Desert Island Tricks

Ben Sidwell

• Alakazam Magic • Season 2 • Episode 40

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What if the strongest magic isn’t about flashy props, but about influence, structure, and respect for your audience? We sit down with magician Ben Sidwell to map an eight-trick card set that’s lean on gimmicks and heavy on intention, designed to scale from a noisy bar to an intimate parlour room without losing clarity or impact.

Ben opens with influence-forward thinking, why “Anything” by Ben Williams plays better as a persuasion piece than a mind read and shows how Jay Sankey’s Paperclipped anchors predictions in an ordinary business card. We dig into wallet philosophy and why reframing “card to wallet” as “it was always there” preserves fairness while turning a daily-carry Orphic wallet into a quiet powerhouse. The conversation then pivots to skill-as-theater with Card to Pocket, where teaching palming mid-routine raises suspense instead of exposing secrets, because the frame is honest: this is a demonstration of timing and control.

The Chicago lineage becomes the spine of his closer. Chicago Opener flows into Anniversary Waltz to transform an odd-back snag into a fused, impossible souvenir, fuel for repeat bookings and lasting memories. We expand the scale with spectator-led coincidences like Paul Wilson’s C3 and nods to Woody Aragon and Ben Earl, leaning into that “how could that happen?” feeling that reads mysterious without claiming skill. A final curveball, Chris Ramsey’s Voodoo, brings a touch of the bizarre: a signed blank card as a sympathetic link, a burned proxy, and a scarred signed selection waiting in the deck the audience guarded.

Along the way, Ben banishes a habit too common in our scene: forcing magic on people who don’t want it. Consent beats ego. His book pick, John Guastaferro’s One Degree, champions small upgrades, like remembering names, that lift reactions. And his non-magic essential, an X-Acto knife, proves why practical tools keep live shows resilient.

If you love card magic that feels honest, plays big, and leaves spectators with souvenirs and stories, this one’s for you.

Ben’s Desert Island Tricks: 

  1. Anything 
  2. Paper-clipped 
  3. Opening Act 
  4. Card to Pocket 
  5. Chicago Opener 
  6. Anniversary Waltz 
  7. Con Cam Coincindencia
  8. Voodoo 

Banishment. Forcing magic on people 

Book. One Degree

Item. Exacto Knife 

Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk

SPEAKER_01:

There's a lot of arrogance in the magic community, a lot of egos. There are magicians that think they are so good and they think they're the be's knees. And what they do is they force magic upon spectators, even when they don't want to see it. I don't perform unless I'm asked to. If I even if I'm out in a bar or a pub and, you know, I don't perform at all. I'll have something on me in case somebody goes, Ben's a magician, do a trick for this person. And it's doing yourself a disservice, really, because if you're doing a trick that you don't necessarily want to perform and they're watching a trick that they don't necessarily want to watch, what's the point? It comes down to magicians just trying to feed their ego.

SPEAKER_02:

He is really making waves in magic. He is a regular performer at Houdini's in Canterbury. Over here, we've spoken about Houdini's uh several times on the podcast. And now he's actually at the magician's table in London. So the magician's table, if you don't know what it is, is an immersive magic experience in the middle of London. Had the opportunity to do it a few months ago. It is absolutely phenomenal. So if you do want to see today's guest, please try and see him there. It's a great night out, and it's great for us all to support it. But I did talk about him doing some magic with us. Now, he's regularly trending in the top 10, even though he only has two tricks on Unlimited. So that is what he did with us. I should have probably said that at the beginning. He actually has two tricks with us on Unlimited. Now, both of these tricks are, like I say, constantly trending, and that's because they are two absolutely phenomenal tricks. And I actually just said to him a few days ago I was at a magic function and someone actually showed me a screen grab of their show where they were performing one of his tricks. The two tricks that he has on Unlimited is Cryptic and Chicago Wartz. I'm a big fan of Chicago Warts. I think it's super, super clever thinking, taking two classic routines and merging them into this really clever, clever routine. So I really think today's list is going to be interesting. Please do go check out those two tricks on Unlimited because they are both phenomenal and he really deserves your support. So today's guest, of course, is Ben Sidwell. Hello, Ben.

SPEAKER_01:

Hello, Jamie. Thank you. Those are very nice words. I don't think everybody anybody has ever said anything so nice about me before. So ignore what everybody else says. Let's go with what Jamie says.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, those two tricks, you did them with us, I want to say it was about a year ago, maybe just over a year ago now. And both of them regularly trend. I think it was cryptic is the one that lots of people do a version of in their show. It was really, really clever thinking. And I'm hoping that's not the only thing that we've seen from you. I'm hoping we can steal some more of your thoughts in the future.

SPEAKER_01:

You never know, maybe.

SPEAKER_02:

Hopefully. Now, what sort of magic do you tend to perform, Ben?

SPEAKER_01:

So I would say card magic. Um, but the longer I do card magic, I also find myself going down the mentalism avenue. Um, and a lot of tricks and potentially a lot of tricks that you see in my list are are card tricks with sort of mentalism methods and routines. Um because I like sort of merging the two.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, we can see that with um Chicago Waltz, the the way that you've managed to merge those two together. And I actually think that one of the one of my favourite magicians uh who does that spectacularly is Liam Montier. He's so good at taking two different methods and plots and finding ways to sort of conjoin them and link them together to make them so much more than the sum of the parts. And I think that's what you tend to do. I think you're really good at seeing different plots and turning them on the head and making them into something really unique.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I I mean I'm a big fan of routining. So when I perform, it's not just trick after trick, it's something that should hopefully flow with a sort of start, middle, and an end. Um so even when I'm doing close-up just to a uh a small table for five minutes, ten minutes, it should hopefully give off the impression that it's like a mini show that flows and everything merges and is quite nicely routined. Well, that's the my aim, anyway.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I know in uh Houdinis you sort of have to do a parlor-y set anyway, so you're you're almost having to take these close-up tricks and make them much bigger, and again, that's what cryptic is. You know, it's a close-up trick which you really cleverly turn into this parlor stage piece.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, um, well, speaking of cryptic, I I I teach it using a business card and flipping it on uh using a camera. But I uh when it comes to a parlor setting, I do it on a whiteboard with a piece of sort of perspective, um, and that sort of gives off the same effect because you can flip the perspex like a window, and that that gives off the same effect. So in a parlor situation, that's that plays off quite big.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so if this is your first time joining us, the idea is that we're about to maroon Ben on his very own magical island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks, banish one item, take one book, one non-magic item. Uh so let's go there now. Let's find out what Ben has taken to his island. Ben, what's in position number one?

SPEAKER_01:

In no particular order. Well, actually, I say that there is kind of a particular order because this is number one for a very good reason, and that's because I perform it all the time, and that is Anything by Ben Williams. Basically, you go into this demonstration of the difference between mind reading and influencing. And Jamie, for example, if you were to name any word in the English dictionary, what would that word be?

SPEAKER_02:

Pineapple.

SPEAKER_01:

Pineapple. Obviously, there's no way I could know that you were gonna say that because I cannot read your mind, right? Um, but I can influence you. And you would go down this avenue of being able to influence someone using, you know, playing cards, stuff like that. Um, and the ending is you have this open prediction the entire time, or any kind of prediction that says you influenced that word pineapple. So it's not a mind-reading routine, it's an influencing routine. And I love that plot, I love that idea. Um funny story about Ben Williams, really. The first time I met him, it was in Blackpool, say about three or four years ago, and we were in the Ruskin, of course, and it got to that point of the night where you stop talking about magic and you start getting severely drunk. Um, and Jake Allen had introduced this stupid game called um the cup game, and as the name suggests, it uses a cup. And okay, you either know the cup game or you don't know the cup game. That's kind of a thing, right? There's a secret rule to this game. And at some point, Ben Williams got roped into this game, and let's just say he didn't know the cup game, and he was getting so frustrated that he he couldn't work this game out. Um, and it got to the point where we said to him, You don't even need to use a cup, you could use anything. And I pulled out a Sharpie, and for those of you who perform anything, there's a specific kind of Sharpie you need, um, and it's it's got a specific mark on it. He teaches a way to mark it, and it was not probably not the first person to mark it, but he noticed that mark, and he was like, That's my trick. And at the time, I didn't put two and two together and realised I was playing this game with you know the creator of this trick I perform all the time. But when the penny dropped, I was like, Yes, it is. Uh, and as sort of my way of saying thank you to him for creating this trick, I told him the rule to the cup game, and he was very smug and he was very proud of himself that he could now do it, do this game and be part of the sort of cup game in a circle. Uh, and and yeah, the rest is history. I've done a few gigs with him since, and I've had to cut anything out of my set just because he's uh performing in the same room as me, which is in the nicest way possible annoying. Um, but yeah, it's what it's one of my favourite tricks. Probably go to. I perform it all the time, and it has so many applications because it genuinely can be anything, it can fit into anyone's routine because it can be about anything, and I think it's yeah, it's it's pretty genius.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think it's a great entry at number one. Now, we've gone in with a mentalism piece, which you sort of said it was card mentalism, was your set, so it's sort of following suit.

SPEAKER_01:

I I could the cards are used in the process of this trick, it's framed as a card trick, but the kicker is I influenced you to say this word.

SPEAKER_02:

Amazing. Well, that's a great choice in at number one. Let's see where we're gonna go with at number two. So, what's in your second spot?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, so I'm a big fan of just like anything, this sort of one-a-head idea. Um that as a as a method, but also as a as a routine, I love open predictions. Okay, and I think anything and this come hand in hand together because I think uh Ben's version, I think he has card to shoe. I think that's how he teaches it. Whereas for this, I I have an open prediction, I have a folded up paperclipped business card. Uh so my second entry is paperclipped by Jay Sankey. I think one of the best uh tools, or I guess is probably the best thing to call it, or utility device. I I don't really know what you would call it. Um, but yeah, I think it's the one of the best open predictions, one of the best mystery cards, one of the best cards from impossible location, and it's one of the most affordable as well. There's a lot of mystery boxes on the market. I think it's so it's way more natural than, for example, the boxes on the market, especially in a walk-around environment. If I'm gigging, I don't want necessarily a box in my pocket. Uh, and I also think if you pull out a box, immediately there's a connection that it's a it's a trick box. Uh, or there's something fishy about it, even if it looks like a to be fair, they don't look like anything, unless it's that tic-tac box one, which I would say is probably quite natural. But a paper cli a paperclip card, you can't mistake that for anything more than what it is, and that's exactly what all it is as well. There's no trick there, but if if somebody wanted to inspect it, they could, as long as they don't open it.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so if we're all playing Ben Sidwell Bingo, we now know from your first two that you're and from what you just said, you're a fan of organic style routines. So I'm guessing that your set by and large is gonna be quite minimalist in props. Um, organic props, we're gonna assume that you have uh going forward and maybe kind of um impromptu feeling performances where it just feels spontaneous. I think that's where we're gonna go.

SPEAKER_01:

I think you've got the nail on the head there. Um I'm a big fan of if you can do it gimmickless, do it. Um, I think maybe that comes from a gigging background where I don't want to have to carry loads of different decks of cards, different gimmicks, different wallets, that kind of thing. So if I can find a way to just have a deck of cards, have a pen, a few business cards, and a wallet, and be able to do an hour's worth of magic, do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, so what's in uh position three, Ben?

SPEAKER_01:

So number three is a trick called opening act by John Armstrong, and essentially it is you have spectator one think of a card, spectator two guesses that card, and nine times out of ten they are wrong, but that's okay because they're not the magician. As the magician, you then find their card, the card that spectator one was thinking of, and the kicker of the trick is that spectator, the card that spectator two guessed is the card that you keep in your wall. Um, and again, it's this sort of one-ahead idea. Um and there's a few things to talk about there. I'm a big fan of card to wallet, but not in the sort of traditional sense. I I don't love the idea of having a signed card then appear in your wallet, but I like it more when it's framed as it's already been in my wallet. So if you if you went down the route of there's a missing card in this deck, um and the missing card is in my wallet, I just so happen to keep it in my wallet, it just so happens to be the card that you named. So sort of that, or or I have a lottery ticket in my wallet, and on the back is a prediction, as if it was always supposed to be there instead of it appearing there. Um, and that's what this trick does, um, because you can frame it as if I have a missing card, I keep it in my wallet, it's the card that you named. Um, and Garrett Thomas has a similar kind of trick called I think it's lie to me, and it's the same premise, but it's done with one person instead of two, and it doesn't use a wallet. You just place a card down on the table, and that's a mystery card. You have someone pick a card and you have them lie to you about it, and based on that, you can deduce what their actual card is. But the card that they lied about is the card that was on the table, and it's the same sort of plot where the miscalled card is the card that was all along either in your pocket on the table. I love that idea of any named card being out in the open.

SPEAKER_02:

Nice, that's a great choice. So let's talk about two things here. Number one, what you just mentioned about uh using the card to wallet almost like a well, it's a mentalism prediction effect, right? So instead of using it as a card to wallet in the traditional sense, it's a prediction that you've placed in your wallet. So, number one, this is the third trick that you've got some sort of card prediction in. So when performing, is it a case that you would do these three things in a set? Would you only do one in a set? Would you use two in a set? How would you approach these routines?

SPEAKER_01:

I definitely wouldn't put them all in one set. I think anything and paperclips go well together because you can have that open prediction. Um, but this uh with the card to wallet, I think would be maybe something separate.

SPEAKER_02:

We mentioned that you don't like gimmicks, but I would say that a card to wallet is kind of like an invisible gimmick. So which card to wallet are we going for in your routine?

SPEAKER_01:

I use I'm currently using, and I'm always changing. I'm currently using Orphic. And again, it's because it's also a mentalism wallet. Um, I wanted a wallet that did three things, which was peak, load, and switch. And Orphic wallet was one of the first ones that I found that did that. And you're right, it is uh a gimmick in a way, but it's also a wallet I carry every day. So it is just my wallet, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think it's a great choice. And it if you are gonna carry a gimmick, then you might as well make it something again so organic that it just feels like it's part of your everyday life, which that is exactly what it is. And yeah, the Orphic wallet is phenomenal, it's a great, great product. But it leads us to number four. So what is in your fourth spot?

SPEAKER_01:

Four is card to pocket. Now, I know that I said I don't like cards appearing in wallets, but card to pocket is slightly different because the way that I do it is a demonstration of skill. So, and there's no mentalism as well in this one. This is a curveball, I guess. Actually, as I'm looking at my list, that the mentalism is slowly fading away. Um, but card to pocket, the way I do it is it's a skill of demonstration. So instead of the card just magically appearing in your pocket in the same way, you know, ambitious, magically jumps to the top. There's a reason for it. I am every time I each phase, I am misdirecting the audience and almost sneaking it in my pocket and seeing if they can catch me out, and I and I like the boldness of telling them what I'm doing as I'm doing it, and there's a cheakiness. One of my phases, I I teach exactly what palming is, and I like the cheakiness of that because at one point or another in that routine I am genuinely doing palming, and I've just taught them what that is. So, in to be able to get away with that, despite them knowing what's going on, is even more impressive for me, I think. Um yeah, I like the cheekiness of the way that I perform card to pocket.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, let's get controversial then. We've now gone for a non-mentalism card trick, and there's a big debate amongst magicians and mentalists that you shouldn't necessarily mix card magic and mentalism. So, do you find or do you think just your thoughts on it? The fact that you are displaying this card slate of hand and it's quite complex and it's quite interesting, and you're revealing palming and stuff like that. Do you think that that hinders the mentalism side, or do you think it just works in tandem and it's all all uh cop aesthetic, it just works together?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't think it matters at all. I mean, there's magicians out there that will do a card trick and then do a coin trick. It's no different to doing a mentalism trick and then a card trick. I mean, look at Darren Brown, right? He is a mentalist, but how many card tricks has he done in his specials, his TV shows? There's nothing wrong with it. And it's framed in a way where it's not a magic trick, it's a demonstration of skill. In the same way, mentalism as well. I mean, when I do a mentalism trick, I don't pretend I can read someone's mind, I go down the route of I can influence you to do a certain thing. I'm not guessing because no, like nobody can don't like think of something and then I reveal it. Like that's I think going down the route of influencing is is slightly more interesting in the same way that going down the route of demonstrating sleight of hand is more interesting than a magic trick.

SPEAKER_02:

I think you're bang on the money there. Uh and you mentioned Darren Brown. I think at this point in his career, any card trick he performs will be attributed to some sort of mind trick somehow. Like I truly think that if he was to switch out a playing card, the general public would go, Oh, I didn't see that, you've made me see that, you know? I think it's so ingrained in who we think who he is.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think you're yeah, absolutely. I mean, look at his card to box. Oh, phenomenal. I loved it. It's a card to box, but the way it's like it's in it's mind-blowing. If no one's seen Card to Box by Darren, go and see it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's phenomenal. Well, that's a great one. That's your curveball so far. So let's find out what's in number five.

SPEAKER_01:

Number five is Chicago Opener. It has a bit of a messy origin. I'm not entirely sure who actually created Chicago Opener, but it is a classic in Magic. I guess for those of you who don't know, you have a card selected, it goes into the middle, and the back turns a different colour. Um, you place that oddback down, you try it again with a different selection, it doesn't work, and that's because the oddback card is now the new selection, I think is the basic rundown of Chicago Opener. I have always loved that trick. I have always performed it. It's something that's always stuck from my first ever gig all the way up until now. I've never not performed Chicago Open.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's talk about this for a second, because this is a non-mentalism piece. Again, we've just gone straight card magic at this point. And is this something and I know I I'm gonna predict where this is gonna go. I think I know where this is gonna go, but we're not gonna say anything yet. Um is this something that you would use as an opener?

SPEAKER_01:

Surprisingly, no, I don't. I would, and I and I could, but I don't. It's a closer.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's because of what I presume's about to happen next. Um, and that's what I think's really clever. I mean, we'll talk about this more after you say what you're, I'm presuming you're about to say, but that's what's so clever is you've taken an opening piece and you've managed to adapt it. Let's move on to it then. Let's find out what you put in number six, so then we can um talk about it properly.

SPEAKER_01:

The reason I don't do Chicago opener as an opener is because I never liked that you were left with an oddback card at the end. I never really liked that. And I mean, what are you supposed to do with it? Just put it in your pocket and don't address it. Are you supposed to give it out? But then it's not like signed, it's not really something you would keep. So, and that's why it didn't become an opener, because I led on from that oddback card and went straight into anniversary walls, uh, which is my number six. And what happens is I take the odd back card and a new card, and you have the red back and the blue back, and they act as as magnets, and it's it's almost I want to say hypnotic thing where the cards fuse together, it's not, they're just fusing together, and it's pretty cool. But the way that I frame it is almost like I'm tricking them into thinking that these cards are fused together. Um so Chicago Opener, which leads into anniversary waltz, birthed my creation of Chicago Waltz, where they both uh fuse together.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's say that five and six is almost like a melding here, and your honourable mention here is Chicago Waltz, alright? So we'll we'll put that in there as well because it it has to be mentioned. So it was only that odd card that made you think about this routine. I mean, it it doesn't really open, it doesn't work as an opener, I would say. Uh with the melding of both of those routines.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you're right, because the reason it's not an opener is because you're left with such an impossible object at the end, and that's a closer. Um, and that sort of outweighs the opening side of it all. Um you could just do those two that that's right, you could just do Chicago waltz, right? And and and and and make it a 10-minute set, um, and it be an opener and a closer, uh which is why earlier on I said you could, but I don't. Um so yeah, I I love the two. I'd always performed Chicago opener, I'd always performed Anniversary Waltz. Um, and the bit I didn't like was that odd back card at the end. Uh, and I just sort of found a way to nicely transition into Chicago Waltz. I've since changed the handling of that routine. So from what I taught on Unlimited, is now I would say completely different to the handling. So I think, Jamie, we need to make a Chicago Waltz V2 with an updated routine.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I'd I would be uh interested in seeing it just from my perspective, because uh again, I really do think it's a really very, very commercial routine. Uh and like I say, if you haven't checked it out and you are an unlimited member, just go check it out. It's it's superb, it's a really, really good routine.

SPEAKER_00:

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SPEAKER_02:

Right, let's see where we are at with our tail end. Alright, so we are now on seven and eight, so let's go for seven first.

SPEAKER_01:

Concam coincidencia or C3, because it's a mouthful to try and say, by uh Paul Wilson. Again, it has a time and place, but when you're with a group of people and the timing is right, it is so good. And I think the reason it's so good is because the spectator pretty much does all the work. Um, I suppose that I should give a rundown. You um you have four piles of cards, uh, you have three spectators, they get to pick, and uh the magician is left with the one that's left over. Uh, you do a series of shuffles and dealing, and you burn cards, and each spectator does a different thing, and yet somehow you are all left with a four of a kind, and it's this sort of coincidence, and it's mind-blowing, and yeah, the spectator to them do all the work, and to them, it is just impossible. I think because of the the places I perform, places like Magician's Table and uh Houdini's, people are sat down and they want to see magic, so it almost becomes a mini parlor environment. So I think that's why I perform it as much as I do, because the timing is right, and what and when I when I when I do it in such a sort of small crowd, and it and it also has this um mentalism-y feel, right? Because of this coincidence that you've all managed to deal to a specific card, and no one's asked you to do that, no one's asked you to, and it's that kind of feeling of how how did this coincidence happen, and it's like that sort of I want to say it's not really mentalism, but it's that sort of weird feeling.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's almost like you know, Woody Aragon's love ritual or shuffleboard, or you know, is this this series of events that they partake in, which feels you know, spontaneous and sporadic, and no one really knows what on earth is going on until that end revelation, and then you know, you get the WTF moment of no one was following that, so God knows how that's that's happened.

SPEAKER_01:

Ben Earl has a similar sort of adaptation uh called Always Six. And it means you could do it to smaller groups, you do it to two spectators, and and I think that fits better in a sort of close up. I actually think the routine is better, um, because there's a small edition that makes it way more impossible, um, but. Yeah, they're they're but they're both very similar effects. They come hand in hand, but the routine is slightly different.

SPEAKER_02:

So would you normally do this to a a large group? Is it a case of like if you're at the magician's table, I think you have about 10 people around the table at that uh those um sort of functions or those little groups that you're going to, would you get everyone on the table involved with it?

SPEAKER_01:

I would like to, but I've I'm since not allowed to perform that trick at the magician's table anymore. And I'll tell you why, it's because Andrew Frost performs it and he pulls rank, unfortunately. So I obviously it's not it's not fun, it's not ideal to cross over with a magician, so we all have to make sure that we are performing something different, of course. And uh it means I had to unfortunately scrap it, but yeah, I would have loved to have done that.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, well, if we ever get Andrew Frost on here, we already know what one of his is gonna be.

SPEAKER_01:

Have a word with him and to stop performing it.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, let's go to number eight then. So, what's in your final position?

SPEAKER_01:

So, this is an interesting one, and as far as I'm concerned, it's not published anymore. I had a quick look and I and I can't find it anywhere. Um, it's called Voodoo by Chris Ramsey. And basically, what happens is it's that you go into this idea of voodoo and you explain that if I took a strand of your hair, put it in a voodoo doll, whatever I do to this voodoo doll now will happen to you because they're linked. Okay, standard voodoo procedure. Um, but you don't do it with a dull, you do it with a deck of cards. And you your voodoo doll in this instance is a blank playing card, okay? And you have a spectator sign and lose a normal card into the deck, and that deck of cards doesn't get touched uh after that, they can hold on to the deck of cards. You then also have the blank cards signed in the exact same way, and that acts as the strand of hair. So they now are linked, those two cards are now linked. So, in theory, whatever you do to this blank voodoo card should happen to the signed card in that deck. And um, and you do, you rip it up, you burn it, you do, you basically destroy this voodoo card. And in doing that, you say whatever happened to this voodoo card happens to your real signed card, they spread through, and in that deck of in the middle of the deck of cards is a burnt, torch, torn-up card, and it is also their signed card, and it's this sort of very fooling routine. Um, and again, it's another one of those ones that have a time and a place, it's not something I would do all the time. Um, but it is something I auditioned with for the Magician's Table. Um, so when I met up with Ian Sharkey, I did it to him, and he he loved it, but I did get in trouble because it was a no-fire venue. Uh so you weren't allowed any any lighters, no flash paper, nothing. I don't even think you're allowed to smoke machines. Um, and yeah, so I I was like, oh no, I've I've I've ruined my audition because I did something I wasn't supposed to do. Uh, but luckily they liked it enough to take me on, which is which is nice.

SPEAKER_02:

I think that's really interesting. I think it's a really good routine. It's a really different kind of card trick, and I think in terms of your set list so far, um, well, not so far, this is the end of your set list. We had anything paper clipped, opening act, card to pocket, Chicago opener anniversary waltz slash Chicago Waltz, uh, ComCan Coincidencia, and we've got the voodoo card trick. I think that is the most curved ball because it almost feels a little bit bizarre.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it does come under the bizarre, bizarre. It does, you're completely right. Um, but although weirdly it all kind of fits under one umbrella of this. It's not just it's not a magic trick. It's almost if you took the magic out of it, you could almost. I don't know, it's such a weird thing to try and explain. It's it's like Darren, right? He he doesn't do magic, he always backs it up with some kind of explanation, and it makes sense. Like to a to a lay person, that explanation would make sense, but it's still amazing, like it's still so impressive, and I think that's what all of these tricks do, they they come across as a demonstration of influence or a demonstration of skill, um, and you could just explain it with just that, but that doesn't take away from how impressive it is.

SPEAKER_02:

The sort of context that you use, do you go down the voodoo route when you perform it?

SPEAKER_01:

I always have, I always have, but there's a small piece of me that hasn't has never really liked it, um, but I've never put the work in to make it what I want it to be. It's always just been it's been one of those tricks that I fall back on. If I feel if if I've uh exhausted all my material, uh I know I can rely on this to get a reaction, and that's what it is. So, like I said, it's not something I do all the time, but when I do, it's it's pretty cool. I just wish I did it more in order to refine it and make it what I want it to be.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, well, I think that's a really interesting one. I think you've left the curveball till last. Uh but you led us uh down a little garden path there because a couple of times we thought it was your curveball. But it leads us to your final three items. So obviously, we gave you eight tricks, but we've only given you one each of these. Let's go for the controversial one. I want you to imagine, Ben, that you're about to dig a big sandy hole on your island. You're gonna throw something inside from the industry. What have you put in the hole on your island?

SPEAKER_01:

So, this one I struggled with, but not for the reason you think. I came up with so many things that I would want to banish. Uh, I struggled to decide which one. One of them being dirty fingernails. Don't love that. Um, I'm not a massive lover of SpongeBobs, and that's only but I couldn't actually make that my one because when I started out in magic I did Spongebobs. So I have a small guilty pleasure for that, but it's not something I perform now. Um the one I went for was there are there's a lot of uh arrogance in the magic community, a lot of egos. And the thing I went for is there are magicians that think they are so good, okay, and they think they're the bees' knees, and what they do is they force magic upon spectators, even when they don't want to see it. Okay. Um I I don't perform unless I'm asked to. If I even if I'm out in a bar or a pub and you know, I I don't perform at all, I'll have something on me in case somebody goes, Ben's a magician, do a trick for for this person, then I will. But there's there's people that will just force it upon. And when they're not interested, um and it's doing yourself a disservice, really, because if you're doing a trick that you don't necessarily want to perform and they're watching a trick that they don't necessarily want to watch, what's the point? And and really it comes down to magicians just trying to feed their ego. I think that's my banishment.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, well, unfortunately, no one heard that because you got cancelled at Spongebobs. Um I thought that would happen.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't I I was on the fence whether I should mention it or not, but I did I backed it up with the fact that I do have a guilty pleasure for them.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, well, we'll let you off then. Um I think that you are absolutely right. In fact, I was having a conversation just a few days ago with someone about this, the idea that a lot of magicians don't seem to be able to turn it off. Yeah, it it's almost like they have to be the centre of attention all times, um and they have to show off. I think a lot of the time it's showing off, and it's about you know, here's the skill I have or whatever it is. But I I also think it's really interesting what you said about you know, it's doing a disservice because, for example, if I did a residency, which I do, people aren't necessarily always there to see magic. I mean, a lot of the time they are because they know it's a magic evening, but they're not always there to see magic. So at those tables, I'm already behind the curve. Whereas if you're in an environment where people have come for magic, you're way ahead. Way, way, way ahead.

SPEAKER_01:

It's funny you say that actually, because down at Houdini's, um, we get a lot of customers come in who don't want to see any magic. I think they just want to drink. Don't I don't get it either, but it happens, and you have to respect that though. I think Magician's Table is slightly different because you're paying, you're paying to be there. Um, but yeah, that happens, and you have to respect that. I I don't want to put myself through the pain of having to do a trick that I know they're not enjoying. So, what what's the point?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I think that's a really interesting one. Uh, again, we've had lots of ego and stuff like that on on the podcast, but we've not had that specific perspective, which I think's really interesting. Uh, but it leads us on to our last two items. So, what did you put in your book position?

SPEAKER_01:

Book? Okay, I must admit I'm not the most well-read magician. Okay, and but then again, I suppose not every magician has read every book. Um, but from what I have read, I have to put one degree by John Gosfero. Um not only does it make you think differently about your magic and taking it that those small nuances that can take it that one degree further. It's there's also just some brilliant routines in there, some brilliant tricks. There's a specific trick I have in mind when I talk about this, and it's called the truth in advertising. I think it's the one of the first tricks in there, and it's a blank deck routine. Um, you have a spectator pick the only printed card in a blank deck, um, and then the kicker is the the cards print, okay? All the cards print. Um and again, it comes down, it's a perfect example of if you can do it gimmickless, do it, and that's exactly what it is. It's a blank deck, it's a gimmickless blank deck routine. Um, and I think that's the highlight from that book for me. Some great slides in there as well, but yeah, one degree.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, this is a phenomenal book. I remember getting it when it came out, and uh again, the philosophy was really interesting. Like Ben just said, uh, the the crux of the book, without giving too much away, is the idea that sometimes the tiniest change in a routine or a move or an idea or a concept can mean the difference between it being, you know, average or being something spectacular. And not to pump your ego up too much, Ben. Um, I do feel like that, based on what I've seen from you and the certainly Chicago Warts, that's kind of a philosophy that you've taken, right? You take these two concepts, which are great in their own right, but by adding that one degree, by uh putting those two routines together, not only does it help with the method, but it also makes such a phenomenal routine.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think a a good piece of advice from that book, and I think I don't I can't because well I've actually lost my copy, but I think um there's a small I don't know whether it goes into detail, but there's a small piece of advice in there that says even down to just remembering the spectator's name makes the biggest difference. And that is probably a piece of advice that I've always lived by, just remember their name. And the amount of people who who sort of come up to me after a gig or anything like that, and I remember their name, and they're like, Oh my god, you remember my name? And that almost makes yourself look more memorable as well. Um, so yeah, best piece of advice.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, that's a great book, and we've got one more thing. So, what is your non-magic item that you would use for magic?

SPEAKER_01:

Now, this this genuinely was the most difficult one. I think it was the hardest thing out of all of them, and I went for a Stanley knife or an X-Acto knife, um not just for all the hunting that I'm going to do on this desert island, um, but also it's such an underrated tool. Um, and I didn't realise how much I used it until I lost it. And what I'm realizing on this podcast is that I'm quite clumsy, keep losing all my stuff. Um, but you know, not only can you, you know, use it to open a deck of cards, but you can also use it for gimmick building, you can also use it to achieve the same results as perfect score, which is something I do all the time, especially with paper clipped. Um, yeah, it has it it's just a great tool to have.

SPEAKER_02:

You're absolutely right. I know so many performers and magicians, uh, especially creators, who have uh like an emergency kit, and it's normally like a small tin or something like that, and it will have like super glue in it, it will have elastic in, it will have thread in, it will have uh small scissors in, a little blade in um some of them have the little mini cutting mats that are like just bigger than a playing card. Um, so I think it's a really good tool to have in there. Um the question that I have for you with your item is how many trees exactly are you chopping down with an Xacto knife? Um, and how is that gonna work on your island?

SPEAKER_01:

I I was thinking more fun uh hunting for fish, I think. Uh well my honourable mention was um my phone case, which I think is slightly more obscure. Um and well, nobody will be able to see this, but Jamie will. I have a a playing card in my phone case, and it sits there all the time, and it's my out. If anything goes wrong, it's my out, and it's a double backer. So, you know, I'm sure you you can imagine if anything goes wrong, I can rely on that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that's really smart. That's a really, really nice idea. And you did have another honorable mention, which you I'm not sure if you realised you s slipped in there, which was John Allen's um perfect score. Yeah, yep, I perfect score, yeah. That's a great little tool for uh scoring a card, basically, so it's easier to fold should you need to visit Mercury.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, that's spot on.

SPEAKER_02:

So I'm paper clipped. And paper clipped and paper clipped. So I'm gonna read your list back to you, see what you think of it. So we started with anything, paper clipped, uh, opening act, card to pocket, Chicago opener, anniversary waltz, uh Concam Coincidencia. Thanks for making me say that one. Voodoo, uh your banishment is forcing magic on people. Your book is one degree, and your item is an exacto knife. A great, great set, Ben.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you, thank you very much. And I had uh less than 24 hours to think of it.

SPEAKER_02:

You did, uh, and it's we we've not had a strong card set for a little while, actually. Um, because every trick here is a card trick. Um, but it's really interesting to see the the differences in all of them, even the sort of prediction routines that you have, like anything and the card to pocket, etc., they're all very different in how they feel. Certainly, anything is quite an abstract card reveal, uh, and it doesn't it's not really about the card in that routine. Uh paperclips, of course, you're using as a finale for anything. Um, opening act is like a multi-phase card plot as well. So I think it's really cool how you've put these together, and I actually don't think that they would be too strange in a full card routine or a card set.

SPEAKER_01:

I think as I was creating this, I was sort of in the back of my mind, I was kind of thinking if I were to do eight tricks in a in a show, what what would what would flow nicely and in in a way they could. I think you'd have maybe have to reorder, maybe have to change your sort of routining on each one, but they could, you could, I think, do them all together.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think it would be a really strong card set. Now, if people want to find out more about you, Ben, if they want to find out about where you're performing, about the Magician's Sable, about Houdini's, about your work with Unlimited, all of that good stuff, where can they go to?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, they can uh go to my Instagram, which is SidwanMagic, um, and uh on there is my website, and feel free to drop me a message if you have any questions or just want to chat, I'm there.

SPEAKER_02:

And do check out Ben's tricks on unlimited because they are both phenomenal, and I promise I will try and get more out of him going forward, um, and we'll get some more on there. Certainly, the second version of um Chicago Waltz, I think would be a great one to get on there. Um, but thank you again, Ben. No worries, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01:

It's been fun, it was a challenge. I liked it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, well, it was a very, very good set. And of course, thank you all for listening. We'll be back next week with another episode. But for now, have a great week, everyone. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00:

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