Desert Island Tricks
Each week we invite one of the biggest guests in the world of magic to maroon themselves on a desert island. They are allowed to take with them 8 tricks, 1 book, 1 banishment and 1 non magic item that they use for magic! We discuss their 'can't live without' lists and why those items were chosen.
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To find out more about the team behind Desert Island Tricks, please visit: www.alakazam.co.uk
Desert Island Tricks
Tony Antoniou
When magic meets craftsmanship, something special happens. Tony Antoniou embodies this intersection as both a lifetime Magic Circle member and the creative force behind The Mind Hacker, crafting exquisite leather goods that expand the use of popular effects from post-it pads to ProMystic effects.
His selections paint a fascinating portrait of his evolution from close-up performer to mentalist, with each choice reflecting deep consideration of what makes magic truly impactful.
The journey begins with the versatile Real Die, a pocket miracle that delivers far more than simple prediction and his own creation, Circle of Destiny, which employs a unique utility move he developed for billets. Tony's candid discussion about Red Hot Mama showcases his understanding of performance psychology, while his preference for Zoltar's Opener over the legendary Invisible Deck demonstrates his willingness to evolve beyond traditional standbys.
What's particularly illuminating is Tony's philosophy on taking controlled risks, inspired by his friendship with David Berglas (whose book he selected as his desert island reading). This mindset permeates his approach to both performing and creating magic, explaining how he's able to blend technical precision with genuine astonishment.
Discover how a coffee machine fuels magical creativity, why awkward performances deserve banishment, and what makes a leather craftsman's approach to magic uniquely powerful. This episode offers a masterclass in magical thinking from someone who's dedicated his life to elevating the art.
Tony’s Desert Island Tricks:
- Real Die
- The Circle of Destiny
- Red Hot Mamma / Chicago Opener
- Imaginary Shopping List
- Zoltar’s Opener
- Heirloom Emily’s Revenge
- Card Warp
- John Kennedy Card Box / Colin Rose Card Index
Banishment. French Kiss / Egg bag
Book. Mind and Magic of David Berglas
Item. Coffee Machine / Finger Ring
Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
and this comes from the book, but also from knowing him personally is actually to take risks. It's amazing. The payoff you can get from taking risks Controlled risks is incredible. I think it's so powerful, and David was one for taking risks. He wouldn't mind, you know, taking a punt on something for the bigger payoff, and I think that's what we can take from that book.
Speaker 3:Hello and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. Today's guest is a lifetime member of the Magic Circle and I actually knew him more so for his incredible leather craft creations. Now, if you are a gigging magician, you'll understand that sometimes we have very expensive props that do not look like they are expensive, but they are, and protecting them in some sort of way or presenting them in an elegant way is sort of vital to making gigging a lot easier. And if you go to his website, which is the Mindhacker, you'll actually see some absolutely gorgeous handmade leather goods that house anything from you know promistic goods, which we know are quite pricey, to the latest post-it pads, without giving anything away, to wallets, to his own creations like Circle of Destiny. Honestly, his stuff is absolutely incredible. So do go check his site out if you're in the market for some sort of protective leather goods or some sort of elegant solution. Of course, I am talking about the wonderful Tony Antonio. How are you, tony?
Speaker 1:Hey Jamie. Wow, what a wonderful introduction. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you for coming on, and it's true, that's how I knew you. I remember seeing Circle of Destiny a couple of years ago now, and the quality of it was just amazing and the the idea behind it was really really solid as well.
Speaker 1:It's a great, great prop oh, thanks, jay, I appreciate that. Yeah, actually, um, not to uh preempt, uh, my list, but that might, that might get a mention somewhere, although we're going to that a bit more detail a little bit later. No, no doubt.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, no spoilers here. Now you don't perform anymore, so on your website it actually states that you don't often perform anymore and you like to focus on the development of magic and the creation of magic. So your list does it reflect the Tony that we have now, who maybe in hindsight gets to reflect on the magic that he used to perform and loves, or does the list go down your old set list route? What that's a?
Speaker 1:great question, jay. We have great question and it's actually a mix of both. Whilst I don't perform, I should clarify that and say I don't perform professionally anymore. Uh, however, in my day-to-day life I'm always performing. You know, if I'm out and about casually, I love to perform. It's just that I don't go out gigging anymore. I haven't gigged for several years. Probably my last sort of paid gig that I did was back in 2006. But I still keep my hand in. I still keep ahead of the game and my eye on the market and what is out there, and still attend. As you know, we bumped into each other many times at various conventions and events. So, yeah, the qualification there do when I was performing professionally.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, I think that's going to be interesting, because I've often thought about. We get lots of guests on here who talk about being able to take time away from their life and digest that material that they wouldn't otherwise be able to because of their busy lives. And I always thought I wonder if, when we get to a stage where we're not performing anymore, or certainly not as much, if the way we look at magic will change and the way that we think about things. I know certainly Pete Anardi has a huge book collection and he talks about it as being his retirement. So when he retires, that's when he's going to have the opportunity to go through that library. So I wondered if things differ and change when we finish performing as much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think they probably do, actually, because I think when you're performing, you want to be performing, uh, commercial, strong items, things that are hard hitting, that are appealing to your audience, whoever you're booked for, um, and I think when you uh, in my case, when I stopped to perform professionally and I did it more sort of casually, and a lot of the performing I do are for fellow magicians and the types of tricks that you may perform to them, they can be very different and they're appreciated from a different perspective and different angle. People might enjoy it, for you know a particular technique that you've mastered well, whereas a layperson, hopefully, they wouldn't even recognize that technique and it's just part of the routine and part of the performance. So, yeah, I think there is a difference there and I can see what Peter might be talking about.
Speaker 1:Where his retirement, his book collection, because you know, when you're a busy gigging magician, don't think, quite often you do have that time to have the luxury of sitting down. So that's why I'm enjoying this desert island. It's fantastic here. I've come here actually to cool down from this heat wave. It's a bit cooler here in this island than it was back home, as it were, so I've got all the time in the world to enjoy all the things I've brought along with me and will come onto the book later on.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, I think that's enough of a tease. So if this is your first time joining us, the idea is that we're about to maroon tony on his very own magical island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks banish one item, take one book and one non-magic item that he uses for magic particulars like who's there, what's there? All that good stuff, we do not mind it lives in his own imagination. That being said, let's go to his island now. So, tony, what did you put in position number one?
Speaker 1:oh, position number one packs small, plays big. I'm talking about, uh, the promistic real die. Uh, incredible piece of kit. I think you mentioned it already in the intro there. But, um, this is a wonderful item that you can carry around and perform miracles with it. Essentially it's a die and you can somehow foresee what the number of the die is. Uh, and you may think that's probably something that you can do and you know what's so special about that, but I I would suggest that anyone who performs with the real die doesn't just do it as a number reveal. There's so much more you can do with this, so much more, um, and you, you see, people will slay with this professionally.
Speaker 1:Um, just last week actually, we had an event at the magic circle, the presence of night, where matt daniel baker does an amazing act with a real die. He gets a a good 10 minutes out of it on a stage with a huge audience and he has people in absolute awe of his performance and in stitches laughing, and there's so much comedy he builds into that. But it's a big, powerful, amazing prop that you know is based upon probably something that goes back several decades. I think the original die in this version was by Ann Verde in the 60s, I believe, but it was obviously a very different form factor, much more clunky and not as realistic and streamlined as it is today. It's a great item. I absolutely love it. It's served me well over many, many, many years and I know it's probably in the top well, over many, many, many years and I know it's probably in the top slot of many, many performers out there. So, yeah, I wouldn't go anywhere without my real die.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's a really, really good choice. Now, you mentioned that there are lots of different ways to use it. Did you have like a favorite way that you'd use it or a favorite routine that you would use with it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, uh, there's a couple of ways I used to use it. I used to like the premise of um uh, using uh, psychology, observation and persuasion, seemingly to get the number. So it's almost like a three-phase routine and I believe for craig filicettietti himself, whose company Promistic who owns the company he had a way of performing it. I think I've seen video footage of him performing it in a similar fashion. But actually what's interesting for me, the way I used to use it quite a bit, was, again, not going into too many methods here, but you could let's just say you could force, could, let's just say you could uh force an item, because if you know the information ahead of time, you could assign that number to a particular item, say on the table, and you'd know that that item would be chosen okay, well, I think that's a great opening gambit.
Speaker 3:It's one of my favorites as well. Um, so I'm glad that you went through that and we're going to go to number two. So what did you put in your second spot?
Speaker 1:Well, number two. We've mentioned it already, but it would be wrong if I didn't mention it, and again, I've not come on here to show my own products, but I do absolutely love this and it's a big part of my life and something I'm incredibly proud of, and that is the Circle of Destiny. So just to explain the Circle of Destiny it's important for me for two reasons. One, the Circle of Destiny is actually the name of the routine and the props. So just to explain what it is, the way it's sold it's a leather wallet with an emblem which I call the circle of destiny, and the premise is that it's essentially a 50-50 proposition, which is very clean, where the spectator seemingly has the absolutely freest choice of which item they're going to choose, and yet you, as a performer, always win and are always in control of the outcome.
Speaker 1:Um now, so circle of destiny is the name of the trick, but it uses a principle, something that I came up with, which actually I'm very proud of, which is a utility. Let's call it a utility. Move um, and once you get the circle of destiny, I like to see that you're not actually just buying the trick. You are buying the trick, you're buying the, the props and you're buying the routines I present, but you're actually gaining this information, this utility item, uh, that's a utility move, if you will, which you can use for all sorts of things.
Speaker 1:Um, essentially using with billets, it's, it's, it's utilizing billets essentially, um, and there's so many things that you can do with it. Uh, to you know, you can use it for my reading routines and, and the thing is 50, 50 propositions. On the face of it, it might might be that okay, well, it's 50, 50, you guessed. Now, what's important with 50-50 routines is that there's a huge disproportion between each choice. So, in terms of money, it could be a 1p and 1,000 pounds. Now, that's a 50-50 choice. But the fact that it's so disproportionate and you, as a performer, are willing to stake effectively, you know, a between the two choices, they're so separated that it elevates the 50-50 chance.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's great. I remember seeing the props for it. I think it was at Alakazam that I first saw the props for it. This is the sort of version of a 50-50 plot I can imagine bringing out at a wedding or a high paid function, because the props are gorgeous. The method as well is great. It all makes perfect sense as well. That's what I really love about it, and I love that you can really really make it something much bigger than the sum of its parts. I think that's what's really good about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I appreciate that and it's been really well received from people who I absolutely respect and admire in our industry names, which you know, the household names among magicians. Probably I shouldn't mention them right now, but it's very humbling to know that they've really enjoyed the routine, enjoyed the method and enjoyed the props. So it really makes me happy and I absolutely love it. It's a big part of who I am as a performer and also you know, the company I run, the Mindhacker. So yeah, number two spot, circle of Destiny.
Speaker 3:Well, that's a great choice and I'm glad it's in there Now. That brings us to number three. So what did you put in your third spot?
Speaker 1:So number three. It did you put in your third spot. So, number three, um, it's a card trick. It's a card trick. You, uh, probably are not surprised to hear that. If I you know, in my previous life I was a close-up performer. Um, and it is, for me, the best card trick in the world and I'm sure it's performed by many, many, many people out there. It's hard hitting. It's got several points of magic in it. It plays big, packs, small, all the things that you want, and it is Red, hot Mama or Chicago Opener. So I absolutely love this trick. It's amazing. I used to perform it all the time, all the time, all the time, all the time, and I used to get great reactions. So those people who are listening may not be familiar with it.
Speaker 1:Essentially, a spectator chooses a card. It's a very free choice. It's put back in the deck, a little bit of magic takes place and the deck is then spread and then that card, the back of it, it changes color and it's amazing. It's like, wow, a big moment there. But we go one step further. We try it again, we proceed again to do it. The card that they originally chose is placed to the side and you attempt to do it again, and this time you spread through the cards. Actually, oh, I can't find it, but the card that they originally chose that was either in their hand or on the table in front of them. Now, now that is the card that has changed and it's an amazing bit of magic. I absolutely love it.
Speaker 1:Now, when I used to perform it and again, this was when I was a lot younger I used to always choose someone with red lipstick, because on the second phase, to make the magic happen, if you will, I used to ask the spectator to just blow a kiss into the deck and that would make the magic happen.
Speaker 1:I know it sounds very cornell, but I'm talking in the 80s and 90s now where probably it was more acceptable. But you know I never crossed any boundaries. It was just to make the magic happen. You've got to give a blow, a little kiss to the deck, and on the reveal of the second, on the second phase, I used to have a rubber stamp which was some red lips, and I used to have the have, basically some red lipstick on the card, and that was an extra little kicker, uh, and it used to get great reactions. So if, if people do this, they'll know the power of it, and if you don't do, don't do it. It's pretty easy to do. It's not anything that is particularly finger flinging or difficult to achieve, but it's an amazing trick and I absolutely love it. So I'm taking Red Hot Mama or Chicago Opener to the island with me.
Speaker 3:What a great, great choice. My next question to you, then, is where do you use that trick in your set? Do you use it as an opener?
Speaker 1:where do you use that trick in your set? Do you use it as an opener, I think? When I used to do it it used to be pretty much a closer. It was hard hitting. A lot of magic happens. I think we underestimate as magicians perhaps we are so used to the concept, but something that is apparently in their hand, that changes colour, is just absolutely gobsmacking to them. It's so powerful. So I don't think we should overlook the power of something like that happening. So I'm pretty sure I just used to do that as a close and leave that card with them and just kind of walk away and go to the next thing. So yeah, I think it's a hard one to beat.
Speaker 3:Well, in terms of a card trick, what a great, great choice and leads us very nicely into number four. So what did you put in your fourth spot?
Speaker 1:Number four. Number four I use. Well, the version I use nowadays uses a little post-it pad, believe it or not, and it's a little routine. It's a little routine I like to do, taking my audience in an imaginary supermarket. So I have on a Post-it pad or a notepad a shopping list and I start the shopping list and at the top it says shopping list. I've got item number one, eggs. Item number two, milk, item number three, fish, and item number four is left blank. And I say to them look, I've got my shopping list here.
Speaker 1:As I get older I can't remember what I've come into the supermarket for. So I write a little list down here. But there's an item missing on here and I want you to take you to a imaginary supermarket in your mind. I just want you to walk down all the aisles and just slowly walk down and then pick up an item in your mind, just write it down, complete the shopping list for me. So they do that and of course you probably know where this is heading. Um, I gain that information in a, in a secret way, and basically I reveal what they have chosen to complete that shopping list. Now, I love that as a routine.
Speaker 1:There's various methods to do it. The method that I use most, uh, recently is, um, using this post-it pad. That is very popular right now, but there are other ways of doing it which are less expensive. Let's call it that way, but it's a great routine. I love the idea of having the shopping list.
Speaker 1:It justifies you know why you've got something written down, why they need to write something down. I'm all about justifying. You know why a spectator should write something down for you to reveal it? Well, in this instance, yeah, it's perfectly natural. I've got a shopping list. I need you to complete that shopping list. And here we are and I know what you've written down and whatever, there's different ways of presenting. You can almost present it that I've got a shopping list and I haven't completed it. And I haven't completed it on purpose, because I'm going to try and inject a thought into your mind here and you play it that way. You play it that you're trying to put the shopping list into their mind, to complete it, or you can do it as a prediction, or you know various ways to play it. But, yeah, a little shopping list routine which is a mind reading or prediction using a particular device.
Speaker 3:Let's put it that way what I really like about what you just said. You mentioned a notepad, which we'll talk about that for a second, because another thing that you could do with that, which is great, is have them circle one of the items that you've already written down, and then you would have two reveals there without much more effort, because you could just see where that has been circled, if that makes sense. But why did you go for this particular tool? Because I love the routine, but really, in terms of the method, that's the only thing we're considering when it comes to making the the trick work. If that makes sense, why did you go for that and did you use anything before that?
Speaker 1:Being very conscious of not wanting to sort of reveal methods specifically.
Speaker 1:So this particular method that I've discussed that I use nowadays is an electronic device which lets you gain this information one way or another.
Speaker 1:It's great because what it enables you to do is to have a separation, a distance from your spectator, and you never have to go back to that notepad once they've done whatever they needed to do. So there's no chance of them thinking that somehow you've gained that information by somehow secretly glimpsing it because you've received it back. You can be 10 feet away from them and it's that clean. So I think it's a lovely way of doing it. I did previously do it using another method, which was a low-tech version of it, but it did have the requirement for you to get the notepad back from them Still strong. But I think in the spectator's mind, if they're going to try and reconstruct and, as we all know, some spectators just want to enjoy the magic and enjoy the moment and buy into it and never give it a thought as to the method, but a lot of the times people do think back on how did they do that? Okay, what did he do that? Oh, he took it back, and maybe that's what it is. They might not quite know how they did it, but in their mind their justification is okay. They received it back, so therefore they've somehow got that information, which actually, in this case, they'd probably be right. So it doesn't actually matter if the spectator is right or not in the method. If they've got it out in their mind, they think they've beaten you, which which is fine because that's how the human mind works. It doesn't like to be deceived, it tries. It tries to justify the method, uh, whichever way they can and you know they may not be right, but it's nice if you can uh, have that distance, um, using you. You know the methods available to us today with electronics and such like.
Speaker 1:So, but, um, yeah, I really like the routine. As I said, I think it's important to in anything we do with magic is to try and justify. I know there's all sorts of justifications for writing things down. Uh, I want you to write it down so it's clear in your mind. And oh, that's why, when you're at school, they ask you to write things down, because it's clear in your mind, and that's why, when you're at school, they ask you to write things down, because you remember them, and things like that. Or write this down because I want you to show your friend, write it big and bold right in the center here. So I want you to show your friends. So there's no talking, so they can read it clearly, so there's no misunderstanding. Later on there's all sorts of justifications. So I like it as a routine. I like it as a, as a method as well. Um, with the, with this post-it pad that's become very popular. There's other ones out there, um, from different companies, different pricing, and uh, they're all pretty good nowadays. So, yeah, give it a go.
Speaker 3:It's a great little, great little routine and hopefully one day someone will create a really nice leather holder that will hold some sort of notepad inside funny.
Speaker 1:You should say that I don't want to. I didn't want to go there. But if people, um do have one of these, uh, post-it pads, they're great. Um, but you might want to look on my website. There could be something there which could elevate your experience of this. So, uh, I don't want to press it too hardly, but yeah, but uh, yeah, take a look yes, do that because they look phenomenal.
Speaker 3:Now that brings us to number five. So what is in your fifth spot?
Speaker 1:so in my fifth, Jamie. Actually, it is an Alakazam product by our very own Peter Nardi. I don't think I need to tell you how wonderful Peter is and Peter's mind. Peter's got an incredible mind. I think his thinking is something that I've admired for many, many years, as do many other people. And this item you will know it as Zoltar's Opener.
Speaker 1:I love Zoltar's Opener. In fact, for me, I prefer it to the Invisible Deck. I really really do. It's got an interesting hook to it. I love the premise of this mind-reading. You know Zoltar, who can apparently read your mind, and you don't even know how it's done. As a performer, it's like oh look, he gets it right all the time. I didn't even know how it's done. You know you can play it like that. It's a lot easier to perform than Invisible Deck. You don't have any how do I say this carefully RNS, there you go. You don't have any RNS, if that makes sense. You can show all the cards one by one very freely, and it still has that kicker impact right at the end. And I just love the whole premise of it. And again, it's so easy to perform. Uh, the premise of the trick is is really interesting and uh, it's hard hitting, so I absolutely love zolta's opener for me. Like I said, it's replaced my invisible deck wow.
Speaker 3:Well, we will make sure that he doesn't get too big of a head um after that. But I absolutely agree. I remember when I first saw it. It's such a quirk.
Speaker 3:I'm very much about the hook and, like you just said, I think the hook is so clever and one of my favorite routines many years ago was cue the magic. Um, and I loved the, the whole, them reading, and they are sort of performing the trick to themselves and always hope that there was a close-up version. And for me, I love the moment where, for those that haven't seen it, uh, there is writing around the box and the writing basically cues the audience to do the magic. So they're, they're essentially doing the magic to themselves with the aid of the box. So I always loved that. That was like the close up version of cue the magic. So, yeah, I think it's an absolute great choice. And again, is this something? I know that you said you don't perform, but this is our second card trick, so obviously we've had Red Hot Mama, chicago opener and now Zoltar's opener. Is this something that you would use nearer the beginning of your set or would you put this nearer the end as well?
Speaker 1:So when I was performing professionally, I don't think Zoltar's opener was around, I don't know when it was introduced to the market. It's sort of been on my radar for the past maybe five years or so and I think that's when I picked it up and immediately I thought, yeah, well, I'm not going to do Invisible Deck anymore, I don't think I need to, I prefer this handling. I prefer essentially, I prefer the whole premise, and so I'm going to pick this up and do this. So I don't think I ever performed it professionally and up and do that. So I don't think I ever performed it professionally and I don't think when I did perform professionally, I I never. I don't think I ever did two car tricks in the same set anyway.
Speaker 1:Um, and although this one, I think you could, you could fit in with another car trick because this is its own deck and it's its own sort of self-contained prop with the artwork on the box and, as you mentioned, all the wording around the box and the cards themselves. They're printed in such a way that you could separate it from a regular deck and in fact, 50% of the time actually, if you're performing with a regular bicycle deck, you can actually, if you did perform it with another card trick. You could actually have that card, or a card, appear in Zoltan's opener deck, if you know what I'm saying. So it is quite interesting. So I think you could work it with another card trick and let it stand up, you know, stand up to its own scrutiny and not having to worry about mixing it with another car trick per se.
Speaker 2:Hey guys, harry here from Alakazam Magic, I hope you're enjoying the podcast. I'm just here to interrupt and tell you a little bit about the Alakazam Magic Convention. It has taken us 35 years to get to this date. However, may the 9th 2026 will be the very first Alakazam Magic Convention. Now I know you guys are super excited, maybe just as excited as we are. First of all, the venue is a 37 minute direct train from central london. The venue is then literally a 10 minute walk from the train station. There's hotels within a stone's throw, there's restaurants nearby and there's incredible food and drink on site. That's all without even getting into the magic side of things. We are going to have four incredible lecturers performing throughout the day, including one person who's going to be flying over to their very first UK lecture. We are buzzing to announce who those four are. Not only that, there'll be dealers on site and a place for you guys to jam and session and meet new friends.
Speaker 2:Where are the lectures going to be held? This is my personal favourite bit about the Alakazam Convention. They're going to be happening in one of the cinema screens. That means fully tiered seating, comfy seats, a drink holder and there will be a close-up camera on the Jumbo cinema screen that will be giving you close-ups of all the little nuances that you're going to need to see when the lecturers are performing. There will, of course, be a full gala show to end the evening off. You guys are not going to want to miss it. The great thing is as well on the sunday, the day after, alakazam magic shop, which is a two minute drive, will be open. So if you're heading down to the convention, why not stay overnight and come and visit our magic shop? Remember, may the 9th 2026 tickets on sale now at alakazamcouk.
Speaker 3:See you guys soon yeah, no, I think you're absolutely spot on there. I think it's a great, great choice, uh, and leads us very nicely into number six. What was in your sixth spot?
Speaker 1:well, uh, funnily enough, accidentally, it is another alakazam release and it's strange and genuinely it's kind of an accident. Now, this whole exercise. I should say that this whole exercise is really interesting. I think everyone should sit down and put yourself on this desert island and go through with, you know, eight items that you can take along to the desert island. It's really interesting. But when I look back at what I enjoyed performing and things that were hard-hitting, it just so happened that number six on this list is another Alakazam release.
Speaker 1:It's by Colin Miller and Jamie Badman, two great magicians, two wonderful people, and it is, of course, heirloom. Specifically, I believe it's called emily's revenge version, uh, with the letter. Now, this is based upon um colossal, uh, colossal killer, um, and I always like colossal killer. It was great, but, I think, heirloom again.
Speaker 1:The premise of it just takes it to the next level having these oh, old, you talk about your you know great uncle, whatever name you want to give him, and you have these pictures, these old vintage pictures of them holding these playing cards, and you have this old antique letter with, you know, a story linked into the trick. I mean, it's such a lovely premise and and it's based on, as we said, um, a colossal killer, which is a great trick in itself, but it really takes this to the next level. I absolutely love it. I really enjoyed performing it. Uh, I don't perform it nowadays too much, um, because, uh, I sort of moved on from performing it, but something I definitely used to do when I used to perform professionally. It was great, great trick and I absolutely love it.
Speaker 3:I'm everyone knows this is up my street anyway. So I love a bit of storytelling magic and I think that every performer should have one trick in their set which is a little bit longer, a little bit more engaging, just for those right times, for those, because this is the kind of trick that you know it's a right place, right time in some respects, because there's a little bit more talking if you're going to go down the story route. Although you don't have to go down the story route if you don't want to, you can still play it a little bit more direct if you want. But I think from the colossal killer days, which I loved the colossal killer growing up, I think it's so brilliant and we've spoken to kenton nepa on this podcast about that in depth.
Speaker 3:Um, about how he came up with it and the idea of the off by one, and now, now that that's just a trope everywhere and the off by one joke, and it came from that trick. Um, but the compactness of this as well. I think that's what makes it takes colossal killer and it makes it a little bit more practical. Um, with the photos, because obviously you only have these, these tiny photos. So when you used to perform it? Would you perform it with a story, with a narrative, or would?
Speaker 1:you absolutely. I think it's so important. I think I think anyone who doesn't do it without, without the story, although it probably takes more time, but I think the story is so engaging and it's so believable. You know, people genuinely used to believe this and the props are beautiful, absolutely beautiful and, and it's very believable, it doesn't sort of uh, there's no sort of thinking that you know this, perhaps are just props that you buy, uh, from a magic shop.
Speaker 1:People used to buy into the idea that you carry around this photo, apparently of your great uncle and this is the card. It's amazing, um, and I know there's been various wallets and holders to use it over the year. I know, uh, was it? Tony curtis produced a wallet specifically for this and I think peter had a way with 65 pounds in his wallet. To you know, put them, put them in a certain place, if you know what I'm talking about. And there used to be versions which leather wallets, which you had a couple and they were four-way outs and you take it out in a particular way. But, yeah, wonderful, wonderful premise based upon a great principle by Ken Zanerva, as you mentioned, and brought into the next level by Colin Miller and Jamie Badman.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a great choice Now out of your set so far. So just reflecting on your set very quickly. We started with Real Die, then Circle of Destiny, red Hot Mama Imaginary Shopping List I've called it, but that's just the name that I've gone for Zoltar's Opener and Heirloom Emily's Revenge. Now from them you've only got one non-mentalism item so far, which of course is Red Hot Mama, chicago Opener. Everything else so far is mentalism. So does that reflect the way that you would perform? Are you primarily a mentalist and a mental magician, with a little bit of card magic sprinkled in?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think, as I've gotten older, I've certainly sort of pitched myself more as a mentalist than a magician, and I think that's something you can get away with as you get older. Funnily enough, I never felt that comfortable when I was younger, bearing in mind, you know, I started performing professionally early, sort of no late teens, you know. The heyday was sort of early 20s, certainly into my 30s, and then there's a certain credibility that comes with age when you're doing mentalism, something that I feel that perhaps my younger self couldn't necessarily get away with. And the great thing is, as you get older, you need glasses, which helps you do some mind reading in many situations.
Speaker 1:Is it Graham Jolly who used that line? I think he said something like oh I forget what it is now, but in order to do mind reading nowadays, I need to put my glasses on, and I think I've heard Mark Paul mention that as well a couple of times. So it's so true though, as we get older, we do need our glasses. But yeah, I would certainly say now I'm more of a mentalist than a magician, although I absolutely appreciate and still love magic, and it's interesting you picked up on that. About the items on the list being more mental. I never really consciously realized that, but we're about to change all that because number seven is probably going to throw us a little bit of a curveball.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow, there we go. I'm excited to see where this is going to go then. So we're on the tail end of your eight with number seven. Let's go for it.
Speaker 1:So number seven is not a card trick, but it's a trick with cards. And let me just build this up a little bit. I think I first saw this in Davenport somewhere in the 80s and I can't actually remember. It may have been, I really don't remember, maybe it was Pat Page, I don't know, but anyway I saw it and it just blew my mind and I'm talking about Roy Walton's card whoop.
Speaker 1:So it's not a card trick, as I said, it's a trick with cards and I just remember absolutely being blown away by this and it's one of those things when you learn the method, you actually fool yourself when you do it because it's so visual, it's just so amazing. And that little kicker at the end, when the card apparently is inside the other card and you tear it in half and you place the two halves of the card on the table and topologically your brain can't work out how they were folded in that way and yet they're inside out. It's just an amazing piece of cardboard art from the mind of Roy Walton and I just think it's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful piece of magic so you mentioned going to davenport.
Speaker 3:I think we've. I'm so sorry to our usa listeners when I say this, but, um, we, we talk about davenport a lot on this podcast because it does seem to be where so many magicians first saw things or first experienced things. And I remember you know it was card warp coin through rubber, um, crazy dazzle. I think it was um the with the foil backs, um, which was just rainbow cascade, rainbow cascade. Sorry, that's the one rainbow cascade. Yeah, these, these seem to be the tricks that all of us saw and absolutely the same as you, I remember seeing card warp in davenport's for the first time I'm not sure if they they were one of the official distributors of it at the time and because I I remember the, the, um, the paper which was just like a sheet of a4 paper with the davenport's lego on the top, um, but it is absolutely a phenomenal trick.
Speaker 3:And what I think is interesting, again reflecting on your list, is you've gone for red hot mama and chicago opener, which is a card trick, but it has sort of a strange element to it. And then you've gone for card warp, which is obviously not a card trick but a trick with cards, which again is just a bit of weird. It's a bit of strange. It's this weird where you know no one's quite sure what on earth is going on, quite frankly. So have you consciously gone for that to fit in with your sort of mentalism, persona as well, a way that you can integrate certain card tricks or tricks with cards that will work with your, your character?
Speaker 1:I don't think I've consciously done this. It's interesting to hear you, uh, deconstruct it and and you're probably right, and what you're saying, I just think it's a reflection of who I am and what I enjoy, and there's, you know, there's a million card tricks out there. Some of them are better than others, but I think ultimately there has to be for me, I guess, deconstructing all this, some visual element, something that you know it's not just a case of it could have happened mathematically Although there's some great card tricks out there which do incorporate that but it's just not for me. So, yeah, it's interesting you picked that up. I feel that this is almost like a little bit of therapy here. This is great.
Speaker 3:Now, in terms of versions of Card Warp, have you done what you did with Red Hot Mama and you've just stuck with the original, or have you explored any other versions?
Speaker 1:I haven't. I'm very much like. If I like something, I stick with it. I'm very loyal in that respect. There may be better versions than the original out there and I probably should have explored it, but I think it's something that you you know it's been with you such a long time. It's very difficult to move on. You know there probably are other versions out there that I should explore, but yeah, to answer your question, I've stuck with the original. I that I should explore.
Speaker 3:But yeah, to answer your question, I've stuck with the original I really have. Well, sometimes they're perfect the way they are, and I think Card Warp is very much there, that version of Card Warp where one card passes through the other and it starts turning over as it goes through. I just don't think there's going to be many tricks out there that are that direct and that clever. It's just so clever. Is the answer Right? That leads us to number eight. So, everyone listening at home, do we think we're going to go mentalism? Do we think we're going to go card trick or do we think we're going to go another curveball like card warp? All right, so you've got five seconds before Tony gets into it to see where you think this is going to go. So, tony, what did you put in number eight?
Speaker 1:Wow, so number eight. Actually, before I go number eight it's kind of a curveball because I'm going to throw in an honourable mention, if you don't mind. So before we reveal what's number eight, I'd like to mention Troy Horoy, who's as charming chinese challenge. Okay, so we're not dealing with cards here, but we're not dealing with mentalism here. We're dealing with a piece of ribbon and some coins, and some chinese coins at that.
Speaker 1:Um, I think this is great. It's something you can carry around with you, you know. Know, it really takes up no pocket space whatsoever, especially with the little leather case that I make for it. But that's a side note, you know, we'll steer away from that for a moment.
Speaker 1:But there's so much magic that happens in such a short space of time and I think it's just a beautiful routine. It's beautifully routined and there's a couple of versions out there, depending upon your uh level of ability. I know, um, josh jay takes it, you know, really extreme with one of the uh phases where he apparently throws it in midair and this coin just appears, uh, on this ribbon. He does it fantastically and his handling and the timing of it is just impeccable and it's a pleasure to witness. You don't have to do that in that way. You know, the moves are relatively simple. I don't think the routine doesn't take that long to master and, again, the impact it has on the spectators when performed well is just amazing. So that would be one of my honorable mentions, so I thought I had to stick that one in there well, I think that's.
Speaker 3:That's really teased us. For your eighth one now, because no one knows where it's going to go after that. But I agree, charming chinese challenge is phenomenal. And again, earlier on I mentioned, you know, cardp and Red Hot Mama being a little bit strange If I put you with a coin trick. You know, charming Chinese Challenge doesn't follow the conventional coin trick premises, right? This is the idea of this ribbon and these coins melting off one by one. So even that has some sort of bizarre element to it or a piece of of strange, something interesting in it which I think is really, really interesting. Uh, but it does lead us to the number eight, which I feel like we've built up now after that. So that was a great choice. And what is at number eight?
Speaker 1:so number eight put a little drum roll. Uh, it kind of uses two things, but one main thing, and it is the John Kennedy card box. John Kennedy card box so just to fill in what it is for those who may not know, it's a beautiful little wooden box and it has a lid on it. And the contents of the box, uh, is a chosen signed card. That has been in full sight the whole time that you've been performing. In fact, before you even started the trick, you may put this box down in the middle of a table on top of a glass, elevated so anyone could see it, wrapped with an elastic band so no one can touch it, and you do whatever routine you want to do and ultimately inside that box is the chosen signed card. And it is killer. It is phenomenal both in terms of the actual premise of having the folded signed card in that box and the method itself is so cheeky and beautifully made.
Speaker 1:And I mentioned I kind of have another thing along with this, and I quite often used to do it with Colin Rose's card index. It was like a wooden boat, if you know what I mean that used to sit in your pocket and you could at any moment produce a card that was named by steering them in a certain direction. It was great. It was really easy to use and I really loved it and I used it a lot with the john kennedy card box okay, wow.
Speaker 3:So I mean that is sort of a card trick, but you've gone down the mentalism flavor there, if you wanted to, because you mentioned using it with an index, um. So how would you present it? Would you go down the mentalism route or would you do a card routine, maybe? And then it appears in the box.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think the way I used to perform it professionally was a very, very simple, not a long, 36-phase ambitious card routine. It was like two-phase card routine, ambitious card routine and ultimately the signed cards would appear in the box that have been sitting on the table. I think I used to approach a table, for example, introduce myself, before we even start. I want someone to look after this, or maybe we'll put it in the middle of the table here. I just want you to know. That's there. Blah, blah, blah, do a couple of phase ambitious card and ultimately the chosen signed card would be there. That was one way of performing it. And then the second way would be the mentalism way. As I mentioned, using the index, you essentially get that card, whatever they thought of inside that box, apparently. So there's two ways of performing it. I'm sure there's many more ways, but that was two ways I used to perform it. One is magic and the other one using mentalism.
Speaker 3:Well, that's a great way to round out your list. So we had Real Die Circle of Destiny, red Hot Mama, chicago Opener, imaginary Shopping List using that special pad Zoltar's Opener, he heirloom, emily's revenge card warp, the john kennedy card box mix with the colin rose card index. Now we've given you eight tricks, tony, but for your last three items you're only allowed one each of them. So these are your little curveball items. So I want you to imagine that you're going to dig a big sandy hole and you're going to throw something inside from our industry and then cover it up to never be seen again. What are you going to banish in your island?
Speaker 1:Wow, I mean, this was probably the most difficult thing, to be honest with you and I'm not sure your previous guests, um, if they mentioned how difficult this is, because you know, I love this industry, I love it so much. But you know, once in a while there's something that crops up that you think, oh my god, that is so cringe, we just need to get rid of it. Um, now, what I'm going to put into this hole and banish this is no reflection on the actual original creator, because I've seen different ways of performing this, and I'll explain. I'll justify what I'm about to say by a little buildup. The trick itself is great, the premise is great, it is hard hitting. It is just that sometimes people perform this in such a cringe way that we have to banish this. And I don't know if anyone is ahead of the game here. And don't get me wrong, I actually like the trick, but certain performances of it and I'm talking about French Kiss, like I said, I think the trick itself is great. There are different ways of performing it. You can have people, you know, just put their hands up side by side. You can, you know, especially since COVID times. I mean just the thought of doing this trick post-COVID just sends chills down my spine. Just to think that people do perhaps perform it in this way and you just see some performances.
Speaker 1:Maybe I should explain the premise of this trick for those who don't actually know. So the idea is in its basic form a couple of cards are selected and signed. The performer has one, the spectator has one in their mouth. I've seen a performer and this is what I want to banish where the performer and the spectator actually kiss and that's where the name, I guess French kiss comes from and then, apparently by magic, those two signed cards change position in the mouth of the performer and the spectator. As I said, that's the version I want to banish, this whole cringe version where the magician, you know, cringely goes up to the performer quite often an attractive young lady and just oversteps the mark.
Speaker 1:Let's get rid of this. I hate it and I don't want to take anything away from the original creator, wade Houchin, great guy, great magician. Got to spend some time with him at the Niemann's Convention in November, I believe last year, and again I put the performances of certain magicians using this not the trick itself or not the creator because they really stand up to scrutiny. And there's nothing, absolutely there's nothing wrong with them at all. It's just some of the people who perform this trick. They've taken it to a place where it should never have been taken. So, yeah, that's what, uh, I would put in there.
Speaker 1:I don't know if, at this point, we're allowed to put honorable mentions and banish them as well, but, uh, there's a, there's a. I don't know, it's just me. I hate the egg bag routine. I don't know why. I just can't stand it. I've never seen a convincing, entertaining performance of the egg bag and please, if you think there is one out there, I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong. Put a comment on this, or drop me an email, or drop dang me an. Let me know where I can see this and I will gladly put the record straight. But up to this point in time, I've never seen one.
Speaker 3:Well, I think that's the first honorable mention banishment we've ever had. That's great, that's exciting. That's a podcast first. Well, we have taken all of the cringe performances of french kiss and we have buried them on your item on your island. So french kiss itself still exists in the world. Just those cringy, awkward performances are gone from our industry. And the egg bag is maybe in a cage at the moment on your island it's not quite, quite buried yet it's just a new cage.
Speaker 3:Now that brings us to your book. So what did you put in your book position?
Speaker 1:Ah, the book. Wow, I mean, it's so difficult, isn't it, to pick one book. I was thinking about my journey in magic and sort of where it started, and I was tempted and this you might think I'm saying this under the guise of honorable mention, but I will mention it anyway and it was Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic. That's the book that got me started. I absolutely love it. There's so much in there, so much in there, and it really lit a spark within me and made me follow on, turned me into who I am today. That was the original book that I first picked up. But if I were to take one book with me, I think it would have to be the Mind and Magic of David Berglaas, that big, thick, purple book. It's a masterclass in psychology and performance. Impossible thinking, I think. If I'm stuck alone on the island, it will keep my brain ticking and my imagination entertained for years and years to come.
Speaker 1:I had the great honor of knowing David and calling him a friend and he was an amazing guy and he I think I first met him when I very first joined the magic circle and I didn't really know much about him, but he just looked like what a magician should look like in my mind.
Speaker 1:He just he had this air about him and he had an incredible, incredible mind and and he, he took a liking to me which you know. We used to meet up quite often at the Brass Rail in Selfridges before the Magic Circle on a Monday night and we used to sit and chat and it was incredible to have that insight from him. And you know, obviously in his latter years we didn't see much of him, but obviously Marvin and I, his son, have become good friends as well. You know, uh, I've got, obviously in his latter years we didn't see much of him, but obviously marvin and I, his son, um, have become good friends as well. We still are. We speak very often because we're both, uh, he's obviously president of the magic circle. I'm currently, as this podcast being recorded, I'm deputy chair of the magic circle, so we talk very often about various things, um, but, yeah, the mind and magic of david burglars incredible book. I actually love it yeah, it's one.
Speaker 3:We've had it on the podcast, and for good reason.
Speaker 3:I think it's going to be one of those books that just comes up time and time again um because I think from uh, certainly mark paul's episode when he speaks of david, of David Burglass just the influence he has had on so many people's careers, yeah I think it's phenomenal. But more than that, I think it thinking about the magic trick way of thinking, I think he actually influenced the way a lot of mentalism routines are now structured and put together. Certainly the chair test I know has been a huge influence from his works over the years. So in terms of that book, is there a specific? I'm putting you really on the spot here, tony, I'm sorry. Is there a trick that you can think of specifically that has really influenced your career?
Speaker 1:I don't think there's any specific trick, but I think what you can take overall and this comes from the book, but also from knowing him personally is actually to take risks. It's amazing the payoff you can get from taking risks controlled risks it's incredible. I think it's so powerful and David was one for taking risks. He wouldn't mind, you know, taking a punt on something for the bigger payoff, and I think that's what we can take from that book. It is great. I mean, it wasn't a cheap book. When it was first released, I think it was a limited print.
Speaker 1:I've seen them go for crazy money secondhand. Uh, it's a book that is constantly in demand. Um, and you know it, it, it, it fetches, you know high prices. When I've seen them out there, uh, in excess of several hundred pounds, even you know a thousand pounds. But the information in there and just the thinking and just the psychology is brilliant. I really recommend there in excess of several hundred pounds, even you know a thousand pounds, but the information in there and just the thinking and just the psychology is brilliant. I really recommend you beg, borrow or steal one. No, don't steal one, please don't steal one. Beg and borrow one, but give it back.
Speaker 3:They're going to be at your door tomorrow. You watch, they're going to be knocking at your door trying to get to your coffee. Great, well, let's go to your item then.
Speaker 1:So what was your non-magic item that you use for magic? Well, ah, I mean, this required a little bit of creative thinking, because you know, what is a non-magic item that I use for magic? I you know I'd have everyone's going to say their iphone, and that's the obvious choice. I say everyone, a lot of people, I'm sure. I've said iphone. I think I've heard it myself on the podcast. You know, that's the non-magic item for me.
Speaker 1:If I were to interpret this question slightly differently, for me personally, I'd have to say my coffee machine. Now, you think, how am I going to use that for magic? Well, it does. Honestly, I need my coffee machine. I need my coffee in the morning because that gets my brain working and that enables me to create and, to, you know, make my leather goods that are used for magic and create effects and create routines and just magical thinking. So without my coffee machine, I'm nobody. I need my coffee in the morning. I'm addicted to it. I'm here, this is my confession to everyone listening. I am an addict. Yes, tony antonio the mind hacker, I am an addict. Yes, tony, and Tony are the mind hacker. I am an addict, but it's a coffee addict, a caffeine addict. So, yeah, I'm taking my coffee machine onto the island.
Speaker 1:But if we were to go more specific, a magical item that I use for magic that is not necessarily a magic item. I have always with me a finger ring which is made out of a half item. I have always with me a finger ring which is made out of a half crown, and it's a half crown from 1968, the year I was born that's how old I am, ladies and gentlemen and I just love fiddling with it. I am a fiddler by nature. I just always have something in my hand. My hands need something to do and I'm messing around with it and I'm manipulating my hands. And of course, you can use it for all sorts of things. You know various magical effects where you apparently make it go from one hand to the other, one finger to the other, and it's just a lovely sort of object I have in my hands constantly messing around with it. So it would be my 1968 half crown that is made into a finger ring.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, you'll be pleased to know that when you bought your coffee machine it had a free little prize that came with it, and that was a finger ring.
Speaker 1:So you get both of those we're going to give you both of those on your item.
Speaker 3:You'll also be pleased to know you can get fresh coffee beans on your island as well, of course that's a given.
Speaker 3:That's be pleased to know. You can get fresh coffee beans on your island as well, of course. That's a good, that's great. So let's go back over your list. We went for real. Die circle of destiny, red hot mama, chicago opener, imaginary shopping list using that special pad zartar's opener heirloom, emily's revenge card, walk john kennedy card box with the colin rose card. Your banishment was awkward performances of French kiss with an egg bag in a cage. Your book was the mind and magic of David Burglars and your item is a coffee machine with a free finger ring thrown in. What a great list, tony.
Speaker 1:Wow, when you read it back like that, you know I'm very proud of that list, I think. Obviously it's a personal thing, it might not appeal to everyone, but I, I, I like to think that at least you know the listeners can pick up one or two of those items and at least, if they've not considered it, please do consider it. I think you, you'll get a lot from it. And, uh, these are tried and tested things for over years and years and years, and I think it ultimately is what you make of it.
Speaker 3:So give it a go yeah, there's some really really powerful, powerful routines on there and pieces of magic and some of the little insights that you've given to how you would perform. Some of them certainly the the real die when we're talking about that. Um, you know the the way that you routine things sounds really really interesting as well, which I think is really good. It'll get people thinking. Now, if people want to find out more about you, tony, it's certainly about the incredible leather goods that you have and Circle of Destiny, and maybe if you've bought one of these clever post-it pads of recent days, then do check out the holder that Tony has has. But, tony, if they want to find out more about that about you, where can they go to?
Speaker 1:yeah, so thanks, jamie. Uh, my website is the mind hackercouk and I'm quite active on facebook. Uh, if you want to have a chat or have a question, just type my name in Tony Antonio, into Facebook. You'll find me on my personal page and you'll find the Mind Hacker on Facebook as well. So, yeah, come and find me there.
Speaker 3:Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time, Tony.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's been incredible. I've really enjoyed it. It's a lovely island you've got here A lovely island I'm ruined on. I'm quite enjoying the peace and tranquility and it's been a wonderful exercise. It's been really interesting coming up with this list and I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Really appreciate your time as well, jamie. Thank you.
Speaker 3:Well, with the budget that Pete has given me for getting out this island, I think you'll appreciate the the things that we've done with it, and it's very, very nice. So thank you, guys, for listening. Of course, we're going to be back next week with another episode, but until then, have a great week.
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