Desert Island Tricks
Each week we invite one of the biggest guests in the world of magic to maroon themselves on a desert island. They are allowed to take with them 8 tricks, 1 book, 1 banishment and 1 non magic item that they use for magic! We discuss their 'can't live without' lists and why those items were chosen.
Episodes are uploaded every Friday and are available via all Podcast service providers!
To find out more about the team behind Desert Island Tricks, please visit: www.alakazam.co.uk
Desert Island Tricks
Christopher Taylor
What happens when the universe sends you a sign? For Christopher Taylor, it came in the form of a prisoner's profound question and a late-night phone call from David Copperfield on the very same day his wife encouraged him to pursue magic full-time.
In this captivating episode, Christopher shares his remarkable journey from prison guard to classroom teacher to pioneering creator of electronic mentalism. As one of the first innovators in this field, his products like Equinox, Real Ghost, and Death Toll have revolutionised how performers approach classic effects by creating versions that look "as if they could be done for real."
Christopher's approach to magic transcends mere methodology. A skilled storyteller, he explains how narrative transforms tricks into meaningful experiences, emphasising that a well-told story must stand on its own merits before magic is introduced. His philosophy that "the story is what makes the audience hungry" offers a masterclass in creating context that elevates magical moments.
Perhaps most thought-provoking is Christopher's perspective on magic itself. He challenges the notion that "there's no such thing as magic," arguing instead that magic is as real as comedy or tragedy, it simply requires a particular viewpoint. The synchronicities in his own life, like David Copperfield calling at the perfect moment, reveal the magical structures that exist if we're willing to see them.
Whether you're a creator, performer, or simply fascinated by the psychology behind powerful experiences, Christopher's insights into electronic mentalism, storytelling technique, and the philosophy of impossible moments will transform how you think about the art of astonishment.
Christopher’s Desert Island Tricks:
- Equinox
- PK Touch / Real Ghost
- Taylor Index Decoding System
- The Prisoner
- Overkill
- Card Under Table
- Trilogy
- Scrying Out Loud
Banishment. The idea that there is no such thing as magic
Book. Storytelling: Process and Practice
Item. Keys
Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
And before I became a classroom teacher, I had a job. I didn't suit me quite as well. I was a prison guard, and when the economy began to pick up I thought, ok, maybe it's time to move on. But you know the old story I'd met. The girl was talking about getting married. I'm saving money, I'm stuck here forever.
Speaker 1:And that was on my mind the day I was escorting some prisoners to the library and, out of the blue, one of them opens his book and he says you know, boss, these books are so unrealistic. Now, why would you say that? And I swear that this actually happened. He said well, all of the characters in these books, they all seem to have such control over their lives. Think about it, boss. If you had control over your life, would you be in this shithole Now. I laughed, along with everyone else, you know. But in my head I'm thinking OK, universe, I'm listening, I'm listening. And within a couple of months I quit and I went back to school. I became a classroom teacher. But here's the thing when that door slammed behind me for the last time, what a sense of freedom. It felt magical.
Speaker 3:Hello and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks. Today we are going overseas. Now it's very, very early in the morning for today's guest, which is very kind of them to come along, and I'm very, very excited because today's guest is a prolific inventor and creator of magic and arguably he was one of the first people innovating electronic well, good, electronic mentalism and props, and I was just saying to him I've actually got one of his props directly next to me now. He is from canada and, like I said, he is a performer, an inventor and also a lecturer. Lots of people talk about how interesting his lecture lectures are and, of course, his products like equinox, eclipse, real ghost, t3 and the product that I have next to me, which is Death Toll, which is a very cool spirit bell. All of these things are absolutely incredible props and I know that his list is going to be truly interesting, so I cannot wait to hear from him.
Speaker 3:Of course, today's guest is the wonderful Christopher Taylor. Hello, christopher, hello Jamie, pleasure to be here, and you were just saying you've missed out on the morning walk with the dogs. To be here with us as well, yeah, well, it's great to finally have you here and to you know, talk about some of the things because, like I say, you were one of the first innovators of high-end, well-produced electronic products.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had no intention of that. It's just I was once asked if actually I've been asked several times at conferences and things like that if I'm an engineer and I am not, and things like that if I'm an engineer and I am not the way I explained it was, I'm a magician and mentalist who dabbles in engineering, not an engineer that dabbles in magic, and I'm sure you can appreciate the difference.
Speaker 3:So, if this is your first time listening to the podcast, the idea is we're about to maroon christopher on his very own magical island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks banish one item, take one book and one non-magic item that he uses for magic particulars. Who's there? What's there? All that good stuff we do not mind. It's in christopher's own imagination. So, with that being said, christopher, what is in your first position, actually?
Speaker 1:it's Peter Nardi's fault that I actually got started in this. I met Peter at one of the first or second Mindvention in Las Vegas, which is a conference for mentalists, and he and I kind of hit it off. I was really impressed with his company and so I picked up a copy of Max Maven's Video Mind series, and on that was an effect called Karatsuke. And that's the first, actually the first on my list is Karatsuke, which became an instant classic when it was released. Briefly, there's a bag and there's five stones in the bag and one is a different color, like four whites and a black, and then the bag is passed around the audience and the audience chooses one. They don't know what color they have, so therefore no one could know what color they have. They sneak a peek and then the mentalists reads their minds and tells them what color stone they're holding. And I just loved it, absolutely loved it. But I thought what would it look like if I could do that for real? And it would change things. I wouldn't have to touch the bag, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have to hand it around myself. And so I came up with a way of doing that, and that I called Equinox and I called Peter in in England and asked him about what he thought about Karatsuke, and he said that he had just had a customer in the store, in his wonderful shop, saying that he wanted that this customer wanted to be able to do Karatsuke without touching the bag, without touching the stones, and there to be no ambiguity in his mind as to who had the, the odd colored stone. And Peter had just told this fellow that it can't be done. And but that's exactly what I was calling Peter to say that I had just found a way to to do exactly that. And so we launched. Equinox was kind of a joint venture between me and Peter, and it just took off Now.
Speaker 1:At the time I was a full-time classroom teacher, classroom teacher, and so I was, you know. So I was performing, I was creating, coming up with ideas and teaching full time. And I was just frigging, exhausted, absolutely exhausted. And one day my wife, bless her soul, I'm sitting exhausted at a breakfast table and she says you know, if you wanted to ever leave teaching and do this magic stuff full time, then she'd support me. And so I said, wow, I married the right girl.
Speaker 1:And in any case, a bit of real magic happened, because that very night, I'm getting ready for bed, telephone rang. And it's because that very night, um, I'm sitting, I'm getting ready for bed, telephone rang and it's david copperfield uh calling. And uh, he says, christopher, um, equinox is brilliant, um, can you make me a couple that work a little differently? Yes, how much. Uh, yeah, yeah, okay, and my wife, when I hung up my wife, that wasn't who I think it is I said yeah, that was, that was Mr Copperfield. She said the universe has spoken.
Speaker 1:And so that, following school year, I left teaching and my, my, my business just took off because I was able to put a lot of my creativity into the business rather than dividing it. But that's, and that's why I love Kurt Sukay. I've created several versions of Equinox, but that was the first, and it, as you've already mentioned, the E word electronics. So, um, uh, yeah, it was, as far as I know, the first application of that to uh, not to, not not to mentalism and magic, but to that particular premise. And it just seemed like common sense to me that that would be the easiest way to go. And of course there are all sorts of versions of it, but it's still, if I were banished to an island where I could only perform eight effects, that would definitely be one.
Speaker 3:Amazing, wow, what an amazing journey to get there. So was Equinox your first release in the electronic field yes entirely. Yeah, yeah, what a great story, and I'm sure Peter will enjoy listening to that story back.
Speaker 1:I owe Peter a huge debt. Yeah, he taught me the business and you'll probably be listening to this, peter, so a special thank you, to you, amazing, great.
Speaker 3:Well, let's find out where you went with number two. So what's in your second position?
Speaker 1:Well, every time I mention this effect, I like to preface it by saying all hail Banachek. Because my second effect would be PK Touch. And once again I saw PK Touch and just absolutely fell in love with it, with the idea you have two participants, you ask them to become aware of any sensations they may experience and you ask them to close their eyes and you openly touch one person, and the other person indicates that they felt the touch too. And once again I thought what would that look like if I could do it for real? Well, I'd have two people on stage. I'd sit them down on opposite ends of the stage, ask them to close their eyes and to when they felt a touch. The very moment they felt a touch, they are to stand up and open their eyes so that in the audience's mind there is no ambiguity as to when the effect happened. And so then I would walk over and I would tap one person on the shoulder, and on the other side of the stage, the two participants would stand up simultaneously and the audience gasps. They don't applaud, they gasp. And that's what I wanted and that's what I came up with the first. As far as I know it's, it was the first hands off version of Kuretsuke created and the product was called Real Ghost. Created and the product was called Real Ghost.
Speaker 1:And the first time I performed with it, using my prototype, was at a mind-venging convention 125 mentalists in the audience and I asked two friends to come up on stage. I said you know, friendship develops. So you know, you can develop a wonderful connection between two people through friendship. Let's see how far, how close, you two are. So you know, close your eyes when you feel a touch, stand up. So I tapped one fellow on the shoulder. They both stood up at the same time and, uh I I had expected at least a smattering of applause, but you could have heard a pin drop, except for the sound of the gears in 125 mentalists, brain turning thing. How the hell did he just do that? So I figured I had something there and went ahead and designed and released that. Once again, alec Azam helped me immeasurably through that. And yeah, that was, of all the toys I have created, that's my favorite and I would really miss it if I couldn't perform that effect.
Speaker 3:Well, everyone knows how much I love PK Touch and Touches and we've spoken about it on the podcast before.
Speaker 3:this idea of being able to see or going back in time and to be in the room when that trick happens first time Now being in the room when Banaszczak first performed PK Touches would have been mind blowing. But then what I love about that is as soon as people get to understand what's sort of going on with that, then they see your version and they get to relive that WTF moment in that room when you performed your version yeah, um, it was.
Speaker 1:It was a very memorable moment, uh, and, and it speaks to um, like there are also, you know, there have been um uh, other um uh versions, um, not using the same method as mine, but more mechanical versions. It's interesting how people's mindsets get fixed, because Banachek's original version included more than one touch, and so the effect was it was, in effect, repeated, the effect was repeated, in effect, repeated, the effect was repeated. Now, if, for anyone who has read 13 requirements for performance of miracle and the author will come to me shortly, and it is that the most important thing in that essay was that a miracle is never, never repeated, because every time you repeat it it dilutes the effect. The most astounding application of my method that I've seen used was by a mentalist in Europe.
Speaker 1:Danny Blue is his name and I forget whether he was in Budapest. I think he was in Budapest. He got himself a TV special, mentalism special, and either that or it was Prague. I'm sorry I forget, but he had twins, twin girls sitting on opposite sides of the street on rooftops, or one girl was seated all by herself on a rooftop across the street and the building was not quite as high as the one, her sister, was standing with Danny and both girls were in shock and the girl had been given the instruction when you feel a touch, please stand up. And that was the only instruction she'd been given. And then so he touched one girl and across the street the other girl stood up at that very moment.
Speaker 1:I mean, you do not then yell across the street, sit down, we'll try again, or what did you feel? No, there is nothing. There was no ambiguity in the minds of the audience that a frigging miracle just happened, just happened. So that is, in my mind, how to structure a PK touch effect so that it is bang, it happens. Everybody can see what happens. The shape of magic is absolutely clear to everyone in the audience and what they have just seen. That's why I go, for I wanted to go for a gasp, not laughs or how's he doing that which is because I've seen people use now methods that can achieve that effect I just described. But and I suspect very cruelly of me, I suspect that, well, these people have just spent a couple of thousand dollars on this method and they're darn well going to get as much out of it as they can. So they repeat the effect, but in my mind, that dilutes the impact.
Speaker 3:Well, I think what's really interesting as well about the version that you said about the rooftop is the parameters with which your version allows things to happen. So the idea that they were on, you know, not just opposite ends of a room, they're on completely different sides of a road, on top of a building it's the impossibility just becomes more and more substantial. So you only need that one time in order to create that impact.
Speaker 1:I agree, yeah, absolutely. And in a um, uh in in a theater show, um, uh, well, that's that's. I usually use that effect to close my theater shows, um, when, um, when I do them um, uh, although I I I tend more nowadays, for I have a regular close-up show that a friend of mine and I stage and I'm loving that, and that particular effect isn't included because it just doesn't suit. The venue should mention that Geist and a number of my other products are actually being manufactured by other people, very select people, who I considered master craftsmen, and they acquired the rights to some of my products. You mentioned the bell which is called death toll and that is available from Andreas Sebring in metal writing in in Sweden, and he is. He makes them at least as good as well as I did and you can acquire them there. And Geist is available from Arcane Relics and so that that version of pk touch is still still available amazing.
Speaker 3:Well, now we all know where to go. Uh, but let's go on to number three. So what's in your third spot?
Speaker 1:I would take a little, a little item that sits in your pocket and enables many, many, many, a huge variety of things to be performed from your pocket, and it enables you to index things and the usual type of effect performed with this little I'll call it a gadget, although there's no moving parts to it, of course would be. An example would be you have a participant from the audience name a playing card just off the top of their head, oh, and the performer has put a paper clip with something folded in it, or an envelope or a box on the table, and then the participant names their card, the card that they are thinking of, or perhaps they name their zodiac sign, and the box is opened, or the piece of paper is removed from the paperclip or the envelope and is opened up and, lo and behold, the name of the exact playing card is written on that piece of paper and it's been sitting out there in the open all this time. But I, once again, I looked at, I loved that effect, just just to be able to weave a story in which they come across a playing card. And what is that playing card? Is it red, is it black, et cetera, et cetera. And then, when the piece of paper is opened and sometimes they, sometimes you can ask the participant to pick up the paper clip and remove the paper from it and open it themselves and there is the name of the card printed, along with your phone number and contact information, and it's really, really impactful.
Speaker 1:But I thought, god, you could do so much more than this. Rather than just predicting one piece of information, I thought we could do four pieces of information. So imagine you have four pocket watches sitting on the table and you have four photographs and you ask the participant to just randomly assign one of the pocket watches to each of the photographs. And that envelope is sitting there and you open the envelope there and, um, you open the envelope, you, you give the participant, you give a spectator the envelope, the piece of paper. They open it up and there is a list of the names of the people in the photographs, along with their published times of death. The pocket watches are open and those and those pocket watches are set to those exact times. So you have predicted, so you can weave the story, that you know that they are casting influence through time and desperately to get attention, and so they have just caused the participant to place the pocket watch set at that individual's time of death upon their photograph.
Speaker 1:Place the pocket watch set at that individual's time of death upon their photograph. I mean or a simple drawing, uncolored. You give the participant four crayons, they color it in. The performer's version is opened and it matches the participant's coloring scheme perfectly. No electronics involved, all attained just through a system that I called an index decoding system, so as the items are being placed, the performer calculates what will come out of the envelope. Yeah, so I would definitely have one of those with me. Yeah, I called it the Pathfinder Clear and I don't know if anyone is releasing it. I still take it with me on my lectures, which I love. I still really enjoy doing. I still I really enjoy lecturing.
Speaker 3:Well, over the past couple of years there's been some controversy over these kind of products. Without giving anything away Now I know that you mentioned it. There you have the Taylor Index decoding system. What makes your version or that version? I know that's based on Animans, but what makes that one the best version for you?
Speaker 1:Well, that's a really good question, and it is only very loosely based on Animans. Animans was made out of playing cards because everyone has loads of spare playing cards, so it makes sense. Ok, well, I'll just use these. But an index made from playing cards is too friggin small. I would constantly be fumbling because of the size of the device, and so I expanded it and I released a version called the Expanded Animate Index.
Speaker 1:And then I came up with the idea of being able to wanting to do things like having four borrowed items on the table. A participant puts them in any order they like in front of them, and then the piece of paper that's been sitting there is a photograph of those items or similar items, in that exact order. So how could I do that? Well, I came up with a system that allowed me and this is the unique aspect of my approach to this that as the items are placed, you narrow. I mean four items. The possibilities are 24, four times, three times, two times one. So the first choice narrows it to from 24 to six, and then from 6 to 2, and then from 2 to 1. And so I came up with a system that allowed that, and then the index that I created simply facilitates that narrowing down, and it's a unique design because it is designed that way to suit my system indexing system.
Speaker 3:And you say that this is only available on your lecture tours.
Speaker 1:Now, Arcane relics will eventually, if they have the rights. They have rights to produce and market the indexes and there are still a few, because I used to sell them to Murphys. And there are still a few, like Tannin's Magic in New York, for example, still has an inventory of them, I believe. So you can get them if you look around for them.
Speaker 3:Otherwise, get me to come and lecture and I'll bring them with me. Amazing, well, let's move on to number four, then.
Speaker 1:So what is in your fourth spot? A routine that I call the prisoner. Now I began my performing career as a storyteller, performing oral storytelling, which is very different from it's a concept that is poorly understood nowadays by many, many performers, Not that there aren't masterful storytellers, people who tell stories masterfully out there. She said the concepts of the difference between storytelling and what is often mistaken for storytelling. I'm referring to traditional storytelling. You can remember, storytelling predates the written word. There's no scripting in oral storytelling, the original approach to storytelling. They didn't write things down, and that's the approach I like to take, but anyway't, they didn't write things down. Uh, but um, and that's the approach I like to take, but anyway, uh, more on that later. Um, uh, I, uh, I would use my, uh, my eclipse. So I would take my eclipse, which is a purse, um, that works the same way as equinox, except instead of a bag, and uh, and the five balls. You have a purse and five coins or, as I usually use, four coins. But the reason why I would have that is because the effect, which is based on D Gorbushie's free will, combined with a very special envelope that Matt Johnson came up with, very special envelope that Matt Johnson came up with. Matthew Johnson was a very dear friend of mine. You see, it's the story. That's the thing for me.
Speaker 1:I, before I became a classroom teacher, I had a job. It didn't suit me quite as well. I was a classroom teacher, I had a job that didn't suit me quite as well. I was a prison guard yeah, a little old me, a correctional officer at a pretrial center in Vancouver, here in Vancouver, and you know, it was the only thing I could find to keep bodies whole together during a recession. And when the economy began to pick up, I thought, OK, maybe it's time to move on. But you know the old story I'd met. The girl was talking about getting married. I'm saving money, I'm stuck here forever. And that was on my mind the day I was escorting some prisoners to the library and, out of the blue, one of them opens his book and he says you know, boss, this book is so, these books are so unrealistic. Now, why would you say that? Well and I swear that this actually happened, he said well, all of the characters in these books. They all have, they all seem to have such control over their lives. Think about it, boss. If you had control over your life, would you be in this shithole Now? I laughed, along with everyone else, you know. But in my head I'm thinking, holy cow, Okay, universe, I'm listening, I'm listening, and within a couple of months I'd quit and I went back to school. I became a classroom teacher. But here's the thing when that door slammed behind me for the last time, what a sense of freedom. It felt magical, and a deep appreciation for being able to make choices, and I want to share that magical experience with you. And I picked someone in the audience.
Speaker 1:Now, it's a true story, it's an anecdote. It is very carefully structured to have all of the required aspects of a story, with a weakness, a desire, opponents plan a battle, self-evaluation, new equilibrium, all that no-transcript. And I don't have a voice like Max Maven or you know, or Eugene Berger. So how? But I, I can. I can, as Bob Cassidy once once said. You know, if you can fake sincerity, you've got it made. So I just become really sincere, set a context for the effect. That elevates the impact hugely. So that would be my one. Two, three that would be my number. Four is it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that would be my number four. Uh, the prisoner. So in the prisoner. Is there a an effect within that, or is it the presentation which stands alone?
Speaker 1:oh, excellent question. Um, I think that, um, in a presentation, a magical effect. Um, if you're, if you're weaving a story or an anecdote, uh, and there are distinct differences in in the structure of those two things with into your mentalism or magic, that story or anecdote has to be able to stand on its own and if it can't, well then it's not finished yet. You have to keep telling it more, you have to keep working, you have to present it to a live audience and get feedback from a live audience more for you to hone it. Oftentimes we don't even know what, the real big idea that's percolating in our mind behind the story, until we have told it a hundred times, and then it suddenly becomes clear and the and the shape of it shifts and then it becomes really strong. But in the, in the prisoner, as I said, it was mentioned, but only in passing, I guess it's it's based on Didi Gorbushie's idea of free will. So I say that there are, you know. So I want you to experience a little bit of, I want you to experience this magical moment, the idea on how valuable the ability to make choices are. But first I'm going to take that ability away from you so that when you get it back you'll appreciate it, just like I did when I left the prison. And so there are.
Speaker 1:There are four coins three coins a copper, a silver and a Chinese coin. You're going to be making some simple choices. These go in the purse. I give the purse to the participant. They choose them, one at a time. They choose one. I ask them to tuck it under the mat on the table, whatever that coin is, because my back is turned, I can't see. I choose another coin. Now, yet another free choice Keep it or give it to me. So they either keep it or give it to me. The last coin. They either keep it or I end up with it. So I have one, the participant has one and there's one on the table.
Speaker 1:Now there has been a prediction on the table the entire time In an envelope. I remove the card from the envelope, show them that there's nothing else in it, and then I read it out and it might read Christopher has the Chinese coin oh, look, I do. The assistant that's you has the silver coin oh, look, you do. And the copper coin is on the table. And there it is. So then I pop the bubble. So then I pop the bubble, you can have your free will back. Feels good, doesn't it? So that's the routine and it plays great for stage, parlor or close up. I've performed it. I know that John Archer performed a version of it for a while and he had one of my clips, which was a great compliment to me, I think, but that's the overall effect. So, didi I should thank, by the way, again for allowing me to teach his ideas about his freeing will effect, which he came up with originally.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think something that you touched on before that when you were talking about storytelling as well from doing a narrative heavy show. I have always thought that a good storytelling show or a good narrative-driven show should stand up without the other thing in it. So, for example, if it was just a magic show, the audience would be happy with the magic. If it was just a play, then the audience would be happy with just the play, and then when you add the other elements, it just becomes something that they weren't anticipating, expecting, and it means that they're almost getting more of an experience than they were anticipating.
Speaker 1:I couldn't put it better myself. I mean, that's, that is absolutely true. It better myself, I mean that's, that is absolutely true. Um, uh, I, I find that, uh, um, the storytelling. Uh, heming Nelms I've been trying to remember his name uh, wrote a wonderful book, um, uh, uh, on, um, magic, uh, and the performance of magic, the structure of magic.
Speaker 1:And uh, it was him, I believe, who said um, you know, if he's on stage and he invites someone up and asked and snaps his fingers and asked them to look in their pocket and they find a ham sandwich in their pocket, that would be a cool trick, okay, but if, um, if you are out, uh, uh, hiking with, with the same fellow you've become friends and you're out hiking with the same fellow and he says, oh my goodness, I'm hungry, and the gnomes would say check your pocket and there's a ham sandwich, that would be magic. So the context is everything. That would be magic. So the context is everything. So the story, the way I look at story, it's what makes the audience hungry. It prepares them for the magic, to appreciate the shape of the event that's just about to happen and recognize that event as being magical. Yeah, but that was an excellent way of describing it, yeah.
Speaker 3:Amazing. Well, I loved the prisoner story as well. I was sitting here absolutely bewitched by you saying that. So a great story and leads us into number five. So what was in your fifth spot?
Speaker 1:An effect that I came up with, um called overkill and um, briefly. And I just love this effect because, oh, it's so much fun to perform, it's so much fun, uh, there's, there's not a transistor in sight. Um, uh, you have, uh, and, and it comes with a story, and one of the one of the uses of storytelling is to set up. If you require your audience or your participant to perform a specific set of movements, to act in a very particular way, you can use your story to demonstrate exactly how you want the audience to behave, that audience member to behave. So this is about five. You show five photographs of four. I use four photographs of women and one man.
Speaker 1:These poor people have something tragic in common they were all murdered in various parts of Great Britain 20 years of 1911 and 1915. And you may be thinking five murders in all of Great Britain Spit in the bucket. Well, you'd be right, they were, you know. But these five were the purview of this new inspector and they gave them to him, never expecting them, et cetera, et cetera. But what happens then is that you introduce five photographs of suspects then, and they were the five suspects were eventually convicted of these murders. But the way that this new inspector from Scotland Yard solved these murders, got five feathers in his cap, was he employed secretly a medium, what we would call a psychic today and she used a very interesting process to match suspects with victims. Let me show you how, what she did. And then, so the uh. She used the names m, mary, m-a-r-y, and the participant moves, uh, one card from the top to the bottom. Now this is based on, um, uh, the ramsey prophecy, uh. So those of you, those people who know what the ramsey prophecy is the term will the cards match will come to mind. So it's based on that same principle in which those words are and.
Speaker 1:But I discovered we are not limited to a specific number of letters at all. We, we have a huge leewayway once I figured out how the thing actually works. So I use names, and the first name is Mary and M-A-R-Y and they can move. So that's moving four cards from the top to the bottom, and those four movements can occur between either piles. You can have three in one pile, one in the other. So I demonstrate two possibilities of how that might have happened, how the medium might have moved those cards around. And then I say, okay, well, you know, I detect that you might have some of these abilities yourself.
Speaker 1:So the participant I spell through the four names, the fifth one, oh yeah. So a match is made at the completion of each spelling, and so two cards are put together, handed to someone in the audience to hold on to. The fifth match is made through default, but still according to their intuition. And then, when the backs of the cards one might say Mary Caldwell, murdered 1911 in Cornwall, and it was matched with oh, this dude convicted for the murder of Mary Cornwall hung in, you know, hung for the murder of Mary Caldwell, murdered in 1911. So all five cards match and kind of raises the hair on the back of your neck as, and you have five different reactions from five different people as they read uh, what's on the back of their cards? Um, and it's, it's really, really fun to do. Um, you can structure it seriously or you can structure it with humor, but that uh, uh is is an effect that um has is one of the one of my all-time favorites, for sure wow, that sounds so cool.
Speaker 3:And that moment where the the pictures match, because obviously I've seen versions of this over the years, but that moment where the the images match must be such a poignant moment that almost doesn't need any more clarification.
Speaker 1:It's quite evident what's happened straight away uh, yeah, I know, I know uh bizarre performers to use the effect um as uh as a warm-up or a precursor to a seance. Yeah, it works really well for that, that's great.
Speaker 2:Hey guys, harry here from Alakazam Magic, I hope you're enjoying the podcast. I'm just here to interrupt and tell you a little bit about the Alakazam Magic Adventure. It has taken us 35 years to get to this date. However, may the 9th 2026 will be the very first Alakazam Magic Convention. Now I know you guys are super excited, maybe just as excited as we are. First of all, the venue is a 37-minute direct train from central London. The venue is then literally a 10-minute walk from the train station. There's hotels within a stone's throw, there's restaurants nearby and there's incredible food and drink on site. That's all without even getting into the magic side of things. We are going to have four incredible lecturers performing throughout the day, including one person who's going to be flying over to their very first UK lecture. We are buzzing to announce who those four are. Not only that, there'll be dealers on site and a place for you guys to jam and session and meet new friends.
Speaker 2:Where are the lectures going to be held? This is my personal favourite bit about the Alakazam convention. They're going to be happening in one of the cinema screens. That means fully tiered seating, comfy seats, a drinks holder and there will be a close-up camera on the jumbo cinema screen that will be giving you close-ups of all the little nuances that you're going to need to see when the lecturers are performing. There will, of course, be a full gala show to end the evening off. You guys are not going to want to miss it. The great thing is as well on the Sunday, the day after, alakazam Magic Shop, which is a two-minute drive, will be open. So if you're heading down to the convention, why not stay overnight and come and visit our magic shop? Remember May the 9th 2026. Tickets on sale now at alakazamcouk. See you guys soon. Now at alakazamcouk. See you guys soon.
Speaker 3:Excellent, wow, what a great choice. In at number five, and that leads us into number six. So what did you put in your sixth spot?
Speaker 1:Well, I finally relinquish my desire to perform my own stuff. I mean, I listened to Mark Spellman's podcast on your podcast just yesterday and he said that there is so much fun and satisfaction in performing something that you yourself has created. And, uh, and, as as a creator yourself, you know this. And uh, so, uh, if, if I could, if I were being limited to the number of effects that I could perform, I would uh, uh, get the most enjoyment from performing my own material. But, excuse, next one is not something that I created. I'm referring to Osterlund's card under table using BSC. So I spent hours and hours and hours working on BSC and performed all sorts of effects with with it, and then, um, but now I've settled that's pretty well the only effect I perform with it, and it has such a. It is so powerful, so strong in the context, that I uh because once again, I, I, I pre, I set the context with a story uh, how I have, uh, have you know, does anybody play cards? And I don't play cards myself. I do have some friends real friends, not Facebook friends and they get together once a month and they play serious Texas Hold'em and they have an extra rule, which is if you can cheat and get away with it, you win. Because my friends are professional magicians, you know. But unlike me, they use sleight of hand. I'm more of a sleight of mind guy. Yeah, it doesn't mean I have a small mind, it means I do things differently, you know. But they have vexed me. They keep making fun of me because I won't play with them. But I'm training myself to beat them at their own game. Let me show you how close I'm nearly ready, I think so.
Speaker 1:Then I perform card under table in which the participant apparently the performer shuffles the deck, gives it to a participant who cuts the deck several times, takes the cards under the deck, under the table where no one can see it, cuts the deck once or twice more, takes a card, either top or bottom, turns it over, shoves it back upside down into the deck, and then that's put in the box and put back on the table, and then the performer then can wave his hand over the box. Oh yes, this is a red card. I'm sensing diamond, the four of diamonds. Wouldn't it be great if I could do that? And then the deck is removed, spread. There's one card face down, it's turned over, it's the four of diamonds and it just is. The impact is tremendous, tremendous impact.
Speaker 1:Uh, and then I, I finished the story by saying, yeah, you know what, next time those guys call, I'm going to tell them okay, visa, mastercard will play, so, um, so that's the denouement, that's the to the story, that's new equilibrium. I'm ready to take these guys on. So. So the story comes full, full circle and and finishes. So that frame has been closed around the effect, and they'll have something to remember that effect by, because you know, every time they, when they think of gambling or they might remember the story and the effect and the feeling that they had watching that.
Speaker 3:Amazing. Now, when you come up with your narratives, do you look at a trick and then come up with a narrative, or do you typically have a narrative and then you discover a trick that fits with it?
Speaker 1:Really good question. It works both ways for me. For the story of the prisoner, because the prisoner was a true story. The idea of the story about my friends playing Texas Hold'em is pure bollocks. I mean, I just made that up. But so I started with a true story and then went to find an effect that would illustrate it to these free will. And then to get maximum Impossibility out of the effect, I used my method for for card under table method uh for um, for uh, card under table, um, I had this wonderful effect, um that I put these hours and hours of work into, into mastering um. So I thought, okay, I need a, I want to frame this with a context. And then so over several years, I mean, I I didn't sit down and start working on it, I just this. Just these ideas just spontaneously came out and as the process of oral storytelling happens, the big idea behind the story becomes clearer.
Speaker 1:The more you tell it, you get reactions from the audience. So you know where to what to emphasize, how to modulate your voice based on their reactions, when, what to emphasize, uh, the um, uh mannerisms that you might uh employ as you tell the story to emphasize various things non-verbally. You see, you don't have any of this available. When you're typing a story, none of it is. You don't have any of that available. When you're reading a story, you don't have any of that available. If you memorize a story and recite it word for word, you only have access to that when you tell a story, not at an audience, but to an audience, with an audience, where the audience's reactions are what control the timing of the story and this and the the limitless nuances that go into telling a story. Um, and every time you tell the story it's different, because it can't be the same, because it's a different audience every time.
Speaker 1:And if you it's like in martial arts you learn kata, you learn a form, a prearranged set of movements. You can't go into a real fight and perform those movements in the exact order that you practice them in. You'd have your butt handed to you in seconds. No, you need to work with an opponent and respond to the opponent. And your ability to respond to an opponent, your ability to read them, to anticipate, is what distinguishes you as a martial artist. And it's the same with a storyteller, exactly the same as a storyteller, except your audience. You're harmonizing with your audience, which most martial artists unfortunately don't with their opponents, unless that's the goal of the martial artist.
Speaker 1:But anyway, getting off topic here, so yeah, so it's either you start with an effect that you love and then you create the narrative around it. What do I love about this effect? And that will change as you begin to. You may find that the best part, the most fun part, fun part of the effect is the preparing the deck to be looked at. You know, you might come up with certain turns of phrase and and and humorous moments, that is, that are playing with the audience, and then that's almost as much fun as they as the payoff when the card is revealed itself.
Speaker 1:But each, regardless of whether the story is true or not true or completely made up, there are certain requirements for a story that really has, that is appreciated by the audience to the maximum extent, there needs to be characters and in the character and the main character, the protagonist, so to speak, has to have a weakness or a need or something. In the card effect, in the story with, with, with the gambling magicians, the weakness is I don't play poker, I hope with some poker. So my desire is to beat these assholes at their own game and so, and they are my opponents, so I've set them up as opponents. I have a plan. You see, the character, the protagonist, must have a plan, and that plan is I'm going to train myself to beat them at their own game. I'm going to practice, I'm going to train.
Speaker 1:And the battle, the conflict, the main conflict in that little story is the performance of the effect. Here we're going to try this, we're going to give it a go, I'm going to apply my skill here and see what comes out. So that's the conflict, that's the battle. The self-evaluation is well, did it work? Yeah, it worked, look. And then the denouement, the new equilibrium is when those guys call again, I'm going to take them on. Yeah, so that. So those seven requirements of a story the weakness, the desire, an opponent, the plan, the battle, self-evaluation a new, new equilibrium that completes the story to the in the audience's mind. Uh, completely, um, unconsciously, of course. Uh, they'll feel satisfied by a story that has all of those components in it and where to fit the magic in. Well, that's the fun part, that's the really creative part, I think.
Speaker 3:Amazing, wow. Well, that does not only give us a lot to think about, but it does lead us into the tail end. So we've got two more items left on your list. What is in number seven?
Speaker 1:um. I am currently closing my close-up show with with it and um. Once again, I have a um, uh. I've always been astounded by this, the idea of the relationship between um, perception, imagination and experience and those things, those do, those three things interact. So my narrative is that I have you know, I'm going to reveal a secret to you, which magicians aren't to do, but this secret is one that all magicians use, and without this secret there's no magic. And that is, I call it, messing with the line. And the line is in our minds. On one side of the line are all the things that we perceive as being real, and on the other side of the line are all those things that we can imagine. But where is the line? It's impossible to tell. Where does perception end and imagination begin? We can't tell because we need the imagination to interpret what we perceive. So I'm going to mess with that line right now, in front of you.
Speaker 1:Imagine I'm holding a card for you right here. I've got a deck of cards. I took it, I shuffled it up, I took a sharpie, I wrote a number on the back, from one to 52, mixed them up some more. Oh, it's in my box over here. So imagine a card from that deck. We'll say it's the two of spades. Imagine that. I'll help you with this. It's your first time. We'll say that the number on the back of the two of spades is even and less than 26. Go ahead, what number should we all imagine? So they give a number like 12. Excellent, we are all imagining 12. And here's a card for you the three of hearts. What do you imagine, on our behalf, is on the back? Oh, it's odd, and it is. It's an odd number and it is greater than 26. So they say 41. Okay, 41. And here's one for you. I'm showing you the back of this imaginary card because it says 26 on it. If you could imagine any playing card in the deck to be on the face of the card with 26 on the back, what would it say? What would it be? And so they name a card two of hearts. And then so three cards are removed from the deck. The deck's taken out of the box, three cards are removed and their predictions match. They have predicted. So you say yes. So you recapitulate and you say and I'm sorry, things don't always work out the way they should, we did not imagine this. We perceived this and I show them the faces of the cards, bang, a really powerful moment. And then there's the kicker. You could have imagined any card in the deck to have 26 on the back. You named the two of hearts. I just have one last question before we go when is the line? And I turn the card around and the two of hearts has 26 on the back.
Speaker 1:Brilliant piece of magic for Brian's effect. I use his original. There have been other versions released after, but I use his original. There have been other versions released after, but I use his original and absolutely love it. I think it's one of the most astounding card effects ever created. I can't give it enough praise. It's just astounding. So, out of all the possibility, possible effects that I could end my close-up show with's, that's what I like to end it with, because it suits. I had the idea in mind, the notion of teasing the audience with perception, and the idea of perception and imagination, because it's a great way to cloak a prediction effect, right so in mind, and then I came across a trilogy and I thought that's it. Boom, that's definitely what I want. And, yeah, kudos to Brian. I just I think it's just amazing, absolutely amazing. Yeah, it think it's just amazing, absolutely amazing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's such a wonderful trick. I remember the first time I saw it just being absolutely bowled over. And one thing that I've noticed about your list so far is there's always either a pleasing method or a pleasing narrative. So when I think about equinox, real ghost, um, the index decoding system trilogy uh, all of these tricks have very pleasing methods, as in when you're performing them, I'm guessing you get a very nice internal satisfaction from the method. But also the stories that you have as well. So, like in the prisoner and overkill and card under table, the stories that you have sounds like it just fills you with joy to to tell those stories it does.
Speaker 1:And, um, I I think that joy comes from connected, being able to connect with, with, with the people seeing just feeling, uh, so connected to their, when they, when I see people, when, when they smile at just the right time, uh, and when they, when they nod their head at just the right time, I think, think, yeah, they're with me.
Speaker 1:We're going down this weird path together and it is so much fun to do that. It is to have company, to share this bit of me with them, but also to enjoy their company and yeah, so I think you've got that nailed Exactly and the method has been. The methods have been practiced, so I don't even think about them anymore. Like, using the index decoding system was a challenge at first, well, first coming up with the challenge, but it's like anything else you learn, the method fades into the background and you enjoy it. But more so I think you enjoy, uh, what it does for the audience. Seeing, seeing the audience enjoy that because of something that you have said or you have created, or you're something you're doing at that moment. I think that's why I'm hooked on on performing for sure superb.
Speaker 3:Well, that leads us into your final choice. So what was in your final position?
Speaker 1:A routine that I call a scrying out loud. I read Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell, which was a wonderful commercial magic book of book, fictional book I'm sorry, I told myself I'm going to remember the name, but I can't the author's name a very popular book. When it came out it was all about the idea of magical realism. Magic is real, but nobody is left who performs it. Magical realism Magic is real, but nobody is left who performs it. And there are magic clubs all over Great Britain who get together and they talk about what magic could have done or used to be able to do. And in walks Mr Norell who is an actual magician who could perform real magic, and that's the start of the book. And then they find Jonathan Strange, who was another magician. He trains himself to become a real magician. It's during start of the book. And then they find Jonathan Strange, who was another magician. He trains himself to become a real magician. It's during the Napoleonic Wars and so we've got these magicians helping the British government fight Napoleon. And it's hilarious. It's that I read it because it was written by a muggle and so, but everyone was talking about the wonderful magic in this book written by a Mughal. I said okay, so what do Mughals consider to be magical? What is the shape of the events that happen in this book that they call magic? So I read the book with that in mind and this idea of being able to see what Napoleon was up to in a bowl of water kept coming up. That was the main effect, the main piece of magic in the book, scrying second sight, google Earth in a bold. And so I thought I want to come up with a way of doing that. So I did. I came up with a couple of electronic versions and I performed that with a couple of electronic versions and I performed that. But you know, and that version, which I no longer perform well, I still perform, but not as often as my newer version there's a bowl of water sitting on a piece of paper. There are symbols drawn on the piece of paper. They look into the bowl. I say, okay, I'm going to look away, I'm going to name the symbols on the bowl. One of them is in your mind right now. When I name the symbol you are thinking of, you're going to draw it on the surface of the water. So I'm looking away. Let's say they're thinking of a cross. So I name the symbols. I say cross, and and he, he, she, draws this across on the surface of the water. The, the bowl of water then sends me, tells me they're thinking of a cross. So now I know. Then I come back and I could just reveal the fact that I know there was a cross drawn on the surface of water. But I said no, water holds energy so wonderfully. Look, look, look, look, and I tear a piece of paper off a corner, off that piece of paper, drop it into the bowl, ask them to look in the bowl, and the cross appears on the piece of paper. Really, that is cryingrying out loud, but I want it, I want more distance. So, um, I came up with a different version in which I have a bowl, uh, there, uh, there's a piece of paper sitting there but it's blank. It's just to keep.
Speaker 1:Splashes off the table, flashes off the table, and I have a Koran deck. I pass out a Koran deck, esp deck or something that will tell me, like a mind buster or or one of my devices that will tell me their thoughts. So the participant makes a selection. I look in the bowl. Ah, you're thinking of the. Uh, the two of hearts, yes and um, here you try, you try um. Or lately I've been using um, a cube, um, playing with a cube that has letters on it, the, the six, a, e, I, o, u and y know. So they think of one of those. They've got it face up in their hand and I tell them ah, you're thinking of an O, show them the O, right.
Speaker 1:And then for the last third one, I can't, I have trouble seeing it. So I tear off a corner, drop that in ah, you are thinking of a Y, it's a Y, yes. So would you like to try? I get one of the audience then to come up, say you look in the bowl of water, don't guess. No, guessing, you will either see the letter or you will not. And so they look in the water. The audience has chosen a letter and they can't see it. You can't, I can see it. Ok, I'll allow you to cheat a little bit, like I did. So I turn off a corner of the paper, give it to them, they dip the paper into the water and they can see ah, it's A, is that correct? And they're right. So that's my second to last closing effect for my close-up show. And gets great reactions because the participant as magician is always well-received, I think, as long as it's done with courtesy. And then I lead them, and that's my lead, into trilogy and away we go.
Speaker 3:What a great way to close it out, and I love the line Google Earth in a bowl. I think that's brilliant, absolutely superb. It's a great, great list full of really interesting stories, some great methods. But we did give you 8 items, but we're only going to give you one each of the remaining 3. So I want you to imagine that you're going to give you one each of the remaining three. So I want you to imagine that you're going to dig a big sandy hole on your island. You're going to throw something inside. What are you going to bury onto your island?
Speaker 1:If I could, nothing tangible. But I would bury the idea that there's no such thing as magic, because to me magic is just as real as comedy, as tragedy. It just requires a very particular point of view, one of two particular point of views. One is that either being insane and that's you know, that's debatable whether it applies or you see it as a theatrical structure happening. I mean theatrical structures on stage come from real life. There are real funny things happen in the world. Authors, playwrights, they take those ideas, they structure them and they structure events to happen on stage that we laugh at because we find them funny, and they structure the frame very carefully so that we will see it as funny. Or they might structure the frame of the events in a play so that we will see it as funny. Or they might structure the frame of the the events in a play to so that we will see an event as being very tragic and and and when those, those events funny things, tragic things happen in real life. No one is going to tell you that. You know, snap out of it. It's all in your head that that's not tragic at all. I mean, you would be highly offensive, same with we've all heard the term. That's not funny. It's because they have a different perspective and they can't see how. How an event is funny. But exactly the same thing with magic. We don't.
Speaker 1:Many people say that there's no such thing as magic. But how is it that they're able to recognize it when they see it? So it has a structure and people who design magic, perform magic, know this structure inside out and backwards, because they structured their effects to have that shape so that the audience will say, oh, that was magical and they will recognize the shape. That the audience will say, oh, that was magical, and they won't recognize the shape. And but then to go ahead and say there's no such thing as magic is ludicrous in my mind. So I see events like what happened with the prisoner that day. I just happened to be thinking, oh God, I'm going to be here forever. If you had control over your life, boss, would you be here? Holy cow, you know the timing. That's the structure of that event. In looking back on it, that's magic.
Speaker 1:Copperfield calling that night that's magic I have. My life is full of events like that. Full of events like that. So, um, if people who dismiss them refuse to look at them, uh, I don't think it means anything, uh, mystical, or it's just. It's just another kind of beauty you can admit into your life. That's all. It's just a beautiful event that you can appreciate. Well, your life, that's all. It's just a beautiful event that you can appreciate oh, that was magical. And just appreciate the beauty of the shape of the event that happened, and then and then carry on knowing that, yeah, watch for the next one, I'm looking forward to it, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I think what, what you said there is really interesting in that I don't think that there is a concrete definition of magic, whereas something like comedy there is. If you say what is comedy, you know it's something that makes me laugh, it's something that's funny. When you say what is magic, well, you know, magic could be, like you said, tragedy. It could be someone raising from the dead, or it could be something mystical, like you know. Maybe there's a witch doctor who takes a doll and says that it is the likeness of someone else and when they cast a spell on it, suddenly the other person gets better. Or it can be, like you just said, those magic moments.
Speaker 3:You mentioned mark spellman earlier. I distinctly remember his first britain's got talent performance where he talks about isabella and his daughter and he says you know, this is the real magic, like childbirth, having a family, getting over illness. These are the real things that are magical. So I think magic is not a concrete definition. Magic. Magic can be so many more things. It's such a loose, weave thing that you know can mean so many different things to so many people is beauty.
Speaker 1:I mean, all those things can be said about beauty as well, but that doesn't mean that beauty doesn't exist. So how do you define it? Yeah, we can't define. We can't put a definitive, closed off definition of beauty on the table. I mean, it's just because it means so many things to different people. But you're absolutely right, mark was absolutely right.
Speaker 3:Yes, many things to different people, you but. But you're absolutely right. Mark was absolutely right. Yes, amazing. Well, that is banished. Uh, from now on, on your island, magic does exist and the idea of magic is everywhere, so there's no escape in it. But that does lead us on to your book. So you've mentioned a couple of books throughout your list, but let's see which one you cemented on.
Speaker 1:This is the Bible for storytellers traditional oral storytelling. This is the book I would definitely take with me. It has changed my life and really opened my eyes to what storytelling is, what it can be. It's called Storytelling Process and Practice. It is no longer in print, but it's very easy to find on the used book market. It's by Norma Livo and Sandra Reitz they are.
Speaker 1:It talks about the difference between storytelling and other forms of narrative ways of getting information across. It predates the written word. It differentiates storytelling from things like reading a script. It differentiates storytelling from something like acting a part on stage. The play is telling a story, but the individual actors are not storytelling. They're part of the story, they're characters in the story.
Speaker 1:But oral storytelling traditional oral storytelling is quite distinctive. It has very distinct aspects to it, and the reason why I said that a lot of modern performers don't appreciate what storytelling is oral storytelling is because, like John Armstrong, I saw him lecture not too long ago. This is awesome, just. I love his stuff, Just, and yeah, he. He was here and lecturing and performing and I was really impressed. But in in there was a book written on scripting magic and he was quoted as saying that there is no worse way for an audience to feel that they are being talked at than having the performer stand on stage and tell a story. But that's exactly what storytelling is not Traditional storytelling. There is no such thing as you're not telling a story unless you have a live audience and you are basing your story on the audience's reaction. The audience is shaping the story as much as what is going on in the performer's head. They are an essential component, absolutely essential component, and always has been since before writing was invented. So that if and the way to the traditional way of performing, of developing a story and this is, I found this fascinating.
Speaker 1:See, when we develop an oral story, we don't have access, our vocabulary is significantly reduced because we don't need it. We don't need it because we have tone of voice, we have pitch, we have, um, a volume, we have all the myriad of movement and ways of connecting with the audience. That way, non-verbal communication is. You know, a great deal of actual communication is non-verbal. So and storytellers use that and learn how to use that in their performance of a story. So and the story never ends, the story never stops changing constantly. So the way to develop a story is you have an idea. You tell the story to a friend.
Speaker 1:You then, when I do storytelling workshops, I have my participants think of a story that I haven't told many, if anyone, that people that they think might find other people might find interesting. So they find a partner and they tell this little story, and then they and then, and they have so much time, and then they go, and then they tell the story again, and then they tell the story again, they don't get any feedback at the time. And then they go, and then they tell the story again, and then they tell the story again, they don't get any feedback at the time. And then again, and then you select one of the participants and you compare the reaction of the first person who heard it to the reaction of the second person to hear it, and the changes are phenomenal, they're amazing. And you can point out where, how this story changed, what the storyteller notices that this was. They're really curious about this spot, really curious here. So I want to emphasize that and hey, maybe that is why I enjoy telling this story, because that particular point, and so that comes, uh, there are, uh, yeah, storytelling, uh is, uh is an art and uh, and, and there's some, there's a structure to it as well, uh, but, um, yeah, uh, a story process and practice is, uh, is. And the only thing that it doesn't include is the different, because this was written in the 80s.
Speaker 1:Nowadays, things like story jams, like the moth where stories are told, the stories told in those storytelling jams, competitions they're competitions is that most of the stories told are personal narratives, they're anecdotes, and the best ones all have this structure, a proper structure, story structure to them. But there's a big difference. Now People are moving. But there's a big difference. Now People are moving, there's a difference between the structure of a personal narrative, an anecdote, and a traditional storytelling Like Long Long in the Galaxy, far, far Away that traditional beginning and old times. And even today, though, someone telling a personal narrative sitting in a pub.
Speaker 1:Even today, though, someone telling a personal narrative sitting in a pub, jamie has Jamie's not, that's not Jamie sitting there anymore. We recognize that Jamie is telling us a story. That's not Jamie anymore. He's become a far, he's become an ancient character, and we accept this character so, consciously or consciously, usually without being aware of it. But jamie is now the teller, and we all know how to behave when the teller is in our presence, um, uh, and it is an older character than the magician even so, and someone who brings magic into their storytelling or storytelling into their magic, has to know and be able to they structure their performance so that they know when they're a teller, being a teller the teller and they know when they're being the mage, and they have to plan the transition between them. But anyway, this book has helped me immensely with my storytelling and I highly recommend it.
Speaker 3:Amazing. Well, that's one that we shall all seek out. I actually just ordered a copy from Amazon. There was a secondhand copy on there. Are you kidding. I just ordered it and there was only one there.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a bit of magic right there.
Speaker 3:So anyone who wanted that copy, I have it already. That's great. So let's move into your final item. What was your non magic?
Speaker 1:item oh, um, oh, keys, house keys, yeah, um, I think, uh, I, I, I do a fair amount of metal bending and I do metal bending a key because I think bending a key is the key is very relatable to people because they're you know, it's darn hard. There are people who can bend keys with their hands. You know, I've seen it, I've seen it done. I said so. How difficult would it be to to bend that key? And the quarterback goes it's hard, but you can do it. So I say how hard would it be to damage that key? Oh, it'd take a lot of energy. Yes, so I bend the key, but the most powerful. But I always carry keys, superfluous keys, on my key chain. I carry four of them, four extra keys so that I can perform and impromptu, and I have performed it and whenever I have performed, it's like Norman McGill, the author of 13 Requirements for Performance of Miracle, which was recommended to me by Eugene Berger one day, by the way, two o'clock in the morning, over telephone, and McGill was absolutely right, absolutely right in all of his criteria that I have a wonderful magician friend by the name of Vitaly Beckman.
Speaker 1:He's been on Fool Us three times, fool them three times. He's astounding and he only performs his own material stuff that he's created himself and he doesn't share that with anybody. He keeps it to himself and kudos to him. And but my wife and I went to see him in New York. He was performing in New York. He was there for about six weeks or so with the show and then after the show we went. He was, you know, he had the backdrop and people were coming up getting autographs, selfies, stuff like that, and people were coming up getting autographs, selfies, stuff like that. And so we waited and we waited for the audience to finish adoring him and going out the door and these last three people were waiting for them.
Speaker 1:There was an elderly lady and a younger lady and a gentleman, and the three of them went out the door and the door closed behind them and they were standing outside and my wife and I went up, gave vitality, we got our hug and we're talking, and then they, these three people, come barging back in and they just interrupt their conversation, walk up to vitality and the gentleman says is it possible to bend metal with the mind? And vitality said well, uh, I don't really do that, but christopher does, so putting me on the spot. So he says okay, okay, and he takes out his key ring. I have a key, and, as it happened, it was a padlock key. It was about an inch long, and anyone who's familiar with metal bending knows okay, that's a challenge. So, okay, I'm going to need some more mass. So I took out, so I stole someone.
Speaker 1:Now we, nothing can happen to the keys. No, no, no, I just need the energy. I just need to be able to pull the energy from these keys, right, I mean, you've been in your pocket all this time, so, and so I, um, I put the, the keys into the. I said come here, you put these keys in your hand, okay, and then do the mumbo jumbo. And then she opens her hand and the padlock key is bent nearly in half, because it wasn't very strong. And um, and then she picked up the key and said he's channeling the forces of the universe, and the three of them, spellbound, walked out the door.
Speaker 1:I thought, oh God, there was my chance to establish a religion right there Now. So the power of that moment convinced me that I always carry keys. Now, and the tricky part, though, is following up, because you can't break character, I can't say, oh neat, tricky, no, so I have to. You know, you've got to be ready to fend off and bring, find a way to bring closure to something like that without offending anybody. So yeah, I would bring keys with me Amazing.
Speaker 3:Well, you mentioned about starting a religion there. When I look back at your list, I think there are many times within your list that that could be a thing, Because we started with Equinox, then PK, Touch, slash, Real Ghost, the Taylor Index, the Coding System, the Prisma Overkill Card, Undertable Trilogy Scrying Out Loud which I love that name, by the way. Banishment was the idea that there is no such thing as magic. Your book is storytelling process and practice and your item is keys 100%. You're starting a new religion with that list.
Speaker 1:If I were so inclined, amazing.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you so much, christopher. Now, earlier on you mentioned that your items are available in different places, but that you also lecture and that you do storytelling workshops. So if people want to find out more about you, about your products, even things like, uh, recorded events that you've done in the past, where can they go to?
Speaker 1:I think the easiest thing, because I love hearing from people and so if people can't find a particular item, I'm always happy to help them. So if you were to drop me a line strange magic at Shaw S-H-A-W dot C-A. Strange magic at Shaw, dot C-A Drop me a line and we can talk about lecturing or finding one of one of my products, no problem products, no problem, and do go check out christopher's at the table lecture and also his penguin lecture, and because they are both phenomenal as well.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you again, christopher. It's been such a uh a wonderful time talking to you and hearing your stories and philosophies and uh, thank you for inviting me. It uh considering, uh, the the company I I'm I'm deeply honored and thank you for missing out on walking the dogs for us as well, and thank you all for listening. Of course we're going to be back again next week with another episode, but until then, have a great week. Goodbye.
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