Desert Island Tricks
Each week we invite one of the biggest guests in the world of magic to maroon themselves on a desert island. They are allowed to take with them 8 tricks, 1 book, 1 banishment and 1 non magic item that they use for magic! We discuss their 'can't live without' lists and why those items were chosen.
Episodes are uploaded every Friday and are available via all Podcast service providers!
To find out more about the team behind Desert Island Tricks, please visit: www.alakazam.co.uk
Desert Island Tricks
Erik Tait
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What makes a close-up set survive bars, restaurants, conventions, and The Magic Castle without breaking stride? We chase that answer with Erik Tait, who lays out eight pieces that hit fast, reset instantly, and leave images people actually remember. From a safer, sleeker ring-to-keys in Flight 101 to a signed card to pocket born from pandemic constraints, Erik shows how speed and clarity beat complexity when you’re performing in the wild. Every choice earns its space, not for novelty, but because it delivers a clean effect under pressure.
We dig into the unexpected power of the reverse-cut Mental Photography deck and how to frame “experimental” props so they impress and then disappear before the heat. We rethink cups and balls as a crisp five-minute routine with decisive phases and bold loads. We turn sugar into a 3D-printed salt elephant that guests keep and talk about for years. We even give ambitious card a new spine by using an odd-backed selection, making each rise unmistakable while exploring timing and display in ways that feel fresh and visual.
Erik’s coins across opens every table he works, direct, quick, and in their hands, proving the set before a wordy intro can get in the way. Then a handsome wooden update to the classic colour-vision box, Mental Block with a die, fools magicians and invites itself to be performed from a living room mantel. Along the way, Erik banishes rope magic for looking like puzzles, champions The Secrets of So Sato for elegant card thinking, and reveals the humble nail file that quietly shapes his decks and once confounded a precision scale.
Erik’s Desert Island Tricks:
1. Flite 101
2. Card to Pocket
3. Mental Photography
4. Cups and Balls
5. Sugar Rabbit
6. Blue Backed Card, Ambitious Card
7. Coins Across
8. Mental Block
Banishment. Rope Magic
Book. Secrets of So Sato
Item. Nail File
Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
We have this effect the this trick out called Dragon Scale. And if you don't know what it is, it's a high precision scale that's hidden inside of a card box. Uh if a deck is in a known order, then it can tell you you can cut off a packet and knows everything about that deck, uh, about that packet. Um typically people use it in mnemonica, but you can do it in kind of whatever. Nick LeCapo and I had Dragon Scale on the road for five years before anyone saw it. Like no one knew that Penguin was working on this. And Nick's worked, and mine didn't. And it was mine would always be off by one or two cards. And we we changed my phone, we changed my unit, and Nick's would work consistently and mine wouldn't. And one day, this thing probably delayed the release of Dragon Scale because we couldn't figure out what was going on. And then one day somebody goes, Eric, are you using your personal working deck with Dragon Scale or are you using a new one? And I'm using my working deck, why would I? And they were like, Well, do you have all that weird stripper work and like clipped corners and stuff? And I was like, Oh yeah. I use a nail file to alter every deck, whether it's shorting a corner, shorting a card, doing some weird stripper stuff. Uh, and so if you like, if you actively looked at my deck, it would look like it was being chewed on by uh a chipmunk. Uh, but it's because I've removed material. And when you put that, my removed cards into mnemonica, those all get biased towards the top. And so when you cut the deck, it it the scale would think it was missing a card or two, which is how sensitive the scale is, hello, and welcome to another episode of Desert Island Tricks.
SPEAKER_03:We have been long awaiting one of our American friends. I know we've had lots and lots of people writing into us, sending us emails with your American guests, uh, the people that you want on here, but I'm very excited to have another American accent on this podcast. So if you are on YouTube, you can actually watch this one. Uh, today's guest is set up for podcasting because he hosts another podcast. It's like host the host at this point, which is great. Um, and I know that this is going to be such a brilliant one. I really wanted today's guest to come on for a little while. Um, so I'm so pleased that he's finally here. He is a Physm award winner. He got third place in Card Magic in 2022 and is the first American in 20 years. 20 years to get an award in card magic, and the fourth ever. How mad is that the fourth ever American to get uh a prize at Physm. Uh of course, he works for Penguin. He does an awful lot of work for Penguin. You would have seen him on some of their trailers, some of the podcasts. Um, of course, he has his own releases as well. He had Ultra Larkey Coin, Gasp. Um, he just informed me as well that he actually helped or did write Craig Petty's book, which I've been informed is a very, very good book. So once again, I'm gonna have to add another book to my shelves. Um he also worked, of course, on the hit TV show Ships of the Northern Fleet, and also appeared on Penn and Teller Fool Us. Uh, I know that whenever I get a guest on here who's around so much magic and clearly loves the industry and magic as much as um today's guest does, that it's gonna be a really interesting episode. So today's guest, of course, is the wonderful Eric Tate. Hello, Eric. Hi, Jamie. How are you? Uh great to have you here. Like I said, it's nice to have an American accent back on our podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Oh no, it's it's great to be here. I'm I'm thrilled to be on a podcast that uh shamelessly stole a uh a premise that my podcast pioneered and then abandoned.
SPEAKER_03:So it's lovely to have you all here. That was uh that was Eric Tate. Uh yes. Well, so the the way that the our actual podcast came about is we were coming up with concepts and ideas, uh, and our idea was completely different. And Pete said to me, a bit like Desert Island discs. Yeah. And then that just triggered in my brain. I was like, well, why don't we do desert island tricks? And then we came up with that, and then we found out, of course, the the wonderful penguin podcast at one point did have that as one of their questions.
SPEAKER_01:I'm teasing with lots of love here. It's uh it's it's a great premise. I mean, like I shamelessly stole it from uh the British show Desert Island Discs, which I am a big fan of and have been a big fan of for a long time. And so I used to you do Desert Island magic books on the show before we sort of changed formats. And so when you reached out to me, I was like, oh, this is fantastic. I because I always had to do the asking. I never got to do the the informing. So so I'm I'm very excited.
SPEAKER_03:So did that mean when you had this as an option on your podcast, did you actually secretly know what you would say if you were on the receiving end?
SPEAKER_01:No, it's it it's truly difficult, like to it's very difficult to come up with exactly what you want. Because I just did books, because I I'm I'm a big book nerd as well. I've got a when I bought the house that I'm in, we walked in and there was like me and my reader walked in, and there was two built-in bookshelves on either side of the fireplace, and I was like, we don't need to look anywhere else. This is it. Uh, which is not how I recommend buying a house. Uh, but I I always dread the question because I it's so hard to limit yourself to things. Um, and I and I love so many different books and tricks uh for very, very different reasons. And so I was I was up half the night last night, like really struggling with this list uh and trying to figure out what it was, especially because of my my personal taste in magic versus the tricks that I do for work. Uh and like, you know, being a sort of a magic sales guy and and on the industry side, I I a big part of my job is finding something positive about every trick that I come across. Uh, and there really are positive things about 99% of the tricks that are out there on the market. There's a there's a reason that someone felt the reason to bring it. But when it comes down to like my personal taste, it was like, oh, what do I what do I go for? So it was uh yeah, I'm I'm excited.
SPEAKER_03:So have you have you got things in your list that have been informed by things that have happened at Penguin or or your work at Penguin? Have have those crept in?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, definitely. Uh there's actually there's two that I that I can see. I have the list down here on my uh on a little pad uh below on this other screen. And there's two that are that are straight up penguin products that I I truly love. And then a third one that is a penguin product that is actually based on a much older trick that I fell in love with because of Blackpool, actually. Um it was uh we'll we'll talk more about it when we get there, but you know, being at Penguin exposes me to so much magic that I used to be pretty much straight up carts all the time. And I've really become more of a generalist as I as I look at my regular restaurant gig that I do, and when I'm hired to perform at various private parties or corporate events, or even I just got booked at the castle again, and I'm I was thinking like, oh, it might be nice to do cups and balls in the close-up gallery. Like I've never, I've always just like walked into that room with a deck of cards and nothing else. And now I'm kind of going, well, it might be nice to do some coin tricks or uh uh or you know, just something else with just that's sort of offbeat that people wouldn't recognize me for. Um, because I because these are things that I actually do all the time. You know, it's it's not on the list, but I perform Chop by Craig Petty all the time. Uh, because I I love not just the prop, but the premise and and involving the money. Uh it's you know, I've got a different routine than he does. Mine's based on Schrdinger's cap, but it really is it's been fun to Penguin has forced me to grow uh in all of the different areas of magic that I do, and it's been really fun.
SPEAKER_03:So well, that's why I think it's gonna be so interesting hearing your list. And we've also got like uh we've got this new spin-off of the podcast, and it's called SOS, and the idea is a few few years down the line, we may invite you back on and see if your list has changed. Do you do you think that you're someone because you're so involved in magic and there's so much coming through, is your list likely to change over the next few years, or do you literally think this is it for the rest of my days? I would be happy with this.
SPEAKER_01:No, I think my list would change on a week-to-week basis. Um I I do uh just as another example, uh, I do double cross all the time. It didn't make the list, but it's it's definitely something that like I I don't leave, I don't leave for a gig without it because I know how strong it is. But at the same time, uh I'm I'm playing with stuff and I'm like, oh, this is really fun, and it'll inform other things the the way I do uh you know, as I'm putting to you know, I do a lot of stage shows, I do a lot of parlor these days, and a lot of the close-up stuff that I'm doing then informs what I want to do on parlor and on stage. Uh it's it's that's one of the great things about being on the industry side is seeing all of these different things come through and just getting to play with fun things.
SPEAKER_03:Yep, I absolutely agree. Um, so this is gonna be a really interesting episode, guys. Strap in. So if this is your first time listening, the idea is that we're about to maroon Eric on his very own magical island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight stricks, banish one item, take one book and one non-magic that he uses for magic. I think I just said that right. Uh, particulars, who's there, what's there? We do not mind. We're all gonna assume that maybe he's on a colder island with some penguins. We we he may be there. Uh, but let's go to your magical island now and find out what's in position number one.
SPEAKER_01:Uh position number one. I'm assuming that I can perform for people on this island.
SPEAKER_03:Like there are there's a restaurant, there's parties, there's you yeah, if that's what you want, this is your your you can have some Inuits there if you are on this cold island with the penguins. Um you however it looks to you, we're we're happy.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Well, uh so I I base the list around things that I genuinely enjoy performing, things that have found their way into my uh my gig bag, my the the suit coat that I just you know when I throw it on when I leave. It's stuff that I'm doing a lot. Um, and the first in the slot is Flight 101 by Roddy McGee. Uh this is uh so this is a penguin product, and it's one of those things that I first encountered it when I joined Penguin, I mean, wow, way back in 2018. So this was a long time ago. This is an older trick. Uh, and essentially what it is is uh a it is a borrowed ring vanishes and appears on a borrowed spectator's keys. And uh a lot of magicians slept on it when it came out, and I think uh partially because there is in the magic world, there's sort of a fear of ring flight. A lot of people are worried about like, you know, the there's a horror story about the ring flight breaking and flying off the edge of a cruise ship or you know, losing a stone or scratching something. And for me, Flight 101 takes all of that fear out of it because the ring is always under your control, there's no moving parts, it vanishes and it reappears on genuinely reappears on borrowed spectators' keys. And it's being on the industry side, I end up performing for magicians a lot in dealer demos in booths. And I it was a it was all a hard one to demo at a convention because we're normally in the dealer's room, which is attached to the hotel, so people don't have their car keys on them. So I would have to like impress upon people that even though we're using my keys here, these are these are represent borrowed keys. And I think that people had a difficult time making the intuitive leap. But every single working table hopper, restaurant magician, uh, you know, people who do close-up and walk around to parties, every single pro or worker that I've shown this to immediately is like, yep, I'm getting that. I'm doing it. It's a very, very powerful trick. Uh, it really is a borrowed ring, it really is uh borrowed keys, and it uh it really is super safe. I mean, the the ring, the ring never really leaves like a six-inch sphere of uh of area. So that you know, you it's it's really difficult for someone to be like, oh, you you know, you hurt my ring or something like that. It's really difficult to lose it. Uh, it's super reliable, and I carry it around uh in I have a an Okana style uh purse that I keep my ultra lucky coin in that I use and I have it in there. So it's just I always know where it is. I own five of these things because I'm afraid that we're not gonna make them again and I'm gonna lose them. Uh it's I mean, it's it's really one of my favorite tricks that's out there.
SPEAKER_03:So when you perform this, are you performing this as a solo routine or is this part of a larger set? Do you have the ring go to other places?
SPEAKER_01:No, it's a solo piece. Uh the the premise, and and I I even I don't even drift that far from what Roddy McGee does, where he he he has the ring placed in his hand and then he picks up their keys and he says, uh, do you know the old wives tale about like uh uh holding a necklace or a pendulum over a pregnant woman's uh uh stomach? If it goes clockwise, it's a boy, counterclockwise, it's a girl. You can do the same thing with precious metals. If the the rings go clockwise, it's gold, counterclockwise, it's silver. You'll notice the key art isn't moving at all because the ring is gone. You open your hand, the ring is gone, you say it didn't go very far, and then you point to the keys, and their ring is literally on like the split ring on their keys, and then you take it off and give it to them, and uh you give them the keys back, you give them the ring back. Uh, it is it is that direct and that strong. Um, and it's just I do I don't think that when we perform magic, we always have to like create a really like a really like dynamic routine or anything. I I think you can literally just do something where you vanish it from one place and end up in another and have the thin premise of uh do you know this old wives tale? Just to to vaguely justify what's going on. Uh, but it's it's a very, very strong piece of magic. Just as a solo piece. And I usually I always started off by saying, Does anyone have any keys that we can borrow? Because rings are easy to get, but keys these days are harder to find. Uh so and if they don't have keys, I'll move on to something different. But if somebody has keys, oh man, I teed up to do this trick.
SPEAKER_03:Amazing. Well, I think that's a great one in at number one. Uh so we've gone for a ring flight. Let's go to number two, then, Eric. What did you put in your second spot?
SPEAKER_01:Uh my second spot is card to pocket, and more specifically, the card to pocket that I do. Um I uh during the pandemic, I uh had a number of shows that I was contracted to that I couldn't get out of the contract of. And uh I reworked my show so that nobody came on stage. Uh so it it felt safer to me um to do that. And I and I could, I could sort of, you know, let's not talk ethics or anything like that, but I I could do the show uh in the room and not have to worry about somebody uh coming up on stage and uh them being immunocompromised or whatever. And one of the things that did was it made my show move a lot faster because it eliminated the up what I call the up-down problem. There's a lot of performers who I see on stage or parlor where they bring somebody up, they do a trick, they send them down, they bring somebody else up, and it just slows the show down. And so by not having anyone come on stage, the show started to move faster. The other thing was because I wasn't handing things out to people, that allowed me to start to look at different methods and and approach things in a very different way. And so my card to pocket involves a signed playing card, like literally vanishing at my fingertips and reappearing in my pocket over and over again. Uh, and it's it's spare, it's it plays with time travel. Um, and there's a lot of jokes about like going backwards in time and forwards in time. Uh, and it I can do it pretty much anywhere. Um, I I've done it, I've done it in close-up, I've done it on stage, uh, and it's it's really fun to do. Uh, and it's become sort of a signature piece for me, but it's also one of my more fun performance pieces. I've always loved card to pocket or home and card, depending on what you call it. And so learning to not just develop my own, but answer the answer different questions about how uh we do the trick in new and interesting ways has been lots of fun for me.
SPEAKER_03:I think this sounds really interesting. It almost sounds a bit like uh card under box.
SPEAKER_01:As a matter of fact, card there there was some card under box stuff that inspired various phases of my card to pocket. Uh the wonderful UK performer Daniel Chard had a big influence uh on this particular uh uh version of the effect. Um, and when I was comfortable interacting with people again, uh, there is a moment that is really interesting where I place the signed card into my pocket. I have the person push the card into the pocket, and then they put their finger on my hip on the outside of my pants, confirming that they feel the playing card in the pocket. And then the I show them the top card of the deck, and then there's a funny thing where I freeze time apparently, but their finger never leaves my hip. Uh, and then the signed card is now on top of the deck, but they still feel a playing card in the pocket. And when I pull that card out of my pocket, it's the card that was on top of the deck. So there's a really interesting transposition that happens under sort of a test condition, uh, which is which is really fun. And and again, it's it's in it's been inspired and informed by a lot of different things. Uh, and it was these, it was these conditions that it was born under that led to it becoming really interesting. I actually taught it during uh a jam session at uh the House of Secrets at Blackpool last year uh to a room full of people. Um and it was it was really fun to really share a lot of the ideas because I haven't published it anywhere else. It's I've kept it pretty close to the vest.
SPEAKER_03:That was gonna be my next question. Uh because I so we not that this was a plug for this, but we've just got into it, but I've just finished editing uh Daniel Child's card under box course. Um great. So I really want to learn it. After watching his tutorial, it's like an hour-long, in-depth, it's the most work he he's put on on the plot, and then hearing yours immediately makes me want to learn your cards and pocket as well. Because I think if you're doing tables like you mentioned, you do restaurants, same here. I love being able to go to different tables and do versions of tricks so that I I'm not losing the theme behind the trick. So here obviously it could be misdirection or time travel or whatever. So as soon as you said that, I was like, Oh, that sounds great. I'd love to learn that. So potentially maybe a penguin download in the future, maybe.
SPEAKER_01:I you know, I think I'm gonna hang on to this one for a few more years. Uh it's uh it it it really is one of my favorite pieces to perform. And uh there's a chance I'll publish it eventually. But uh, I gotta I gotta I gotta I gotta I want to continue keeping it my own for a while.
SPEAKER_03:So okay. All right. Well, that's at least something that we can all look forward to in the future. Um we'll we'll have to put up with the frustration for now, guys, but we'll get there eventually. So let's go into number three. What's in your third spot?
SPEAKER_01:Number three is mental photography. So this is you were asking about things from Penguin, have they seeped in here? I apologize to listeners if you hear my dog barking in the background. Uh but the um mental photography, if you're not familiar with it, is you present a deck of cards that is blank on the face and the back, and then you tell people that you can think of any playing card and it will print. When you cut the deck, it prints. You show that the back hasn't printed, then you think of the back of a card and it prints, and it looks like a full deck, but it's still blank on all the cards in between. You can then uh uh think of an entire deck of cards, the entire deck of cards prints, and then it go all goes blank again. Uh, we penguin released uh a reverse mental photography deck. And but when we say reverse mental photography, what we mean is the way a mental photography deck is traditionally made, I I forget exactly which side is, but like the the blank what one side is short and one side is long, or one of the printings is long. And with this, the uh the cut is reversed, and that changes some of the displays that you're allowed to do. Many years ago, when I first got into uh magic, I was I was 19, I was working as a juggler in a vaudeville variety theater in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee. The owner was like, You're a juggler, you probably know magic, didn't know very much. So I started working behind this magic counter where we were pitching sphingali dice. Decks, mental photographies, invisible decks, cups and balls. And mental photography was one that I fell in love with. I've been doing this trick for 25, 30 years now. And when Penguin decided to put it back out, and we did it with the reverse cut so that we could do these other displays, it was interesting because I do the same moves that I did in the pitch, but because the cut was different, it allowed me to show the deck in different ways that made it stronger and hit harder and faster. Uh and I had kind of forgotten how strong the effect is. Because I think one of the things that we tend to do as magicians is we we'll buy, we'll get some tricks from a pitch shop, whether it's you know, Invisible Deck or Svengali deck or uh stripper deck uh or nickels to dimes or scotch and soda or whatever it is. And we, as we get, as we grow in the art and become more advanced in the hobby, we forget about those things. But the reason that those were attracted us to magic to begin with is because they are so strong. So bringing this back out, taking it back into restaurants, uh, and now it's something that tends to travel with me to gigs, and I will I'll reach into my and I I will have a uh regular deck of cards in the mental photography deck uh in my pocket, and I won't always know which one I'm gonna bring out. And so I'll reach in, and if I pull out the mental photography deck, it ends up being blank, and I can say, oh, sorry, this is an experimental deck that I was I didn't mean to. Well, let me show you. And so it seems very organic in the moment, but then I just basically do the same thing that I was pitching uh uh back in the day, where I sort of walk through the deck and then I can put it away and go, here's a regular deck of cards. I'll show you now, I'll show you something interesting uh with a regular deck. And because of the presentation of this is an experimental deck, it also very neatly avoids anyone wanting to examine the deck, is because it's it's it very quickly goes away after it does its little trick. Uh and also if I'm gonna carry, you know, this is another thing that we get into on the industry side a lot, uh, where if you're if you're going to carry a deck of cards that is entirely gimmicked to do one trick, it better be one heck of a good trick. And the mental photography deck is it's it's a it's a nice full routine that starts and ends. Uh it's it's completely self-contained, and then it can go away, and it's really, it's really fun. I love doing that trick.
SPEAKER_03:So you touched on something that I I was gonna ask. So absolutely incredible choice. Uh, I love the mental photography deck. I think it's just one of the best uh kind of those tricks that's out there. Um, I myself have got special decks of cards, uh, two of the ones that you mentioned, um, and I've also got a version of this which is Imagine uh by Pete and Harry. And I know that there are gonna be people listening to this podcast who may never have got one of these kinds of decks because they're worried about people saying, Can I have a look at that deck? Can I what what can I do about avoiding that happening? And you kind of touched on it there. Um so if you were asked by someone, you know, what do you do? If someone wants to take that deck, if someone wants to look at it, how how would you go about explaining to them how they should handle the deck?
SPEAKER_01:Great, a great question. Um, and let's do a uh let's do a role-playing exercise right now. I've just finished performing with what is obviously a gimmick deck. You are a spectator who wants to examine the deck. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:Uh can I have a look at that card to see how what what is it gonna put?
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_01:No. You're not six, I'm not crazy, none of this is real. Let's move on. It's I I mean, look, what we do, I I think that I have a lot of reverence for magic. I I I have a lot of reverence for it as an art form, but I am also under no illusion that anything that I'm doing will have any effect on the world at all, right? In a in a positive or negative way. If I if I really had magic powers and I was using them to make a card appear on the top of a deck or print and then vanish or move money from from one hand to another, like a teleportation spell of an absurdly short distance, I would be using my power is in the worst possible way. There are there are so many, there are so many other good things I could do for humanity if I had actual magic powers. And and choosing to do the kinds of magic effects that we do is like the you're you're just a terrible human if you if you use your real powers for that. So I um I would also say that my internal monologue when I perform for people is that uh what I do is not magic. What I do is a demonstration of skill for which you have no explanation. And that frees me up from a lot of things where uh I can just tell you that what I do is sleight of hand. I can just tell you that, yeah, it's a special deck of cards, but no, you can't touch it. You just don't get to know how it works. That's fine. Um uh I just say no and move on. Uh and I'm all but I'm you know, I'm not a jerk about it. I'm just like, nope, you can't. And then and we move on. And if they want to be a jerk about it, then I just stop sharing magic with them and move on. Uh and 99 times out of a hundred, uh, if somebody is a real uh nasty person to you, and the but everyone else is having fun, they will shut that person down for you because they want to continue seeing magic and have fun. So uh I think that this is a question that comes up a lot, and I think that the reason is uh it comes up a lot is that people overthink what to do. Um, just say no and move on. That's it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I also think the the odds are uh, with without sounding like I'm an Hunger Games film, the odds are ever in your favor. Um, and that kind of thing is gonna happen once in a blue moon anyway. Um, and I also think that when you're performing, certainly you said you do restaurant work as well, when you're performing in that fast-paced environment, the magic tends to be a bit of an adrenaline fix for the audience as well. They want to see the next thing, they want to see the next thing. So by saying, you know, putting that deck of cards really cleverly, you said this is an experimental deck, putting that back in the box, putting it into your pocket, and then moving straight on, you're not giving the audience that moment to say, well, I want to see that, because you're already into the next thing, you're already engaging them in the next premise or the next idea or the next thing that you're gonna do. So, yeah, I think that's a great choice. Uh, mental photography deck. So, so far we've had flight uh 101, we've had Carter Pocket, and now we've got mental photography. Let's see where we're gonna go with number four. What's in your fourth spot?
SPEAKER_01:Uh cups and balls. I uh cups and balls was the first trick that I ever learned. Um, it's entirely possible that I bought it from David Williamson when I was a kid. Uh it was uh there was like this uh series of shops called Magic Masters in the United States. They had dark paneling. Uh, I know that Williamson worked him at one point. Um, maybe it was him or maybe it wasn't, but uh I definitely bought it from one of those places. Uh my dad was on a business trip. My dad was a salesman, took me along. Uh I still have the cups. They're a little aluminum set, like Empire with the red crocheted balls. Now I use the penguin cups, they're copper cups, uh, and I have uh blue monkey fists. Um I was a bar magician for a long time. Love doing cups and balls. Uh I've experimented with lots and lots of different routines and sort of ended up coming up with my own. Uh it's a super fun trick. It's just really, really fun. And I like not doing Gaza's routine or Vernon's routine and actually like playing with different moves that I've collected from different people. Uh uh, whether it's uh Raphael Benatar move here or uh uh an Amar move or something. It's uh it's super fun. Uh I've just I've been having cups fun with cups and balls for years, and I pretty much exclusively do it behind bars. Uh I tend not to do it in formal close-up, but uh yeah, a good copper set of cups and you know, some fake limes, and we're good to go.
SPEAKER_03:When you said behind bars, it really sounded like you meant but in in prison. I only perform this in prison.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes, I only perform it in prison.
SPEAKER_03:So, with cups and balls, something that I've always wanted to know. Uh I've never performed cups and balls. I think of it almost like the stage version of an ambitious card routine, in that sometimes it can potentially go on a little bit too long. There are too many phases. How do you go about working out how many phases to put in and what does your routine look like in terms of how it progresses?
SPEAKER_01:Uh in my routine, it starts off pretty pretty normal, where you, you know, put a ball on top of a cup, another cup on top, and it passes through. Then in the next, and this for the next thing, I'm gonna put two cups on top, and the ball goes through two cups, then a ball goes through three cups. Uh, then I I go so we all understand how this works. If a ball is between two cups, it vanishes. Where's the ball? Everyone assumes it's on the bottom, and then I lift it up, but it's underneath the extra cup over to the side. So now we can see that the the ball doesn't just pass through cups, it can also teleport. Uh, then there's a really fun move where you bang two cups together and it vanishes the ball between them, and then some other fun displays. Uh then I do some one cup work, uh, I get one cup and one ball. Uh that entire time I've been using just one ball. Then I bring in three balls and I do uh you know one ball under each cup, and then they collect underneath underneath a single cup. And at that point, I go into my final load phase. So I mean it's it's probably only like five minutes long. It doesn't, it doesn't feel super long. Uh, and it moves pretty at a pretty quick pace. Um, so I I tend to think that there's a lot of stuff, the reason a lot of people who do very classic routines like like Vernon's routine, uh because they think that they need to pay homage to that rather or like, oh, this is the gold standard, it has been the gold standard for a long time. Um and I think that just as audience tastes change and new techniques develop, experiment and have fun.
SPEAKER_03:Again, I've just finished editing up um a cups and balls course uh with Andy Smith, and that was the first time that I'd seen the bull disappearing in between the cups.
SPEAKER_01:That's a great move.
SPEAKER_03:So good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and like you don't see people do the galloping post at all. And like that's it's just like there are some great moves that you can do and experiment with. If you ever get a chance to see Michael Blomecchi's Cups and Balls and Claws that he uh just won a prize with at uh Physm Italy, uh that's another like really great like exploration of the cups and balls and and using like non-traditional moves and stuff. Uh it's it's well worth taking a look at.
SPEAKER_03:Amazing. Well, that's another thing that I get to watch um after this. So thank you for that. Uh, let's go on to number five then. So, what's in your fifth spot?
SPEAKER_01:Uh Sugar Rabbit by uh Steve Fearson. If you haven't seen the trick, in the original version, Steve uh tears open a sugar packet, pours the sugar into his hand, sculpts it into a rabbit. Uh, then the rabbit falls apart back into a lump uh into a pile of sugar, and then he vanishes the sugar and it reappears inside the packet, which restores itself. Uh fantastic trick. Really, really good. I have an alteration to it, uh, which is I do it with salt instead of sugar. So I'll carry around a little salt shaker, and then uh I pour it in somebody's hand, sculpt the rabbit in their hand, uh, and then I give them the rabbit uh because I 3D print them myself. Uh and actually I don't use a rabbit anymore, I do a baby elephant. Um, and so I print them 90 at a time. You can't see this, but five feet that way are two 3D printers that are just like running all the time. Uh, and I have a candy dish full of elephants and rabbits and foxes and dogs near my house near my door. And when I go out, grab a handful of them, throw them on my pocket, and it's a really good giveaway. Uh, so it's just fantastic. A lot of people, like I don't think I've been trying to do a lot of sourcing on this effect. There's been a lot of different people who've done various things where you sculpt, sculpt salt or sugar or some powder into something. Uh, and I just Steve Pearson's is the one that inspired me. And I guess since we're on a double desert island, I would print them in tan so that it would be sand rabbit.
SPEAKER_03:So very small. Yeah, I like that. That's great. What was the shift to an elephant?
SPEAKER_01:Uh, I started playing with different creatures when I started printing it myself. Uh, because I know Trick Supply sells rabbits that are like they you can buy just one and do the routine where it like it's sort of recursive where it comes out of the packet and then goes back in. And then um they also sell a bunch of the rabbits so you can give them away. And then when I was like, well, I can 3D print these, uh, I started experimenting with different creatures. Uh, and the elephant model is just really cute and it's like round and fun, um, and it's immediately recognizable to what it is. And I kind of wanted to get away from the cliche of like a rabbit and a top hat with a magician. Uh, and so I've experimented with lots of different things. Um, and uh, and the elephant is just the one that gets like the cute, like the biggest reaction. Um, and I think it's just because it's the model I have is super cute.
SPEAKER_03:That's the kind of thing as well I can imagine. So, two things. Number one, it's a strange trick. It's it's a strange thing, so that's gonna stick in their minds. There's no other magician who's gonna have shown them that. So them explaining that that to their friends is gonna be amazing. And number two, they're never throwing that away. I would never throw that away. I bet it's something that stays with them for forever.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and the other the other nice thing is it's when people come back to the restaurant, they'll request tricks. And like like Double Cross has the problem where somebody goes, Can you do the trick with the X where it appears on my hand? Right? And you're like, Don't describe it that way. Ask me to ask to see the voodoo trick because they're giving you're giving away what happens, right? Whereas with this, when they walk back in, they go, Can you do the thing with the elephant? And everyone's like, What the hell are they talking about? And then suddenly a salt shaker's coming out, and they're like, What? What how he's doing a trick with an elephant assault shaker? Like, there's no way for them to get ahead of you with it. So it's it's got a really nice little thing with that.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that's a great one in at number five. Let's go to a number six, then. What's in your sixth spot?
SPEAKER_01:Uh, the sixth spot is a blue-backed card, uh, so that I can do the ambitious card. Uh, so I typically work with a red deck. I use the penguin marked deck and I use it in red. Um, and then I have an ambitious card routine that I do that's actually, I think you can get it for free on the IBM's website. I think they have it as like a downloadable PDF. Uh, I originally published it in a set of lecture notes for the Tricks Convention uh in uh the Carolinas. Uh and I have whenever somebody asks me to submit something to in like as like a bonus, it's often like what I will submit. Uh, it is a stupidly difficult ambitious card routine. Um uh what the the premise is I have somebody select a card and then I tell them that I'm going to do the ambitious card for them. And when they reveal their card, it's a face card. And so I I I sort of castigate them, I chastise them where I'm like, oh, you picked the wrong one. And the explanation is I'm gonna have I was gonna have you sign the card, but if face card, there's too much ink on it, I'll fix it. And then I turn the back of the card blue, and so then the ambitious card is you see the odd in the odd-colored back card rise into the top over and over again. I think that in general the ambitious card is a pretty weak trick, uh, because most of the time it's just a magician showing off how many card controls they can do, and then they finish with a card to impossible location, um, that so which takes it away from ambitious card. Not that it's like not that it can't be very enjoyable for an audience. I just think that it's like in the grand scheme of things that we can do, it's not great. Uh so with mine, the it sort of it also relates to the card to pocket where I was answering questions in different ways. And so when I realized that I could do the the indifferent colored back, it started, I started to go, well, what are ways I can secretly move this card around where they think that I'm moving it around? And uh it was it forced me to answer the questions that question in a bunch of different and interesting ways. Because typically with Ambitious Card, we are using the back of the cards as pseudo-duplicates. And in this version, I'm using the face of the card as a pseudo-duplicate. Um, so it just it it ends up with very interesting displays that sort of catch you off guard. It's also an exploration in timing and revealing. Uh, there's a great book by John Bannon called Dear Mr. Fantasy, and the opening is this bullet train aces. And the entire premise of bullet train aces is to mess with the internal timing and uh of uh an ace assembly. And so it's sort of the aces gather sooner than you would think they would or later than you would think they would, and it makes it a really interesting trick to watch. And it's the same with the the way I do ambitious card, so uh a blue-backed card.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, well, that's a really interesting idea, the idea of an ambitious card with an odd backed card, because uh, you know, the ambitious card inherently is not a visual trick, it it's a trick that I guess is framed in the mind of the audience. And there have been approaches over the years, obviously, we've got the pop-up move, which makes it a bit more uh visual. I think Tom Elderfield had a an interesting approach a few years ago where a card jumps to the top when you drop the deck. Uh I remember years ago as well, something called the Elegy Shift, um, which was a really interesting uh shift up the deck where it comes up the deck uh a bit at a time. But the idea of having the blue-backed card being the thing that always comes to the top is a really interesting and bold approach, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Uh I don't think that I'm the first one to get to that idea, but I do know that I answered the question in different ways. Interestingly, it started with uh I fell in love with a Benjamin Earl effect called Paper Switch, uh, which is if you don't know it, it's a transposition of two cards where the deck is just like not involved. It's a really clever thing. And I had started carrying a blue card around with me because I don't know why I thought this was a good idea, but I was trying to do paper switch where the faces of the cards transposed, but the backs didn't. And magicians could get it, but for lay people, it was way too high concept. They were just like, no, I I still have the blue card, or I still have the red card. Like they couldn't jump past. And I and I was showing this to Daniel Garcia, and and he said to me, uh, well, this trick doesn't know what it is yet. Like it's too convoluted. And so there a lot of the same moves and structures were there. It was just that presenting it as an ambitious card was a more uh straightforward way to do it. Uh and it it doubles into like it I love difficult sleight of hand with cards and for no other reason than I can do it. And I think it comes from my background as a juggler. Like jugglers are always pushing to do like more difficult things just to just because they can. And a lot of times, like I'll create routines with stupidly difficult moves for no other reason than it's fun to do those moves. Like the very first thing that happens in this ambitious card routine is something I call the Spanish train change, which is I second deal a double and do a Stuart Gordon turnover. I mean, it's it's it is it is needlessly difficult for no reason. Um uh and and I just love doing that. And so it's also one of those things that I teach it in my lectures, uh, and I go, You're never gonna do anything like this, but I think that you will find the logic behind the way the trick works interesting. Uh, but you shouldn't absolutely do a trick like this.
SPEAKER_03:I like that though. I think so many people love that challenge. Um, and certainly I think some magicians, I mean, uh you have to tell me how you think about this, but certainly people that I think work in magic, their hobby is magic as well. So you know it's your job, but it's also your hobby. And practicing magic, if it's your hobby, it isn't work, it doesn't feel like work, it's just enjoyable. And sometimes, like, I'm not a hardcore card guy, but practicing the diagonal palm shift is such a joyous thing, the way that it just sort of rolls into your palm, it's just such a nice thing that happens, automatic thing that happens. So, for you, is it when you're doing these really difficult things and putting these routines together, is it just because that's your hobby and you enjoy the practice of it as well?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely. Uh it's it very much lives in that world of this is just this is what I think is fun. Um you know, the because the the best solution is usually a simple solution. Uh there's a there's a a thing I say in one of my lectures uh on false shuffles where uh the efficiency of Is almost always more deceptive than technique. And it truly is like, you know, you think of some of like the crazy false shuffles out there, and uh a very simple like jog control is often like way more deceptive than like the most you know knuckle busting in the hands false riffle shuffle, right? And it just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, but it definitely lives in this world of I want to do this, right? Like, you know, there's a there's that great book from Dan and Dave, If an octopus could palm, that is full of just ridiculous. I mean, like, and I've worked on undertow for years just because it's it's a very pleasing move to do. And I think that a lot of sleight of hand just comes down to it's it's it was pleasing in somebody's hands, and that's why they continued to do it. Uh I was just at Magi Fest, and one of my favorite things that happened at Magi Fest was we were talking, we were I was with a group of people and we were talking about needlessly difficult things, and someone goes, Oh yeah, I learned every routine from uh Curtis Cam's Palms of Steel 3 Silverado. And I was like, You what? Can you do the can you do the uh the three fly where the the I I I kid you not, the routine is you produce three silver coins, you do a three fly, one by one the coins turn into copper coins, you do another three fly, then one by one they turn into Chinese coins, and then you do another three fly, and then they all vanish. And the method is basically you hold out 12 coins. It's uh it's it's crazy. And uh I will never forget seeing that and like working on it because it was difficult. And you know, you know, we sadly lost Curtis Cam last year, but I think that there was a lot of things that Curtis did with coins just because he could, right? Uh and watching that routine, watching somebody do that routine, obviously not as good as Curtis could do it, but watching somebody do that routine was just immensely pleasing to me because I knew all of the things behind it and I could tell that they were having fun doing it. Uh, and I think that's the reason I do my ambitious card the way I do, is because it's just it's it's stupidly difficult, and that's fun for me.
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SPEAKER_03:Well, I think that's a great one in it. Number six. Let's go to the tail end of your eight then. So we've got two more to go. Number seven, what's in your seventh spot?
SPEAKER_01:Uh in seventh spot is uh my coins across. It's I use I use three coins and an expanded shell. Um and I I know we don't generally talk method on on this particular podcast. Uh so I just, you know, an expanded shell is is in slot seven, and it's because of the way I use it in my uh coins across. I've been doing this coins across for literally 20 years now, and it opens every one of my restaurant sets, every table I approach, I I do it. And it is it's three coins that go across. Um, there's one flashback moment where a coin has gone across and then it jumps back immediately. Uh, and then the final thing is it happens in their hand. Uh, and I I've done many, many coins across over the years, and I really think that mine is very strong. It gets huge gasps, it's got some great visual moments. It's not a three-fly, it's a coins across. It happens in the hands. Uh and it's got some bold things, it's not terribly difficult. Uh, and it does include one Lani Chevry move that I have permission to teach, fortunately, from Lonnie. Uh, and when I and I love I love doing it for magicians because they see this Lani Chevri move and they go, where is that from? And I I get to I get to share something really cool with magicians. Uh and at the same time, it is it's dynamite with a laser beam. And one of the reasons that I do it for lay people is that one of the uh one of the problems of table hopping is you have to prove yourself over and over again, right? You have to walk up and convince a group of strangers, A, to watch magic, and b that magic is cool. Uh and that's kind of what this does. It's very fast. From the outset of the trick, something impossible happens, and then uh it just continues to ramp up in power while still being very quick. And so it's really difficult for anyone to look at the trick and go, I I don't want to see any more magic because I've I've instantly grabbed their attention. Um and you'd think that I would do something with cards to grab their attention, but no, it's the the coin trick is the one that I do. Uh I carry it with me in my shoulder bag that you see me with. Uh I've always got a set of coins in there that I can do it with. Uh it's it's got some really fun moves where I'm like, I'm I'm openly nesting or unnesting the shell in front of them to cause the thing to move back and forth. Uh and just the the rest of the way it's routined and the way I present the coins and let people look at stuff uh uh destroys any notion of me using a gimmick coins, which is which is interesting. Uh and then there's uh there's a pretty bold cleanup um that resets it interest uh that resets the whole thing instantly as it goes away. Uh and so that that coins across is is something that I've probably got and there's lots of detailed nuanced stuff in it. Interestingly, it's the trick we use when we film with penguin. Um so when when you come to film with us and we take you out to go perform uh perform in bars, uh I will approach the group uh and I will tell them that we're going to we bring magicians to town. Like a lot of people think that we set up these groups, we don't. It's we almost the uh they're not they're not ringers, they're not actors. They're a lot of times you see the same people in demos because because people in Columbus, Ohio know where we film, and so they'll know that we're we tend to be out on like these kinds of days, and so they'll bring friends to these bars because they know that they could see some magic. Uh and uh I will approach the group and I'll say hi. And the approach is always hi, my name is Eric. I'm so sorry to interrupt. Uh, I work with the local film crew. We bring magicians from all over the world to Columbus, Ohio to perform for uh for folks and we film it for YouTube. Today I brought someone from Canada or China or Chicago or New York or where or the UK or wherever. Would you like to see some tricks? They say yes, and I go, Great, I'm gonna show you one trick to get you warmed up, and then I will introduce this uh this person. And the trick I almost always do is my coins across. And it's it's for all of the reasons that I just told you. It convinces them that magic is cool, that they're gonna see something great, uh, and it blows them away, and then they're ready to go, and they've they've all they're already reacting to stuff before we bring people in. Uh, and so it's I I just I do it a lot. I I've got a lot of work on that trick.
SPEAKER_03:Wow, I think that's an excellent choice. Is this something that you've taught on on a lecture somewhere?
SPEAKER_01:It is. Uh the write-up of it is in my uh a set of notes I have called A Lecture Brought to You by Comedy. Uh it is it's not it's it's a set of lecture notes not about comedy magic. It's inspired by the fact that I get booked on a lot of com for in a lot of comedy clubs, on a lot of comedy festivals and comedy shows like stand-up. And it's it's not because I'm funny. I am funny. I am a stand-up comic, but the reason I get booked is because I'm fun to hang out with in a bar. And so it's all the stuff I do in a bar. So coins across, I actually do uh Ramsey's cylinder and coins, but I do it with uh a borrowed dollar bill instead of a leather cylinder. Um there's uh uh there's some different card pieces in there. There's a metal bending piece, a coin a signed coin bin that happens inside of a medicine bottle. I teach it at all of my live events. Um and uh Penguin is actually currently working on uh uh gimmicked coins. Uh so we came out with uh we came out with uh arcade coin. So that was uh uh a riff on Scotch and Soda. Uh now we we put out um game changer, which is a riff on the uh the electronic rating pen or the diamond penny. Uh we're working on other gimmick coins with real currency, and we are working on expanded shells. And I I might teach my coins across on the expanded shell when we do release that. Um it's uh I'm pretty proud of it, and I I'd love for more people to see it. But I teach it, I I've taught it many, many times. Uh I'm actually uh if you see me in Blackpool and we're sitting around chatting in the Ruskin, you want to learn it, like tell me. I'll I'll be happy to show it to you.
SPEAKER_03:There you go. Everyone swamp him. Uh, because this will be going out Blackpool week, so this is gonna be fresh in everyone's brains. Um, but before we go to your last one, it's kind of interesting looking at your list as well, because we've gone from a a ring flight, a card to pocket, we've got mental photography, cups and balls, sugar bunny, um, we've got a blue back card for the ambitious card and coins across. Every one of your routines or effects that you've picked are very different.
SPEAKER_01:I I think it really comes down to looking for strength and speed. So I cut my teeth as a bar magician back in the day. Uh so long time ago, I was the very first bar magician at a theater called Magicopolis, which is now called uh the Illusion Magic Lounge in Santa Monica. Um, and one of the things I learned as a bar magician is that you've got to be able to get into and out of the trick very quickly because if somebody comes up and needs a drink, they don't want to wait around for that drink. You need to be able to do whatever it is. So a lot of stuff ends up being just, you know, not multi-phase, pretty, you know, I and I can I can put them all together so that they they run together. Uh, you know, my my coins across these days ends with a jumbo coin production, and that jumbo coin ends up coming back through other card routines. I have a way of producing a jumbo coin from a deck of cards that's kind of fun and visual. Uh and the jumbo coin can can come back over and over again various times and can be a through line, but also once that jumbo coin comes out, it never has to come back again. It can be just like its own thing that exists in that moment. Um, same with the the rabbit, uh, the you know, or flight 101. It they're not multi-phase, they just happen, then you can move on. Um and the it's the same with with uh table hopping in a restaurant. Um, I gotta be able to stop what whatever it is, and they need to think that they because the server could come with drinks or food or or whatever, or that people may have to leave because their Uber got here. And they need to feel like they saw the strongest possible thing at that moment. Um, so it it's a lot of this stuff is not necessarily it's I'm not intentionally choosing things that are different, but I do think that I choose things based on the fact that I have uh outside of magic, I have a well-rounded life with different enthusiasms for stuff. Um, you know, I play pinball, I build computers, I have fun with Lego, I uh, you know, love my dogs, I you know, do stuff in 3D printing and play around the house. I've you know, this robot combat. I I need to go to Bristol and compete in the robot combat in Bristol. Uh, but it's it's very much uh I look for strength and speed in the areas where I'm working consistently. Now it's different when I'm putting together a stage show or formal close-up, because now I might be trying to like weave threads of things together and create something that has an overall strength. And you may not understand where things are going, but it will all tie together in the end. Um uh for example, in my stage show, the card to pocket that open that you know we just discussed opens the show, and that card ends up being integral to the finale of the show where a sign card ends up inside of a sealed deck of cards. Um and I'm just using them in different ways in different areas uh of it. So uh it's it's not chosen for oddness, it's chosen for speed and strength.
SPEAKER_03:Amazing. So it's almost like most people try and look for routines that are modular, but you're putting your sets together so that they're modular, so that they can be stopped and and intertwined and put in different positions dependent on the scenario you're in.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and and also the I'm I'm still looking for tricks that can be modular, and then the set is modular as well. So it's it's pieces and parts that can be taken, can be uh started and stopped at any point and then get back into it, right? Like if I'm having tremendous fun with a table and then somebody comes and they need to have a uh answer a question for an order, I can either choose to stop right there or I can wait for that to be done and then launch back into it. And it's almost like I've started a new set or a new trick, even if I'm still inside of the other trick. Uh but yeah, modular is definitely uh a thing that's always been a part of the back of my mind as I continue to do close-up in these environments.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think that sounds super smart, really, really smart. Uh, and it does lead us into number eight. So, anyone playing Eric Tate Bingo, see what you think he might put in now. Um, I'm not sure where this can go because of the interesting nature of this list, the fact that everything's so different. Are we gonna go back to cards? Are we gonna go back to coins? Are we gonna have another sugar bunny moment? We're not sure. Let's find out. What did you put in your final spot?
SPEAKER_01:Uh, so anyone who listens to my podcast knows that uh whenever someone brings up mentalism, my instant response is gross. Um, but uh it's a mentalism trick, and it's probably gonna surprise you. Uh, it's actually uh given that this is the Blackpool episode, I fell in love with this trick at Blackpool. Uh, and it's mental block, or people know it as the television box or the color vision box. Uh, the one you know, you probably recognize it's like usually a little blue box with a little dye in it that's got six different colors. You put it on top and you can know what it is. Um few years ago, Dan Harlan put out a version of the color vision box called Mental Block. Uh, it was a really handsome wooden box, and then inside was a children's block with different colors, shapes, and all that stuff on there. Uh, and then last year we put out mental block dice, and I got to work on it. Um, and mental block dice was probably my my favorite little trick because when I did it at Blackpool, I fooled the hell out of magicians with it, like over and over and over again. A, because uh they weren't able to connect this classic little blue box with this handsome wooden box. Uh, and they had sort of forgotten that they all got it in a magic kit when they were kids and they didn't know how it was working. And they were like, Oh, is it electronic? And I'm like, No, it's not. It's great. You could you can hand everything out. And then the fact that I was using a die allowed me to use qualities of the dice to change the way they were interacting with it. So I was always just a little bit further ahead than they were, and they just had no idea how I was getting these numbers. And then there's a really fun kicker ending that Dan came up with where the block vanishes. Uh, and so it's so you're doing this mentalism thing and you're reading their mind and divining the number, and then uh at the end of it, the block vanishes, and they're just not ready for a magic trick to happen in the middle of a mentalism effect. And it's super fun. Uh, and the other thing that I really like about it is not not just that I was able to use something from a children's magic kit to fool people who really should have known better. Uh it was it is because uh I so I'm a big fan of the jerks blog, uh, like many magicians are. And one of my favorite things he talks about in the blog over and over again is this idea of magic that invites itself to be performed. And so I have this trick on my mantle in my house. And so when I have people over, sometimes they'll come over and they'll go, Oh, what's this box? And I'll go, Oh, I'll show you. This is a neat thing. Uh and it like, so they're asking to see the trick, and I'm not having to introduce it. And it's just, and back when I was in uh uh when I was in a I was had an office job for manufacturing, I used to keep things like that on my desk where someone would go, What is this? And I go, Oh, let me show you what it does. And so it's magic that invites itself to be performed. And this is because it's a beautiful little wooden box, people are interested in it and they want to know what it is. And if you leave the lid off and they're like, Why is there a dice in this box? Like they they want to know more about it. Uh, and it's just it's been super fun to have that. So it's I I generally don't perform mentalism, but I love this trick. It's super, super fun.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I love the mental block. I think it's such a great trick. And uh I think what's really interesting about what you guys have done with that is the inclusion of the dice. Like, why has that not been done before? It makes absolute sense to have a die that you put in the box so it's uh a secret you can't see it, um, over maybe a colour block, which again uh I I know you can justify, but it makes absolute sense to have that die. So I think that's a brilliant idea.
SPEAKER_01:You know, the funny thing is uh we had never intended to put out a version with a die in it. We were working on a different trick that used this wooden die, and then for one reason or another, that other trick never came out, but we had all of these dice, and someone noticed that it fit in the same box, and we were like, oh, this works. And then when I started playing with the routine, I was like, Oh, this is better than the children's block because of all the other things you could do with it. Uh, it it became a really great update that it was it was just sort of born on accident, and uh, and I'm just thrilled with it.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think that's a great way to round out your list. We started with Flight 101, uh, we went to card to pocket, mental photography for deck, uh, cups and balls, sugar rabbits, we had a blueback card for ambitious card, we had coins across, and then mental block. A great, great list, full of uh it's a very, very diverse list, full of different ideas and thoughts. It's great.
SPEAKER_01:I'll add one honorable mention that I almost put in. Absolutely, go for it. Uh, forks for metal bending. I love metal bending. Uh, the very first tricks that I published years ago were metal bending stuff. And I was just hanging out at Magi Fest with Mysterious Max, which reminds me after I get off this call, I have to email him an old set of notes. Uh, but uh I have been getting back into fork bending, and it's so much fun. Uh, whether you're doing the Banachek stuff or the Australand stuff or combining it all the same way Morgan Strebler did into like liquid metal, um metal bending with forks is super fun. And it it it almost made the list, but I had to go with other stuff because I don't perform it as often as I used to.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that's a great honorable mention. All of us at Alkazam perform uh with forks because we absolutely love them. Uh but Eric, we gave you eight tricks and an honorable mention, but we're only gonna give you one each of your remaining choices. So I want you to imagine that you're about to dig a big sandy hole on your island, and you're gonna throw something inside never to be seen again. What are you gonna banish on your island?
SPEAKER_01:All of rope magic. Just all of it. Just take all the ropes, put them in the hole. Just the right everything. Just everything. No, I mean, so I do one piece of rope magic in my show, and it's The Awakening by Dan Harlan. Uh which is uh fun trick, and and I actually present it as uh the reason I don't like rope magic, but most rope magic to me looks like a puzzle. And it's not, it doesn't look like magic, it looks like somebody presenting a puzzle. Uh and I have no problem with people presenting puzzles as entertainment. I just don't think it looks magical. Maybe it's because my magic brain instinctively knows where all of the extra bits are, anything like that. But the only person I've ever seen do magic with ropes that look like magic was Francis Tabary. And everyone else doing Francis Tabbery's routine looks like they're presenting a puzzle and not performing magic. Uh, I just don't like it. I think it's I think it's wrong and awful and terrible, and and you should all stop doing it. Please, please, and thank you.
SPEAKER_03:But you know what? The the whole point of the banishment is to get people to think about things in different ways. And I've never heard anyone say uh that it's almost like presenting uh a puzzle. I think that's really interesting. You know, even the the three rope trick, I guess technically, um is a puzzle. I guess it is that's exactly what it is. Even if you took the magic element out and you said, I've got a small rope, a medium rope, and a long rope, how would I make these all the same length? It then almost becomes a bar bet or a or a challenge. It does become exactly what you just said. It's just a puzzle.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think that's why I like the awakening so much, is that it fooled me for so long before I I got a hold of it when Dan taught it, and I was like, oh man, this is great. Because the tip because with the awakening, you have a small, medium, and a long rope that you can separate and open your hands. And then you make them all the same size and you separate them again and you open your hands. And like this is this is very clearly a trick. And I think most of the time I see other things happening. It's just like there's it's it doesn't look like magic because you're holding the ropes in so many different ways, and the ropes are crossing over here, and they're doing this, and it just like there's just a lot of stuff going on, and it it it sort of gets back to that uh confusion isn't magic, magic is clarity. And I think that a lot of times when you're showing people magic with ropes, it it's just confusing to look at, at least for me. There's very little rope magic to me that looks like magic just because of what's happening.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so I'm gonna caveat this. If I was to take the rope that we're about to banish in in that big hole, and I was to mix in, say, a ring, would that change it for you? Would we then keep rope if I added another prop to it?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, absolutely. Uh but I think that it that that actually addresses the fundamental problem that I have, which is confusion is not magic, clarity is magic. And I think that more often than not, when you're doing a ring and rope routine, the ring is very clearly on the rope, the ring is very clearly off the rope. Look at Charming Chinese Challenge by Troy Hoosier. That's effectively a ring and rope, but close-up. Uh, there's a lot of really great routines where a ring is threaded onto a rope, it's tied up, and then you put a wand in someone's hand and the ring vanishes from the wall uh from the rope and appears on the wand. I mean, it's not clear as to why we're doing this, but that also gets back to the fact that if we had real powers and we were using it this way, it'd be a jerk. Um so it's the the adding the ring changes what you're doing. Whereas a lot of times it's just the ropes are changing sizes, but like, are they changing size? Because he's holding a fistful of rope over here and not over here. You know, there's a great Dan Harlan has a really great trick where he does a torn and or he does a cut and restored rope uh where he repeats where he takes the knot off and puts it over here, but then later on a dollar bill vanishes and appears in the knotted rope. And it's like, okay, well, we did all of this stuff to create this knot over here that becomes an impossible location. Like I don't want to throw that away because I think that's great, right? But a lot of the I'm gonna use my fingers to cut this, and I've got two ropes, now I've got four, now I've got one. Like that's that's the stuff that I have an issue with.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so all of the rope is now in the big sandy hole. Rope is gone, unless, guys, you have a ring. In which case you can keep your rope. Uh, we're gonna go to, I'm guessing, the hardest from your list, because you said that you're a big book reader and you're a big book fan, and we've only allowed you one, Eric. So what did you go for?
SPEAKER_01:Uh so I actually went downstairs and looked at my library and said to myself, what would I be? And so I was like, you know, I love I love the card finesse books by John Rockerbaumer. Those are those books are really good, and and I love uh uh I love stripper decks. So I you know I was thinking it might be a new angle by uh Ryan Pl uh Ryan Plunkett and uh Michael Feldman. Uh, but I ended up coming back to one book that I go back to over and over and over again because it's really pretty, the magic is elegant, and it's got some interesting thoughts in it, and that is uh the Desert Island book for me is The Secrets of So Sato by Richard Kaufman. It's really uh it's really illustrative of this unique approach to card magic that is fundamental to a different country. So you have this really interesting magic from Japan that looks nothing like most magic from the United States or Spain or France or anything like that. It's really interesting. Uh it's a mix of difficult stuff and easy stuff, classic plots, new plots. His bushfire triumph is a really fascinating look where he's just it appears like he's just tossing cards face up and face down, and then the the deck sorts itself. Uh I've used his all backs routine for years. Um it's a it's a really great approach to all backs with uh a deck of cards. Uh and if it hadn't, and that it was it came out the same year a new angle came out. And if it hadn't been for a new angle, I think that that would have been the book of the year. Uh, but it's a it's another one for me that like a lot of people slept on. They did not realize how good this material is. Uh, it's got a DVD in the back, so you can see So Sato perform the effects uh in Japanese, because he doesn't speak English, uh, or at least didn't at the time of the book. Uh, but it's it's a really it's a really great book with lots of really interesting stuff. And I find myself going back to it over and over again just because I really like the way Richard writes, I really like the way So thinks. Um, and uh yeah, it's uh so that's that's it for me, is is that.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think it's a great choice. And I remember growing up, the the books that I really loved were you know New Magic of Japan, Five Times Five Japan. Um, and I remember the the magic was so different in those those books. They have an interesting way of thinking about things, even things like origami, there were some great bill tears and stuff like that in those books, which were just very clever origami or or ways of folding stuff. So it's so nice that over the years more of the Japanese creators have have been focused on like Sosato.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It you know, speaking of 5x5 Japan, there was uh I was just going back through it recently. I was like, I was looking for tricks to like start working on again, and uh it was like I kind of you know I got that itch. I want to create something, I want to I want to work on something. And there's a great trick in 5x5 Japan where you have a card selected, it gets lost back in the deck, and then you say, I don't want to know what it is, what color is it? And they go red or black or whatever it is, and you go, Great, I'll make all of those cards, but that one disappear. And then the deck goes down. And I've just I've been playing with that trick for a few weeks now because it was just like, what a great idea to have the the deck visually compress and like and remove all of the cards except for that color. Like it's just a such a great idea. Um, and it's and those books are full of of that kind of stuff. And Sosato's approach to card magic is just really fantastic. Uh, if you haven't read the book, you absolutely should check it out.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think that's a great one in your book position, but very sadly leads us on to the last thing. So if you were to take a non-magic item that you use for magic, what would it be?
SPEAKER_01:A solar-powered computer with access to Penguin's digital archive.
SPEAKER_03:That's very specific. Very specific.
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah, I'm the archivist for penguins, so I would uh I I know where all the stuff is. So that way I can get around your whole like only one book thing. No, my real answer, my real answer, my real non non-magic thing that I would take uh is a nail file. Um I I'm gonna I'm gonna briefly plug a penguin product in order to explain why the nail file. Uh so we have this effect, the this trick out called Dragon Scale. And if you don't know what it is, it's a high precision scale that's hidden inside of a card box. Uh, if a deck is in a known order, then it can tell you you can cut off a packet and knows everything about that deck, uh, about that packet. Um, typically people use it in mnemonica, but you can do it in kind of whatever. Um, Nick Le Capo and I had Dragon Scale on the road for five years before anyone saw it. Like no one knew that Penguin was working on this. And Nick's worked, and mine didn't. And it was mine would always be off by one or two cards. And we we changed my phone, we changed my unit, and Nick's would work consistently and mine wouldn't. And one day, and this pro and honestly, like this this thing probably delayed the release of Dragon Scale because we couldn't figure out what was going on. And then one day somebody goes, Eric, are you using your personal working deck with Dragon Scale or are you using a new one? And I'm using my working deck. Why would I? And they were like, Well, do you have all that weird stripper work and like clipped corners and stuff? And I was like, Oh yeah. I use a nail file to alter every deck, whether it's shorting a corner, shorting a card, doing some weird stripper stuff. Uh, and so if you like, if you actively looked at my deck, it would look like it was being chewed on by uh a chipmunk. Uh, but it's because I've removed material. And when you put that my removed cards into mnemonica, uh, those all get biased towards the top. And so when you cut the deck, it it the scale would think it was missing a card or two, which is how sensitive the scale is. Uh, and so I use a nail file to alter a deck of cards all the time.
SPEAKER_03:That would have been so annoying.
SPEAKER_01:It was infuriating.
SPEAKER_03:The the tiniest thing as well. Yeah. And so how long did it take you to discover that that was the reason? I mean, like a year. Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's probably delayed dragon scale by a year because we we couldn't figure out what was going on. Because I would I would bring it in, I would be like, look, it doesn't work, it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And they'd be like, Oh, okay, we'll take it, we'll work on the code and stuff like that. It made it better, but it definitely was like it was like, oh, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So what are the things that you work into your deck with your nail file? What if you were to give us say two things that you do to your deck that you you have to do that every time, what other two things you do?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, corner shorts. Uh corner shorts and uh and uh and then a short card. There's different stuff you can do. Like you can you can make a short card on uh you know the the the short edge or the long edge, you can do the corners. Uh you can if you do if it is a stripper deck, you can use the nail file to like fix the corners so that they are rounded. Uh it's just more versatile than a blade. Um and uh and a blade is it's really difficult to remove uh thousandths of an inch. Um uh because I because I do 3D printer stuff, I have a set of calipers that is like high precision. So it's you don't need to remove very much material to make it effective. And so uh and and what you're doing. So it's uh it's easier to go by degrees, by small amounts, and make make a uh change, an alteration to a card with a nail file or an emory board, really, uh, than uh than it is with a blade. You know in the pr in the precision that I'm trying to work in.
SPEAKER_03:It's also super convenient. The the idea that you you may be out somewhere, you can just pick up an a nail file and then make your own deck. It's really, really clever. It's a really great way to do it. You just have it on hand all the time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah, it's just uh I used to not talk about this stuff a lot, and uh and now I talk about it fairly openly because it's one of those things that I I think that we should be uh putting secrets down. Uh we should uh you don't have to make it accessible, but you don't want to lose secrets forever. And it's it definitely this lives in that area of a lot of people have come to the same conclusion that I have, but they didn't write it down because they wanted to keep a secret and keep it inaccessible. So I'm just like, no, I'm talking about it. I'm like, no, it's the secret's out. Go for it.
SPEAKER_03:So I think that is a brilliant list. We'll read it one more time. It was Elite 101, cards of pocket, mental photography deck, cups and balls, sugar rabbits, blueback card with ambitious cardio, coins across, mental block but with a dice, which is really clever. Uh, banishment is rope magic, all of rope magic, unless you've got a ring, then you can keep it. Your book is The Secrets of So Sato, and your item is a nail file. A brilliant, brilliant list, Eric. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for having me. And if people want to find out more about you, Eric, about your lectures, your lecture notes, which you've spoken to us about, uh, up-and-coming things that you're involved in, where can they go to?
SPEAKER_01:The best thing to do is go on my Instagram. It's just at Eric Tate at E-R-I-I-K-T-A-I-T, or you can reach out to me through my website, erictate.com, uh, and listen to the podcast. Go to podcast.penguinmagic.com. I almost always talk about upcoming live appearances, whether it's at a convention or a theater uh on the podcast. It usually sort of closes it out to let people know where I am. Um, and uh, and I'll of course uh all things penguin. So check out the penguin YouTube page. Uh, I do I do a lot of stuff there.
SPEAKER_03:Of course, do you go find Eric at uh I'm guessing you're at Blackpool this year with Penguin?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I'll be on the stand uh every day. Uh me and Craig Petty, we have uh we actually have a brand new Tobias Dostal trick that is going to be out. Uh so if you come by the Penguin Stand, you can see a brand new trick from Tobias Dostall that we are dropping at Blackpool. And uh other than that, when I'm not on the stand, I'll be in the Ruskin drinking a nice creamy pint of bitter.
SPEAKER_03:And showing everyone your coins across.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_03:Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time, Eric. Thank you. Take care. And thank you all for watching, slash, listening. Remember, if you want to be one of the guests on our stranded with the stranger episode, send in your list of eight tricks. One banishment one, booker one, non-magic item to sales at alakazan.uk, uhco.uk, sorry. Uh put in the description my desert island tricks, that way it comes through to me. And don't forget to put in a little bit of a bio and also why you chose those. Uh, please do go check out Eric's uh stuff. There's so much in that episode that's gonna make me think about uh the routine. Certainly the coins across. I've really been looking at different coins across over the past couple of years, and it sounds like an absolutely phenomenal one. So do go up to him at Blackpool as well, tell him that you listen to this episode that he so that he knows uh his time wasn't in vain. Uh, and of course, we'll see you all next week with another episode. But for now, have a great week. Goodbye.
SPEAKER_00:The news is out. The 1914 has found a new home. We are proud to announce that Alakazam Magic are now the proud custodians of the 1914. What does this mean for you? Simply put, everything you love stays exactly where it belongs. The aesthetic, the quality, the philosophy. The website remains unchanged. Your instructional content is safe. The classics that defined the 1914 will be restocked and made available once again. And with our industry-leading infrastructure and customer service behind the scenes, the future is stronger than ever. But this isn't just about preservation. Work has already begun on a series of new 1914 releases. Projects that have been quietly evolving for years and are finally ready to see the light of day. This is the next chapter. Built on respect for the past, driven by belief in the future. Thank you for your continued support. Thank you for coming along with us on this journey. We are the new 1914.
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