Joel M

A live show opens with robots, kids, and pure energy, then the control room realises ten full minutes aired with no sound. What happens next says everything about a presenter who helps to keep everything flowing and use his incredibly personable persona to make a disaster feel like it barely even happened. That’s our entry point into a fast, generous conversation with Northern Irish magician and Blue Peter presenter Joel M about building routines that survive chaos, delight kids and adults, and still feel fresh after thousands of views.

We trace Joel’s path from early stage shows to viral short‑form clips where his brother’s reactions became a storytelling engine. He breaks down why packaging matters as much as method when you’re competing with global feeds, and how he curates classics and modern visual pieces for attention, pacing, and punch. Then we dive into his “desert island” list, eight workers across cards, mentalism, and simply put, pure joy. Expect a “special” deck paired with Mnemonica for quick, impossible hits; a Clarity Box used as a late‑show kicker rather than a card location; iCurveball for durable, app‑free phone mind reading; an add‑a‑number pad that routes memories and PINs cleanly; billets with Acidus Novus, the move that built a career; Tenyo’s Crystal Cleaver for unapologetic wonder; Liam Montier’s Timeless, framed as pseudo‑hypnosis; and Blockhead, reimagined through a candid story about psychosomatic pain and the brain’s strange wiring.

Along the way, Joel shares pragmatic rules for stronger shows: design for robustness, not fragility; avoid repeating the same revelation three ways; cut hack lines that punch down; and let meaning carry the shock. His book choice, Derren Brown’s Notes from a Fellow Traveller, speaks to building theatre that lasts. His non‑magic tool, a Blue Peter badge, proves that props with story palm better in the audience’s mind.

If you love real talk about creating modern magic that works on stage, on camera, and with families, this one’s a keeper. 

Joel’s Desert Island Tricks: 

1. Deck of Playing Cards 
2. Clarity Box 
3. iCurvball 
4. Kozar Prediction Pad
5. Billets / Acidus Novus
6. Crystal Cleaver 
7. Timeless 
8. Blockhead 

Banishment. “Hold out your hand.. no, the clean one. Oh, that was the clean one”

Book. Notes from a Fellow Traveller 

Item. Blue Peter Badge 

Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk

Chapters

• 0:00 The Silent Live Show Disaster
• 2:29 Meet Joel M: Origins and Blue Peter
• 6:15 Live vs Pre‑Recorded: Handling Pressure
• 9:25 Social Media Strategy and Concepts
• 14:10 Touring Goals and Building a Stand‑Up Show
• 18:40 Curating Material and Avoiding Distraction
• 23:10 The Desert Island List Rules
• 24:30 Pick 1: The “Special” Deck and Mnemonica
• 29:45 Pick 2: Clarity Box as Kicker
• 33:00 Pick 3: iCurveball on iPhone
• 37:10 Pick 4: Add‑A‑Number Pad Uses
• 41:40 Pick 5: Billets and Acidus Novus
• 47:00 Pick 6: Tenyo Crystal Cleaver Delight
• 51:00 Pick 7: Timeless and Pseudo‑Hypnosis
• 55:10 Pick 8: Blockhead and Pain Framing
• 1:01:20 Psychosomatic Pain Story and Routine Idea
• 1:06:30 Banishment: Retiring Hack Lines
• 1:10:10 Book Choice: Derren Brown’s Notes
• 1:14:00 Non‑Magic Item: The Blue Peter Badge
• 1:17:00 Mario the Maker Magician’s Soundless Triumph
• 1:22:00 Tours, Mastermind, and Where to Find Joel

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

We also actually took Blue Peter to Blackpool Magic Convention two years ago and we did a whole special on that, which was really a silly idea to bring a whole camera crew in. I mean, as if you don't see enough mad stuff, seeing all these lights and booms being walked around the aisles was great fun. But so many magicians that have been on the show since I've joined, because I can't help but keep inviting people to get to I just like having magicians in. Since I've been on the show, the magician that's been on it for me was just the most special, and they've all been wonderful, friends with all of them. But Mario, the Maker Magician, was on, and it was the most amazing thing. Firstly, his Edinburgh show is what made me want to pitch him. It's the probably the only magician I've actively went out of my way and been like, you have to book this guy to come in and do it live, live on TV. But for the first time ever, we were live. Mario opened the show and he wanted it to be the first time it was seen by the kids because usually we would say to rehearsal, whatever. He didn't want to do that in front of the kids. He said, I want it to be a surprise. He's a total pro. Came out, gave it the absolute beans, gave one of the best magic performances I've ever seen. And in my earpiece, I heard, okay, nobody panic, but the last 10 minutes have gone out without any sound. So his entire segment went out with just him going around going crazy, robots, monkeys doing magic, and there was no sound on it at all. And I thought, oh my gosh, what are we gonna do? So I knew that what was going to happen is we probably well, we're certainly not gonna stop him in the middle of it, but it's live, remember? So they fixed it probably for the first 30 or last 30 seconds of his act. We then came out, I did an interview with him, whatever it happened to be. He taught some other tricks, did an amazing job. And then right after the show ended at 5:30, we had to go back and he had to do the whole thing again for the same group of kids. And Mario was that good that he did the exact same routine twice and got an even bigger reaction the second time because he just gave it even more energy. So that's my favorite magic memory from the show so far.

SPEAKER_02: 2:29

Now, I think this is our first Irish magician, but don't hold me to that just in case I'll get it wrong. But I do believe that uh today's guest is our first Irish magician. Now, if you haven't heard of Joel M, that means that you were not on social media. That is the first fact that I can tell you because he is absolutely everywhere, and I have enjoyed watching his videos for the past god knows how many number of years, certainly since the pandemic, when he started doing some really clever concept videos with his brother, in which he kind of tries to impress his brother, so to speak. Um, it's such a great set of videos. So if you haven't heard of him, go and seek those out first. But let me tell you a bit about him. So he is a Northern Irish magician and presenter. The presenter being a really interesting thing, and I'll tell you why in a minute. Now he's been doing magic since the age of five, performing publicly since 11. Um, and I mentioned that the presenter because he is the 41st presenter of BBC's Blue Peter. Now, our American friends, you may not know what Blue Peter is, but Blue Peter is a TV show that I watched when I was really little, and it had a huge cultural impact on the world. Uh, they used to do like huge charity drives where uh when we're at school we would have to collect cans and we would send the cans in and they would recycle the cans and then they had like a meter each week and they would show you how high up the meter has gone. They've had a flurry of celebrity animals and dogs. It really is such a British institution. So to be able to be a part of that, it must just be incredible. He is also Northern Ireland's celebrity of the year 2022. Uh, he has amassed 20 plus million followers across Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. And I've been told that is at the lower end now. Uh that stat has gone up probably quite dramatically. Uh, he is the youngest honorary member of the Irish Magic Circle. Um, I'm gonna stop saying Irish because uh for some reason I cannot say it. So I'm gonna stop that now. I'm just gonna introduce him. I'm really thrilled to have him here. I think it's gonna be a really interesting list. Of course, today's guest is the wonderful Joel M. Hello, Joel. Hello, sir. How are you? I'm very well now that you're here. I cannot say Irish. Uh that will probably be edited to sound like I can say it a bit better.

SPEAKER_00: 4:58

Dude, it's a struggle, and I sometimes forget the difference between the north and the south. And when I'm speaking to Americans, uh they struggle sometimes to understand that it's two separate countries. So Irish just works, it covers them all, you know. But uh most of my best friends are from Southern Ireland, uh, so it's that's a good place. But Northern Ireland is where I'm from. That's where I call home a little town called Bangor.

SPEAKER_02: 5:18

I knew a little bit about this, so I did say to Joel that I heard him on another podcast. Um we don't normally plug other podcasts on this one, but we will, uh, which was The Magician's Network, which is run by one of our previous guests, Richard Young. It's a phenomenal podcast, uh, and your episode was so interesting. I think your journey through magic is just fascinating. The fact that you are where you are now. How old are you now, Joel?

SPEAKER_00: 5:43

I just turned 28 a couple weeks ago. Uh I woke up with a couple of grey hairs at some point. It's starting to happen. It's not good. That was such a joy to do that podcast as well. Proper legend, Richard, as well. Lovely bloke.

SPEAKER_02: 5:55

Yeah, he's such a nice guy. Uh, and you know, you may have those grey hairs, but at least you have a makeup trailer which, you know, they they can sort all of that out. That's all good. Um, so yeah, you are currently the uh 41st Blue Peter presenter, and I'm guessing that you know your journey through magic ultimately has led you to this point. And I know that you spoke a little bit on the other podcast about that, so I'm not gonna say anything here. Um, but it wasn't necessarily your magic that got you onto Blue Peter, but certainly I'm guessing it had some influence on the way that you are on camera and the way that you talk so freely and naturally.

SPEAKER_00: 6:32

Yeah, I think it gave me a slight edge, and I certainly wouldn't have got the job if it wasn't for magic in one respect. That being that I was on the show as a guest, as a magician when I was a lot younger. So that's how they knew who I was. And if it probably wasn't for that, I doubt I would have got a call. I know that they went through a backlog of guests that had on before and looked and thought, well, would anyone that's already been on the show be good? And so that gave me a foot in the door. So I have magic design for that, absolutely. Uh, I do think it was a bit of an edge in terms of the live shows. We don't do as much live. Now we'll do it a couple times a year for big shows, uh I think like Christmas and children in need, that sort of thing. But like most TV now, it's pre-recorded. And that's it's great in that it's a little bit less pressure, but there was something about doing the live shows that really reminded me of doing stage magic, and I think having done that for years just helped me feel a little bit more calm because believe it or not, I still think it is scarier to do a magic show in front of live people than it is just looking down at camera. A lot of people seem to have it the other way around, it's never bothered me as much, but it was good practice for sure, and especially being a magician when stuff just goes wrong all the time and being also think on your feet and dealing with uh the general public, that certainly helped.

SPEAKER_02: 7:41

Your social media as well. Like I I knew you first from your social media, and I think you were doing things that other people weren't doing at the time, which was interesting. And again, you spoke about this on the other podcast, but it really rung true. It's the fact that you're doing such a diverse range of tricks as well, like misled, uh, you're doing like common new ones, you're doing uh things designed just for social media, not for social media. It's such a diverse mix of tricks that you're doing.

SPEAKER_00: 8:09

Yeah, and I think that was my favorite part of when I was posting on social media consistently, because there's bits of it that are I suppose tiring, like the editing and then just making sure posting scheduled. But the best part was every morning waking up and going, right, I've got to find new stuff. So most of my time during lockdown was spent absolutely devouring the magic websites and going through everything I could find. But what I noticed was a lot of the time the tricks that performed the best were some of the old ones that people have forgotten, old classics. And I had a great time doing that. And to your point about the concepts, I think that was a big thing. And I clocked that early on-ish. I realized that there were these incredible magicians who are so much more gifted than me. Uh, but they weren't necessarily packaging the magic in a way that was appealing to a broad audience, and maybe it would take too long to get to the point, uh, which is absolutely fine if you're performing live. But I think at some stage I realized that with these new algorithms, you're not just competing with other magicians anymore, you're competing with The Rock and Cristiano Ronaldo for the same attention. So you really got to do something that's gonna get their attention. Luckily for me, my younger brother Ethan was a perfect vehicle because he's so expressive and so funny. And magicians who are watching this will be under no illusions that of course he's like hamming up to a certain extent his reaction. Though I don't usually tell him the methods and I try to make it that if somebody was with me in person, I could do that trick for them. Uh, he certainly I think acted as the spectator watching. So the person watching was going, Oh, that's how I feel too. And that concept really, really worked. Um, by the way, can I just dip in and say as well, thanks for the very nice intro. I do appreciate you reading out all that stuff. It's very nice of you for doing that.

SPEAKER_02: 9:47

Well, I just think it's incredible that someone so young has managed to achieve so much, you know. In your 28 years, you've achieved more than you know, someone who's been in this profession three times that has potentially, you know, either wanted to achieve or has achieved. So the fact that you're there now, and I know that uh what came across on the other podcast is sort of how humble you are still with it all, and someone in your position could have a completely different head on them. And I think you're still very grounded, and I think you're very uh realistic. And one thing that you said on the other thing is how you sort of used your social media almost to help uh sell tickets to shows, and that's your real dream, and that's sort of where you're at now because you're you're developing your show and you're taking it on a tour, and and you're sort of living that part of your dream at this point.

SPEAKER_00: 10:40

It's funny, I think thanks for saying that by the way. I think the big thing for me is always been doing live shows. It's what I started off doing, it's what I find interesting myself. Like I love doing the videos and I get time with my brother, and I love doing computer, that's all great. But there is nothing that beats doing a stand-up magic show for me. I love close-up too, but doing stand-up shows, it's what drew me to doing magic in the first place, and I was pushing for doing that when I was younger. I just love the whole process of starting with nothing, putting together tricks, formatting it. I just love it so much. And that was always in mind when I started social media. It never really was to grow a big following. It was always well, if enough people watch the video, they might buy a ticket, and if they buy a ticket, then they like the show, and that'll be great, and then I can be happy. But it's uh yeah, it's been uh it's been fun. Got a new show coming later in the month, so I'm very much in the process of doing that as well. And it's it has to change as well as time goes by and have a slightly different audience now. So for once it was probably more your type of thing, very hardcore, intense, serious mentalism with the eyeliner. Now I am doing an egg bag, which and it's finding a way to make that work for both the adults and the kids. But that in and of itself is a really fun challenge that I enjoy. I enjoy taking part of.

SPEAKER_02: 11:54

Well, I know that uh from experience of friends that I have that are in social media, so the likes of you know Harry, uh our very own Harry Alexam, James Samuel. Now, they collect so many tricks, they are they are quite literally surrounded by hundreds of tricks.

SPEAKER_00: 12:10

So to tell you the truth, Jimmy, sorry to cut you off. I should apologize publicly to James Sandalon here because I was going through my office back in Northern Ireland and I find about 16 of his things that he's left at me that I forgot to give back. So sorry, sorry, James. I will post them back all day.

SPEAKER_02: 12:25

Does that help or hinder trying to narrow it down? Because you guys are completely surrounded, and even in terms of your show, when you have so many tricks that you just love and you're so enthused by, putting that into a show, and that's sort of it's something that we've not spoken about before, but that's sort of what this list is: the desert island list. It's almost like creating a show. You you start with this broad uh demographic of tricks and these ideas and all of the things, and I could do a book test, and I could do the egg bag, and I could all of these exciting things, but then we have to get it down into a two-hour show. Um so with someone like you in this position where you've got all of these tricks, is it easier to because you have so many to pick from, or is it harder because you've got so many to pick from?

SPEAKER_00: 13:11

I think it's harder, man, because it's a massive distraction in some ways. I have the perfect example. I was back, as I say, in Northern Ireland, and I've just cleared out a big studio space I had there because I've moved to Manchester, and the amount of stuff that I just forgot on my own. I was trying to clear away and clear out the office, but every five seconds I was get distracted by a new gizmo or to one of us sat there on the floor of the office, like, oh, and I could do this in the new show, this is great. And I'm never gonna do it. I mean, it's but I think that's the fun thing about magic, isn't it? Is even if something isn't really usable, we all find the enjoyment of the secret and the flaps and the flips and the flops. I do think it makes it harder because it's difficult to focus on what might actually be entertaining for the audience rather than what is just clever. So I'll find a method and go, I've never actually used that. And the truth is I probably don't have to use that. Stand paddle do, you know. So it's uh it's important sometimes to focus, and I do struggle. So I actually brought a friend onto the office to sit with me and be bad cop and be like, get rid of that, give that to another person. You you will never do that. So I think it makes it harder for me anyway. Maybe for somebody else, it would sparse their creativity, but for me, I'm just too distractable. So that's that's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_02: 14:19

And in terms of your set, so giving nothing away, is there anything in your show that you're you're now touring that made it into your list?

SPEAKER_00: 14:31

Ooh! I hadn't even thought of that, but if I glance over my list, I will tell you, okay. Yes, one of them. Yes for two of them. Yes for two of them. Yes, yes, okay. Exciting.

SPEAKER_02: 14:51

Well we'll we'll keep it. We'll keep it as a secret because we we do one thing on here. We we call it uh the the guest bingo. So this is Joel M. Bingo, okay? Um so our listeners have to guess which one of these are in your show. So we know that two of them are in your show. So normally we guess what's on your list. This time we're gonna do it differently. You're not gonna tell us until you've told us eight all eight tricks, and our listeners have to guess which two of these are in your show, unless you said egg bag in your list, in which case we already know that one of the show. Um, so everyone at home, everyone that's listening, your job is to guess which two from this list are on Joel's list, okay, in his show. Now, uh, before we go any further, if this is your first time listening to the podcast, the idea is we're about to maroon Joel on his very own Blue Peter Island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks, banish one thing, take one book and one non-magic item that he uses for magic. Particulars, who's there, what's there, all of that good stuff. We do not mind. This is in Joel's own imagination. So, Joel, let's get our Joel M. Bingo head on uh and work out which ones we think are in your show. What's in your first position?

SPEAKER_00: 16:07

I'm going to have to try so hard to not accidentally let slip as if we go through this. If there's a massive cut in the video, you'll know what happened. Well, in no particular order, I've thought long and hard about this, right? I don't necessarily think that this is the most crazy, glamorous, abstract list, but this is what I would take. So I'll go number one. Number one, it's it's just so classic. It would be a deck of playing cards. Uh, I'm not sure how much you want me to say, but maybe think of one that Phil Smith might make or your friend Mark might use. That sort of deck of cards I would take because I don't know what I would do at a close-up gig if I didn't have it. That's my bread and butter deck of cards, could go for hours. And if I'm on a desert island, I need something to entertain myself with. I travel so much, and pretty much the entire time you see me traveling these days, even not on a desert island, I'm just fiddling with cards all the time. I should be better at them than I actually am for the amount I sit and fiddle with cards. But that would be my number one.

SPEAKER_02: 17:09

Okay, so I did say, I did warn you before the podcast started that we do have Devil's Advocate. And all of our lesson, all of our listeners know what was about to as soon as you said that kind of deck. So, two questions. Number one, let's talk about the kind of deck that you've just mentioned. Now, you just mentioned Phil Smith's name. Um, and if I said DMC, hopefully people would understand what that means as well. Is that your preferred one? And if so, why?

SPEAKER_00: 17:37

I've used that one plenty. My preferred one might be one you would find from Steve Della, I believe. Uh, I've used those for a long time and ordered a ton of those, mainly because uh I'm 28 now and I don't wear glasses, so that makes it a little bit easier. Um, that would be the exact deck if I had to, I would use something that's very user-friendly. And in all of my time using them, I have never been caught with like that particular method. And I think it scares a lot of people, but until you try it, you'll just never know. I've never been caught.

SPEAKER_02: 18:11

Yeah, Steve's decks are great. So that's the anyone wants to check them out, it's the night flight deck. They are superb. Now, this is the devil's advocate part, Joel. So if you could only perform one routine or one trick with that deck of cards, what is the one routine you would perform?

SPEAKER_00: 18:26

I thought you might ask me that. That's what came prepared. It's really difficult. Um, I had an honorable mention for this, which would be out of this world. The a variation that I was shown, and I don't know this for sure, but I think it might be something by RC Wynn, but I'm not sure. If people know it, they'll know it. But it's a similar version to Out of This World. That's my honorable mention, but it would not be my top pick. My top pick would be a short little routine I use with mnemonica. That's my bread and butter. Most of the time, whenever I do card magic, it's just I'm asking for people to name cards, they're appearing in any old way. So essentially, name a card, find a card. If you want what you got really specific, it would be name a card and it's in my back pocket. That's usually what I do to open. I've just been doing it for years. And I think for a lay person, that is as quick and as impossible as you can possibly get without some crazy flashy gimmicks. So that would be my pick. I reckon you could get a reputation just doing that trick over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_02: 19:28

Yeah, absolutely. And I think what's really interesting, you mentioned that some people may be a little bit scared of using that kind of deck, but I think I've noticed through throughout this podcast that people are using them in completely different ways. So we had uh one guest who used it to get out of trouble, um, and it was almost like a safety net. We've had some people that use them in order to locate something quick enough. I think that's what you are indicating that you do with it. Um, and then of course you have the seeing the face without seeing the face way of doing it as well. So it seems to be that everyone has their own thing, and yours is a way to locate it quickly.

SPEAKER_00: 20:11

It's less so I think it's less to locate it quickly because for those of you who know mnemonica, for example, or something like that, it's very easy to do that anyway. Uh for the most part, when I use that type of deck of cards, I don't really actually use the method. It's more so that uh for anyone, especially on stage, a moment that I really dislike is when you find a card and there's a card here in your hand, and you have to look at it or peek it somehow before you do the bang and you reveal it. I like to just know that's when I'll tend to use it just to be absolutely sure. So for me, it's worth having that method in there. But it is great for getting out of trouble as well. That's 100%. And if you're doing any sort of stack stuff, then it's really helpful for different things, weighing cards, that sort of thing. It adds an extra little something, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 21:00

Well, that's a great choice in it, number one. So let's uh well, number one, we all have to work out is that Joel's first choice in his show? Mmm, could it be used in there somewhere? We'll find out at the end. So, number two, Joel, what was in your second position?

SPEAKER_00: 21:14

Number two is a stage item. I suppose you could use it clue out, but I'm not saying it's in the show. It might or might not be. Just throwing some red herrings or not, or not. Uh it's an item that typically would be used on stage, but could be done close up, and that is David Regal's clarity box. First day of a massive David Regal fan. Pretty much every single thing he puts out is just brilliant. And I remember having his box sets back in the day, which are worth their weight in gold. Uh, but this particular box, for those who don't know, I think I'm safe enough in saying uh it's a switch box which allows you to switch things in and out. I've seen a lot of people use it as the like emergency card plot. What I use it for is essentially a kicker ending. I I have used it in a lot of shows where it's not really the big reveal. I have used it for confabulation sort of thing. But if I had used it for one reason, it would be to bring an audience member up on stage to get to know them a little bit. It might be something silly, like they name the lemon in a bill and lemon, and it just so happens to be in there. That my favorite use for it so far was to use it following a bank night routine, um, which was at the very end after they've won their fiver, but I've kept the 200 quid or whatever. It's to say some people probably wonder what happens when that goes wrong, and it's okay. I do have an insurance policy, and the insurance policy comes out, and it you know it says, you know, you have to return the 200 quid to the magician, and also thanks for naming the lemon harry or whatever it happens to be. So I like to use it as a little gut punch at the very, very end, and I can't uh find a method that I like more for doing that sort of thing. And there's plenty of them, but that's my pick. I just know it's going to work every single time because physics.

SPEAKER_02: 23:02

So this version in particular, was it purely method based, or was it because it was a bit larger than other ones or the emergency plot?

SPEAKER_00: 23:11

That was the big one. Um so another version that I absolutely love is David Penn's Mystery Solved. I think it looks brilliant. I have used it in shows in the past. The only difference being that if I'm doing a show that doesn't have live video projection, it is just a little bit smaller, which I think makes it perfect if you're doing table hopping or that sort of thing. But I'm primarily on stage these days. So for me, it just stood out that little bit more. And I do like that once you've done what you need to do, it's clean. People could sit and stare at it. You don't need to worry about what you're doing with your hands, that sort of thing. So I really enjoy that aspect of it. I suppose an honorable mention there, by the way, for something I have used before, is literally using uh Jay Sankey's old paper clipped. That still works, and it works really, really, really well. So I mean you don't have to go and and buy the prop and do the same thing, a little paper clip, and I did for for many years on a little string.

SPEAKER_02: 24:04

Well, yeah, paper clipped is absolutely superb. Now, in terms of the routine that you're performing with this, is this a callback moment? Is it something that's running throughout your routine? Um, or is this just a literal here's here, there's the card, bang, it's in there?

SPEAKER_00: 24:22

No, I tend to use it as a callback. I don't really do any versions uh with a deck of cards of uh mystery card, like cards impossible location. I've done cards wallet and that sort of thing, um, but I've I've never really done it like it's been in the box the entire time. But I usually use it for a mentalism principle. Not that it doesn't work, it works and it works really, really well. And I've seen other magicians on stage melt people's heads with it as well. I think it's brilliant. It's just not really my style. I think my reason for that is if I'm doing a show where there's a lot of mentalism and I'm trying to convince people that a prediction has been inside a balloon or has been inside a big chest the entire time. The last thing I want people thinking is that I can get a playing card into a box that's been there the whole time. I I think it's it's too close, and it maybe gives away that that might be the same sort of thing. So I try not to do that wherever possible. I possibly am overthinking that, but for me, I think it's just it's it's just a bit too close.

SPEAKER_02: 25:19

Okay, well, that is a great one. And again, like you said, this could be one of your stage pieces. Um so we'll find out at the end, and maybe at the end we'll we'll find out the the different ways that you use it on stage as well, uh, compared to close up. But that leads us into number three. So what did you put in your third spot?

SPEAKER_00: 25:37

Right, number three is impromptu, but I still had to write it down, so I don't actually have to bring anything with me, but I want to do this trick. Are you aware of iCurveball? I think is the name of the trick.

SPEAKER_02: 25:52

Was this an old uh O's Pellman one from many, many years ago? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 25:57

Many, many years ago, and I think it's just one of the best hidden gems. I've actually never seen another magician out gigging it, certainly not in Northern Ireland, and it fries people. Still to this day, it still completely fries people. The simplest method, you know it's going to work. It can't really go wrong unless your audience management is very, very bad. It's going to work. And even times where it does fail, it's fine. Go in, do it again. And I absolutely love it. For those who don't know what the trick is, effectively, you take their phone, scroll through their contacts list, they scroll with the phone turned upside down. So even they don't know which contact they're picking, they stop somewhere, they check the contact they've stopped on. You will know the name of the contact and as much of their telephone number as you would like. And that's actually the bit that really, really gets people. I like to do the name, leave it there, and then maybe just five, ten minutes later, I'll do a couple of other things. I'll go back and have a fun, creative way of revealing the last four digits of that person's phone number. And that it's it's too many levels of impossibility for a lay person to follow. Typically, I'll, you know, maybe have the spectator deal like four piles of cards or that sort of thing, and the four numbers or max the telephone code. That tends to be, I actually find it very, very difficult to do another trick after doing that. And I think it using their phone as well, and there's nothing to go wrong. I still haven't figured out how to do it on Android, so you do need to make sure it's iPhone, uh, iPhone user. Maybe there's a way to do it on Android, I don't know. But anytime I see an Android phone, I start to panic. I think most magicians think that way not too. So that would definitely be my choice. And I don't know how much I paid for that instant download, but it it doesn't owe me a penny. I use it every single show.

SPEAKER_02: 27:41

Like, I I'm fairly sure that was out around the time of BlackBerry's. Um, it is an old, old, old uh download. Now, you mentioned that nothing can go wrong. Is that why you've stuck to this? Because there's so many ways to achieve this kind of effect now. Um, and I would say that that's probably a very manual way of doing that. You'll sort of uh it it it's more like having billets as opposed to uh an electronic pad for it, for example.

SPEAKER_00: 28:13

Which incidentally is what I would typically choose to do. I just think when I'm doing games now, I just I can't take the risk that it isn't gonna work, especially the sort of shows that I'm doing primarily on stage, they're like 20-minute to 30-minute at a push slots where they've booked in, they want the Blue Peter presenter, and I just can't risk something failing. And all I mean, I've used sort of tech stuff in the past, and I suppose this is a tech trick, really. But I mean, the worst that can happen is their phone dies, in which case that's not really your fault, so it's fine. I just know if you're aware of the method that that is going to work unless I do something very, very stupid, and then I've nobody to blame but myself, and I like things that are very much hands-on, and there's loads of amazing ways of doing it, and of course, these days there's incredibly clever methods, which I again I'm not against, I use them all the time. I think they're fantastic, and maybe there's some more of those in the list, who knows? But we have to find out. But this for me, I just know it's gonna work, and do you know what? Whenever I've shown other magicians where they've seen me do it, they're like, How on earth does that fool anybody? But it does, and it really, really, really does. If you work on it and you get the subtleties down, it'll fry people.

SPEAKER_02: 29:26

Yeah, I think it's one of those things with the evolution of method, we think that the older methods are maybe not as good. Um, but the truth is they are just as good, if not better. Like you just said, the manual control of that, knowing that what's happening is you know, you're controlling the outcome of that straight away. Um yeah, I think magicians just over overthink methods sometimes.

SPEAKER_00: 29:52

Yeah, yeah. And I'm so guilty of it as well. I like things to be very, very clever, I really do, and I have had so many complicated ways of doing things, but to Particularly on stage, but I think it's a nice thing, just as well, it's good to have one thing on the list that if you were just on a desert island with nothing but somebody with an iPhone for whatever reason, you could still do something great. And uh particularly now, as I'm not always confident with doing stuff with other people's phones because calculators and that sort of thing, it's nice to have something that does use their phone. And I think anytime you're revealing personal information about somebody, it's always going to be better than a card trick, not always, but most of the time it'd be better than a card trick or something with Ruby's cube. I think when you're dealing with specific things, especially people, amazing. And for me, the best part about that trick is there's a lovely I don't know if this is something that I added or not, but I I love the moment where their phone's not with a person in mind and say, Do you have their phone number saved or is it just an email address? And you know, play dumb little bit. And they don't they don't even know themselves, which is so nice that they can then go and check and it just it disconnects, it's too impossible. So if you can either prove you knew that number beforehand, or if you can somehow get them to pick the number, that's even better. I don't like to just look in their eyes and tell them the code, I like add a little separation if I can.

SPEAKER_02: 31:10

Yeah, that's great. That's such a nice idea. And I think Penguin, uh, which is where this is available, is gonna have a couple more sowers after that because you know so Osperman You're welcome. Great. Well, that leads us to a number four. So, what's in your fourth spot?

SPEAKER_00: 31:28

Right, number four. This is the this is a slightly annoying one for people watching because I don't think this is available to purchase anymore. So sorry, magic shops, we're we're out of luck. But one of my favorite props of all time to do a specific trick is the Kozar pad. This is an add a number pad, which I have, which is now out of production. You could make your own very easily. It's sort of just like any add a number pad, if you know what that is, but for me, it's just so reliable and it doesn't feel nice. It looks like something I'd be happy to have out on stage. I have other versions too, which work really well. There's impromptu versions of that with a stack of billets you can use. Uh, or you know, things like uh Toxic Plus, for example, work really, really well. But I love an add a number pad, not necessarily for just numbers. If I had to pick something to use it for for any sort of add a number principle, it would actually it would be it'd probably actually be switching in either like embarrassing memories or words. And I know Colin Clydes had incredible work on that back in the day, which is where I would have first seen the pads uh in the first place. So if you haven't got yourself an add a number pad, you can't get that one, but do a bit of research. That little device can give you 15 minutes of gold on stage for something that just fits inside your pocket, and I love it so much. I it's just it can't be beat. And it's it's again so simple, it can't go wrong. Like unless you have the world's worst spectator who's gonna really hook around with things on stage with you standing there, which you shouldn't lie, it's gonna work and it's gonna completely baffle people.

SPEAKER_02: 33:07

Yeah, well, I've not heard of the Kozar, uh, but they did release something a few years ago called the Executive Pad, um, which was sort of a version of an older style pad. Um, and without giving anything away, the pen is attached to the pad. Um, and it's uh that method which allows the numbers to magically add up to what you would like them to. Um so I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but why did you go one? Was there a reason that you went for that one in particular?

SPEAKER_00: 33:39

The particular reason I went for that one is it has an advantage the other ones don't, in that it's it looks sort of like a notepad, which means how do I describe this by giving away the method? You have access to more than one page, so the spectator can take and flip back the pages, so you could add a number, five bits of information rather than one, which might not necessarily be useful for numbers, but if you were to get audience information written down, that sort of thing. I'll I'll not say too much, but I will say is one of the best resources for learning about this was Colin McClyde's penguin lecture from years ago. He has a full thing on this, which I'll not teach uh obviously here, but it's just superb. I do it slightly differently, but I think that if there's a mentalist who wants to add something great to their show, you could probably make your own version of the coast or pads. In fact, I know you could, and you could absolutely kill people with that. It's just superb.

SPEAKER_02: 34:34

Well, let's talk about the routine that you're gonna perform with it then. So uh this is sort of a mini devil's advocate. So, how are you using this? Is this part of a larger presentation or is this a standalone uh standout piece?

SPEAKER_00: 34:49

So you could use it for both. What I would use it for if I could only do one thing, probably would actually be a pretty classic out of number, because although it's been done a lot, it still hates. And interestingly enough, I think most mentalists and magicians, including me, tend to go for a phone version where the audience are doing it along. And I love that version. I do just think people have seen it now, and I think people get a little bit suspicious. Uh now there's great. I mean, listen, I'm not hating on it at all because I've done it. I used it to close my last set of shows. Uh, but there's something about it being just a pad of paper which is really, really innocent. So it might just be audience members write down some numbers. I would have them um quickly show them to me, and I would act like I'm adding them up in my head before they can. So it would be a slight competition thing. Maybe I would get it slightly wrong, maybe I would get a bang on, that's hit number one, and then at that point, you have any number of things you can do for maybe it happens to be today's date classic, or maybe you use perhaps crib text to make it a little bit more personal. Uh my favourite use of it, and if I had to pick one, it would be to have that number reveal a pin number from somebody sat in the audience, um, which you have to come up with your own method for getting that info. There's plenty, but maybe there's something later on the list, uh, and that is about as good as it can get, I think.

SPEAKER_02: 36:15

So so far we've had the deck of playing cards, um, we've had the clarity box, eye curve ball, and the uh Kozar prediction pad. Yes. So far, I can't say which one for sure. I think it might be on there, but I think we've probably had at least one so far. I reckon that we have to have.

SPEAKER_00: 36:38

I'm saying nothing. I'm saying nothing.

SPEAKER_02: 36:40

My very, very possibly. Very, very possibly. Great. Well, let's go on to number five then. So, what's in your fifth position?

SPEAKER_00: 36:50

Okay, number five is I would bring, and I'll be specific with this. I don't want to because I don't want these to sell out, and they have done before, but it's okay because I've bought them in bulk. I would bring an absolute metric ton of billets, blank, double-sided blank billets. My favorite ones specifically are from the 1914. They are just they answer all of my prayers for years. I was looking for something like this, and I was making my own billets. Uh, specifically, if I had to do one thing with them, it would be to use. Oh, I always hate talking about this because I still think it's a slightly well-kept secret, but uh, I would use it for Acidus Novice, which, if you know what that is, it's the best thing in the world. I think most of my early career was built off the back of that one move. If you don't know it, go learn it and then don't tell anyone else. Keep keep the secret, keep the secret. It's so good. And I think if you know that, you don't really need to know much else. So I built most of my early career before doing shows publicly and before doing TV, just doing close-up gigs. And the way I used to pitch myself on business cards, it was a picture of me with a big notepad and it had written on it, this guy knows your pin code and pointing towards me. And I used to just go round table to table to table, telling people their bank pins. I don't really do that so much anymore, but you know, you can do you can reveal anything, you know. And I think we sometimes forget the simplicity of just getting somebody to think of something and then telling them what it is in an interesting way. It's hard to follow that again. I I still I use that move all the time, almost every day. If I'm out and about, if somebody asks to see a trick, I will use that method in there somewhere. So if you don't know it, I know there's uh Lucas Navala, some good work on it as well. Hilariously, I spent years because I was just shown by another magician trying to make it as good as it could be. And then I watched Lewis's download and I'm like, oh, he's thought of everything too. So because I I wanted my only and one release to the magic community to be my work on this move, and I'm like, oh, he's already thought of all that greatness. So that won't be coming anytime soon.

SPEAKER_02: 38:52

You well, I think that's a great choice. And one of our previous guests, uh Alexander Marsh, um who's just a fantastic performer.

SPEAKER_00: 39:03

Weirdly, what a coincidence. Imagine that.

SPEAKER_02: 39:05

It was it's all meant to be. That's what it is. Now he was on Blue Peter. Yes, he was. He performed his version of Acidus Novus. So if you watch that, it's very, very good. Um just find that clip and it's like a full circle moment. Um now, why Acidus Novus over you know a center tear or a stack peak or any other kind of peak? Why that one?

SPEAKER_00: 39:34

Yeah, I think you just have to find what works for you, and I know plenty of peaks which I use. Chris Rollins, one of his uh drawing duplication peaks, is one of my favorite things, and I use that all the time too. I think with Aston is novice, I think it might just be the case of it. It happens to be the one that I've done the most. I never particularly like the center tear. I I know it works, and it works well, and some people absolutely kill with it. To be honest, it's probably because I'm lazy and I never put the work in to actually make it good. I think who am I to criticize it as some of the greatest mentalists in the world doing do very, very well with it. It's just not the one I decided to learn. For me, I really, really enjoy that they write something down and it's in their pocket and they know it's there, and there's they can check it afterwards. Because something I have noticed is that the only thing they can leap to, usually with that sort of thing, is it's special pen, there's a camera somewhere, or it's a special piece of paper. So usually when I do it and I perform it on people, especially if I'm doing pre-show, is it's nice you can hand them the card. It is one card, that's all it is. It is a normal pen, which I will leave them with as well, because people do like to take them apart and check. Um, maybe not so much now if your performance is better and they're convinced you're actually reading the mind. I learned that that that tends to help. Uh, but I just like that it's take it, they don't even remember you taking it back, and it happens in such a split second, and if you practice it, you can it's one of those really, really sweet moments when you're doing that trick where you're like, This is unfair, how far ahead I am right now. And you can you can stare at that thing if you needed to, but it just gives you such a nice window to get the information. Um, I think the more you do it and the more you do it, it gives you fine tiny little things that just make it better and better with the way you might want to fill out the cards or the way little subtleties with how you might want to write it on the outside, and you find the fold. So um, yeah, if you don't know it, get yourself a sampling of bullets next time you're watching the TV, sit and fold 200 of them and just get really good at it. And you will thank your future self. No, your future self will thank you. That's a hard one to work out. So that's definitely on my list. I suppose I'm cheating there because I probably needed to add a sharpie into the mix, so it's two things, really, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02: 41:40

I mean, you've already snuck a phone in. Let's let's all be honest. I I didn't point it out earlier, but you've snuck a phone in already. So we'll we'll give you the phone and we'll give you the Sharpie. All right, we'll give you both.

SPEAKER_01: 41:53

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SPEAKER_02: 44:22

Um but it leads us on to number six. So we we've actually gone looking at your list, it's very uh mentalism heavy as well. Yes. Um, so we're we're getting the idea that you're you're swaying more towards the mentalism and not so much the the egg bag. Um, so uh where are we at number six?

SPEAKER_00: 44:42

Well, this one's about to freak you out, then, Jamie, because we're taking a 180 real quick. Okay. Uh wait, on that point, interestingly, before I did Blue Peter, my entire show was mentalism, and whenever I performed at gigs, I pitched myself as a mentalist. The word magician, nowhere ever once was in my marketing at all. It was just that whenever uh lockdown happened, that I realized that it was really hard to get that to play well on camera. And I'd started out as a magician, so I slowly sort of pivoted and realized that that's what I suppose people maybe expected of somebody that looked like me and sort of my age range, they like the magic. So my favorite stuff is mentalism, and that's just the way I like it. With that in mind, have you heard of Crystal Cleaver by Tenyo? Dude, so I have a little story about this. I remember when I was growing up, I was a little magic node and still am. And I used to watch a show every single Wednesday at 12 o'clock, uh, the Wizard Product Review, which I'm sure most magicians here will be aware of, back in the days of uh Craig and Dave, and I used to look forward to that every single week. And most of the time I would have a good idea as to maybe what was going on. And then they performed the crystal cleaver, and I have never been so fooled by anything in my entire life. My my little mentalism brain could not fathom. If you haven't seen the trick, essentially, you got a little stand, you got a little clear box that goes on top of the stand, you set a borrowed ring inside that stand, put a little cover over it, you don't touch it. You put a sword straight through the ring. I can't even describe it. Google it and look at this trick. Maybe you'll work it out right away, but I could not figure this out in four years. And I was like, at the time, you know, no money, I was a teenager, and all my money was going on billets and decks of cards, so I could never justify spending the money on it. Until then, I remember when COVID was happening and I was starting to find tricks that I wanted to do online, and I thought, I wondered if that strip trick still exists. And when it arrived in the post and I saw how that trick worked, I have not squealed it like it in my life. I was the method is just so clever, and it's all examinable as well. You can hand it to someone and they can play with it to Kingdom Come. It's I think it's a magician fool. Lay people love it as well. It's a real puzzle. And whenever people come around the house and I have that thing, I'm dying to show it to them. So I could literally sit on a desert island and just entertain myself with that method over and over again. I love everything by tenure, but that's my favorite.

SPEAKER_02: 47:12

Yeah, I think this is a real nostalgic piece for a lot of magicians. Um, certainly, this is one that I had when I was really little. This must have been like maybe 10-11. Um, it was the first Tenyo trick that I had, followed by um Invisible Zone, but that was Marvin's Magic as opposed to uh Tenyo at the time. Um so it's fantastic. Now we've I think we've spoken about this before. Someone needs to create a full-size stage version of that trick somehow.

SPEAKER_00: 47:42

Do you know? It's funny you say that. I remember whenever I was doing my first television show with DBC Northern Ireland, the director wanted to do that actually, because I was just showing him some bits and bobs, and I was like, oh, look at this. It's silly. And he was like, How would you do that on stage was a big allusion? And I thought, I'm not actually gonna say that because it'll give away the methods, but he he alluded to something, and I thought, yeah, that sounds really expensive to do a full-size version of that. But you know, if Copperfield's watching, get to it.

SPEAKER_02: 48:14

Number one, if if there's someone inside a glass box on a plinth that gets covered up, I want to be that person. Um, because I want to be inside when the magic's happening. Uh, I think that'd be great.

SPEAKER_00: 48:28

It's so good, man. I'm I'm really oh, you know, I can't I was gonna talk about it, so I can't talk about it, but um I'll tell you afterwards, Timmy, there might be there might be something that will interest you with that trick, but I will say just that alone, although it maybe looks cheapy and plastic and silly, I still think that if you really present it as such and you're like, listen, this is not magic, but but this will just very much confuse you. I think people really buy into it and enjoy it. And I think maybe I like the trick more than the general public do, and it maybe it appeals to magicians more than the lay people, but I don't care. This one's for me. I'm being selfish now.

SPEAKER_02: 49:03

Well, that leads us to the tail end. So we've got two more, seven and eight. Uh, it'll be interesting. If you are watching this on YouTube, make sure that you're commenting down below which two you think are in the uh show and Joel show. Um, because so far, I'm gonna just go for Crystal Cleaver and that's it. Um so uh just for me. Let's go for number seven. What's in your seventh spot?

SPEAKER_00: 49:27

Number seven is a wonderful piece of magic, and I couldn't for the life of me remember until I started researching about this what it was called or who it was by, but it is called Timeless by Liam Montier. First time I saw it done was the Ulster Society of Magicians convention, I think back in 2012 when I was still a teenager, and both Josh Vaj and Andy Gladwin came over to do lectures. It was an amazing convention. I think still for me, probably the most special convention because magicians like coming to Northern Ireland and Josh J was there, uh Luke to May, um, Aldo Columbini, um, uh Axel Heckler, they were just all these magic legends and all in one room at the same time. But the standout trick, Anthony Gladwin got up there and he did timeless. And I remember pretending to go to the toilet and going back so that I could at the end of the lecture be closest to the table to make sure I got one of those things. And I did, I was like, whatever, please sell me one of these right now. And for then, I thought there was gonna be some crazy. I'll explain the trick for those who don't know. Essentially, trick's very simple. The way I present it is you take off your wristwatch, you invite somebody on stage, they pull the pin out of the watch and twist it to a random time. If you're smart about it, you can show the different times. I choose not to show the audience the face at any point during the routine, just the spectator on stage. They choose time, memorize the time, and you can then reveal to them what the time is, only for them to find out that the watch has no hands and there's no time at all. And they could go to a jeweler's, they could take that watch apart and they'll find nothing. There is it, it's a normal watch with no hands. Like you, Jamie. I had no idea whatsoever. And the method is one of those ones you just go, ah, it can't be. It can't be, and then you think that's not gonna work, and then you do it and you go, Oh, it does work. It works really, really well. So it's an absolutely excellent piece. I think they've put out new versions of it recently, but the one I'm talking about is this sort of simple white face watch with an old little leather strap, which mine's falling to pieces, holding together a duct tape. Uh, but I just love it so much. And I choose to present it in a way where it's like pseudo hypnosis. So I bring the person up to a couple of little auto-suggestion things and then go into that. And I just think it's wonderful. Big pad of paper, get the time written down, bingo, kick him in the teeth. And if you do happen to do it, one thing I would suggest doing, even though you run the risk of losing the prop and it getting a bit beat up like mine is, is let the watch get passed around the room afterwards because people really enjoy loving and seeing it, and there's always some skeptical person that will sit and try and twist the little thing to try and get the talent to come back on, and they're gonna find nothing. So, yeah, it's a great thing. If I was doing a big run of shows again now and I find out that you could get those, I would I would buy one for every night and give it away as a supervenir, it's just awesome.

SPEAKER_02: 52:22

Yeah, it's such a wonderful trick, and um I love the idea that you're using it for pseudo-hypnosis, I think that's really smart. And I remember many years ago, um, I work for Alakazan now, so this is really bad because I know it's an Alakazan trick, um, but it's a very old one. Um, and the the idea is that you would have someone close their eyes and you say to them, So uh essentially in a minute you're gonna look at a card from this deck of cards, um, and I just want you to log it in your mind, right? So close your eyes. So they close their eyes and you show the audience that you switched the deck for a blank deck very, very openly. Um, and then you get the person to hold the cards in the hand, they break open at one point, they see a card, and you say, So, do you see a card? And they say yes. So you look confused. The audience are thinking, What? You say, Great, well, close your eyes again. You take the deck off them and show that they're blank. So you get this lovely pseudo pseudo-hypnotic thing. And I feel like that's almost what you've done with this. It's almost like, Can you see the time there? Really? You can.

SPEAKER_00: 53:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 53:27

I'm gonna let the audience see this. Uh, just don't look back at the camera. You guys see what this looks like. Okay, this is this is what what she's seen, fine. Uh, then put the watch down. So I love the idea of it being used for pseudo hypnosis.

SPEAKER_00: 53:42

Dude, it's something I used to just always keep in my case for any corporate show I do. If I was doing or a theater show, if I was doing any real hypnosis, I always like to have something that makes you look like it has still worked, even if for whatever reason it happens to fail that night and you don't knock them out, the hands don't stick together. It's okay. She goes oh, interesting. Do you know what we'll try this instead? And you just have something which still appears to be hypnosis, even if it's not. So uh I really, really enjoy it. I think it might go that might go in my top top three tricks of all time. Actually, I love it so so much. And you don't see a lot of people doing it either. It's quite rare to quite rare to see. I will say as well, if you want to do like a more suggestion-based thing, you can be clever with your scripting. And I I can't even remember what I say. Oh, I used to talk about my tooth herding and stuff like that, and then 230, and there are lots of things in there that you could backtrack and say very ripoff Darren Bryan back in the day when I was doing that routine. But uh yeah, there's so much you can do with it. And yeah, I think there are recent versions that have come out that I haven't checked those out yet. So I'm going with the classic. Thanks, Liam.

SPEAKER_02: 54:45

Yeah, it's a great trick. I'm glad that you put it in there now. Um, I feel like a bit of a magic detective in this episode, which I've I've not had before, because I'm still trying to work out which tour in your show. Now, anyone who's listening that were were listening uh tentatively to what you just said there, um, with number seven, anyone that was listening would have realized that you said, if I did a run of shows in the future, I would just buy one for each night, which tells me that's likely not in your current show. So I think we've got one out there. I think we got well, and let's all be on Crystal Cleaver, probably not great for stage. So I'm I'm removing both of those. Video projection, yeah. That's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_00: 55:29

I don't I actually don't have video in one of the shows. The theatre doesn't have it, so that's like out the window for that one project. Maybe it's in there.

SPEAKER_02: 55:36

Uh well, I'm I'm going, uh I've got down to five so far. I'm gonna give myself that. Right. Let's find out what's in your final spot.

SPEAKER_00: 55:44

Okay, so in number eight, and as this is the final one, I'm gonna very quickly rattle off a couple of honorable mentions that didn't quite make it to the list, sadly. And I'll go through every single one of them, but those who know will know. Uh, an amaze box would be on there if you ever use one of those. Just quality stuff, use that a ton. Mark Kernstein's Wiki Test, which of course that's I couldn't put it on there because I'm gonna need a phone as well. That thing I use to death. It's the only real piece of tech magic that I actually do. And um and ringleader by Greg Wilson, that would be on there as well. Haven't done that in probably 15 years, but I still think if I was to go back and I was to do table hopping again, I'd be I'd be rinsing nothing. I love it so much. So, but they didn't make the list. Jamie, they didn't make the list because they're not good enough. No, they're brilliant. Number eight is blockhead. Number eight is blockhead. So, for those who don't know what that is, uh at least the way I present it, is you take a very real nail. I like to throw it inside a pint glass and wrap it around in some water, have somebody else take it out, check that it is indeed solid, chuck it in there again, shake it around, make sure it's nice and wet and dripping, it's a nice visual. And I play up to the audience member about them trusting me and how much they trust me, and are they willing to try something and have them hold their hand out flat and I position the nail on their hand, to which I then pull out a gigantic hammer and go to hammer in the hand. I would need to stop. But hilariously, most spectators are fully willing to go along with it with a real nail on their hand, which just goes to show you we have a position of trust in this job. At that point, I say, no, of course, I wouldn't be crazy enough to put that through your hand or my hand, that would be the end of my living. But I can do this, and you proceed to take this nail and hammer it inside your nostrils, straight into the back of your throat, and it just looks gruesome. It looks it just looks crazy, it looks unreal. And the best part is when you get the spectator to pull it out, I get them to pull it out, drop it in the glass, and send it back to them as a souvenir that they will never touch again.

SPEAKER_02: 57:48

That's a great choice. Now, I actually think that's probably the most curved ball from your list because earlier on we spoke about your audience. Obviously, your audience has changed. Um maybe you would have had a broader demographic with your social media, and now you have younger people come into your shows. Now, I personally I don't think I would mind putting this into a kid's show necessarily, with the right warnings, obviously. Uh, but arguably you'd have to put the same warnings for kids and adults uh with this kind of trick anyway. Um, is this one of the ones that you have had to pull, or would you still put it into uh a show that you're currently working on?

SPEAKER_00: 58:30

So, truthfully, actually, it came out of my show for a while. This was one of my staples that I did in every single stand-up gig. Uh, and close up too. Uh close up, not usually with a hammer, but with a spoon, which just it almost is better, I think, as you can really hammer that thing in there. The reason I took it out for a while was I thought that because of what happened during COVID and because people started getting used to the idea of putting cotton swabs and stuff up their nose, that it gave away the method. I find that people still just don't think you'd be crazy enough to do that with a nail. Uh so I've never had anyone guess. People will still believe that that is a collapsible nail or a rubber nail or something like that, and people who know the method will know it's not that. So um I recently started doing it again, just out and about. Um, it's a tricky one to travel with because you know, airport security, but uh, when I can, I like to try and do it, and it still just gets the most freakish reactions of anything. I think since lockdown, it's got even better because people know how uncomfortable that sensation is with just the tiniest little bit of cotton bud, which is a good way to practice. But would I put it in a kid's show? Um yes. Yes, I would. I don't think it's a problem. I think so long as you don't play it that you're in absolute crisis pain, which is never how I'd like to play it anyway. I think it's absolutely fine. Give the right warnings. Don't try this at home, try it at somebody else's home, all the usual caper. And actually, I think it could. Be quite funny to do with a kid on stage. I think if you got the right sort of like raucous little kid, it could be really funny watching them even hammer this into your face. One interesting thing is that the first time I saw it done was in Darren's show. I think it was um something wicked This Way Comes could be wrong about that. Um, but it's one of his very early shows, and I saw it and I went, Oh my good lord, how on earth and I learned it from Brian Brushwood off scam school, is where I first saw it, and I was like, There's no way that is how that's done. What I didn't realize, my best guess is that the the hammer that Darren might have been using might not have been quite as heavy as the one that I was using for my parents' garden shed. So I was doing this trick with the heaviest hammer. I'm wondering why I was getting nosebleeds when I rehearsed this thing all the time. So I I will say if you're gonna learn this thing, go easy on yourself. It's one of those moments when you're rehearsing, you're like, why am I why am I who am I trying to impress with this? What am I doing? But I just think it's so good. And I know Mark Spellman has work on it as well. I've seen him do it. I I think he might use two nails or something, I'm not too sure. Uh, but just feels awesome. And for the right person, I think it's great. Plus, it at the time when I was doing it more and more, I had a whole bunch of piercings in my face. So I used to have a routine with that where I talked about, you know, you had the piercing status, and they got I got so used to them, I don't even feel pain from anything sharp anymore. And I used to have a septum ring, and it used to just look nasty whenever the nail would go in and it would sort of like link in with a septum ring. Really, really fun.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:26

And you mentioned Mark Spellman. Um, if you are looking at doing this, uh, I know that we are Anakazam and this is an Anakazam podcast, but just on a personal uh point of view, this is something that I'm uh aiming to put into uh scary spooky shows, basically, and his teaching on it is by far the most comprehensive, um, the the best in terms of safety, doing it in the right way, in the right settings. Um, and you mentioned he he used to put a whole group in in his face. Um, so you know, no one has more experience than why he looks so young.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:02

Yeah, that's like some sort of weird looks maxing thing. It's it's giving him youthful energy. I don't know. I'm gonna find out what he's doing one day. He looks too good. It's the weirdest kind of acupuncture I've ever seen in my life. Um that that's one by the way that I refuse to do anymore. You know, the old acupuncture through the hand. Used to do that a long time until I did hit the wrong point in my hand and I couldn't do the rest of my gig. So yeah, obviously goes without saying for anyone listening, if you're under 18, don't go and do that trick. For goodness sake, do it. It's it's not worth it. But I enjoy it. And one little tip, but I'm not sure if this is mine, or I think it might be something I added, but it was so many years ago. There was a great moment I loved when I did it on stage, which was I would have some bandages on the table beside the hammer and the nails, and just as I go to pick up the bandages to hand the spectator before going in the hand, when the bandages fall over off the table, they're just smeared in blood. And it's just a little thing that I really enjoy. I I probably got that now I'm thinking about it from Darren's old um psychic surgeries. Um, where I imagine younger me picked that up from, but it's a nice little moment.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:04

Yeah, that's such a great idea. Now, we are at the end of your list, so I'm just gonna quickly revisit it quickly. So we had the deck of playing cards, but a special kind of deck, uh, preferably Night Flights from uh the wonderful Steve Della. We had the Clarity Box, Eye Curve Ball, the uh Kozar Prediction Pad, we had Billets, of which we would use it for Acidus Novus. We had Crystal Cleaver, we had Timeless, which is a phenomenal trick, and we ended with Blockhead. Now, hopefully everyone has guessed which two. I'm gonna I'm gonna go for which two I think are in your show. So I don't think blockhead would be in your current one, although you said you don't wouldn't have a problem with kids coming to the show. Um Crystal Cleaver, I don't think, would be in it just for the size necessarily. Um I think you mentioned having someone come onto the stage with Timeless. So I'm gonna I'm gonna keep Timeless in the one that I think you've put in and I'm gonna put the prediction pad in there as well. So I'm gonna go for uh I'm gonna go for Timeless and the Kozar prediction pad. Let's see how I did. Very, very good guesses and sadly incorrect, Jamie Dallas.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:20

I'm so sorry. I'm so but I think it's slightly unfair in that, of course, any of the tricks I've named there, I would have no problem putting in the new show at all. It just happens actually that both of the tricks that you went for were in my last run of shows, and so I'm not I can't there'd be a lot of repeat people back in Northern Ireland, so I'm not doing it. What I am actually doing is what origin, well, I'll say the first one. The first thing is that I am using Acid as Novice in the stage show for one moment to get me into David Penn's wonderful pie revelations. That's a routine that I'm using in the show, which I haven't done on stage before, but I've done close up for a long time. So if you know what that is, I'm sure you can imagine why I might want to use Acid as Novice for that. And again, I have all the fancy pads and electronic things I like that I know that that number is gonna be there and it's gonna be there every single night where I won't do it. So Acid as Novice is in there, as is um a deck of special cards from Steve Della that's in there as well. Actually, for a massive big section of the show, I had a rule for many years, which was no card tricks on stage because I just did it so much close up and I thought people they don't want to see a card trick on stage, but I've changed my tune on that, and there's a good 20 minutes just with one deck of cards in the stand-up stage show now, um, which is exactly as I said, it's a lot of mnemonica stuff. So hopefully no late people are watching this and coming to see the show, that'll give away a big deal of the plot. I I will say though, I'm I'm don't might be sneaky here, a little bit sneaky. I might throw blockhead in there. I'm just not sure yet. Um, it's only a quick five to six minute thing, it'll depend how the first show goes, see how we do for timing. But I have a really nice routine I'm working on there, which is a slightly different approach to using blockhead. Um, so effectively, um I suffer from something known as psychosomatic pain, which means as I speak right now, I've had chronic back pain for probably about five years at this point. I've been in the hospital with it before, couldn't figure out what it was, scans, and as it turns out, I have what they call ghost pain or psychosomatic pain. So there's nothing wrong with my back, but I have a crippling level of pain to where there's days I haven't and I've been on set with blue pita where I haven't been able to walk or bend over, which I have to really see for it. It's got really, really bad until I worked out that it was psychosomatic pain I've been treated for, and I'm pretty much 95% better now. Uh but I use that and I explain how that works as a justification for how I'm able to do a lot of things and turn the pain sensors off in my head, which is what you have to learn to do with deal with psychosomatic pain, is you have to be able to feel pain sensations, realize that pain is an illusion, and it is a lot of the time, not in all cases, but in a lot of cases and mine, it was it's a true story. So I'm gonna link the two in together like that, and I've got all the graphics and all the props. There's a great story about a nail going through a boot that's a real story, and a guy being in agony pain who need to find out it went between his his pinky toe and his other toe, and it wasn't a real pain. The brain, it's a whole big sort of psychological piece. But I really want to put it in the show. But just as you said, I'm not sure if eight-year-olds are going to appreciate that. So it might be something that I do underline, but I really want to put it in the show by the end of the month. We'll see.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:38

Wow, I think that's such a great hook. Uh, and I think there's so many avenues you can go down. My concern for you would be how do you know the difference between psychosomatic pain and real pain? Um, because then you could tell yourself that the pain is not real, but then that is something that you need to get to the hospital for.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:58

It's really difficult to work out. And I went to I've never actually spoke about this ever anywhere publicly. The last two years have been okay, but for three years prior, I really was in a pretty bad, bad way uh because my back pain was so bad. My dad has it as well. It it tends to be something that can be passed down. Um I went to doctor after doctor after doctor and physio after physio, and none of them could tell me why I was experiencing such pain. And it's hard. I mean, people who have chronic pain don't like to be told it's all in your head, but that is the the only way to sort of describe it as someone who hasn't felt it. But my gosh, pain is set off in your body the same way whether it's real or not. So it's why you'll find amputees, for example, who can still feel like they have pain in their arm, even though their arm's not there. It's called ghost pain sometimes. The only way that I was able to figure it out was that it moved around so much and it would be painful one day and not painful the next, which is not how a real injury operates. Uh a real injury would heal. So uh there was a great guy called Dan Bugliero online uh that my friend, actually a magician buddy of mine, had the same thing. Um, great guy, he worked with Julius Dean for a long time, but he had very, very bad pain in his hands. He went and got the stem cell replacement, everything, nothing worked until he discovered uh that he had psychosomatic pain, and I was completely fine. So he actually put it on to me in the first place, and it just so happened to be that's what it was. So I still get it now and again, and if I talk about it for a long time, it kind of makes me giggle because I'll start to feel my back hurt, but I it just doesn't it doesn't bother me anymore, it doesn't stop me doing anything. But for the first couple of years of Blue Peter, it was it was pretty rough. Although it was I just got this dream job and suddenly I was struggling to bend past like this position without being in crease, increasing pain. So I'm very lucky that I've managed to get out of that, and uh yeah, hopefully it remains that way.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:43

Well, I'm glad to hear that you're you're sort of on top of it now, and it's it's maybe not as bad as it was. Um, but it's just a fascinating thing, anyway. Is it's just something that maybe a lot of people haven't heard of. So yeah, I well, I think it's an interesting hook for for that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:00

Yeah, it would be distilling that pile of waffle I just gave you into a succinct sentence or a couple of sentences to try and make that a thing. So I don't know, but uh it's something that's quite important to me. And in my shows, I don't really talk too much about me, but it's something I do want to talk about because there's a lot of people that actually have that disorder with psychosomatic pain and I don't even know they have it. And I always said if I got out of it, I would tell as many people as I can. And I didn't really fulfill on that promise because I mean who do I tell? Like it's not something you just chuck up necessarily on blue peters, so uh yeah, but no, doing doing way, way better now. And I think uh for all if anyone is watching and they do happen to have had like back pain, for example, for 10-15 years, and there's a lot of people more than you think. Uh look up that guy Dan Buglio on YouTube, he really, really helped me out all for free as well. I spent a lot of money on physio, a lot on acupuncture too.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:51

Just thinking, uh, we're go going off on a tangent at this point, but um thinking about uh the there's the old experiment where you have the divider and you have the fake arm. So that would be an excellent way to get into it because you would also have the hammer, so you'd have your audience member up there, put their arm out, and then you talk about psychosomatic pain, you do that as your demonstration of what that is, what get they get a reaction, and then you take out the nail and use the hammer to then put that into into your nose.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:23

Dude, you might have just convinced me to put this in my show at the end of the month, and and if I do, I will film and send it and I will give you credit on stage if you're happy for me to use the idea of that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:32

Of course, splendid. There you go. And uh anyone else is now gonna be doing it as well. We may may this may just get edited out. Well, that's great, and I'm uh like I say, I'm glad that you're on the on the mend, and it's something for us all to think about as well. But we are on to your final three. Now, obviously, we gave you eight tricks, Joel, but we've only given you one each of these. So let's do the controversial one. What does a blue pita politically correct presenter want to banish onto his island?

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:05

Strap in, lads. No, well, I I will tell you this was the hardest one for me to figure out, you know. This was harder than figuring out the tricks. So I've written down two honorable mentions, which I'll go through very, very fast, uh, but then I'll tell you what I settled on. Uh, one of the things was mentalists doing a mind reading effect only to prove the exact same thing had already been predicted from the start. I think unless that's done in a very, very clever way with a story that makes sense, it just drives you've wasted everyone's time, you know. Come on, it completely undolls all the amazing, uh, all the amazing stuff you've done. Maybe I'm thinking too much like a magician like that, and the general audience don't care. But that and sort of, you know, like the the quadruple revelation of the same thing, it just doesn't make sense to me, and it always grinds my gears when I see so that was that was an honorable mention. Okay, I have my I have my final banishment. My banishment is one specific hackling which is used and I think loved all around the world by magicians, and that is hold out your hands, know the clean one. Oh, wait, that was the clean one. I hate it so much. I hate everything about it when I see a magician doing it. I cringe inside. And the sad thing about it is it is kind of a little bit funny, so I get why people use it, and we're asking people to hold their hands out all of the time. But for me, I tell you what, I tell you why I don't like it. I don't like it because I'm really not a fan of anything in general, which puts the spectator down, even in a jokey way, unless they do it to me first. I'm so on for doing a little heckler back and forth. I've never really had to deal with hecklers too much, and I think the reason that is is because I don't use lines like that. I don't feel like the audience are kind of like waiting to give it to. I've always sort of gone in with the approach of just getting on with everyone, having a laugh. I'm not pretending to be magic and just showing them something funny. So I've never really had to do this battle with the the alpha male of the group. I think just be nice with them, don't flirt with the wife like I see magicians doing, and don't use those hack lines. The reason I specifically don't like that one is I've seen magicians do that line and they've made the joke about hold up your hand, do the clean one. And I'm thinking to myself, bro, if one of the two people right now has a dirty hand, it's not them. Like the guests at this glorious corporate event in a lovely suit, and this magician is rocked in, telling someone they have dirty hands, come on, like it's not, and then it makes you think about like oh dirty hands and handling cards, and we're all sharing this big roast, and it just leaves a sort of inside of my mouth. I don't don't like it terribly much. So I think in general, I'm not a fan of hack lines. I mean, I listen, I have plenty of the classic ones, just the sort of like sillier sides that we've all nicked from the years, and we we have them, but I'm not really a fan of using them unless someone I suppose deserves it. I'll have a couple on stage if someone's not playing ball or whatever, just but it's never done in a like behave yourself I can I'm gonna make fun of you. I just I think that makes it worse for the most part. I mean, and especially for me, I always had to be mindful at events. I'm I'm a very skinny, quite small person, and it never worked for me to go battling against the big guy. That just never worked for me. If anything, uh, I would love to to some magicians uh hand them. This isn't my magical choice, but hand them, you know. What's that old book? I haven't read it in years. Oh, uh how to win friends and influence people. I'd love to give them that and be like, learn that instead of the hacklines. You don't you don't need them, just be nice and you're not gonna have to use them. But uh yeah, I mean some some of them have age quite badly. Maybe it's a sign of the times. Don't get me wrong, the right performer can probably get away with it and kill with it, but for me, it just it wouldn't work, it wouldn't make sense.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:51

Well, on your island, everyone has clean hands, so there's no point in even mentioning unclean hands, all right? So we don't have to worry about that anymore. Now we're on to your last two items. So, what is in your book position, Joel?

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:05

Oh, okay, so again, long and hard to think about. I nearly picked Maximum Entertainment, uh, which I think is a great book, most magicians should read, but that's not the one I'm gonna pick. Uh, I also love, before we begin, Assi Wynn's book. I thought that was brilliant, but I haven't picked that one. I have picked a book that I haven't even read yet. And I'm gonna tell you why. I thought about this. If I was stuck on an island, firstly, I'd like to have the novelty, a one I know is brilliant, but I just haven't read yet, that I have that I already own, so I can bring it right to the island. But I've had quite a number of magicians get including uh Richard Young, actually, and told me you specifically need to read this book. And it's Darren's latest uh notes from a fellow traveler. I have the book, I have it sitting right there in the bookshelf, and I've got the old fancy version, you know, that hardback side one is big big flex, you know, flip that on eBay. But uh from what I've heard, it's just a masterful thing, and there's not a lot of magic books that I want to read that I haven't yet. Most of the time, if I want to, I just go ahead and do it, or I'll get it on a PDF or something. But I'll go on record and saying that I think, in my opinion, I think Darren's the greatest alive. I think it everything he does is just splendid, as we talked about before the show. I'm seeing him next week. So anything that he has put in a book specifically for magicians wanting to put together a show, I can't see how that's not gonna be really, really valuable. And that's why I'm gonna pick it. So I think that speaks highly of him that I'm choosing it without even having read it. But yeah, I think who's gonna disagree with picking a Darren Bryan book?

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:37

Well, I think it's more the idea that you you've already said that you have seen his shows growing up, so you already have that affiliation with him and his work. Um but it's also someone who's been there and done that, right? And you are now doing the same thing. You've now got your uh uh well, your second show, I think you just said, um, that you're doing. Uh so to you know that that book's gonna be full of gems from someone that's been there and done it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:08

Um just as a writer in general, Jamie. I think it's really lovely to read. I've read all his other books as well, and there's a lot of real wisdom in them, too. So I like the way he writes. Uh, I think it'd just be an enjoyable experience. Sit through that. The book looks gorgeous, it's nice, it would look well on the desert island, the sort of sandy brown colour blend in very, very beautifully, I think. I will say as well, for anyone who's watching this, I can talk a bit on the here, which I'm not allowed to talk about public domain, but I can hear because it's magicians. Is if you want a good laugh, keep an eye on British TV because I was on that show Celebrity Mastermind recently, and it hasn't gone out yet, but it goes out, I think, in a couple months. And my specialty subject was Darren Brown, and I'll not tell you how I did, but uh but it happened. And I and I picked Darren Brown. Luckily, I didn't have to read that book for my research, they didn't include that in what I what I had to learn. But it says so much about Darren in that I had to literally study him for an exam, basically, and it was the biggest joy ever because everything he's done is just splendid, and I'm sure there's so many magicians that are watching this that wouldn't be if it wasn't for him doing his thing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:13

Wow, I I don't even know if I would go on there with Darren Brown mastermind because I just think there's just so much. He's just had such an incredible career. There must be so much to digest in that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:28

It was vast, and I realized as I was studying for that I had made a big mistake. One of my co-presenters on Blue Peter told me not to pick a person because you have their whole life to look at, so they could ask me anything that was publicly available about him on the internet, any news articles, his books, uh anything on YouTube, which is by the way, all of his TV shows now pretty much live on his YouTube channel, so that was silly. But it was really fun, and the reason I didn't pick it in the end was because I wanted to choose something study that I would actually enjoy the studying process, so at least it wouldn't feel like work, and I really didn't. It was very, very fun. So I did make notes and I did have to read uh uh Confessions of a Conjurer. That was the one book they said. Make sure you read that one. So I read it cover to cover and took notes, and I didn't even get asked any questions from it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:16

Wow, that's a kick in the teeth, isn't it? How mean is that? Heartbreaks. Great book, though. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I know that you're gonna love it. It's a great book. Uh, but it does lead us on to your item. So, in your final spot, the non-magic item, Joel, that you use for magic.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:33

I have it right here. I have it in my hand. I have it right here. The item I would bring, if anything, just for nostalgia, but also some magic uses, I would bring a blue peter badge. It has to be done. I gotta flex. It has to be done. I'll tell you why I picked this, right? Because I had a couple of other things on originally, and then I thought, what am I talking about? I actually had iPhone written there, which I thought, you know, kind of defeats the purpose of being on a desert island. That's not really fair. I had double stick tape on the list at one point because I thought there's loads of great stuff you can use that for for magic. Um, the reason I picked this, this is like the best thing ever. So when you're a repeater presenter, obviously you get one of these, but they'll have me doing magic with on the show sometimes. I might like, you know, make sure you get your badge and make it appear or something like that. These things were made to do magic with. I swear to God, they have the perfect finger indents to stick something in palm. Maybe not so much. I'm gonna take this big ring off. It's the most comfortable thing to palm of all time because this little divot at the back sits between your two fingers, and then these fingers curl around it perfectly. So it's and no matter where you hold it, it just sits in your hand. You'll you'll not see it. It just looks absolutely awesome. And you know, you can you can go, oh no, I haven't done it right. There has to be the other way around. You my hands are a little bit slippy, right? But the old like making it appear that way, it can curve around you and you can pinch it from that way. It's the it's the best thing. So I do magic with this all the time. Specifically, if I meet uh a fan out and about and they have a badge, it's great to be able to take it off them and then you can dump it out of a Sharpie cap, make it disappear. So I do magic with this thing all the time. And even just pulling it out from behind someone's ear, these things make people happy. If you're not from the UK, you'll not necessarily understand that. But if you're in the UK, these things make people very, very, very happy, and it's one of the best parts of the job. So I try to use M magic whenever I'm doing stage magic. If a kid comes up and they are really, really great during the routine, one of these will usually be behind the rear at the end of the trick, and they'll forget to take one home. So I I think I'd be going far wrong if I didn't choose this.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:32

That's great, that's absolutely excellent. Now, uh, I think we've had maybe three or four guests that I can think of that have one. So we had Dean Levy, who has been on uh Blue Peter, we had Alex McElhere, Alexander Marsh. Um, and I think Richard Young as well said that he's been on Blue Peter as well.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:54

Absolutely, absolutely. I'm trying to think there's been so many magicians that have been on the show since I've joined because I can't help but keep inviting people to get to. I just like having magicians in. Um, I will say we also actually took Blue Peter to Blackpool Magic Convention two years ago. We did a whole special on that, which was uh really a silly idea to bring a whole camera crew in. I mean, as if you don't see enough of mad stuff, seeing all these lights and booms being walked around the aisles was great fun. Uh, but I I'm gonna I'll say I think oh it's so hard to choose. Since I've been on the show, the magician that's been on it for me was just the most special, and they've all been wonderful, friends with all of them. But Mario the Maker Magician was on the I think just over a year ago, and it was the most amazing thing. Firstly, his Edinburgh show is what made me want to pitch him. It's the probably the only magician I've actively went out of my way and been like, you have to book this guy to come in and do it live, live on TV. It's extraordinary if you haven't looked up Mario. But for the first time ever, we were live. Mario opened the show and he wanted it to be the first time it was seen by the kids because usually we would say to rehearsal, whatever. He didn't want to do that in front of the kids. He said, I want it to be a surprise, he's a total pro. Came out, gave it the absolute beans, gave one of the best magic performances I've ever seen. And in my earpiece, I heard, Okay, nobody panic. But the last 10 minutes have gone out without any sound. So his entire segment went out with just him going around going crazy, robots, monkeys doing magic, and there was no sound on it at all. I thought, oh my gosh, what are we gonna do? So I knew that what was going to happen is we probably well, we're certainly not gonna stop him in the middle of it, but it's live, remember? So they fixed it probably for the first 30 or last 30 seconds of his act. We then came on out, I did an interview with him, whatever it happened to be. He taught some other tricks, did an amazing job. And then right after the show ended at 5:30, we had to go back and he had to do the whole thing again for the same group of kids to then paste into the iPlayer. And Mario was that good that he did the exact same routine twice and got an even bigger reaction the second time because he just gave it even more energy. So massive wide side anecdote, but that's my favorite magic memory from the show so far.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:09

Wow, that must have been horrendous when it happened, but amazing to see him perform again after.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:16

Yeah, and his act alone is just unbelievable. It's one of the I mean, I've had this a couple times in recent years going to see some great shows, but I genuinely left his show going, What have I been doing? Like this is just the amount of effort and creativity and love and care that goes into every single second of his show is just mesmerizing to me. And every kid felt seen and loved, and the parents loved it as much as the kids. People were cackling and shrieking at the stage, and he brought his very lovely family down. They're just an amazing group of people. So I hopefully have them back sometime if you haven't looked them up. And I'm sure every single person watching this knows Mario knows what he does, but he hasn't, because I didn't until last year. Go check him out. It'll just blow your mind.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26:00

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for that list. Let's go back over it one more time. So we have a deck of playing cards with night flight. So we've got Clarity Box, Eye Curve Ball, we've got the Kozar prediction pad, we've got Billets, of which we're using Acidus Novus, we've got Crystal Cleaver, just for the fun of it. We've got uh Timeless because it's spectacular. We've got Blockhead with your new routine that we've somehow managed to make on this podcast. Thanks, Jimmy. Um your banishment is hold out your hand. No, the clean one. Oh, that was the clean one. Um, your book is not yet read, but we know you're gonna love it. Notes from a fellow traveller, and your item is your very palmable blue pizza badge. What a great list, Joe.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26:42

Oh, thanks, man. I gotta tell you, I get the chance to do a lot of sort of podcasts and stuff with this Java BBC. And uh, you know, obviously the last one I did was was was with Richard Young, which was a complete joy. But this is some of the most fun I've had on a podcast ever. I've loved it and I've loved talking magic. And uh yeah, I hope maybe people listen to it and they find something they haven't used before or too scared to use. They can you can hope through the bottom drawer, find something and and get it back out again.

SPEAKER_02: 1:27:11

Well, it's been a joy having you on here. And I mean, I know everyone's gonna go and check out iCurveball um because that's very accessible. And I know that uh David Copperfield's team is listening right now and is already in pursuit of putting the the plans together for Jumbo Crystal Cleaver. So I think we've started something. We've started something now. Joel, you mentioned that you've got your show going on. So uh if people want to come and see your show, if people want to find out more about you, your socials, all of that good stuff, where can they go to?

SPEAKER_00: 1:27:41

So the best place to go is Instagram. I've I've got like TikTok and YouTube and all the rest, but I just use that to post not as a social platform and I don't promote anything on there. So uh if you happen to want to see my show, I'll usually do a run every single year. It might be too late by the time this one comes out because I think the Belfast ones are selling out, which is good. But you can come see me next year and just follow me on Instagram at it's Joel M, which is my name, at it's Joel M. And I love chatting to magicians, so if you've watched the show and you just want to chit-chat or ask a question or whatever, please just do it, do DM me. It used to be the case where I had management and stuff logged in there, and that was all for us. It's me now. So we're all a little tight-knit group here, and I'd love to speak to anybody who wants to talk to me. So do shoot me a message and uh let me know what you think of my list. Is it terrible? I hope not.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:31

So no, it's it's I can already tell them that they're gonna think it's great. But I also want to plug on your behalf um your other podcast that you you did that we've spoken about a couple of times, because if you want to find out more sort of about Joel's background and maybe some of his thoughts on magic and how he's got to where he is, all of that good stuff, it's a really, really good listen. I really enjoyed listening to it, and it will give you kind of a this one is quite trick focused, uh perhaps, and and you know, uh performance focused, whereas that sort of gives a really interesting background to where you've come up and and how you are where you are now.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29:11

Yeah, 100%. Well, thank you. And yeah, shout out to that podcast. That was a whole lot of fun uh as well. Honestly, dude, genuinely dude, thanks so much for asking me to come on. I've as I've said to you before, enjoyed listening to the show. So I was dead excited when I got the message, and yeah, it's just been a really fun time. Time has flown by as well. I've been chatting a good good little while here. So thank you for sitting listening to all my anecdotes and making them making it seem like you find them interesting. So I appreciate that. Have a really, really good time.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:40

Now, it really is a really interesting list, and of course, we can now look forward to seeing you on Mastermind and seeing just how well or bad you did uh with your Darren Brown uh special.

SPEAKER_00: 1:29:52

I wouldn't worry so much about the Darren Brown stuff, is all I'll say. It's more the general knowledge. Us magicians aren't always the most well versed in, you know. General iTunes. That's a big generalization that just applies to me. But yeah, the watch, it should be good fun. And hopefully I made Terren proud. But uh yeah. Other than that, I would say the only thing to do is if you're watching this, you've never seen Blue Peter, we're back on as of today. It'll be on in 40 minutes. It'll be too late for that. But uh we're back on Fridays at five o'clock. So if you want to see a magician and support a magician on the telly, that's the only other place you can you can catch me every Friday. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:25

Well, thank you again, Joel. Thank you for taking the time out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:30:28

Oh man, thank you so much. And I hope to see you uh not on our desert island but soon at a magic convention or something like that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30:35

100%. And of course, thank you all for listening. We'll be back next week with another episode. Do go check out Blue Peter, do go buy tickets to Joel's show if it is near you. Hopefully, it will be a much bigger tour going forward, and he'll be down by all of us, and we can go and support him. Um do also go check out some of those tricks on there. Of course, we mentioned iCurve Paul, it is on Penguins, do go check it out. Steve Della, of course, he is a former uh desert island maybe escapy at this point, I don't know. Um great. We've never thought about that. Are all of the magicians that we have all on the same island? Are you just gathering as as we go on?

SPEAKER_00: 1:31:18

I'm collecting them, yeah. And I'm just gonna sit them down and force them to come up with a better show for me than I could come up with myself, like you've done on this podcast. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31:27

Amazing. Well, thank you all again. We'll be back again next week with another episode. But until then, have a great week, guys.

SPEAKER_01: 1:31:36

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