Desert Island Tricks
Each week we invite one of the biggest guests in the world of magic to maroon themselves on a desert island. They are allowed to take with them 8 tricks, 1 book, 1 banishment and 1 non magic item that they use for magic! We discuss their 'can't live without' lists and why those items were chosen.
Episodes are uploaded every Friday and are available via all Podcast service providers!
To find out more about the team behind Desert Island Tricks, please visit: www.alakazam.co.uk
Desert Island Tricks
James Brown
What if everything you thought about magic was missing the point entirely? Prolific creator James Brown shatters conventional wisdom about magical performance, revealing that the true essence of magic isn't found in secrets, techniques, or special abilities, but in the powerful human connections we create.
James' journey into magic wasn't the traditional path. Without childhood exposure or magician parents, he approached the art without the constraints and rules most practitioners inherit. This fresh perspective allowed him to focus intensely on what truly matters: creating genuine moments of wonder through psychological understanding rather than technical mastery. His revolutionary approach to classics like Card Under Box and Double Cross demonstrates how reframing effects around spectator experience rather than magician prowess creates more powerful, memorable magic.
Through his desert island selections, from the incredible "Push" to his signature "Pot of Jam”, James reveals a philosophy that places human connection at the centre of magical performance. He challenges the ego-driven culture that pervades much of modern magic, where exposure fears and celebrity worship distract from magic's true purpose. In an age where AI threatens to replace content creation, James argues that magic offers something irreplaceable: genuine human interaction that creates moments of wonder no technology can duplicate. His passion for creating experiences so powerful that methods become irrelevant offers a refreshing counterpoint to the anxieties about exposure that consume many performers.
James’ Desert Island Tricks:
- Push
- Card Under Box
- Top Change
- Coinvexed
- Crazy Mans Handcuffs
- Double Cross
- Pot of Jam
- Coins Across
Banishment. Magicians Ego / Exposure & Quality of magic on Social Media
Book. Reality as an Art by Aaron Alexander
Item. Mind of the Spectator
Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
There's a huge amount of exposure, and I'm not just talking about those accounts that are just set up to expose magic, which you know I'm not a great fan of but more importantly it's the lack of quality control in the content that magicians are putting out, with glaringly obvious reveals going on, and I'm worried that there's a cynicism involved in that, where these magicians, whose desire for fame and fortune and power and notoriety, understand that bad videos, exposure videos, careless videos, caught controversy in the comment section. And that's how they make money. And you know the old uh, is it steinmeier comment magicians guard an empty safe. I think the problem is a lot of magicians think their safe is full of gold and it's not. It's empty.
Speaker 1:You know we're pretending to do these things. We're not really doing these things. I can't really read your mind. I don't really have power over the elements around me. Go to a magic convention and see people walking around with their entourage following them, you know, worshipping at their, at the hem of their garment, and I can't help but just go. Am I the only person that goes? But you do know that none of this is real, don't you?
Speaker 3:Hello and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. Today's guest is someone that we've had mentioned in other people's lists, and for good reason. Today's guest was the close-up magician of the year in 2006, and in the same year he actually came second in the international magic conventions close-up competition. So you know he has chops. One of his incredible releases that I remember growing up was actually the professional opportunist, which was with russ stevens company rsvp magic, and when this dvd set came out, everyone absolutely raved about it, and for good reason, of course. His card under box is infamous now amongst magician. Everyone uses it and, of course, fancy a pot of jam, which was the 11p trick originally. When that pot of jam appears for the first time, it is baffling.
Speaker 3:Now, on top of all of this, on top of all of the releases and the tricks and competitions that he's put out, he's actually a consultant for some incredible projects as well. So he was the consultant for beyond magic with dmc. He worked with troy on channel four's program. He was a consultant for dynamo is Dead and recently worked on the Mission Impossible film as a pickpocket consultant. How's that for your CV? Now, we always do this, guys, james Brown, bingo. So write down now what you think is going to be on this list. I'm going to go out on a limb and say fancy, a pot of jam, I think card on the box. But we, we'll find out. I'm not going to speculate anymore. Of course, today's guest is the wonderful james brown. Hello, james, uh, hello hello.
Speaker 1:Indeed, as you were giving that wonderful intro uh, number one I was actually quite surprised that I'd done all of those things. Uh, it's, it's nice. It's nice to be reminded um number two. I was also thinking wouldn't it be hilarious if you applied for a job at the bank of england and it's sort of that was on your cv? Just are we sure we've thought this chap out? Are we certain we want him working here? Do you know what? As I get older and and sort of you know the, the reality of age and life and all the other things comes into sharp focus. I started to think to myself if I couldn't do magic, what on earth would I do? I mean, I've got all these weird talents, but how many of them are in any sense transferable outside of a TED Talk? That is, it's lovely to be here. Thank you for allowing me to join in the alumni that has gone before me in this space and Dan Chard, so yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, you've been in this game for such a long time Like I say, the RSVP DVDs would have been well over 10 years ago, I should think at this point but you've literally been creating and you've been in this field for well as long as I can remember. Being in magic, I would say.
Speaker 1:I think you're giving away your usefulness because you consider 10 years to be a long time. There are some people in my age bracket and above listening to this podcast right now, screaming, screaming at the speaker. How dare you Ten?
Speaker 3:years I've got socks older than that you little shites. All I can think is that there'll be magicians who are currently coming up through magic that don't even know what DVDs are. That's the concerning thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but there's those of us who started out our days with the old tricker tapes, a grainy image of Pat Page from a rather precarious angle. Yeah, I mean, those were the days. Some people at the time, we all said that books were better, and they were, because it was at least the picture quality it was worth seeing. Yeah, I do. I look back at some of those old, particularly the old tapes, the old VHS cassettes, and you think how did we learn anything off those? They were so badly made, so grainy. I've lost everybody under the age of 30, I realise in the last couple of moments.
Speaker 3:So when you put your list together, did you find it particularly easy or hard? Are these like classics that you've always done, or is it a mixture of new things, old things, I suppose?
Speaker 1:it's really kind of just classics. It's the stuff that I wouldn't do without nowadays. It's the stuff that I wouldn't do without nowadays. So in a sense, it was very hard to not just pick from what my current working repertoire is. There's lots of magic that I absolutely love, but if the question was, what would I want with me? Well, I'd have to go for the stuff that I do, the stuff that I get the greatest reactions from and the stuff that gives me the most pleasure to perform. So, yeah, working repertoire.
Speaker 1:But I think I mean, I've always said this, I've never thought of myself as a creator. I think I've always seen myself as a tinkerer. I like just sort of refining the edges of things and, and, yeah, just playing with ideas really. So, yeah, most, most of my stuff, to be honest, is you know it, you mentioned card in the box and I always, when somebody says, oh, I love your card in the box, I always think, well, which one it's? It's, it's, it's grown and shifted and morphed significantly over the last 25 years or whatever it is that I've been doing this bizarre, bizarre work for. So, yeah, I think I tend to be a tinkerer. I tend to like to just play gracefully with little ideas here and there and see what happens.
Speaker 3:Now you mentioned that your card under box changed, and there and see what happens. Now you mentioned that your card under box changed and when I remember you, I always remember your like the hypnosis, the pickpocketing but also really clever card plots, and I think what was really interesting was the way that you merged hypnosis with card plots, but in a really unique, interesting, engaging, which hadn't been done before. So in terms of your material, has there been like a change in your material? Have you progressed in a certain way, or are those still the solid foundations that you go back to time and time again?
Speaker 1:I think the way that my magic has grown, to be honest, is that I've become more interested and more focused and more centered on the people that I'm performing for. Uh, and and and, less about any sense of you know does. Does this make me look good or, you know, I don't know I'm. I'm interested now in creating magic. It sounds so pretentious to say out loud, I realize that, but I think that we have at times because it's not always pertinent at times we have an opportunity to really give somebody an experience, something that is magical, that is a truly positive, good, joy-filled, wonder-filled experience that doesn't necessarily have to also coincide with hey, everyone, look at me. And whilst there is absolutely a time and a place for that sort of self-publicity, I guess I also sort of just think well, it runs a big risk, in my view, of diluting a real moment of magic that somebody else could experience. The whole thought process in their mind of how did they do that, coupled with the sort of the look of glee and ego on the magician performing it, I think gets in the way of somebody actually just stepping into a true moment of astonishment, a true moment of wonder.
Speaker 1:I'm more interested in tiny subtleties, how a shift of a word or a gesture or a body movement or a subtle shift in a frame, how these things tend to add up to a huge difference, more than waiting for the next big thing to come out, buying a new electronic piece of wizardry which, don't get me wrong, they're astonishing, they're absolutely amazing. Amazing. But are they, instead of the the the real magic of human connection, the real magic of creating worlds, creating moments, you know, creating emotional resonance for other people? And maybe, just maybe, there are occasions where the fancy gadget or the fancy new slight is a substitute for for actual connection? I've realized this. My brain is just rambled down, this lovely meadow of joyous nonsense that I've got no idea what the hell it was you asked me to start with.
Speaker 3:I think you answered that brilliantly. I mean, I would have said that a lot of your material, even in the early days, was about the audience's experience. Certainly in terms of those hypnosis, dual reality moments that you used to put together. I always used to think, wow, that's that must be so trippy for an audience member to experience for the first time yeah, I do.
Speaker 1:You know what I think. Part of why, of why my sort of journey into magic is not the traditional journey and as a result of coming into magic sort of around about university time and having no interest or knowledge in the subject before then and I mean none at all I have vague recollections of seeing Paul Daniels on the TV and not really giving a stuff, and I have some sort of early memory of seeing you know magicians at various childhood things, but again never being of interest to me. As a result of that, I think I started magic without a handful of presuppositions that maybe exist within the magic world, and certainly if you kind of come into it via a parent who's a magician you know or a magic set as a child, there are certain kind of rules and restrictions and ways of thinking that are sort of set out, I think, for people in the industry. I didn't have any of that. I came in from a totally weirdly different direction and made it up as I went along for quite some time before I then sort of ran into the magic world, so to speak, and suddenly realized, oh right, some of my very core motivations and thinking don't seem to be quite in line with everybody else in certain ways, you know, and along the way, it makes you some money and you know, it gets you involved in some fun things and you get to travel the world and it's wonderful, uh. But it was never, and it still isn't, a defining feature of my life, of me. It's taught me lots of stuff and I love it beyond measure.
Speaker 1:When the pandemic came and I had that five years off, as we all did, I didn't panic and need to need to do something. I was actually quite happy just to go. Oh, you know that might never come back and you know, when it did come back, I was really happy it did and I absolutely jumped back into it and I loved every second. But I didn't feel that sense of, oh, this is, this is the defining feature of me. This is, uh, you know, and as a result of that, I was just happy to to just spend all my time thinking of more fun ways of taking myself out of the picture magically, which is terrible for business. By the way, just if you're listening to this and you want to be a successful businessman in magic, don't listen to anything I'm saying with regards to this, because you won't do well out of it. But if your desire is to think differently, then yeah, I think it's well worth really exploring. What is it to experience magic? What does it feel like for them?
Speaker 3:So, if this is your first time listening to the podcast, the idea is we're about to maroon James on his very own magical island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks banish one item, take one book and one non-magic item that he uses for magic Particulars like who's there? What's there? All of that good stuff we do not mind. This lives in James's own imagination. So, that being said, let's go to your island, james, and find out what you put in position number one.
Speaker 1:Well, I put in position one, an effect or my handling of an effect called Push, which is created by the astonishing Aaron Alexander, or Aaron Alexander, who I will mention again later. For that, to be honest, I love it because, out of everything I've ever done or ever seen, it is, in my mind, the closest thing to real, as makes no odds. It's not hypnosis, although people will assume it probably could be or might be, and there are methods of doing it that would be hypnosis, but this isn't, and that's again one of the reasons why I love it, that it just works on everybody. I've ever done it on um, since I've, like, got it right and you know, understand what I'm doing, uh, but the principle is very simple and that is, I can take two complete strangers and and I mean total strangers and I can have them stand I don't know six foot in front of each other, facing each other, and one of them is given a power, and the power is to move an object with their mind In this case it's the other human being and they stand six foot apart. One looks at the other and holds their hand up and just pushes their hand slowly forward and as they do that, the other person falls backwards and is caught by somebody else like a trustful, without touch.
Speaker 1:What I love about it is that none of the people involved have any idea how it's done. None of the people have to be stooged or set up. It works in a way that I can turn on and turn off that ability. Literally, I can say, as long as you're touching my finger, you've got the power. The moment I let go, it doesn't work any longer. But then if you touch my finger, it works again. It's real and and both parties when you, when you get into it properly and you framed it and there's you know, there's lots of other contexts that always work for storytelling and magic anyway, but let's assume that you've got context and storytelling going on um, both parties inevitably say that they felt something. The person pushing says I felt that I felt some energy, something left me, I felt it. And the other person falling says I felt an energy push me over.
Speaker 1:I absolutely adore it and, again, one of the reasons why I love it is that it does not appear directly that I'm doing anything other than literally just giving and taking away a superpower to somebody. It's just the finest piece of magic. And what's great is, even when you know how it's done because of how it works it still works. So I can do it to you, fool you completely with it, then explain to you exactly what's just happened. And it still works, even though you now know, because ultimately, there is actual science going on. In the background of this, there is something that isn't based on trickery, which is why it's real. That isn't based on trickery, which is why it's real, and I think that that alone it's an incredibly powerful piece, and it is by far and away the thing that I'm most proud of being a part of its development, and I'm certainly most proud of the effect itself. I just think Aaron is a genius of a human being and I'm delighted that he's also my friend.
Speaker 3:That sounds like an incredible trick. Now I guess that falls under the PK bracket. I guess, yes, or pseudo-hypnosis, perhaps yeah it's definitely.
Speaker 1:I mean, you could definitely put it into a PK effect. I mean, look, the basic principle means that I could easily be the person doing the pushing. The original method was it gave you the ability to seemingly push somebody over. I adapted it to this idea of giving some know, making it about other people entirely, uh, which just changed the frame. It also stopped people fighting against it. If they might feel inclined to fight against the magician, they're less inclined to fight against a fellow audience member, even if they're not aware that that's the case. I don't want it to be, because the point is the really tricky one.
Speaker 1:If you do hypnosis, like whatever your definition of hypnosis might be, let's assume it's a standard one but you do something hypnotic with regards to you give a suggestion and it becomes their reality and they respond. That's real, but in the sense of how anything is real, which is our brain takes the information and constructs the reality that we live in. That is the science of it in a nutshell. So when you hypnotize somebody, you can arguably say this was real by that definition, as opposed to when you do a trick, where the person feels tricked and one of the dangers of calling something pseudo-hypnosis is that it drops it from the category of the real unknown in inverted commas the real in inverted commas, unknown to something that just becomes like, oh okay, it's now into the category of it was a trick of some description. So I'm never sure whether pseudo-hypnosis as a category title is actually a sensible one.
Speaker 1:As an aside, I think it can create the wrong kind of mental frame. Is this eye candy, a trick, something fun that I'm just being invited to watch, knowing full well that it's not real, that I can just go oh, look, the coin vanished and reappeared. How fantastic. Or is this in the category of something where I go oh, hang on a minute, and you think about mentalism?
Speaker 1:You can present something as a mentalism routine which the audience knows it's a mind reading flavor, but they still engage with it 100% on the same level of ah, he's fooled us somehow, we don't know how, but you can produce, uh, the same effect, essentially with a different flavor to it and a different tone to it. Where the audience now go oh, I don't know. Actually, like my logical brain is saying it must be a trick, but my felt senses are going oh, no, that felt real. Like, wow, that you know. There's no way you could have known what I was thinking, kind of moment, and I think the pseudo factor where these things are concerned, I think it can throw you down the wrong alleyway a little bit.
Speaker 3:It's a great entry in at number one and that takes us to number two. So what's in your second position?
Speaker 1:I better speed up with these. I'm rabbiting all the way too much. Uh, second position card under box. Um, I, I've loved it from from day one. It for me it began with uh, card under glass. Um, doc eason's card under glass was where it started, and it literally started with Doc putting a card under my drink and I had no idea who it was or anything to do with this effect, and it just. I met him at a thing many, many years ago and he put a card under my drink and it changed everything for me, like it was one of those plateau moments where I suddenly I suddenly got how, how you could do something right under somebody's nose and they would miss it and then you could do it again and again and you could tell them that you were going to do it and still do it again. Um, yeah, I fell in love with the idea. And then just I think, practicality you see other magicians do stuff as well the box is a more practical thing to carry around.
Speaker 1:I started playing around with using the box for the routine. I think it might actually be because I saw devil's picture book, um, devon brown's video, uh, back in the day. Um, uh, so, yeah, I, it sort of grew from there and it. It's just one of those things that is so jazzable, uh, and my magic's always been that way. I've never really scripted anything. I just I like to just get in there and play and see where, see where things are taken. Jazzable, and my magic's always been that way. I've never really scripted anything. I just I like to just get in there and play and see where, see where things are taken, and and work with the cards and the box. This. It's just so different in the sense that there were so many things you can do with those two items combined.
Speaker 1:It also took to big box for me, as does, as is all my magic, and that is, uh, I want it to be effortlessly understood. What's going on? I don't, I don't, you know, I don't want something where people are going hang on a minute. So I needed to deal down three piles and then count to 10 and and take away my. Was it the first number or the second number? I don't want any of that long windedness. I want, I want things where it's just there, it's clear as day, it's, it's as stark as you like, and I love, I love the misdirection more than anything else.
Speaker 1:Misdirection to me, is the heart of closeup magic. It's the, it's the absolute joy of of fooling their mind, not their eyes, fooling their mind like, even down to it, almost encouraging them to look right here and and making sure that that's actually where you do the dirty work, is where they think they're looking because you've distracted their attention, their mind, just just at the right moment, for the right duration, so they're unaware of it. So after the fact they look back at them on their own memory and they go. I never took my eyes off, I was staring at it the whole time. Um, you know a misdirection is is where that sits, and you know a misdirection is where that sits, and you know, as anybody who's followed my work over the years, particularly the closer work, it's 99% misdirection. And Card Under Box is exactly that. It's a well-choreographed piece and it has made my career, without a shadow of a doubt. Card Under Box, and I don't mean within the magic world, it has made my career, without a shadow of a doubt. Card in the box, and I don't mean within the magic world, I mean it's made my my, my professional career.
Speaker 1:Um, that moment where, particularly in cocktail, which is which is actually. Here's another thing, just quickly. Quite often the stuff I put out were variations of what I was doing. Uh, often the stuff I put out were variations of what I was doing, but usually the sort of the way I put it out was different. So, for example, card Under Box started as an answer to the cocktail question of how you do card under glass when we stood up and people are holding their drinks. So the origins for me were to solve that puzzle. So I originally created the effect which was just using the card box balanced on top of somebody's drink, and everything actually emanated from that effect, which I don't, I think I may have released as a bonus years later on one of the projects, uh, this idea, but it was always the start of it and it's actually the thing I do the most of these days.
Speaker 1:And that moment for the audience where, uh, the, the, the pack of cards just vanishes right in front of them, uh, to, to, you know, with the exception of their own card. Uh, and after that happens because there's layers of suggestion that goes on with it as well after that happens, the person holding the, the drink which, up until this moment, the pack, has been empty, as far as they're concerned, balanced on top of their glass. At this moment, their brain goes oh, I can suddenly feel weight, and they get the experience of the cards vanishing in front of them and the experience of them appearing in the box. As they suddenly feel the box gets slightly heavier, it, it blows their mind and it's just it's card under box, but just framed differently, with a different pace to it. A much more physical level of misdirection is employed as well to make all of that work.
Speaker 1:But I wouldn't be without it. It's yeah, you can do one trick that lasts four minutes, if you want it to, and and then, and then never have to do another trick at that table again because there's there's not an awful lot you could bother with after that. Uh, and because of the pace of it as well, even if somebody goes oh, I don't like card tricks, it doesn't matter because it's not really about, it's not really a card trick. Not, it's not about. Remember your card, here's your signed card, here's the things that go on. The fact that you've got a signed card, is it? It's, it's something for you to pin your attention on, but nothing more than that. The rest of it is just objects vanishing and reappearing impossibly, uh, mostly while you're interacting with them as well. So, yeah, I love it. It's a piece of genius.
Speaker 1:Whoever originally thought of pairing these things together needs to be applauded for it. Also, by the way, I'm fully aware that there are loads of other people that have put a huge amount of time and effort into card-under-box material and, uh, whilst a certain magic company, um, felt that, uh, the use of the phrase the ultimate card under box was suitable, uh, I'm fully aware that it's. It's, it's a card under box day. There's lots of them around and we, we've all, at some level, pulled our mental resources to come up with the ones that we've got. So, yeah, I share the credit with every, every other bugger out there who's playing with a card in the card box well, I'm glad it's on your list now.
Speaker 3:You mentioned that you've developed it and it's changed, so in which way has it changed since your original conception of it?
Speaker 1:It's more modular, it's shorter. To be honest, I kind of realised that you don't have to have all the phases in to make it impactful. Mostly it's just the practicality of doing it in different situations. As I said, it's about framing it on top of a glass that somebody's holding in a cocktail setting. You know, looking at how you could make use of the table space. You know, putting it on top of a glass in the middle of the table, that kind of thing. Being more bold with certain loads.
Speaker 1:There's a, I think my sort of favorite addition was just a lovely bit of choreography that I came up with at the right, at the front end of the routine um, which allows you to first of all make the card appear on top of the box, but without moving the box away. It's, it's, it's not just under their nose, but you're actually getting them to focus right next to the box that the cards already been loaded on, um, and I think I enjoy that, just just because there's that beautiful moment where you know this is right, slap bang in the center of their vision. Yeah, the brain can't see it. That's a lovely, lovely place to be, um, and then there's just a nice bit of choreography that allows me to, yet the brain can't see it. That's a lovely, lovely place to be. And then there's just a nice bit of choreography that allows me to hand the box to somebody to hold onto, then vanish the selection again and have it appear under the box whilst it's being held onto.
Speaker 1:And they're just management. It's just like a lot of stuff I've always done. It's just're just management. It's just like a lot of stuff I've always done. It's just about attention management, uh, you know, managing the attention and uh, kind of guiding how the story unfolds in their own thinking, where you reveal it's under the box that it all clicks into place. And then you know, ideally, their senses kick in and suddenly tell the brain yes, there's another, there's an object here. I can feel it now, feeling into the illusion that it appeared.
Speaker 3:Amazing. So that leads us very nicely into number three. So what was in your third position?
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm going to cheat slightly here. Third position is a move. To be honest, um, and it's a top change. I, I've I realized that, of all the things in magic, the concept of the top change, and not just with cards but that notion, um, of doing something like that, I've just used it. I've used it so much. I even once did an entire gig. This is no word of a lie. I did an entire gig for a corporate event where I did nothing but top change. That was it. That was the act. I just went around group to group and just had fun with just getting cards to change. You know, you hold it, you hold it. Boom keeps changing. And people loved it.
Speaker 1:And I was giggling to myself because I just thought this is hilarious, this is just ridiculous that I've done, I think I did a double lift and a top change, let's be honest. But the first one doesn't count as a move. It's just a thing we do, isn't it? Yeah, but I think I can't remember a card trick that I've in any sense been creative with that didn't involve at least one of those I even have. Ah, this could be a competition to work out which one it is. I even have a published effect that whilst it's not in the published effect, every time I perform the effect, about halfway through the effect, I throw in a uh, a double top change. That is not needed. I just top change and top change back, for no other reason than it makes me giggle, just to just to do that pointless move Again, just to demonstrate it's so beautifully invisible. I'm also lazy and, quite frankly, it's a really easy thing to do.
Speaker 3:Well, normally with something like this, we'd have devil's advocate. So, for example, if you just said a deck of cards, then I would have held you to. You just said a deck of cards, then I would have held you to a trick with the deck of cards, but with the top change it's a top change. There's not really much more that we can say. I guess the only thing that I could ask is if anyone wanted to look into the top change. Is there a particular person that you would learn from or a place that you would go to for reference? I can't think where the top.
Speaker 1:Do you know what? It's one of those things. I think it was just mentioned in a video at some point that I'd have watched um and it was purely by going and doing it that I realized its power. Um, I know that, um, david Williamson, um has got some um great work on it, but I think lots of card magicians have uh, I don't know the key. The key to most card magic is is a soft touch, is is to, is to be relaxed. Um is to you know, um. But to be relaxed is to you know.
Speaker 1:But, to be honest, I'm of a school of thinking where card magic is concerned, a controversial school of thinking that the technique, while it has its place and it has its importance, the technique is utterly secondary to your ability to perform it, your ability to use tension, management and misdirection, et cetera. That's the bit that matters Knowing how people think and how movement works. I think that's the thing. There's an old saying from sort of the world of pickpocketing, which is tension draws attention. So a lot of the reason why magicians get caught doing things is that they non-consciously signal anxiety, they get tense, and that tension immediately pulls other people's focus. And again, this is just an evolutionary response, so it just is. So don't be surprised If you're nervous about doing the top change. Don't be surprised that somebody catches you doing the top change. You know most magic starts there. I would say that you've just got to fully get to grips with the thing that you're doing. And if you think about it like this, if you actually can do magic, if you're the actor playing the part of the magician, you wouldn't be nervous because you wouldn't be doing anything. Because if you were really magic and I could really make something vanish by thinking about it or clicking my fingers, that's not really a doing. I'm not going through the mechanics to make it vanish. That's the mechanics. Why would I be nervous?
Speaker 1:And I think you have to embody that with things like the top change. You know the technique is easy, the timing. I think that's something you just learn because you've. You've done it so often. You've been in that situation. I think it was Gary Jones, a mentor of mine, basically when I started out in magic, and a phenomenal, phenomenal magician and and if you've got a weak liver, do not, do not go and have a drink with that man. Gary used to say that you know, do exactly what I mentioned earlier, just top change. Top change whether you need to or not, just while you're holding a pack of cards. Just top change Right then. And there, top change when it doesn't matter, and you'll learn the timing. You'll learn it really quickly. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not a trick, but I think it's just such a valuable piece.
Speaker 3:It kind of sits on its own well, there's not many times we've had just a move on the podcast. So that brings us to a number four. So what's in your fourth spot?
Speaker 1:um, I do like a good psychological coin bent and personally, if I'm honest, it's not an endorsement of one is better than the other because it's the only one I've ever used. Dave Penn gave me one of the original prototype testers, if you like for Coinvex and, however many decades have gone by, I still have the original prototype and I still haven't glued any coins to it because I never bothered. I just used it as a. You know, it's like having a pair of pliers in my hand. Really, I just got on and did it, but I love the whole thing. I love the con, I love the whole thing. I love the coin bend idea. Uh, because with a signed coin bend like that, you, you have the opportunity to do all of the work before it's even started. And I quite like it when you can do all of the work before you've even begun, because now you can just focus on creating magic. And I think that's why I like the coin bend, because it is all about creating magic, unlike a lot of things which rely entirely on the magic button at the end, where you have to have that moment of reveal where everybody goes oh, that happened. Then. The coin bend gives you the opportunity to give somebody a real experience, a real-time experience, and again, you're now just playing in the territory of suggestion. So this really is the first one, technically on this list where I'm employing knowledge of hypnosis in creating a moment of suggestion for somebody, because and the same applies to lots of other things but and certainly something else later on on this list I can, with the right person and the right environment and when I say the right person I mean most people really. Let's assume somebody's willingness to engage I can create the moment where they get to feel it happen, they get to tell the story for themselves and they get the full experience of signing their name on a coin, holding it in their hand, being guided through an experience where the coin gets hotter, it begins to melt in their hand, it forms new shapes and then eventually solidifies into that everlasting shape and they get to open their hand and then eventually solidifies into that everlasting shape and they get to open their hand. And they've experienced magic. It's happened to them in real time and, with some playful tweaks of presentation, you can actually extend that sensation out beyond to a number of other people who experience it as well, and suddenly out of something that was over before it began. You've got 10 minutes of three or four people in that room around the primary person just having their worlds changed, completely and utterly changed. And because of the suggestion, you can do what you like with it.
Speaker 1:And I think the last time I performed it was a couple of days ago at a wedding, uh, and it was pre-wedding. Actually, it was for the bride and some brides and a bridesmaid as they were getting ready, and I used the coin bends to essentially create this, this, this resonance, this, this joy, power that was emanating from the coin in her hand that they'd all put a mark on, and she felt it all happening, it was real. And then, because she felt it, other people in the group started to bounce off that idea and join in with it mentally. And then, all of a sudden, this thing has got a life of its own and it's empowering and supercharging these people. And then the payoff at the end. And all of a sudden, this thing has got a life of its own and it's empowering and supercharging these people.
Speaker 1:And then the payoff at the end, when they saw it was actually bent. Now, that wasn't even icing on the cake, that was inevitable. Like this was the thing that they could now use to tell other people later, but it wasn't important now. They didn't need the proof that it that it was an hour bent coin, because the experience was way more proof than looking at it was ever going to be. Um. So, yeah, I think things like the coin bend, they're just, they're great avenues to to go right. I've now got some time to to really make this real, for somebody to take the time to elevate this beyond just a you know.
Speaker 3:Here's another quick trick that I've learned yeah, and I mean, one of the best like psychological projects that I ever saw was skin by ben l, which is a phenomenal sort of psychological approach to coin bend. It doesn't use a coin bend gimmick, um, in that particular version it uses a pre-bent coin and then it just relies on this really clever psychological process in which you almost excite their senses to feel certain things, um, and to experience certain phenomena, and that's just such a wonderful moment. I remember performing it for the first time, being very sceptical if it was going to work, and then when you see the reaction and they feel things moving down their arm, it's just a phenomenal routine, yeah, but then?
Speaker 1:Ben is irritatingly talented, isn't he?
Speaker 3:Well, coin bend rather. I was going to say coin vex, but coin bend as well. Psychological coin bend is a great one. In at number four and leads us very nicely into number five. So what's in your fifth position?
Speaker 1:uh, we're going to go in the opposite direction now. One of my all-time favorite pieces of magic and it still is it's crazy amounts of handcuffs. I originally learned it from Michael Marr's Book of Magic. I still do it in the way it's described there, which is so in my opinion it's the nicest routine. I saw a lot of magicians kind of doing the over-proving, so they'd be going backwards and forwards, over and over and over and over again.
Speaker 1:What I loved about this presentation is it has such a cleanliness to it. You start in the linked position and you pause the beat and it's three moves. You can't pull it through, you can't go over the fingers, but just here it melts through and it's very slow. It's very deliberate and you're not overdoing the proving. It's the setup does the move, and then everything else is just now, slow and deliberate. It's a beautiful three-phase, if you like, routine, with the idea of the first time they get to watch it from the front. The second time, you stand behind somebody and you bring your arms around in front of their face so they get to see your view of the effect. And then the third time, you put it onto somebody else's fingers, which nullifies the only real answer. They've got at this stage and you do the final move. I love it because it stands alone beautifully, but it's also great cover if you want to nick somebody's watch, so you know it's a winner.
Speaker 1:But it's one of those odd things that just seems to stand and I've seen lots and lots of rubber band magic. And don't get me wrong, from a magician's brain point of view, some of it is stunning and we get ourselves very excited about it. But in nearly 30 years of performing no, in fact, it is 30 years now I just realized it's 30 years of performing no, in fact, it is 30 years now. Just realise it's 30 years. In 30 years of performing for lay people primarily, crazy Man's Handcuffs is the one that will stand the test of time. These other things are good and they have their place and they will come and go, but in another 50 years time, magicians are still going to be doing crazy man's handcuffs because it's that good, it's timeless. So, yeah, that is. None of these, by the way, are in particular order, necessarily, but it's crazy. Man's handcuffs is right up there with one of my absolute favorite little moments of magic that really, really engages humans.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you're absolutely spot on and you have that sort of James Brown touch, I would say, where you're very good at combining not necessarily just methods but genres of methods, which not many magicians can do, and certainly not well in the same way that you do. You mentioned using crazy man's handcuffs to acquire a watch, so to speak, and that's what I sort of remember from your professional opportunist dvds as well, is that you almost have this clash of genres in your style of magic and a way of taking two completely different concepts and ideas and just marrying them together in this really unique, interesting way.
Speaker 1:So it's really nice to see that you're still sort of doing that with these, these routines to be honest, I think part of it is that I've never really seen the genre distinction in the same way. I think it's internally for magicians to categorize stuff. I see its point, I see its purpose. Outside of the magic community I think that there is a genre and the genre is magic or it's magical. That is the genre. And if genre is magic, it's magical. That is the genre. And if you're a close-up magician you can't do restaurant close-up for any length of time before somebody says to you, oh, I bet you're going to try and steal my watch. Why? Because magic and pickpocketing in the context of entertainment are synonymous with each other, and I think that hypnosis is as well. I think that all of these things form part of this world of the magical arts that is unknown to the vast majority of muggles out there. So, yeah, I mean I've got a favourite effect in the kind of tongue in cheek sense, and it was something I came up with years ago and I used to do it on stage end of first act and a sort of curtain call moment for later. And what I liked about it is that the effect was essentially three genres thrown together. So the effect, if you like, was a mentalism effect. It was somebody was a mentalism effect. It was somebody wrote something down in the audience and then at some point later I read their mind. There's the effect. It's a mentalism effect.
Speaker 1:The misdirection to allow the effect to happen was hypnosis. I would do this induction as they came up on stage. The method for how I did the effect was pickpocketing, because what the effect was was simply asking somebody to write something down on a piece of paper, stick the piece of paper in their pocket and I'll come back to you later, if I remember. And then later on, as the curtain call, I'd be like oh, hang on a minute, I forgot, we haven't done you have, we Up, you come. And as they came up on stage, I'd shake their hand, do an induction. Couldn't care less whether it did or didn't work. That wasn't the point. It was just misdirection. Because as I pulled them into me and went, sleep all the way down, deeper and deeper, that's right. All I was really doing was reaching my hand into their pocket, taking out the piece of paper, reading it and putting it back in again. And it was again.
Speaker 1:It was one of those things that I enjoyed it, because that was it. That's why I enjoyed it, because it was a mentalism plot with a pickpocketing, with a hypnosis misdirection and a pickpocketing method. That's what I liked about it. But it was also the moment where I realized that's the nonsense that magicians enter into. They were actually creating things to please each other more than we are creating things for or somebody else to watch, cause actually there were 10 other ways. I could have done the same effect easier and better for the audience. But what I wanted was I wanted something that tickled my, my, my ego, my fancy. Uh, I look back at that and go. I like it, it's funny. It's made me giggle still. But ultimately, who was that for? Because it damn well wasn't for the audience. What it was for, ultimately, was for me to tell other magicians hey, this is a thing that I do so that I could get an egotistical pat on the back from them. It turns out that's not as valuable when you're nearly 50 as it was when you're 25.
Speaker 2:Hey guys, harry here from Alakazam Magic, I hope you're enjoying the podcast. I'm just here to interrupt and tell you a little bit about the Alakazam Magic Convention. It has taken us 35 years to get to this date. However, may the 9th 2026 will be the very first Alakazam Magic Convention. Now I know you guys are super excited, maybe just as excited as we are. First of all, the venue is a 37-minute direct train from central London. The venue is then literally a 10-minute walk from the train station. There's hotels within a stone's throw, there's restaurants nearby and there's incredible food and drink on site. That's all without even getting into the magic side of things. We are going to have four incredible lecturers performing throughout the day, including one person who's going to be flying over to the very first UK lecture. We are buzzing to announce who those four are. Not only that, there'll be dealers on site and a place for you guys to jam and session and meet new friends.
Speaker 2:Where are the lectures going to be held? This is my personal favorite bit about the Alakazam convention. They're going to be happening in one of the cinema screens. That means fully tiered seating, comfy seats, a drink holder and there will be a close-up camera on the jumbo cinema screen that will be giving you close-ups of all the little nuances that you're going to need to see when the lecturers are performing. There will, of course, be a full gala show to end the evening off. You guys are not going to want to miss it. The great thing is as well on the Sunday, the day after, alakazam Magic Shop, which is a two-minute drive, will be open. So if you're heading down to the convention, why not stay overnight and come and visit our magic shop? Remember May the 9th 2026. Tickets on sale now at alakazamcouk. See you guys soon.
Speaker 3:Well, that's a great entry in at number five and brings us to number six. So what's in your sixth position?
Speaker 1:Sixth position is Doublecross, my handling specifically of Doublecross. Doublecross is a wonderful update of the Ashes on the Palm of the Hand plot and totally understand why every magician out there in close-up land went and bought it, because it's phenomenal. I also immediately disliked it because every other magician was doing it, but not that specifically, but that every magician was doing it exactly the same way, with no real sense of individuality or difference at all. Yeah, I liked it.
Speaker 1:It just felt a bit too straight line for me and I forgot about it for many, many years until I was reminded of a phenomenon, a human phenomenon, which it was ironically something I've always taught in pickpocketing um seminars and training, and that's that your, your nerve, your nervous system, sense of touch has an awful lot to do with where your attention is as well.
Speaker 1:In other words, you don't feel sensation on your body unless your attention is also sharing that space, which is why you can go and do some gardening, cut yourself, not know you've cut yourself, come back and sit down, notice a cut on your leg an hour later and now suddenly it starts to hurt and you think how did I not notice doing that when I did it? And the answer is because it wasn't important and you were busy, um, and it's the same thing as why you can't feel your underwear, but now I've drawn your attention to it, you now can. So that formed the basis of something which then utilised Aaron Alexander my second time of three, I will be mentioning him with something simple called tap and ask what it allows me to do with with double cross. Is it allows me to create a wonderful PK moment between two people where I don't appear to do anything? Essentially, I get one of them to touch the other on the back of the hand and you say you know you can feel that touch.
Speaker 1:Yes, I then get them to mind touching it again from like an inch higher, and they can still feel the touch. And then, very quickly, it happens that one person touches themselves on the hand and the other person feels it on there. And now you've got a PK system where every time they touch themselves, the other person feels it. And we then go, got a PK system where every time they touch themselves, the other person feels it. And we then go, I tell you what? Let's, let's go further. Uh, touch the touch the underside of your hand. Can you feel it under your hand? Yes, I can, uh. And then the final thing is why don't we do this? Then, if I give you a pen, uh, just draw a small cross on the palm of your hand very slowly, and and in the other person, you tell me whether you can feel it or not. And as they draw the cross, the other person is going I didn't feel it, um, uh. And. And then you've just got a lovely hook at the end of it, which is I say uh.
Speaker 1:I say to the person who, who's experiencing this, this phenomena, I say to them right now, everybody watching this thinks it's just your imagination, but you and I know differently, don't we? And I smile conspiratorially at them. And this, if that's usually the first moment where they, or the audience watching, suddenly go holy shit, are you saying there's an actual cross now on your hand? And then they then you get them to reveal it. I love it because it takes it miles away from the double cross plot. There's no, uh, there's no pen in play until the very end. Um, there's no pen in play until the very end. There is no memory of me ever going anywhere near the person who's holding the handout, and I've had at least three occasions to memory where somebody afterwards has said do you know what's really funny?
Speaker 1:Within the last couple of days, what's really funny? Within the last couple of days, a magician did something with a cross on my hand, but it was nothing like that. In other words, they couldn't draw the line between those two, they didn't go. That was the same thing that happened to me yesterday. They looked at it and went oh, what a coincidence. Somebody else did a bit of magic with the cross, but it was nothing like this. Um, yeah, and again, like a lot of the magic I do these days, I'm not really in the picture for it. I'm setting up this, this experience between two people, two strangers strangers ideally, and I quite like that. I quite like milking this human connection factor as well. So yeah, double cross is definitely in my sixth position.
Speaker 3:Wow, it really sounds like you've taken that in a completely different direction. I love the idea of getting the PK moments between the two people. I think that's really good, and when you mentioned about, you know the pen is not in play until much later in the routine. I also think that that's a really clever thing, because earlier on you sort of mentioned the Jal Miranda's Leviosa and you mentioned that there's sort of this run and gun moment of it's floated, now it's gone, and I feel the same somewhat when it comes to Doublecross. It's very much, let's just get to that moment, let's get to that moment, let's get to that moment. But that's what I think you've done really well with yours is you've really thought about that presentation and taken it in a completely different direction.
Speaker 1:I like trying to shift focus to the audience members more than to myself, if I can, particularly with pieces like that, because pieces like that resonate, because they feel real. You know it's an odd thing. Years ago I had the opportunity to spend a bit of social time with um steve short banner, check um. We were a group of us found ourselves on the island of sark together and I have a wonderful memory of going rock climbing with uh, uh, with banachek, uh and uh and um mark paul, um yeah, uh, but uh, one of the things that that steve was saying at the time was that pkfx.
Speaker 1:The problem is that magicians are too uh, too quick to get to the, the sort of the flashy bit at the end, the magic button, as we call it. There's just too much, and I think part of it is because we know it's not real. We worry that the only part of value in this is the bit at the end where it goes pop, yeah. And I think that a lot of magicians have a bit of a fear of waiting on that moment because they're worried that none of it is believable before that, and I think that's a mistake that they make, because it is certainly with moments like this, the willingness to invest at the early stage, especially when it doesn't appear to go well straight away. You know, when you say with any suggestion routine, you say you know in a moment you'll feel a tingle on the back of your hand and want you to focus and tell me when you feel that, and the person just looks at you and goes, no, I don't feel anything. When you feel that and the person just looks at you and go, no, I don't feel anything, the tendency to then panic and abort and jump straight to the magic button is huge. But it's a mistake because if you can just give that moment the time to breathe and know how to play gracefully in that space, if you give it that little extra beat in that moment when they do start to tap into something, it's so much more real for them, it's so much more experiential. But you have to get over that fear of it's got to be about the button at the end and it doesn't.
Speaker 1:And PK routines shouldn't be about the end point. Pk routines should be about what you're suggesting and that is you and I can create a connection where I can touch you from a distance or I can touch one person and you feel so connected to that person that you feel it too. That is the plot, surely. Yet it's the part of PK routines that most performers seem to stay away from, and I'm like, well, you know, isn't that the point? You know, somebody like Darren for sure would make a 10-minute piece out of sitting with the person and getting them in the right mental framework to be able to achieve this incredible moment of real connection and magic. Yeah, of course you would. Why? Because he understands that's the bit that makes it worthwhile.
Speaker 1:Now the magic button comes and it brings the house down, but without that emotional resonance and the reason for it at the start. What have you got? Oh, you put a cross on my hand when I wasn't looking. Is that what you did? Probably is, isn't it? Yeah, that's it, that's what you got, whereas I know that by the time I get to the reveal of the cross, nobody participating at any level is even remotely considering how it got there. Why? Because they know how it got there, because they damn well felt it. They had the buildup of that experience. So, when the cross comes onto their hands, there is no ambiguity in their thinking. I know when it happened because I felt it happen and I have all of the other bits of social proof that it must have been that way, because every time the other person touched themselves on the arm I felt it on mine. So therefore it all follows, and just having that bit of extra time at the beginning makes all the difference.
Speaker 3:Yep, absolutely great choice and leads us to the tail end of your eight. So we are on number seven. What's in your seventh spot?
Speaker 1:I couldn't not stick potter jam in there, could I? It has to be there. It is still my opener. It is still an effect that I probably do uh as much as, if not more than, any other effect. Uh out there, um, yeah, I've loved it since day one. Um, uh, I've tinkered with it a little bit here and there, but not really. It's still pretty much the same basic effect.
Speaker 1:The only additions that I have is I change the uh, the final load, now and again for special occasions, but only if it comedically works. So, for example, um, uh, at easter I will quite often uh, switch it for a warm mince pie. Um, just because it's got, it's a, it's a, it's a stupid thing, it's a silly shape and it has no right to be appearing at the end of a coin trick. That's why it's funny. And the fact that it's Easter, you just get that little extra, hey, you know whatever. So, yeah, things like that I play around with just sort of you know little seasonal treats. Occasionally I've also used people's watches. If I've stolen a watch, I've done the 11p trick and instead of pot of jam, I drop the watch out into their hand. That's kind of a nice fun ending, but 99% of the time it's a little miniature pot of jam.
Speaker 1:How could you not love them? And I'm going to say this one last time, because I'm fed up of saying this Any magician listening to this, who wants to know A what flavor jam it should? Because I'm fed up of saying this Any magician listening to this who wants to know A what flavor jam it should be? You need to sort your life out with these questions. You really do. What sort of jam does it need to be? But, more importantly, people keep saying to me where do you buy the jam from? And the answer is you don't buy the jam. You do a gig at a hotel and they give you the jam for free because it's just there for breakfast. In 20-odd years I've never bought a little miniature pot of jam. Every time I go to a hotel, I just say do you use our little jam pots? Yes, we do. Can I pinch a couple? Yeah, sure, help yourself, thank you.
Speaker 3:Done. Yeah, I would have to say that I think pot of jam was the trick that I got to know your material from. I think it's one of the ones that, like you just said, pretty much everyone has come across it. Now, if you haven't come across it, the idea is that a coin continuously jumps back to your hand and then, at the very end, when they're anticipating a certain coin being in there, there is a pot of jam in your hand, which just sounds bizarre. But it's so shocking and so surprising. Now I don't really have many questions about it. The main question I have is what jam do you use?
Speaker 1:strawberry jam. It doesn't work with any other. It has to be. It has to be strawberry jam, it has to be yeah there you go, great.
Speaker 3:So go grab yourself a pot of strawberry jam and you'll be doing it in no time. Now that leads us to our very last one. So, just going back over your list, before we go into your final trick, we had push card under box, top change, psychological coin bend or coin vex, crazy man's handcuffs, double cross but your version of it and pot of jam, a very nice eclectic mix, all kind of psychological in some way, because card under box, obviously you have the misdirection. Top change is sort of a misdirection move. Coin vex is very psychological. Crazy man's handcuffs you mentioned mixing that with maybe a watch deal or something like that, but you really slow it down. Double cross, you mentioned you have this sort of PK thing, and pot of jam. Jam, again, is all about attention. So it does seem to be that we have a very psychological list, um, going forward. So if you are playing james brown bingo, think about where it's gonna go, because you've got four seconds to work out what this is gonna be. So, james, what did you put in your final spot?
Speaker 1:well, it might be a I don't know, it might be a surprise, it might not be but in James, what did you put in your final spot? I don't know, it might be a surprise, it might not be, but in my final slot I've put coins across routine, basically. I've seen them so many times and about two years ago I finally bought a gravity coin I'll just say gravity coin, just for the sake of it. You magicians know what I'm talking about and I bought a really cheap 50p one. And again a couple of magicians said to me oh well, you know, you should have invested in this, that and the other. And I was like no, I just want it to. I want it to look like what it is, which is some tassie old coins that I've grabbed from the central compartment of the car as I've left the house. Do you know what I mean? I don't want things to look like they're things. Ideally, I want it to look normal, but I like the routine that I've come up with for it. Nothing groundbreaking, it is just the classic. You know, I've got four coins in my hand. I close my hand, I open my hand there's now three coins and then one of them jumps across into somebody else's hand, for example. But it's just, yeah, I'm really pleased with what I've done with it. Again, it's very, very, very, very simple. It just it does what it says on the tin. It has a little bit of levity thrown in for good measure, uh, but ultimately, ultimately it just feels as fair as I can make it feel that you know, uh, the last, you know the the.
Speaker 1:The first, the first phase kind of almost feeds into the thing that they tend to suggest is what's happening. The second phase sort of almost leans more into that where they actually think oh, I think I saw, I think I think I've got it now, um. And then the third phase is into somebody else's hand, and now they've got nothing. They're like, okay, so, and but again, it's, it's designed, because if I'm doing it to a group, I know that somebody else who hasn't been involved, who's watching, will now. Go well, the only thing we've got left is that you must be in on this. Go well, the only thing we've got left is that you must be in on this. And then the final phase. I have a very open display, uh, of three coins on on my hand, uh, which are then tipped into the person's hand and they hold on to them, uh, and it feels, it just feels so fair, um, and then the final coin vanishes and appears in their hand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just a nice, simple, classic bit of coin magic and, like all the sort of the coin magic that I like, it does its best to avoid anything that looks coin magic-y. I'm trying to think of a. There's a weird thing in the world of coin magic where, if you imagine a Venn diagram between magic and arthritis, coin magic fits somewhere in the middle where those two cross over. So there's a lot of sort of what I call arthritic hand syndrome in coin magic, where people display an empty hand in a most bizarre I'm doing a claw impression from a pterodactyl thing and I've always found that really peculiar, and I'm aware that maybe lay people don't notice it at all, but I'm also aware that maybe they do, or maybe they're at least aware that there's something odd. There's a weirdness to the way your hands are moving, the way you're gesturing. It doesn't feel, it just doesn't feel normal. And I wanted a coins across routine that was slow, deliberate. People could see exactly what was going on. There was no moves as such, um, and no awkward displays.
Speaker 3:Um, so yeah, a very simple coins across with an embarrassingly cheap uh gaff what I do really like about that is that you've got three coin tricks in your set. So you've obviously got your coin bend, you've got pot of jam and you've now got your Coins Across, but each of those feel so distinctly different to one another. I do think that you could do all of those in a set and I think that they would all feel completely unique to an audience. They would not feel like the same kind of trick at all.
Speaker 1:I think that a lot of the time, I mean the Co coins across is, uh, you know, has, um, has misdirection built in, and but it's, it's got, there's. There's a lot of time misdirection built in and I get to do the thing that I quite often enjoy doing um, uh, and that is uh, and that is what a lot of magicians think is dangerous territory. I like I like handing gimmicks out for people to hold on to. I like I like doing stuff that runs that risk of being caught, because I know that actually there isn't really a risk of being caught. Thinking there's a risk is the risk. Knowing that actually that's not really how attention works allows you to play in this wonderful space where you can just, I don't know, you know, I don't I said this years ago, like it was you know what's the where's the best place to hide the gimmick? And the answer is, oh, it's simple, it's in the hands of a spectator and so it's just the best place. If you place, if you've got something that you like, I fucking don't want anybody to have a look at this. This is going to kill me if somebody sees this Best place to hide it, if you need to, is give it to somebody, but give it to somebody in the right way, in the right frame, knowing that because it's in that person's hands, nobody else is going to be interested any longer, because it can't be, it can't be a value to you. How could it be? You know, um, and I've done it with lots of things Um, I did it.
Speaker 1:You know, I, I I bought Dave Bonsall's um, uh, ceramic chop cup years ago and, uh, the ceramic chop cup years ago. And the amount of time that, if somebody said you know, or can I have a look at this, I bet it's got something to do with that, and I would just, I would throw it to them. It was, it's, it's breakable. But I would just be like, yeah, there you go, it's just a cup. I said, in fact, particularly if I was at somebody else's house, I'd say, in fact, if there's any chance for coffee, that would be really lovely. And they'd be like, oh, sure, of course, and these gimmicks were well enough sealed that you could easily put hot water into them without damaging the glue in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, what better way, what better way of just killing any notion that there could be anything else going on the um, uh, the glue in there. Um, yeah, and again, what better way, what better way of just killing any notion that there could be anything else going on by just going oh, you want my making me a coffee, would you? Nobody's, nobody's looking at that any longer, cause it can't be anything other than what it is the coffee cup. Yeah, um, yeah. So I, I, I again, I like, I like the coins across, because there is that psychological element that I'm doing quite a lot of sort of dodgy, dodgy stuff right under their nose and getting them to be accomplices without really knowing that that's what they're doing.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, uh, there is a point in the routine where one person hands the coins to somebody else. So it's a great moment where, because they're convinced that they've got three coins and they hand them off to somebody else, there's no possibility that there's anything other than three coins in the play, because how on earth would you risk getting one person to pass them to somebody else? And the answer is it's actually very straightforward People don't check, not in the way that we expect them to. And again, if I was looking and watching the coins being handed from one person to the other, yes, they'd check. The reason they don't check is because it's an instruction I give, and then I immediately turn my back with a degree of disdain yeah, so there we go anyway great.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a great way to close out your list. So we started with push card on a box top. Change psychological coin bend or coin vex, crazy man's handcuffs, double cross, pot of jam and coins across. Now we've given you eight tricks, but we've only allowed you to have one each of the following. So, james, I want you to imagine that you're gonna dig a big sandy hole and you're gonna put something from our industry inside and bury it to be gone forever. What is your banishment?
Speaker 1:um, I would like to banish the magician's ego and specifically and it's a bit ripe and political at the moment with what's going on in our community but particularly the ego over the sort of importance of my trick, yeah, this, this idea of ownership and invention, and, uh, and just the arrogance that goes with with all of the above, but particularly how that translates over to the audience. Um, I'm, I'm all for you, I'm all for you wearing a character. So you're advertising the fact that I'm a character. Yeah, you're standing on a stage with makeup and lights and everything. You're a character. Of course you're a character. We all know that. We've bought into this through the medium of theater.
Speaker 1:What I'm less less okay with is the magician's ego that allows them to think that they actually have power, that they actually have something over the people around them, whether that be other magicians or members of the public. It's that sense of, you know, power and control gained from something which shouldn't be about power and control. It should be about joy and wonder, and I really would like to see an end to to that behavior. And I think, by the way, partly that behavior is arguably why we also have the other part of that, which I really dislike because I'm sorry, I'm gonna take my time to throw a few things in this hole. It's all connected but it should all go in there, um, and that's that's uh. It's the cynical approach to social media. Uh, within the magic world, um, that, a, there's a huge amount of exposure, and I'm not just talking about the, those accounts that are just set up to expose magic, which you know I'm not a great fan of, but more importantly, it's the lack of quality control now, um, uh, in in the content that magicians are putting out with, with glaringly obvious reveals going on, uh, and I'm worried that there's a cynicism involved in that, where these, these magicians whose desire for fame and fortune and power and notoriety, understand that bad videos, exposure videos, careless videos, um, uh, caught controversy in the comment section and that's how they make money. And I'm just worried a little bit that what we do is diluted by this enormously.
Speaker 1:But again, it feeds into this thing that I think is quite toxic in the world of magic. And that is our control. I'm the king of my tiny little pond and I've allowed myself to believe that my safe is full of gold. And you know the old Steinmeier comment magicians guard an empty safe. I think the problem is a lot of magicians think their safe is full of gold and it's not. It's empty. We're pretending to do these things. We're not really doing these things.
Speaker 1:I can't really read your mind. I don't really have power over the elements around me, and whilst I'm happy for you to celebrate in what we do together to be entertaining, I think it's a very dangerous pathway to walk down, where we start allowing ourselves to buy into this idea that somehow we are worthy of praise in a more kind of I'm a god sort of way. And I think there are people that do this, some to more degrees than others. But there is definite weird manipulation that goes on in almost a cult likey way in certain darker areas of the magic community.
Speaker 1:Go to a magic convention and see people walking around with their entourage following them, worshipping at the hem of their garment, and I can't help but just go. Am I the only person that goes? But you do know that. Worshipping at the hem of their garment, and I can't help but just go. Am I the only person that goes? But you do know that none of this is real, don't you Like? Have you just been told for many years by muggles, that you're the best magician I've ever seen. Oh my God, you're incredible and you've believed that, haven't you? That I find very worrying and very sad, and I do think we should leave that buried somewhere on a desert island.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, that's going to be a very, very big sandy hole on your island. But agreed, you know, magician's Ego, I think at this point in the Banishment series, is the leading thing that we have at the moment. And you know, exposure online and social media, I think, is very sad. I think that it's becoming more prevalent, but in this world of chat GPT, it's unfortunately even more accessible to audiences now, and I know a lot of friends of mine have commented that people have googled stuff at their gigs as well, as I have had as well, and of course, chat GPT just throws it out this is also why it's it's good to realize that the, uh, the environment is changing with AI and it will change.
Speaker 1:But the one thing that AI cannot do is it can't make up for human connection. And, um, magic can be, if we want it to be, an incredibly non-deceptive mega placebo. And it's the non-deceptive part. I think we are running into a point where we can say look, you can Google this, you can find out how this works. But it's not really the how it works that matters, it's, it's the, it's the vehicle that this becomes to allow you and I, or you and the group of us, to to create an experience together. The fact that we know it's a trick is neither here nor there, but through this medium we get to experience something that is real and that's human imagination and human connection. And again, it's another reason why I think that the sort of going down the rabbit hole in social media, as most magicians now coming into the art form seem to want to do, is going to be problematic in three to five years time.
Speaker 1:My eldest son works in next gen. Ai is, you know, one of these sort of computer boffins. And and ben says to me, he says you do realize that within within a year he says within a year content creation will not be about content creation. Content creation will be about writing the best prompt. That's what it'll be. It'll be who can write the best prompt, who's already got a following and who can write the best prompt?
Speaker 1:Because within a year, 18 months, tops people aren't going to be recording themselves doing stuff because there's no bloody point. Why bother doing that when the, when ai can generate something quicker, faster, better than you can, and within 18 months time, it could be you. You could host your own web series and, and all you've done is is typed a mid, a medium length prompt into an AI engine at the top end, and now you sit back for six months as it generates your face, your voice, doing whatever content you want. That's the reality of where we're heading. So at this point, I would say that the future of magic actually needs to loop back to where it started, and that is human to human connectivity. How do we create wonder and astonishment? Uh, and with the, you know once, once we're so deep into a and a into ai generated content, how much more desperate our audience is going to be for the real thing. Yeah, I think it's worth investing in people again.
Speaker 3:I mean, god knows, we're going to need them at some point. Well, on that dystopian message, let's move into your book.
Speaker 1:So what did?
Speaker 3:you put in your book position into your book.
Speaker 1:So what did you put in your book position? So, book position is this book, which I'm holding up to an audience who can't see it, but it says Reality as an Art by Aaron Alexander. It is by far and away my favourite book. Yeah, it's brilliant, and if you can get hold of it, good luck if you can. But if you can get hold of it, uh, I think it's. It's wonderful. It speaks to, speaks to what magic should be.
Speaker 1:Uh, it's not written by a magician, even though it contains some of the most magical stuff in there and lots of effects. But I think it's a phenomenally well-written book and it's the sort of thing that I go back to again and again and again. You know you don't really learn more tricks. It's not like, oh, I missed that one and I read it first. It's the details, it's the little connections, it's the, it's the thought experiments that it kicks off in your head. That might take you another five years before, all of a sudden, one day you go oh, my goodness me. Yes, I remember now, I remember I read that and it didn't make sense, but now it makes sense. Um, yeah, it should be on the reading list for every magician in my opinion.
Speaker 3:And I hope that you are getting some of Aaron's sales from this podcast, because we've mentioned him quite a few times.
Speaker 1:I'll be honest. I'll be honest. The time I have spent with Aaron over the last goodness knows like nearly 10 years probably, or slightly less than that, but you know, certainly, for the last five years, the time I've spent with him, yeah, I have gained so much more, so much more from this friendship than I could pay back like that. So, yeah, I'm happy to shout his name from the rooftops now and again. Yeah, just a really good human being.
Speaker 3:Amazing. Well, that's a good one for us all to try and seek out Reality as an Art by Aaron Alexander. Now that leads us to your final thing, which is your non-magic item that you use for magic. What did you go for?
Speaker 1:I struggled with this one. I struggled with this one because I was thinking, well, how do you define that? Because you could go. Well, a pack of cards is a non-magic item technically, um. So I wasn't really sure how to go about this one. Uh, I mean, I, I would struggle without a pack of cards, to be honest, just because you know, I like the card tricks. Card tricks can be phenomenally good, uh, uh, except, by the way, and I'm going to be controversial here except for any card at any number outside of the Magic community is nowhere near as exciting as we think. It is. Just to be clear. Sorry, just getting that little comment out, but lots of card tricks are absolutely fantastic and loved by laypeople. I would say the thing that I couldn't do without that I use more than anything else. That is a non-magic item per se.
Speaker 1:Uh, is the mind of whoever it is I'm performing for and that really is my best answer and that's the thing that I can't do without, because I think it's the thing that none of us can do without, because magic does not exist unless there is a mind that is experiencing it, and that mind is experiencing it as in in and of itself. That is where the magic is happening, inside the mind of the person watching. Uh, and it's the. It's the best tool to play with, it's the best tool to understand. You know, if you, if you want to, if you want to, if you want to do something worthwhile in your magic, then it's not necessarily sorry, alex, it's not necessarily buying another magic trick. It's actually starting to understand. Why does this work, not just how does the trick work, but why. Why does the magic work? What is it about human experience that sends us to these places? How can the brain miss details so easily? How can it hallucinate so readily? How can you alter somebody's memory and timeline of an event? These are the questions. How do I engage as a human being? I think this is a big one.
Speaker 1:I remember years ago, no, britain, uh, gave a talk, um, uh, and. And a huge part of the talk was essentially saying to magicians look, you know, if you can't, if you can't engage with other humans for two minutes without pulling a pack of cards out, maybe magic magic's not for you. You know, there's that thing. Where is magic a vehicle for better human connection, or is it a shield to stop human connection? And I think that for some people, magic can be a shield. It's an instead of, instead of actually just bringing myself to this moment, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hide behind this facade, uh, because I can control it to some degree.
Speaker 1:But real magic happens when you step over the edge. Real magic happens where you know we dance in the unknown, um, and at that point we are talking exclusively about how to understand human nature, human beings. We all know, we all know that the most magical experiences of our life were not at the end of a card trick. The real magical experiences of our life came when we were laughing uncontrollably with our friends, where we you know, we, we nearly died on a holiday and we're telling the story back a year later over a drink. Like these are the moments where, where we feel something special has happened, we feel connected to ourselves, to each other, to the place that we're at, and magic as an art form absolutely is tapping into all of those senses. At least it should be and it can be.
Speaker 1:And don't get me wrong the simple, you know sponge ball vanish from my hand, appear in your hand. It still taps into what it means for our brains to create reality. It is still real, experiential magic for people, as long as we understand that the magic trick is not the trick. The magic trick is the experience. So yeah, that's where I end up. I could survive without the pack of cards, because the pack of cards in and of itself doesn't do anything. I could survive without the coins. What I can't survive without is another human being to share what we create together amazing.
Speaker 3:Well, the minds of the spectator are on your island. So, back over your list, we had, um, we had push card on a box top change coin vexed uh, crazy man's handcuffs. Double cross pot of jam coins across. Your banishment is magicians, egos and exposure and quality of magic on social media. Your book is reality as an art by aaron alexander and your item was the mind of the spectator. What a great list, james. Now, if people want to find out more about you and they want to find out where to purchase the pot of jam that you use, uh, where can they go?
Speaker 1:um, I am very easy to find on social media, so at james brown magician, on instagram and facebooky, um, uh, yeah, so, basically, james brown magician is where you can find me. Uh, if you are interested in some of the routines that I've mentioned, in particular my handling of Double Cross and some other bits and pieces, I've got a book called Building Worlds which is available through Amazon or direct from me If you drop me a message and we can sort that out. If you, for some bizarre reason, want a signed copy, and we can sort that out. If you, for some bizarre reason, want a signed copy, the thickness of the book, I would like to point out, is absolutely ideal for propping up an aggressively wonky table, but otherwise, yeah, I think there's nine effects, four or five essays in there about all sorts of bits and pieces. But, yeah, I've enjoyed writing it and some people seem to quite like it. So if you want to know about the double cross routine, it's cunningly hidden in there. So, yeah, building Worlds available on Amazon or from me directly.
Speaker 3:Amazing, and do you lecture?
Speaker 1:James, I do, I, I do. I actually have uh. Building worlds was was started out as as lecture notes and it grew into a book, so I do have the building worlds lecture which is available to magic clubs, um, and I've I've just got to be slightly more uh uh marketing minded to make sure people know. So I I'm rubbish at this kind of crap. Basically, I'm available to lecture Come I'm getting married next year. I need the money.
Speaker 3:Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time. James, do go check out Building Worlds. Do go check out the lecture as well. Obviously, check out James's products as well. I'm sure that you can still find professional opportunists somewhere. The material still stands up. Of course, we do actually have James as a creator on unlimited as well, so you can go there, find his bio in the creator section and then, of course, any effects underneath are there for you to go check out as well. Go check out the Building Worlds book as well. I've heard really good things about the content in there and of course, go check out Aaron Alexander, because James really sold that to me as well. Of course, we're going to be back next week with another episode, but for now, have a great week.
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