So, uh, that's, that's really is. I remember seeing the first time I did I think I saw a blackball magic convention. I thought someone came up the idea or saw it and I was like that was great. Actually, the vito lupo. When at Davenport Vito Lupo lectured on it he's the first person I saw that turned a bubble into a ball and I was like that is just so magical. You can't get more magical than that, in my opinion. So that would be it returning a bubble into a glass ball.
Speaker 2:Great choice, and I know that we have products out there now so I think it's called Wonder Bubble where it's sort of self-contained, which is a great product. But you mentioned that you use it in your stage work, so how do you use that in your performance?
Speaker 1:So I do. Most of my magic is that it's full and close to music. So this is an act which is all themed around bubbles really. So I have a glass of bubble fluid and I blow a few bubbles and I've got a white glove on and I bounce the ball on top of my glove and eventually I go and blow a bubble and I turn it into a bubble in midair because you try and make it as visual as possible. So there's many different ways of producing turning a ball into a bubble and the version I've kind of got, you throw it up into the air and it comes back down as a ball. So it's a real kind of visual moment.
Speaker 1:Um, so that's kind of what I do on stage.
Speaker 1:The ball is about 40 millimeters, not particularly big, but it can be seen pretty much on most stages.
Speaker 1:But then it kind of goes into a longer routine where it goes into color change into a white ball, then it goes into bigger balls, then balls turn into smoke and then I'll do a um, a snowstorm of bubbles at the end, which is basically the finale, like a snowstorm in china, but with bubbles, which is something I've had in my mind for years. I've wanted that for age. I want to take a ball and turn it into a, put into your hand and turn it into bubbles, and I tried so many different ways of doing this, different different things on the market, different products where you can do it into a certain way, but it wasn't exactly what I found the visage and eventually technology caught up and there was a product release that I saw, uh, on instagram about two or three years ago, where you could literally just take a ball, put in your hand, blow it and turns into bubbles that clean, just like beautiful, uh. And then also I had the idea of doing a bubble snowstorm and you can do the same thing with this, this particular piece of equipment. Um, and that's kind of the finale of the of the routine, if you like wow, that sounds phenomenal.
Speaker 2:So, uh, anyone who is in london, if oliver is performing that piece, get a ticket. Uh, because it sounds like it's a phenomenal routine. Now that brings us to number six. So what did you put in your six spot?
Speaker 1:right number six. So we were kind of getting a little bit bigger now I thought thought it was time to get to the bigger stuff, so we'll go slightly bigger. The next one is the floating table. Now, the floating table is, it ticks so many boxes and it's one of those tricks again, like we were talking about the Spangali deck and people kind of do, and it falls out of fashion. But I think it is just one of the most magical things you can. You can see, um, both close up and on stage. The thing about the floating table it seemed to be done surrounded. You can do it in the parlous setting, you can even do a close-up, really, and you can do it on stage and you can do it with someone with you from the audience, doing it with you, and the table floats between you and they can look under the cloth and there's nothing to see, and they can surround it and they can put the overwave, their hands above if they want to, and it's just what? Again, one of the most magical things. I think it's very much a material trick again, a bit like the bubble in the ball, I think, because if done well and this is kind of where I'm kind of going with this in the nicest possible way.
Speaker 1:It's very easy to do things badly and the floating table was done by. It was out there for long for, done by a lot of people and there's good ways to doing it and there's bad ways of doing it. And I remember reading an article by Joni Spina in the magic magazine many years ago is a floating table should float like a bubble and fall like a feather? And I was like that's a great description because the table should be no weight at all. It looks heavy and it should float Like if you just blow on it it will just go really far. You know it should be like that, like if you're in anti-gravity, you know, and you push something. It needs to have that same effect, that same trajectory. So I worked on that. I bought a floating table and I worked on it and we tried to get it to be like that. And also I think a good floating table routine needs to be short, nothing too long, and just keep it as short as possible and keep it as a really nice moment in time. So the floating table I've done for years and I still do it every now and again. Sometimes it's the end of my cabaret show, because I don't think you can really get anything as quiet and as impressive as that, especially for a cabaret setting or a parlour setting. You basically have a mini illusion with you that you can use as a table. You can put things on it and use it as a table, and then you float it at the end and it looks solid and looks amazing and you take the cloth away at the end and you can do the thing where it's called the anti-crafty box, where you actually the master of doing it, and I think everyone should look at his performance and think that's how it should be. That sort of floating table should be performed and it shouldn't be a throwaway item and it shouldn't be used as a joke item. There's many things out there, just my personal opinion. I think the floating table, when done well and done as a short routine a couple minutes it is one of the most powerful things and it gets the most I guess one of the most feedback as well.
Speaker 1:I did a year at the Hippodrome Theatre in Leicester Square. I was there, did a residency every Friday night working with a screen. I had to pull things through the screen. I'd pull like a dove through the screen and that sort of thing, and we needed the spots to put the floating table in there, sort of thing, and I used we needed the spots to put the floating table in there and it always got the best feedback.
Speaker 1:Everything we did I was doing things like putting balls and doing balls through the screen at pete antonio, um, the mind reader. He was there behind the screen. We filmed him and he filmed stuff. So he passed me balls and a glass of liquid and then we'd had a few dancers, like pop-up shows, and I pulled a dove through the screen, which was amazing. They kind of got the best reaction. But then we had put the floating table in there and always when people left, it was the floating table that got the biggest mention, you know, because it's just, it's, it's incredible, it really is. So it's one of my loves. I think it's a fantastic routine, I think it's a fantastic effect and I will keep on doing it because I think it's amazing. Um, even if it's gone out of favour with some magicians or some pit shows, I still think it's one of the most powerful points it can be in anyone's show. So the floating table will be coming with me.
Speaker 2:What's really interesting about the floating table in particular is when people think magician again. They think you can levitate something. You know, even Harry Potter, leviosa. I wonder how many times people say that to magicians around the world every day. And a lot of magicians are afraid to do that kind of trick because it normally involves IT or an ITR of some sort and they think that that's an obvious method and that's the go-to.
Speaker 2:But what I love about the floating table is several methods are employed in order to create that illusion. Not only do you have the sort of method that is normally linked to that kind of illusion, but you have the anti-gravity box. But I actually think the most important thing and you touched on it there and I've never heard anyone say float like a, a feather fall. Uh sorry, float like a bubble fall like a feather before. But it's the actual physicality of the performer and the mime that you're putting into it. I think that, combined with the other two methods, really make it a concrete piece of magic that an audience can't backtrack at all yeah, absolutely that's it.
Speaker 1:You can't, you can't actually work out at all. You're right. From any point it's. It's such there's nothing to be seen at all at any point because you're right, you're adding those different layers, like anything, the different layers and different kind of different effects and different methods behind it that it just creates one of the most amazing miracles in front of their eyes.
Speaker 1:You know, it's something in which you might watch, it's something you might watch on a, like a magic film or CGI. You know, I think it can be. That looks that good, it's, it's, it just looks impossible. You know it's like can that be happening? Because people think, well, they must, there must be magnets or something like. And even if you're performing in the middle of a room and you've done it, then you pick up the table and you walk up with it and you walk through the crowd and people can look and see there's nothing on it at all. There's no threads, there's nothing at all. You know it's just, yeah, quite like an immersive effect, I suppose, if you like, because you can do it surrounded, it's just amazing.
Speaker 2:I kind of like as well that it can be. It sort of can go into any genre because you can do it with just music and it would be amazing. You could do it as a fun piece and you can talk to the audience. But you know we've seen deron do it as part of a seance and and it's dark. So it's interesting how an illusion like that really can transcend different genres in magic and performance styles yeah, absolutely, I was meant to mention darren.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he's, he's I think he used it in the best way possible, you know, because it is kind of like a ghost gonna. I do, um, I do halloween shows at um, at the barn venue which I co-run, and um, we do a ghost tour, ghost walk festival and then finish it off in the barn um and we did a vote of trying to catch a ghost. That was the idea. It was trying to catch a ghost. It's basically like a family show trying to catch a ghost. And I caught it and it was basically like a silk and I put it in the box and we did it, and we did something like 12 shows over the day because it was just basically kind of continuous around the whole way.
Speaker 1:And this little girl came up must have been about nine or ten years old and she said this is real, isn't it? In fact, she got a ghost here. I was like, yeah, it is, and I wrote that down and that was. I remember that and I was like that is such a powerful moment if you could even make her believe that she's actually caught a ghost and she's there and it's there in her hands. Man, it was just such a powerful, powerful moment really is. But yeah, kind of daring, used it in the same way and and also I want to give a mention actually to Dan Sperry. He has a great version with a music box I don't know if you've seen his. So he's made anti-gravity boxes and he winds it up and it's a tinkly music box and it floats and it stops. So then he takes the box, winds it in midair to wind it again and it starts floating again as it starts playing, as it starts playing. Just beautiful. So many great versions of it.
Speaker 3:Hey guys, harry here from Alakazam Magic, I hope you're enjoying the podcast. I'm just here to interrupt and tell you a little bit about the Alakazam Magic Convention. It has taken us 35 years to get to this date. However, may the 9th 2026 will be the very first Alakazam Magic Convention. Now I know you guys are super excited, maybe just as excited as we are. First of all, the venue is a 37-minute direct train from central London. The venue is then literally a 10-minute walk from the train station. There's hotels within a stone's throw, there's restaurants nearby and there's incredible food and drink on site. That's all without even getting into the magic side of things. We are going to have four incredible lecturers performing throughout the day, including one person who's going to be flying over to the very first UK lecture. We are buzzing to announce who those four are. Not only that, there'll be dealers on site and a place for you guys to jam and session and meet new friends.
Speaker 3:Where are the lectures going to be held? This is my personal favorite bit about the Alakazam convention. They're going to be happening in one of the cinema screens. That means fully tiered seating, comfy seats, a drinks holder and there will be a close-up camera on the jumbo cinema screen that will be giving you close-ups of all the little nuances that you're going to need to see when the lecturers are performing. There will, of course, be a full gala show to end the evening off. You guys are not going to want to miss it. The great thing is as well on the Sunday, the day after, alakazam Magic Shop, which is a two-minute drive, will be open. So if you're heading down to the convention, why not stay overnight and come and visit our magic shop? Remember May the 9th 2026. Tickets on sale now at alakazamcouk. See you guys soon.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, that's lovely. That's really really cool. What great thinking and a great great choice. But sadly leads us onto the tail end with two more selections left. So what did you put in your seventh spot?
Speaker 1:Right. So the seventh spot I wanted to put an illusion in there. I think it was important to have one. So there's a few choices and I couldn't really make up my mind on one, so I've actually gone with one that I created, my, my partner created, which is a giant favage egg. The reason why I chose this, choose this because we don't get to perform that often, so we're nice to take the honor with me and I could just do as much as I like. That was the reasoning behind it. So just a very quick story behind this.
Speaker 1:So, uh, myself, my partner, vicky, um, we got some photos taken, some amazing photos taken, very kind of ethereal and she's very much she's performed like a fairy tale kind of burlesque performer and we thought we'll combine and put our stars together. We now kind of do magic shows together, um, necessarily not without the, uh, the burlesque side of it, but she's got a very kind of ethereal kind of look about her shows. So we've got some photos taken of our first time together. Just, we'll get some photos taken all these, some shows. So we've got some photos taken of our first time together. Just, we'll get some photos taken. We'll do some shows. So we've got these amazing shots done. And she's got an egg, this faberge egg, which is probably around about, um, I don't know four feet high. It's on this metal stand and there's a picture of her coming out of it and she uses one of her acts and, um, and we put these photos online and a big book had got in touch with us, like, oh, that looks great. That faberge illusion can, uh, can you do it? And we're like, yeah, of course we can. Yeah, ready to go, not a problem, as you do, you know always best to say yes. And then we're like right, well, we're gonna do them whilst we're gonna drive with it.
Speaker 1:So we'd actually have an idea of doing an illusion of fabergé, but the one that she had was a bit too small. There's no way we could really do anything with it. So we came up with an idea and we approached a builder local to me. Um, he built a couple of props for me and said that when we had a time frame of six months so this is a big gig it was the blackpool tower ballroom. It's for a big show in there, um, so we had to get ready for that. So we basically went to this guy and said this is what we want. This is what we want is. We want to do it.
Speaker 1:And we did quite a few bit of research into egg illusions. There's not that many out there, for pure reason. I think it's quite hard to do things with it because of the sphere. So we had to go back to the drawing board, go through a few of the old illusion books and come out with a method of how to do it. So we were then going on tour and doing some shows. We had to leave with this build and said look, this is it, you've got the style of this, with kind of like brine, lees, wines around it and all that. So we left it with him.
Speaker 1:We came back to his workshop about two weeks later and we picked up the day before we're going up to um, up to do the gigs we had like one day to rehearse with him, and this thing was massive. It was huge. It must be eight or nine feet tall. This thing, it was massive. It was bigger than we expect. We just thought, well, let's make it smaller and smaller. Smaller you make it more deceptive it looks, you know, for illusions.
Speaker 1:And this thing's massive. It was huge, beautifully decorated. It's made out of fiberglass and metal, right, and it opens like an easter egg. So the front opens out and hinge at the side. And she, so they kind of demonstrated to us, and so he got one of the guy made it, got all his assistants to get into the side of the egg, close it up. You spin it all the way around and open it up. But the problem the legs were were beautifully ornate, but they were so thick and big and so well, she must be hidden under there somewhere. And then he took her legs away and you could see all the way inside. I'm like, oh, okay, okay, all right, it's good. So it it was, it was lovely, but this thing was massive.
Speaker 1:So we managed to get onto the back of a trailer and we did this gig and it was great, uh. And then we got a book to do an illusion tour. So we had to get flight cased right, because this thing's so big. We requested that each piece it goes down as five pieces, but each piece has to fit through a single door to get through venue. So we did that, so it comes apart in five pieces. So there's the two egg shells and then there's, uh, two bits for the stands on with the base and then there's another couple extra pieces. So we had to get flight cased. So in flight case it comes in five massive flight cases. Right, it's just, it's most ridiculous thing in the world, but it's an amazing illusion, right. So each flight case is about 10 feet high right to hold the shell. So one bit holds the one shell, another flight case holds another shell and then the base is in three other flight cases. It's just enormous, it's crazy. So it wasn't practical, but if you're part of a touring show, it was.
Speaker 1:We had to try and set up each time. So we don't perform it that much, unless people are kind of willing to pay for it. Because it's so big to transport. We have to get a seven and a half ton lorry or we can fit in a Luton van just about. But it was a big splurge, it was very over elaborate and it is an amazing illusion.
Speaker 1:Basically, what happens is Vicky does a dance, she gets inside the egg. We close it up, we spin it around, we've done surrounded, so that's what we also do. We've mirrors behind it as well, so you can actually all just can see right behind it. So you spin it around, open up and she's vanished right and you take the legs away and you really can't see where she is. Then you close it, look at her up again and then she reappears as a big butterfly costume change. So that's the finale right, and it is an amazing trick. It's a great finale for routine.
Speaker 1:When we first took west end magic on the road, we had to send a half-time lorry and our first shows were during the easter holidays, so it worked really well. It's a great, great finale, but it's just not practical for a touring show. We need to do one-nighters, so we don't really get to do that often, unfortunately. Um, and it's something that we created and it's this big, massive egg which is. I wish I'd just done the egg badge once. You mean, it's so much easier to get this thing made, but we love it, but we don't get to perform it that much. So unless we find a place which will sort of book us for a few months and it's static in one place, we can do it in there Because it's a lovely, beautiful, ornate, decorated egg, but I would take that with me out of all the flight cases, that is yeah, we'll.
Speaker 2:We'll even I tell you what. We'll give you a helicopter, we'll fly it all over for you um, that's great.
Speaker 2:What I, what I find really interesting as well when it comes to different styles of performance, is just the amount of effort that you have to put into what you do. I mean, we've already talked about doves and just the effort that goes into that, and now the fact that you had to get all of those flight cases made and this prop and you have to get it places and set it up and tear it down the amount of effort you put into performance is incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does take a lot away. You do love it. You have to love it. I think you really do have to love it to be able to kind of appreciate it. But yeah, I wish we could do it more. I really do. But we've now come downscale. We do a version of it and Azra at the end of the show, and we do an artist dream illusion and a couple of other pieces. So it, we do an artist dream illusion and a couple other pieces. So it's just, you do realize, when we first went on tour it's like, oh, it's amazing, let's put everything in the show, let's go for it. And then after two shows you're like this is not logistically costable, or god, if I haven't got the budget for it. So you start to downscale and realize what's going to fit in the back of a splitter van. So so that's uh, that's kind of yeah, just try and make life a little bit easier. That's kind of what we go for and is there a video of this?
Speaker 2:are there any performance videos that people could see?
Speaker 1:there are. Yeah, if you go on to my youtube uh channel, which is um o table magic uh on youtube, the stuff on there. There's also actually a video of the making of the egg. So the whole story you'll see. You'll see inside the workshop and the process and the. The maker made it out polystyrene first of all, so you'll see that being made in the adventure. I think they're actually on the end of that video. There's him kind of narrating how they made it, how it was engineered, and then there was a performance of it at the end of that video. So if you go onto my YouTube videos, it will be on there.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll be going straight on there, because I have not seen that. Even the making of the egg seems like it'll be a great watch. So, yeah, I'll be on that straight after this. But it does bring us to number eight. So what was in your final spot?
Speaker 1:Right. So the final spot is one I'm I'd like to do, so I thought I'd have lots of time on the island, so I actually about to get this one actually nailed. So this is kind of going back onto the floating theme a floating candle. I've been wanting to do a floating kind of object for years and I've got a floating candle effect in mind for which, which is all there ready to go, literally my magic room at the minute, and it's right there, I can see it and I just need to get back working on it. So I remember seeing harry blackstone jr years ago at blackpool him doing his amazing floating light bulb and it was just again so magical and he sent it into the audience over the heads of the audience and it's just incredible and always wanted to do some sort of floating ball effect or something like that, but didn't really suit my style. And then, um, I read in a book about a floating uh, a floating candle and I was like that actually makes sense, cause you'd have to dim lights down so the candle can be seen, which does a few things for the work and the effect. So, yeah, the floating candle is what I want to do, which basically we're with the ring and he lights it and all that. But it also actually leads into a scene, an idea I've had which I made during lockdown. So there's a story, a ghost story, called the Red Room by HG Wells, right, and I've had this in my mind for years, and the story is this guy is bet by his friends to go and stay in a room that is haunted in this hotel. So he sets himself down for the light. This is kind of sort of the 20th century, like 1900s time. So they light candles. He lights about 10 candles around him and he sits down to do some work and one of the candles behind him goes out. So he gets up, lights that six, back down again and the candle to his right goes out. So he does that and eventually it starts to get quicker and quicker. So the candles start going out quicker and he goes around trying to run around until eventually the point he can't actually keep up with it. All the candles go out, he gets a knock on the head and then wakes up next morning. And you know, he's obviously very scared about it.
Speaker 1:And I always had in my mind this idea about doing this routine, and we did a version of it during lockdown. Also, we had loads of time during lockdown so we managed to do it in the barn venue I was talking about. We managed to film quite a bit of stuff in there. The video of the egg, for example, is filmed in this barn venue. So we managed to make loads of little promo videos and, and the idea is, I'd like to kind of incorporate the floating candle into this routine. So the idea is basically the same thing happens I go on the stage and it's a set with all these candles do a floating candle it's kind of ghost-like and then all the candles start going out and I can't keep up with it.
Speaker 1:Eventually all the candles go out, then they come back on again. I've vanished, I'm in the middle of the audience. So that's the idea, right, that's the idea I've had for ages. And when working at the minutes, the first stage is getting this floating candle routine up and done, up and made, and then I'm hopefully going to put this routine in the show next year, because we're changing the format slightly, especially on tour. It's become more of a cohesive show with a bit more of a storyline, so we can put these kind of little vignettes and stories and bits and pieces into it. So so that is something which I'm sure I have loads of time on the islands as I can get working on the, the routine, this whole kind of red room idea, but specifically the floating candle, which are hopefully the floating candle will be in by the end of the year, that particular, just that routine, just that bit, and then the red room will hopefully come next year. So yeah, that's my final choice of kind of work in progress yet to to be finished.
Speaker 2:Well, that routine sounds like a bit of me. That sounds absolutely right up my street. It sounds phenomenal. That sounds really, really cool. I would presume that the logistics of a piece like that is pretty full on as well. There's a lot going on there. Especially, I mean, using fire with any kind of method is interesting, especially when you're trying to make something float or or move yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And also you get as a problem with theaters with fire as well not all theaters except fire so you have to try out different methods of it. So the one we did I did as part of an online halloween show. We used those electronic candles. We use some of those, which is great for video, but I really just have fire um, candles. That can that can do. That is, uh, something which I'm working on. Yeah, so it's, it's, it's up there, ready to go.
Speaker 2:It's just trying to get all done when I've got time well, I think that sounds like it's going to be a phenomenal uh routine and a lot of people have mentioned that if they had time on an island, because I think a lot of people don't have time to develop things and work on things. So a lot of people mention having something a lot of the time, like a mem deck or something like that, that they can just put their time to and really focus on it. So this sounds like your version of that, but a great way to close off your list. And I mean looking at opposite ends of your list. We started with sphingali deck and and pennecoin and we've ended with a giant fabergé egg and a floating candle. I mean, if there was ever a contrast, is that?
Speaker 1:exactly, yeah, start small, build up to the big finale. That's what I was looking, looking at.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a great list, but does bring us to your three curveball items. Now, of course, we've given you eight tricks, but you're only allowed one each of these remaining pieces. So let's get on to the controversial one. What did you banish from our industry?
Speaker 1:Right, when I worked at Davenport's. I worked in Davenport's from 95 to 2000. And it was one of the best times of my life. It was basically like going to magic university, because there was no Hogwarts, unfortunately. Well, there might be, I haven't found it yet, uh, but it's it's. It was like my magic universe. I've learned so much there and it's interesting there for those those five years.
Speaker 1:A lot happened in magic in those five years because at 995 Paul Daniels had just finished his last show on TV Secrets and then a year later David Blaine came along and completely changed the whole face of magic and made magic cool. You know, it was a bit of a nerdy back then. Before then it was kind of nerdy to target the magic and then it became cool to be a magician. So everything completely changed. And from serving customers in the shop for five years I noted all the people coming into the shop changed their style completely overnight, right, which is fair enough. That's what I want to do. They've now became cool People wearing t-shirts, jeans, doing card tricks out of hand.
Speaker 1:But then they started speaking with a bit slightly American accent, right, which is slightly annoying. So they kind of put on this kind of David Blaine-esque kind of personality. As I find that's what I do. I go ahead and you kind of think, well, maybe I should be doing the same thing if you're following these people, and I'm going to stick with doing my dub act and that sort of thing. That's all, that's all magic. And then 99 came along, and then deron brown hit our screens with his first special, last time 2000, um, with his first special, and then I was there till 2001, I think. And then overnight, these same magicians who turned to david blaine then then start putting a suit on, start doing mentalism and started talking a bit like Derren Brown, right, so they changed from one star to another which again is fun if you want to do it, and that is what was what was done at that time.
Speaker 1:That was kind of trendy, that's the thing to do. And I was like, do you know, should I get into mentalism? I was like, no, I think I might just stick with what I do. So this is my kind of my little peeve is is don't necessarily follow the herd. It's basically what I'm doing is stick with what you love and what you do and what's good for you, right? So I think it was um in.
Speaker 1:Jeffrey Durham has said in his book look at yourself in the mirror and what would your character be? What would you look like as a magician? Yeah, and just so happens, I was torn and slim, so I fitted the kind of that kind of elegant, kind of classic magician quite well and I did want to go. I thought Mensa I could see Mensa was going to be massive at that sort of time. I was like, should I go into that? And I was like, no, I'm going to do what I love, and I love kind of the silent magic and the visual stuff. And I stuck with it and I'm kind of glad I did.
Speaker 1:There was a time when it wasn't very there's not really much of it around these days, but it was a time when it kind of fell out of fashion. But everything does come back around again. It has something else full circle. So that's what I'm going to say is just kind of stick to what's be true to yourself, stick to what you do. Don't necessarily follow the whole everyone. Just stick to your style and your personality and just do what you you do, rather than just trying to change and be the next trend and be the next big thing. That's the only thing I'd say, and that's just from my observations, from working at Davenport for those five years. Everyone would just change overnight and not stick to doing things. They'd learn something new rather than just working on what they're going to do and keep on working on that and make it the best they can.
Speaker 2:And I'm guessing that's why you've had so much success with Doves, right, because not so many people do that now. And had you have gone to the mentalism realm, um, and you would have gone down that route, then I would argue maybe you wouldn't have found the success that you have found in your career you're probably right there.
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean, there was a few times where I kind of gave up doves. I gave up magic for a couple of years as well. I worked at davenport's for a long time, became a job, so I kind of gave. I just I stood because, kind of stepped away from it, and it came back about a year later, um, and carried on with the Doves. I was like, no, actually I really do enjoy pulling with them and, yeah, doves have given me some great opportunities. Actually it's more the Doves themselves than the main trombones for you.
Speaker 1:So the Doves were used in quite a few adverts and they performed in front of the Queen. I lent them to Darcy Oak, the Canadian magician, so they performed in front of the Queen for him. They've done Panto and and they appeared and they see me too. So they've actually had more screen time and success than I have really. But it has opened some amazing doors, you're right. So it's not only just with the doves. With the dove acts and everything else, I've managed to kind of really kind of achieve a lot of my dreams, especially with the FISM award and other bits and pieces. It's kind of opened doors quite a lot. It's kind of one of the things in the magic world that I'm kind of known for, so it's taken me across the world. I've performed in China and America and all over the place with it, so it's brought some great stuff for me.
Speaker 2:I like the idea of at the end of Now. You See Me in the credits. You're not there, but the birds are, Does that? Mean that you've named one Oliver and one Sabre.
Speaker 1:That way, you get your name in the credits. That's a good point. I've thought about that. Yeah, I'll do that from now on. I'm gonna go and remade my birds.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's a great banishment. I think that's more than justified and great advice there as well. And does lead us to your book now. People at home won't see this, but just behind you have a big bookshelf and I can see what looks like the tar bell course of magic there, because everyone can see that straight away on everyone's bookshelf. So I'm guessing you found this one a bit more difficult, having just one book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is tough man, it really is tough. So the first book I thought about was the Kingfisher Book of Magic, which is on my bookshelf somewhere I don't know if it's at home, but it's the first magic book that got me into magic. Um peter weldon wrote it, and in the back of that book was the addresses for all magic shops and that's where I found davenport's. And then went to davenport's and that's where I found the demon magic club and I met all these people and I got the job there. So that is such a a pivotal book and it's got some amazing stuff in there. It's actually got the cardboard illusion where you put the poles through it, you know, which a lot of people do today. There's some amazing things in there. So that would be definitely if I was allowed a bookshelf or a little minute, if I'm allowed a selection of books to travel when I travel to the island. This is probably what I'd read on there and leave them on the boat for them to go back. Yeah, so I'll take the Kingfisher Book of Magic. Another one which is quite old school but taught me a lot about how to present on stage is Magic and Showmanship by um Haley Nelms. It's. It's a really. It's written in a very old style, but it taught me how to present on stage, how to stand, how to walk all the stage directions, how to perform with someone else on stage my partner, vicky. It kind of gave me that fundamental um uh lessons and how to really present the stuff, how to create a show, peaks and troughs, all that sort of thing. It's got information there, which is which is a lot of books as well, but I think it's one of the first books that had real kind of like a comprehensive guide on how to put and present magic. A lot of stuff is in the tarbell course as well saying that, but they're still very much relevant today. So that'd be another one. God, there's so many.
Speaker 1:But the book I probably would take which has had a big effect on me is Roy Benson by Starlight, which is by Todd Kahn, levant and came out in about 2006, 2007. And it's the first big. It's one of those lovely, big old magic books by Miracle Factory, miracle Press, I think it is, and it's about Roy Benson, who was a very successful performer back in the 20s, 30s, 40s and he used to do a manipulation ball act which everyone's kind of learns. It's kind of the manipulation routine, a ball manipulation routine that everyone tends to learn from and then goes from it because he would do it as a comedy routine. He would do it performing it and then do his comedy routine and do and and do, patter with it. Um, but in his book it's the first book I found that has actual um diagrams and photos of manipulation effects. So it's got his carbonic plation, it's got his billiard balls, got the benson ball routine with the sponge balls and the bowls, it's got other bits and pieces, but just as real kind of world, real world knowledge, and it's more kind of about for the stage magician and the parlour magician. There's some close-up items in there but it is like the first book that I saw and then actually I kind of created my lecture from magic clubs from that book because I oh you could actually do this and not my lectures about kind of stuff I do, I do on stage. So I kind of put together my lecture notes, inspiration from that book.
Speaker 1:But also what's in there is the fundamentals rules of stage magic, which is a kind of a unwritten list of rules that have only been put together until they found this and they found these old notes. It's rules that manipulators tend to follow, stage performers tend to follow to make the magic more deceptive. Things like when you're doing steals from jackets and productions and switches and loads and productions and vanishes. It's how to move the body, the psychology of movement, you know the, the economy of movements and and all that sort of thing which I love, that whole things of how best to make your body look on stage and how best to present things and it's all that and there's no one's actually put that together before.
Speaker 1:So having that list really then helped me going forward with print together future routines and it's one of those books which I still look at to today for inspiration. Uh, it's a big volume and I highly recommend anyone who wants to get into stage magic or to parlor, because there's a bit of everything in there. There's some sponge balls, there's rope, there's linking rings, plus you've got the manipulation routines, there's card effects, there's a bit of everything. It's basically one man's lifetime of knowledge in there and that is the book I'll take wow, yep, I've just looked it up.
Speaker 2:It's not one that I have in my collection and it looks like it's not going to be readily available um, unfortunately so. Uh, it's going to be another one that everyone has to seek out, which seems to be a trope on this podcast at this point, but it just looks phenomenal, and all of the books that you just mentioned there, it almost seems like your love is collections of ideas and collections of thoughts, as opposed to an individual genre that you're you're just following uh, yeah, that's probably true, actually, absolutely yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:I think it's basically from, like most of the tricks I've listed. It's stuff that's kind of influenced me, I think, over the years and it's kind of like, you know, like the Tarbell course is like the Bible for magic and like Mark Wilson's course in magic. You know there's a book which you can go back to again and again and Dawson's Magic, the Cult of Magic. You know there's a book which you can go back to again and again and these are books which I'll go back to, I think, for inspiration mostly, especially the Magic Showmanship and by Starlight. And there's another book called the Art of Illusion, which is about a guy's illusion book, but he describes the illusions in there, the routines. It's his routine and sets the scene. So the lights are like this this is what the stage looks like, this is the feel of the audience. And then he presents like a version of an azure, for example, but he describes how how the routine looks, rather than just this is how it looked.
Speaker 1:Illusion looks, you know, it makes you think, makes you get your imagination firing, which I think is the most important thing. Also, when reading a book, uh, and that's what I get from it. I kind of get these little thoughts and ideas from each of these books and then think, right, how can I adapt that and put that into my? These days, you know the kind of illusions and the magic that's up to date, the modern day stuff, so which is like anything, isn't it? You find all the little gems in the old magic books. It's so true, it really is. It's worth kind of researching as much as possible.
Speaker 2:And it's a nice way to keep people's memories alive from the past as well the amount of books that I have of magicians who have passed on. It's such a nice way to keep their legacy alive and keep their thoughts, sort of. In the industry there's some incredible people who we all stand on the shoulders of, so continuing all of their thoughts and ideas. I think it's a great choice, and probably another expensive one for me because I will have to seek that book out for my collection. But it does lead us onto your item. So what did you put in your item position?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So again, man, this is really tough. So my non-magic item item which probably I couldn't live without first of all, was a Leatherman, which is what I put down first of all because it's a tool which can do anything, but I thought on the desert island it would be very practical. You know it's got a little saw and everything on it, but it's not really going to be going. So the thing that I could not live without and it's my second passion apart from magic is music. So I would take either an ipod, a record player, walkman, whatever I'm allowed, whatever's from genre is music, because I perform a lot of my.
Speaker 1:My magic is inspired from listening to music. I tend to listen to a hero track and think, oh, I could do something to that one day, and I love music I'm listening to all the time. If I'm in the office, I'll listen to it from in the car and listen to it. I always listen to different things, things on Spotify playlists and before I took up magic, I used to play music, so that's probably why I have such a passion for it. I used to play. My dub act is based around musical items because before I came, before I did magic, I was into music and I used to play the violin and then it kind of crossovered into that and it's kind of run on from it and I still love to put music to music these days. I think it's like that's creating that whole atmosphere. So the one thing I really could not live without is music. So am I allowed to take, uh, an ipod with multiple selectionals? It could just be one track or what's, what's. What can I take?
Speaker 2:we'll give you an entire pa. How about that?
Speaker 1:we'll give you the pa, we'll give you everything ready to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's a really, really good choice. We've had music on the podcast before and everyone has sort of a different reason for the music. For you, because I've seen your acts before and you're very, very good at picking the right piece of music for the performance that you're performing in. So for you, what makes a good piece of music for magic? How do you link up the right piece of music to what you're performing?
Speaker 1:That's a really good question. I think it has to fit the mood of the trick. It's probably the best thing for the mood of the routine. So the hardest thing to do is you have an idea of a trick and you've worked out the moves and everything and then trying to find a piece of music to fit it is, I find, the hardest thing to do, because I tend to get inspiration from listening to a piece of music. I think, oh, that could be good for for that. So I've got a piece of music for the floating candle, for example, and I heard the music before I came up with the trick and I was like so I got the piece of music ready to go. I mean the floaty candles, they're ready to go, it just needs to be rehearsed and worked on. But I think it has to.
Speaker 1:I don't know, you know, sometimes you listen to a piece of music, you can get the hairs in the back of your neck that come up. It has to have that sort of feel to it. I think it has to have that kind of reaction or it makes you instantly picture something to it that you can, you can do a routine to. But but I think it's, do you know it's, it's I could speak about this like I could do a whole lecture on choosing music and the right things to do with it. But it's, it has to be the right piece of music and and you have to collect a lot of music if I listen to it. If I hear a track, I'll add it to my specified playlist. I've got, you know, possible magic music is on my playlists and I've got loads of tracks in there, ones which I don't. You know. I haven't got any idea what I'll do to, but one day I think all that might come in handy. I might listen to that. So if I'm coming up the routine, I'll try and think something, then I'll listen to it. So I think it's just about kind of listening to, working out how the pace of the routine and and what, what the kind of general mood and feel like of it is really so, for example, you wouldn't do like a really drastic piece of music, to like a really nice kind of card effect.
Speaker 1:It's. That's on close. Maybe you could, I don't know. There's a way to doing it, but it's also finding the right mood and also the piece of music that fits you. So you know, it's like sometimes a bit classical, which kind of fits my style, um, whereas kind of, like you know, hip-hop, drum and bass probably wouldn't fit my sort of style. You know, it's kind of maybe it would, maybe it's for trying it out, but you know, you have to kind of really be realistic and try and imagine what it looked like on stage with it. So I don't know if that really makes sense, that answer. But uh, you just have to really make sure it fits the mood, I think fits the mood of the piece or the routine or the trick you're trying to do yeah, I think that makes absolute sense.
Speaker 2:But that's a great, great choice for your item and I would completely expect that from you. I think that's a great choice and just going back over your list, we started with Svengali deck, pennecoin, doves, continuous, do as I Do, the Bubble to Ball. Floating Table, giant Fabergé Egg, the Floating Candle. Your Banishment Was Don't Follow the Crowd, your Book Was the Roy Benson by Starlight and your Item Was Music. What an excellent, unexpected list and hopefully a lot of people will come and see some of these effects performed in your show, the West End show, or other shows that you said that you're touring around. But if people want to find out about those shows and about you, where can they go?
Speaker 1:So, yeah, go onto our website, westendmagiccom. On there it's got a list of all our shows from in london and around the country. So we're just comes. We're just halfway through our tour this year. We're back in london in october, so all the details are on there. Less square theater and then myself is olivetablecom. Um, it's got all my information on there. It's got everything I do with uh to do from um shows I produce and uh public shows, private shows, lectures and other bits and pieces. But I work with my partner, vicky, with the Glamorous, so there's all links to all those bits and pieces up there.
Speaker 2:So, uh, and on Instagram, facebook, youtube well, it was amazing to finally have you on, so thank you so much for coming on. I think it's such a wonderful list and lots for everyone to think about. And, of course, if you guys want to be part of our other version of this, which is Stranded with a Stranger, please send in your list of eight tricks, one banishment, one book and one item to sales at alakazamcouk with the subject line my desert island list. Please put a little bio at the beginning and, of course, the reasons for those tricks. That way, those will come through to me and we can get one of these recorded for you.
Speaker 2:Please do go check out um oliver's website and do go check out west end live. I will be there, probably, so, uh, you know, come and see it, support the show. We should be supporting live magic where we can, and on top of that, it's just great to watch magic. Let's be entirely honest. We don't get to do that enough. We're always doing the magic, not just enjoying it, and that really is a phenomenal show, so do go check it out. Of course, we're going to be back next week with another episode, so until then, goodbye hello guys.
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