Desert Island Tricks
Each week we invite one of the biggest guests in the world of magic to maroon themselves on a desert island. They are allowed to take with them 8 tricks, 1 book, 1 banishment and 1 non magic item that they use for magic! We discuss their 'can't live without' lists and why those items were chosen.
Episodes are uploaded every Friday and are available via all Podcast service providers!
To find out more about the team behind Desert Island Tricks, please visit: www.alakazam.co.uk
Desert Island Tricks
Vince Wilson
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What makes a trick live past the applause? We say it’s story, meaning that travels with people when real life hits them in the face outside the venue. With Vince Wilson, we unpack the craft of bizarre magic as a storytelling engine that any performer can use to make their show unforgettable. Vince traces his path from paranormal investigation to skeptical, theatre-first magic and explains why narrative, metaphor, and mood beat out raw method when you want your work to stick.
Together we build an “island set” that doubles as a masterclass in framing. An Okito doll becomes a Blair Witch-flavoured parable, a tea reading paints initials with ash and memory, and Odyssey transforms under the lens of folklore “glamour,” turning a visual illusion into a lesson in influence. We go deep on repurposing mainstream props like Prestige through alchemical “equivalent exchange,” proving that originality often lies in language, not hardware. The Witches of Glastonbury lands a portable fable about choice and fear, while a Grim Fairy Tales book test and Pegasus page highlight staging, justification, and the art of not overselling examinability.
For scale and pace, tossed-out tarot unlocks room-wide engagement and even a nimble Q&A, powered by ethical cold reading and sharp observation. Then the closer: a lean, consent-forward PK Touches that’s devastating precisely because it’s simple. Vince shares practical guidance on consent lines, pacing, and why over-verification breaks the spell. He also makes a bold case for burying published patter so every magician must find their own voice, because sincerity can’t be borrowed, and booking agents can spot stock lines a mile away.
If you want your magic to be remembered tomorrow, this conversation gives you the tools today: justify every choice, give your props provenance, and let your script reflect who you are!
Vince’s Desert Island Tricks:
1. Voodoo Doll Stickman
2. Tea
3. Odyssey
4. The Prestige
5. Witches of Glastonbury
6. Sandman Book Test
7. Tossed Out Tarot
8. PK Touches
Banishment. Published scripts
Book. Daemon’s Diary
Item. Chinese Fortune Coins
Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
Um, sometimes one of my challenges I do for myself is like I like a piece a lot, but it doesn't fit my personality. So I could I have two ways of doing it. I can either not do it because it doesn't fit at all, or I can find a not too convoluted explanation for why I'm using that. So, for example, a piece I recently added to my repertoire of main string main pieces, which was shown to me by Peter Samelson. So, how do I justify for a Vince Wilson show? So we're gonna flip through this and everything you think you say is something you see, everything you think you see is something that I say you saw, even if you didn't see what you think you saw. Does that make sense? And he'll say no. If you said yeah, good. If you said yes, I'd be worried. And I flip through the magazine and say the first image is of a woman who's experiencing the opposite of what the words say. I just want you to focus on the top of the advertisements, the advertisements in here. The first thing you see is the opposite of what the words say, the woman is experiencing. And she's the she's looks, she looks frazzled, and it says, I am so delighted. You know, and the audience, of course, is seeing something completely different because she is mesmerized by the power of glamour.
SPEAKER_01:I'm incredibly excited for today's guest. Today's guest is someone that I met earlier on this year at the East Coast Spirit Sessions at Myrtle Beach in America, which is a bizarre magic small convention, I guess is the best way of putting it. Um, and when I was there, I got to meet some incredible people, but I'd actually been talking to today's guest for a little while before because I'd come across his book. Now, his book I had seen pictures of everywhere on my Facebook feed from any kind of bizarrist and quite a few mentalists as well. His book is Bizarre Magic, and from that point on, I started looking into his background and I discovered that he actually owns the Pose Magic Theatre in Baltimore. And this is where they do the Pose Magic Conference uh every year in April, just coming up actually at the time of recording. Uh, and hopefully one day I'll get out there as well to see it. Now, when we were over there, Vince is a much loved uh bazaarist, mentalist, and performer in America. And if you haven't heard of him, then number one, I really hope this podcast makes you intrigued and gets you to search out about Vince and find out more about him. Uh, but more than that, I hope that people hear the passion and the knowledge uh that Vince has. It's quite clear when you talk to Vince, he really does have a strong love for our art. He thinks deeply about it as well. And I know that this is going to be such an incredible episode. I'm really excited for all of you to hear uh from him. He is, of course, the wonderful Vince Wilson.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you for having me on. Yeah, so it's those were very wonderful words you spoke about me. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Some of them might actually be true.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, but he didn't tell me about your interesting background choices.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yeah. So it was uh I uh was into the paranormal and supernatural for quite a bit of my life. Um, in fact, I was even a uh paranormal investigator and a certified parapsychologist at one point, uh, having been uh those sorts of uh efforts had gotten me on multiple uh international TV shows and channels and things like that. Um I didn't stay in that uh uh field for lack of a better term for very long, because with the advent of TV shows, uh thanks to the the uh no doubt thanks to part due to this had the that's starting in the UK, I believe, was the first paranormal TV shows that were a regular reality TV phenomenon. Um I got out of it because it became a cesspool of toxicity and just conspiracy theories and was mixing uh faith with pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo. Um, and I became more skeptical as I delved more into magic uh and uh specifically storytelling theatrical storytelling. So, yes, and I guess that is an interesting background to some degree.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So what what do you describe yourself as as a performer? Are you a bizarrist, a storyteller, a mentalist?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, bizarrist first, I think. But I would also say that the uh and then storytelling, the theatrical storytelling magician, for lack of better terms. Bazaar automatically conjures uh little specks of skulls and you know, and handles and bolt and the arcane and things like that. It doesn't have to, though. Uh Bazaar, I think, has a lot to teach any magician uh about power of narrative structure, storytelling, and things along those slides. And in fact, I would argue that the greats of the golden age of magic, which we all have those posters in our walls, the you know, Thirst and Keller, Blackstone, the font, etc. etc., um, they were bizarre magicians. They were bizarre magicians more than they were mainstream magicians, more than they were uh, you know, uh what we would call a magician today. All right, they uh floating heads and uh references to demonology and the occult were often in those those grand spectacles of yesteryear. And uh a lot of magicians have forgotten that. You know, the uh metaphor storytelling will re will connect with audiences more than crick do. Most magic these days are cricks strung together in a loosely coherent way, as opposed to a a structure that makes sense. And uh although that is very enter that can be very entertaining, don't get me wrong. Um bizarre magic teaches magicians is what happens when they leave the venue. Um, you know, as most magic is in the now. You when you do your your uh magic tricks, your card tricks, spongeballs, you know, linking rings, no matter how sp spectacular they are, um, and what kind of standing ovation you get at the end of your show, uh when they walk out the back door, they're being hit in the face with reality. They're being smacked, you know, right away with real life. You know, the the the the artificial universe you created in that um in that venue is quickly fading away into oblivion with the reality of kids and work and uh in school and such, you know, the the the argument you had yesterday, the the uh you know the the death in the family, all these sorts of things are are fighting for control of the memories they have of what you perform. If you can counteract that to a degree with emotional connections, narrative structure, metaphors, metaphors have a the most are the most powerful way to connect with an audience. You know, uh the that emotional connection you create with them, that what's is what makes them remember. And that's what bizarre magic offers, magicians, even if you're not into the spooky stuff, you don't have to be. You can uh but it but the aspect of storytelling is important, and not enough magicians recognize that today.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree. And how did the pose magic theater come about? How did that manifest itself?
SPEAKER_03:Well, obviously it's named after Edgar Allan Poe, the great American uh uh writer and poet who's actually buried in Baltimore City, um, only two blocks away from the hotel where the theater is located at. Uh it came about because I wanted to bring magic back to my hometown, which is Baltimore City. Okay. It is a uh often underappreciated and uh uh profiled uh town in Baltimore City, in the United States, uh, Baltimore Cities. And um and I wanted to bring magic to the heart of that, magic that gives opportunities to other magicians. I mean, here's another great magic venue in Baltimore, uh, but the that is a venue for a specific magician, and they're doing a great job there, but I want to give opportunities to other magicians to perform and get their names out in Baltimore City, you know, besides myself. I didn't want to be a vanity project for Vince Wilson. I want to give opportunities to other magicians with a focus on storytelling. Uh, do I have magicians who are just mainstream magicians? Yes, and I shouldn't have said it like that because there's the not less mainstream magicians. Uh I'm not trying to say that bizarre magic is inherently better, but I think magic is inherently better when it has meaning behind it.
SPEAKER_01:So, in terms of this list that you put together, is it inherently uh bizarre magic or have you gone for a range of different things?
SPEAKER_03:I go for a range of different things. You know, the uh for myself, the um, you know, the Eugene Berger's a big influence on me, of course. You know, the uh but also um an even uh bigger name that is historically speaking would be uh Tony Andruzi. Uh um, you know, he was a major influence on my style of performance, the the athletic flair I try to put into every performance I do uh and how I articulate uh the scripts I perform on stage, uh the verbiage and pattern I use. Um you know, the uh you know, the the the storytelling magicians are the are definitely those who have influenced you the most. So I definitely read the uh about those golden age magicians and how they performed. I I don't think I would play today because those shows were three to four hours long. Uh it was an orchestra pick and an MC that would come out and um and a uh intermission for drinks and hors d'oeuvres, and then you would come back into the opera house and um and uh and see more magic. But the I do think the most successful magicians and the most well-known magicians, they have found that alchemical combination of uh performance styles, for lack of a better term, that has uh elevated them to the level they are at uh through because they understand that aspect of meaning, whether they are forming mentalism uh or like Jaron Brown, for example, or the the or they are doing uh storytelling like uh Larry Haas or Eugene Berger.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, well, that excites me. Let's get into it then. So if this is your first time listening, the idea is we're about to maroon Vince on his very own, probably quite spooky island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks, banish one item, take one book and one non-magic item that he uses for magic. Particulars, who's there, what's there, uh, how many skeletons are gonna be there. It's all down to Vince. Uh so let's go to your island now, Vince, and find out what you put in your first position.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I would definitely open up with my Okito doll routine. Okay, so in which I use uh uh Rolando Medina's stick man, the best Okido doll on the market, in my opinion. And I tell a story, I say, um, have you ever heard of a town in Maryland, the United States, called Birkittsville? You never heard of Birkitsville, Maryland? See, it's where they filmed a movie called The Blair Witch Project. Yes. In the um in the in the movie to talk about a witch, you I don't have to go over the plot, but I was driving past her on my way back from Virginia, and I came across a gravestone I had never seen before. As I walked, took my stepshead, the graveyard, as you do. I'm sure you do that as well, right? Yeah, you take a little stroll through the cemetery. And I never crossed a gravestone I've never seen before. It had a woman's name on it. Uh I think it was an Irish name, a Lucy Fur is what it was. Lucy Fur? You never heard of Lucy Fur? No? Okay, never mind. Then I understand she's quite famous. Um, anyway, on top Lucy Fur. Yeah, so sometimes I'm too hip for the room. Anyway, uh, I take the um on top of the gravestone was a wooden box. It had chrysanthemums carved at the top. As you know, chrysanthemums go back to ancient Greece. They ward off evil or contain it within. So I opened it right up, obviously. And inside I discovered this little wooden doll. I don't have it with me right now, but it's a little is a lot of Medina's doll. And that uh I open up with that for most of my shows. Um when they are allowed that to be uh big discussion anyway. Um that's a great little piece. It gets the uh very interact a lot of interaction from the audience, and uh and I you I I say there's like does it remind you of a movie? And they'll say uh Blair Witch Project, because I just mentioned it. I said, no, toy story, of course. You know, the the power of imagination makes the toy kind of life. You bring it to life. So why did you go with that specific Akito doll? Is there a reason? The uh it has a great look. It's very lightweight, and it has and it also a lot of other keto dolls have a uh the the the pin, which is how every I think every everyone listening knows how a keto doll works. Uh the the pin which you skewer yourself with that speak uh um is right at a 90 degree angle from the foot, as opposed to most of them, which are slightly bent, and it gives you like a less um vertical uh lift on the doll. Okay, in the in the palm of the hand. This uh uh Rolando's goes straight up. And you know, it's very obvious. And you can give it a little a little bow as well, if you'd like. Um and it's uh it's very forgiving when it comes to customization because it is a slip man. So if you're if you wear dark clothing like I usually do, you can give it a little uh spray with uh with a spray paint or something like that to lighten it up, this little dusting. Uh, or you can uh you know you can customize it with other colors. I i it recently I gave it a little bit of a a glint with a semi-fluorescent paint, just a little hint of it, so it'll it'll illuminate more in lighting. Um that way it'll stand out from my my uh dark clothing I wear. Uh that was a complaint I had about it. But yeah, so the akilo doll is a great piece. Another piece I uh open up with, if you're talking about openers, is occasionally um a effect called tea, which was developed by Joseph Daniels, um, and which a you you uh do a tea reading and you it looks to a member of the audience, their initials appear in the teacup. Okay, and then uh but first you need a pe a little bit of ash in order to uh maintain your concoction. And the you burn a tea bag or or or fly papers, and uh and you and it goes into the air and you kitchen the teacup. It's a very beautiful moment. And then the uh then you and then what I did to enhance this was I added ashes to palm, so with tea leaves, the cup. So when they open their hands up, there's a tea in the center of their palm. And I'll mention if I uh and I talk about my grandmother teaching me about psychic phenomena, which she did actually. She was in the palm reading and tea leaves and tarot cards and things like that. And um and I mentioned that in my uh routine. And what's great about these two particular pieces, whether I open up with uh the the keto dial or the key effect is that it establishes everything the audience needs to know about me at the very beginning of the show. I was I can be funny, spooky, and uh and we're going to have a great time and no one's gonna get hurt, even regardless of what the topics we talk about. So that that's what these these two pieces are great to open with for my particular types of shows. And I think everyone's opener should be something that establishes your personality at the very beginning, the way they know what they're getting in the journey ahead for the next hour or so.
SPEAKER_01:So would the tea trick be your second choice? Because you've said a keto doll, and then you went into that as an open. Now, is that gonna be a selection?
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, we're gonna keep the tea trick in there as well. Uh so I'm gonna write this officially into your list. So we've we've got this tea trick and we've got this a keto doll. Now, based on what you've told us so far, it almost sounds like you're putting together a performance.
SPEAKER_03:That is correct. Yeah, it does it makes sense together. Now, I like to have things that are um sometimes one of my challenges I do for myself is like I like a piece a lot, but it doesn't fit my personality. All right. So I could I have two ways of doing it. I can either not do it because it doesn't fit at all, or I can find a not too convoluted explanation for why I'm using that. Okay. So for example, a piece I recently added to my repertoire of main stream main pieces, which was shown to me by Peter Samelson uh from New York. Uh, you know, he uh he's been doing Chrisville Pot's Odyssey, okay? Uh I always had an issue with Hunterth Monkey, one because it doesn't really fit what I do all night. Um at least it didn't uh interact you know initially. And also had too much setup lighting, people's glasses would see through it, for example. But he perfected this illusion with Odyssey. And I think that's one thing that people should know about that is is these it's the same optical illusion that is in Earth's monkey, elevated to a new level at which it is perfected. Okay, so Odyssey would be my next piece in it. And what's great about Odyssey is that it doesn't require the lighting setup. You just have to do it the right way. And I have to and now, so how do I justify for a Bench Wilson show? All right, because I did love this piece a lot. I talk about the power of glamour. Okay, you know, the not the glamour, the superficial sort of aspect we know today in regards to beauty magazines, but glamour in the in the time of fables and folklore, you know, the the field of energy and aura that encaspulates a fantasy being, say a uh vampire, a demon, uh Bitcoin bro, you know, this uh these sorts of uh narcissistic uh aspects of you know that we we would say that was influence, and sometimes people would think they were aliens, um, for example, is to manipulate people. And I would bring a volunteer on stage and say, When you're done with this, you will be more immune to the power and influence of glamour than when you started. And I would just wave my hand a little bit, snap my fingers, and say you're now influenced with the power of glamour. Everything you see in this magazine I have right here, it's a you can see it's a flip-through, it's a travel magazine. And I'll say this. You may have seen this in the back of airplane seats, and they give this away for free, or at least they didn't say anything when I walked off the plane with it. Um and I would uh I would just show them some articles from Milan and and such and such. And and I would say, uh, it said, uh we're gonna flip through. I said, everything you think you say is something you say, everything you think you see is something that I say you saw, even if you didn't see what you think you saw. Does that make sense? And they'll say, no. If you said, yeah, good. If you said yes, I'd be worried. And I flipped through the magazine that's the first image is of a woman who's experiencing the Opposite of what the words say. I just want you to focus on the top of the advertisements, the advertisements in here. The first thing you see is the opposite of what the words say, the woman is experiencing. And she's the she's looks, she looks frazzled, and it says something along the lines of, I am so delighted, you know. And the audience, of course, is seeing something completely different because she has been mesmerized by the power of glamour. You know, so that so that's a way of making that make sense for me, but also using real-world objects. Okay. Whenever possible, I try not to use anything that looks like it came from a magic shop. You know, the uh I I do not like using things that look like they're like you bought it off the shelf at a brick and mortar or online, you know, the painted uh, you know, boxes or things along those lines. So this was a great piece I really enjoyed doing.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think that's a great list so far. And what I think is really interesting as well is how you're taking something that is inherently not a bizarre trick, like Odyssey. Uh, I would say that's quite kind of a pseudo-hypnotic um mentalism piece, I guess. And you're making it play for your needs in your bizarre show.
SPEAKER_03:A lot of a lot of great uh bizarre magic or storytelling magic is repurposed mentalism. You know, instead of instead of your incredible psychic powers, you know, the the Sherlockian genius, or the I combined the five senses to create the illusion of the sixth sense, you know, uh that sort of pattern. Um it is you're getting aid from the realm of spirits or the or fairy tale places or things like that. I sometimes these pieces can be repurposed for other like for example, uh during St. Patrick's Day, and a lot of these will be repurposed for a show about Faye and Fairies and things like that for and uh St. Patrick's Day is huge in the United States for some reason, uh and probably alcoholism. And the um and the uh uh I will do a show called Fairy Tales to Tell in the Dark for St. Patrick's Day, in which the talks and it has that and uh um and a lot of these pieces will be just retooled slightly, in which instead of oaths or sagging ability or whatnot, it's it's fairy lore if they breathe into it, you know. Um so most of my ancestry is European. In fact, all my ancestry is European, obviously. Uh so uh the that kind of leans into probably what we're at three pieces now, right? Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So we're we're moving on to number four. So we have the Akita Doe, we have the Tea Trick Odyssey, and now number four.
SPEAKER_03:Um after the Odyssey, uh, there's you know here's another thing is I try to avoid pieces that a lot of other magicians do. And I think a lot of magicians try to do that, and I definitely want to do that, and I don't want to do it the same way they're doing it. Um I I recently incorporated um the prestige, which is the accordion uh plastic pieces, and which is a great effect. Um, and I hated doing that to some degree because so many magicians are doing it. But I also realized that for when I do shows for private events, they're seeing me do it for the first time. Okay um they're they've never seen it before. I'm thinking I'm overthinking it because magicians do it. But once again, I have to I I had to make that make sense for my type of show. So when I do the so if you're anyone is familiar with the uh the prestige, it's a it's a it's uh uh cards that are numbered usually one through five. I have the version that has the dry erase marker ability on the back of it. Okay. Um the one criticism I would have prestige, the the the cards are great, the effect is great. The flimsy Fordian plastic it comes from is not great. So I actually remade that with hard shell plastic of uh covers I found on Amazon and then and keep done together and made it look as nice as I could. Uh so they can tramp better and not because if you've my opinion of that is that I didn't even use it because I knew even in six shows it'd be falling apart. Okay, so the uh um so anyway, uh how I repurposed that for one of my shows is that I talk about the concept in alchemy called equivocal exchange. All right, and I'll say to the audience, uh have you ever heard the concept of alchemy for your alchemy? By the way, a little thing you can Google later, Sir Isaac Newton. Practice to alchemy. A lot of people don't know that. All right. Have you ever heard of a concept of alchemy? Uh sometimes sometimes in when I have words performed for younger audiences and the and nerdier communities, several people raise their hands, I'll just point at them as a word because they've heard about it from anime. So all right. Um, so but the it's so that's a great moment of nerd, you know. But I I relate with them completely. So anyway, um uh but the equivalent has changed. The idea is this if you want to practice dark or deep magic, you must give to the universe. If you give to the universe, you can take something back. If you take from the universe, you must give something back. And the more you give to the universe, the more you can take. Alchemist was used as a concept in order to acquire wealth and power, a magical ability. All right, if you volunteer for this, you I will gain magical ability, wealth and power, and you, well, your family anyway, can say that you participated. All right. So I would be a volunteer on stage and uh go through the motions, and of course, I'm using the version, it's called Hug Till. And I didn't I didn't want to do this. I I thought it I love this routine. I didn't want to do this because Rob Zabrecki does it. And I I don't want people I I love Rob Zabrecki, I've met him several times, I've talked to him on the phone before, and I would I would not ever want to offend him by doing anything that he does. But then I found out he didn't come up with the hug killer concept, and I was okay doing it now. So so and I do my routine is completely different from what he does, other than it's saying hug killer in the back, you know. So that's all the other thing as well. I I try not to do any magic my friends perform publicly. For example, I wouldn't do this at a a venue like the Chicago Magic Lounge or the sh the Magic Castle because I know my friends have performed routines like that there. So um that would be number four, I suppose.
SPEAKER_01:So have you have you played about with putting other concepts in there other than hug and kill?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, I I've I've thought about that. Now, this is this is a new addition to my my record. I've only had it for a couple of months, and I I have been flying around with a few ideas of other than hug and kill. Um, I I I definitely do Rick, I would recommend this to everyone. I definitely pretend to be super awkward with a hug, and I uh just kind of do a shoulder pat, you know, like the cover the hug because it is awkward. And you had in today in today's modern world, you do have to be very cognizant of boundaries and the kind of awkwardness. Um some people just want to go in for the full hug, and that that's fine. Uh, but it whenever possible, I just go with a sideways sort of shoulder pat, you know, and that's it that's enough. And I think you should ever everyone should do something similar, not go in for the full hug. It's just it's just weird, you know, uh, and that sort of thing. Um uh but I I have thought about at least switching. I think the kill effect is great, the kill word, but I've been thinking about switching hug with something else like uh like a gift, like maybe a warmer ducky giveaway, you know, or something along those lines. Just something that's humorous and fun. Um uh so and I can switch the words around. So that's an idea I've been thinking about, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing. Well, let's go on to number five then. So what's in your fifth spot?
SPEAKER_03:The fifth spot, I I would like to uh there's a lot of volunteering. I don't want to use too many volunteers, so you gotta do something uh um, you know, that self-works, you know. The keto doll is one that works by itself, and that's great. Uh so I'll probably switch to another self-working piece. And what I mean by self-working specifically, I'm talking about something that does not need a volunteer to come on. Okay, it can be sleight of hand, but it definitely needs uh doesn't need a volunteer. At this point, I would wish I would switch to an effect uh called the it's normally called the Witches of Glass and Very. Witches of Glass and Fairy is an effect that was developed by uh brother Shadow, a Bizarre Magician of the past, and and and taken to another notch with the uh with some improvements on it uh by Paul Prater, who you have met at the uh recently at the East Coast Spears sessions. Um and uh Witches of Glassbury is a color-changing moppy. Exactly if you're familiar with that. Okay. So it's a it's the uh there's tapered tarot cards in this case, in which you have uh at the beginning, it appears you have two uh Wheel of Fortune cards and a death card. And you tell us now. I changed the wording around to uh where I'm at. You know, in the United States, I'll be uh in uh New Orleans is where the place takes place, all right, where the uh the story takes place. And if I was in the UK, I would probably still I would just do Glass and Berry again because it's that makes sense, you know. Um and if I performed in Italy, it would be uh, you know, Florence or something along those slides, someplace where that would make sense for that to happen. Um and it tells a story of a woman who lived on the outskirts of town. All right. She she grew it was just a very long time ago, for example, you know, first of all, and she lived on the outskirts of town. She was 26 years old. He was unmarried. She helped people uh for and asked for nothing in return. She grew herbs and plants for medicinal value. Obviously, she was a witch. At least that's what the townspeople thought, you know. Uh the mayor of the town didn't believe in such nonsense. He was a learned man, after all. He had gone to university. I know it's hard to believe today, a learned politician, um, but he would go to the outskirts of town and um uh uh visit this woman and and and plunk this nonsense about witchcraft and wit and uh and magics. And it's obviously she knew who he was. Um heel because he remembered that her mother was very wise, and perhaps some of that wisdom had transferred on to her. And he thought, you know, I've been thinking, Adam, of of uh buying some land on the outskirts of town, but around here it's it's very marshy. You know, and I'm not sure this was a good investment or not. Um and and she said, I think I can help. She goes into her bureau and she pulls out three tarot cards, and she chose it to the mayor, a wheel of fortune card, another wheel of fortune card, and a death card. She said, Don't be scared of the death card. It simply means if you choose this, do not buy the land. He absentmindedly starts shuffling up cards. It says, You have two choices, Mr. Mayor. Two choices and two choices only. If you get a wheel of fortune card, buy the land. If you get the death card, do not. The problem was the mayor was a he was a gambling man. He knew how to follow cards. And he was positive. He only needed to follow the death card. He needed to know where that was so he could avoid it. So he followed that death card, and he was also pretty sure he saw a T stain out the back. He started shuffling it up, and he said, Ah, the death card's in the bottom, so he chooses the top, and it's like it's a death card. So don't worry, you get another chance. So he starts shuffling up again, and he chooses the middle because he was positive the death card returned to the top. But it was the death card again. Now he's upset. He was he knew a hundred percent that he had followed that card, and there was a marking on it. There's no way he was wrong. She starts shuffling it up again absent-mindedly, not because he ran through his turns, but he reached out and grabs the bottom card anyway, and it's still the death card. He runs back in town and tells everyone she was a witch, and and I hold up those three cards the whole time. They were just three cards. And oh, you find it's death. It must be the work of the devil. You know, and like you can pish those cards out, they can examine it, and they're not gonna find anything. So yep. So that's uh that's another great piece. It also adds a little trauma intention. I usually play some very slow, like uh dramatic violin music in the background to sort of add tension to the story, you know. There's a little levity in there, of course. And if I if I do the New Orleans story, I add an accent to the bear when I do his voice.
SPEAKER_01:So well, I think that's a really good one. I've not heard of that uh trick before or that that particular story or handling. Uh, I think it's great. Is this something that you would do in a walking situation as well? Because this feels like a really lovely story piece for walk-around.
SPEAKER_03:Right. I I have I in fact I have done it for walk around, and I did write a I actually I don't know if you're familiar with my word called the uh uh strolling bazaar that is actually mentioned in it. Um yeah, the uh I add more levity to it when I'm doing walk-around, and uh it is it uh it becomes sort of a a feminist message also, um, because you're talking about the uh the uh you know discrimination women have always experienced. Obviously, we fix all those problems and nothing like that's ever happened again. Just kidding. Uh anyway. Yeah, obviously that's not true. Um, but yes, it is a it's a it's it has a very powerful message, and if you uh you can make it more dramatic or you make it more of a humorous tale of uh stupid politicians uh and and uh uh and backwards uh thinking um for walk around and strolling for sure, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think it sounds like another great choice. Uh and leads us into number six, Vince. So let's go for number six. What's in your sixth spot?
SPEAKER_03:Well, the sixth spot is uh and for this, I was it's it was clearly turning into a very bizarre show. Uh this is this is probably my bizarre magic show, as a matter of fact. But I do have ones at which these are repurposes strictly for mentalism or more or mainstream magic and just changing the words around a little bit. Uh, but the next one would definitely be a book test that ends with uh um a Pegasus page. Once again, Pegasus page definitely way overdone at magic conferences. Like you go to a magic conference, you're gonna see an ensemble show where five people have Pegasus pages now. Um, but it is but it for your audience the of lay people, you know, the um you're they're seeing it for the very first time. You know, they are still they've never seen anything like that before. So I'll have a a leather pouch on stage and I pull a book from it, in this case, Grim Fairy Tales. If I'm doing this as mentalism, as opposed to a storytelling element, I might use a uh a different type of book. And I usually go with Josh Zandman's books because they have multiple pieces built into it. My advice for everyone don't do too much in one set. Use different pieces in different shows. Because if you do too much from Josh Zandman's book, you definitely uh you diminish the power of those effects because it becomes obvious it's a trick built into the book. Okay, so that's the first piece of advice for using those books. Um so because he has tossed-out book tests, he has a flash forward effect, he has the Pegasus page, he has you know uh and you know, multiple other pieces built into some of these books, and the Grim Fairy Tale ones is a great example of that. I obviously you can see what the draw to Grim Fairy Tales is for me. I want to do more mentalism and with a little bit of humor that might say uh obviously, when you choose a book for any sort of uh piece that you're doing in a magic show, you want to avoid something political, something that might entice or have a negative reaction uh with your audience. So you choose something uh that has no religious or political connotations. Um so I chose a science fiction book, for example, uh 1984. And usually get laughter from the audience because you know that's the opposite of not a political book. Um and and then I might say, obviously, this has nothing to what should be happening in the world today, you know. Uh in this, and uh and then that's that's irrelevant because the rest of the thing has nothing to do with the book because you're doing uh the uh I use the classic sort of aspect of of uh uh picking up on you can go in two ways of it. If I'm doing a more bizarre magic show and I'm picking up on the R or feelings or empathy of the audience, you know, if there's more mentalism, then I'm doing the trope of clear facial readings. Now there's videos of me online, you can look up if you want to. I actually can do facial readings for real to some degree. It's I don't do it very often because there is a percentage of failure, and no magician likes to fail at a magic piece or mentalism piece on stage. All right, but it is it is a uh it, you know, but it is something that is in my repertoire. Why do that with Zan Man's book can let you cheat? Okay, even the flash forward effect. So I I tell them um some advice for people ever doing it, do not put emphasis on the book. Don't let them examine it, they'll offer it to them, even though they claim it's examinable. When you do that, it's like a splinter in the brain. You're telling them the book could be hinky, you know, something that could be possibly up here about the book, and they'll want to look at it again or over-examine it. Just don't suggest that. It's unnecessary pattern. All right. If I even mention the book, it's because the book is important to the story, or I want to get some levity in there, like the 1984 reference. Uh, but Grim Fairy Tales makes sense because it has witchcraft and and you know, uh fairy tale creatures and and metaphors and parables inside of it that makes sense with the for the concept I'm trying to convey. It also is a book that goes into my fairy tales that tell in the dark show for obvious reasons. Okay, so I just do at the slip it back, the word, and I can say that I I can pick up on their uh reactions. The word it's either their aura is lighting up or dimming, or when I'm picking up micro expressions, or I want to go to a more mentalism effect. And I do try to pick up on stuff because a lot of times if they're their partner was with them, they'll look at their face because they're trying to pick up on what they're they're reacting to as well. So if I see them uh squint or curl their lips or something like that, I'll mention, ah, you curled your lips briefly. It's a first letter is G, right? You know, uh, for example, and I will go by two fingers or two letters, and I'm gonna try to figure out how many letters are in that word. Two, three, four, not four letters. You raise the eyebrows a slightly, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And then I'll tell them what I'm doing and how it works. I said, first reason the reason we put the first word top of the piece is because um for verification purposes. Makes sense, and that's it. That's all I say. They'll always agree to make sense for whatever reason, you know, for verification purposes, and then we move on. And then I'll say at the end, I said the second reason I choose the first word top of the page is because I memorized 95% of the words on that side of the book. And they laugh because they they think like all that's cheating almost. But the then I say, so think about it, I used a constant book out. Let them choose any word. But my first book was Alice in Wonderland that I memorized or or or used, and the problem was that they would with these fantasy words or foreign words I didn't know, and I it would take forever. With this, I could usually figure out two letters. Now the they're now they're totally sold that what I'm doing is real. So that's my advice for anyone who does this effect, you know. Um and then And uh and then I'll that'll transition to a Pegasus page. I play some music in the background and I'll say uh if I'm doing a full Lizara magic show, I'll say spooky music's play in the background, like a sort of uh uh mystical sounding music. And I'll say, Have you ever walked in the woods at night? Your bare feet in the grass, have you ever felt a full moon empower you? All right, as energy coming from the earth and you can do and you feel energized if you as if you can do impossible things. You know, it's always a woman who'll respond to this, you know. Uh you know, and they'll come up on stage and say, the uh I said you may have been born, you know, uh different. It's possible that which blood exists in your ancestry. Um I I I I do a Pegasus page and the basically the page disappears, it appears inside the leather folder that was on stage the entire time with the flap open and uh and the page matches up and the audience is amazed. This I think this part is necessary to have a real justification uh for why that page disappears. One, it's just is in general it should be there for a Pegasus page, and two, if I'm trade if I'm using two pieces from the same book, it definitely needs to have a justification. Otherwise, they know the book is a trick. You don't want them to think that book is a trick. I'm very big on stage decor as well. You know, the uh I usually bring uh a couple of uh velvet tablecloths with castles on them in order to decorate the existing tables in the venue or or the the the uh private residence or say some performing and also have foldable tables. I even have this uh a similar backdrop, which is a better condition than this one. And I like to have that so I can do something like this. You know, like they think the book is fake. They think the book piece is uh fake, but it isn't. As you can see. No, I definitely have uh real books loaded up on there. I do that's a another piece I will add to my show, usually uh when I want to do the book test, NS Mallet. So you can consider that a separate effect, even though it leads into the book test.
SPEAKER_01:That's great. Yeah, if you're only listening to this audibly, uh you can watch this on YouTube. Um and basically Vince has behind him a uh a backdrop which has seen better days. Um, and it is a bookshelf, uh, and he has just managed to uh produce a book from said fake bookshelf. Um so yeah, that's brilliant. It's such a great idea. I bet that moment when you pull it out of the wall is really funny as well.
SPEAKER_03:It's just it's just a brilliant illusion. I came up with that um during the uh the Zoom era. Uh, you know, during the pandemic, uh I was doing it for Jeff McBride's mystery school. And it I just came over with that on the fly. Someone asked, is that bookcase that is this is when it was new. They just said, isn't that bookcase a uh curtain or a zoom effect? And I said, Oh, it's a real bookcase. I and I just had to grab the random book off my desk. It just came back and did that, and it worked. And I was another was just improvise right there. And I then later, of course, I realized it can be done on stage. So now I just keep it on my jacket under my shoulder and I pull it out and reveal it from it, uh, hiding it behind my forearm and fingers there.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, that's great. Well, I think that's another great choice in at number six, and leads us to the tail end of your eight with number seven. So what's in your seventh spot?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I at this point I could probably do my uh tossed out tarot deck. Okay. The toss out deck is always a a wonderful, wonderful uh geese for any magic show or mentalism piece. And it goes for both. I don't do a lot of I know how to do card magic to some degree. Um every magician should know that, even if you're not specializing in it. Um and uh and I used a I do a uh a toss-out tarot deck because it makes more sense for me. You know. And this is a very big piece, it doesn't need a lot of uh uh storytelling aspects. First of all, I used, I think this one was developed by Hardshark years ago, if you're familiar with it. It's an aged uh tarot deck, and it's written, it has the force words written uh in German and English. Okay, so if you depending on your orientation, you'll get rid of the other. Um, and the the orientation of where you put the rubber band on. Okay, I use a a bungee cord around it because rubber bands rot and break and that sort of thing, and I don't want to carry around agate rubber bands all over all the time. So I just put a bungee cord, which will last for years on it. And I put in the wooden box, and I said I made some predictions earlier, and I would like to try uh you know demonstrate this with you. This is a very quick piece, this is meant to be fast because it's in the very little storytelling. The story is in the cards, okay? They aren't arrow cards, okay. Um, and I I fan them out in front of the front row, which is a ballsy move, because if you're if you're a magician, you will definitely see how this is done. All right. I don't fan about a lot, just enough so you get the edges of the cards, okay? Um and but but if you were if you were looking for it, if you knew how it worked in advance, you would definitely see what how it worked, because it's multiples of same cards, you know. Uh I I rubber band it up again. And I said, I just want you to pass this out to maybe five people. Now, this is an old deck and they're in an order. And if they and every once in a while they gets it rarely happens, but sometimes you'll I don't want anyone to get the same card, even though it's 78 cards, but it can't happen unless we bend in the same places and such. So the first person look at it, you're in the top, second person, about a third of the way down, and so on and so forth. Okay, and I'll walk you through it. And that's so you only get one chance. If you miss your opportunity, just pay us off to someone else. Don't feel bad. It happens. All right. Boom, boom, boom, five times. I call out the predictions and that was written inside the wooden box I have, and it's done. You know. Um, you know, so that's a it's a very nice piece, and I can I can it's another piece I could do to extend it. If I don't decide not to do that, I do who dot it, which is a clue routine. Um sometimes I'll I'll flip that with the um the uh test and then it reads one into the other, which I can say, which I can know how I did that. Plus, it uses the idea that you can read microexpressions and things like that. And I usually play like jazzy uh film noir sort of music, background music, as I decided to play the part of the detective and find out what like the alertest person would be. All right. So if you it's it used for uh it's uh uses clue cards or uh clue no cards, depending on where you're coming from. Um and uh it is a it's a undone right, it's a brilliant piece and can add a lot of levity and fun. I suggest if you do it, have some degree of improvisational skills, it makes it way better. Every every magician should take improv classes, in my opinion. So that is uh those are those two pieces are interchangeable. I would do either one of those right before my last piece.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Okay. Well, what I think is really interesting about tossed out tarot as well is it can essentially be a QA, a very short QA, because you can reveal things about people that there is no way that you could know. Um, because of course, using the tossed out tarot method, you can effectively say anything you want and the audience will confirm that you are correct.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, you're absolutely correct. You're a master of pull reading. Uh because the uh you're absolutely correct, because the using Barnum phrases and cool readings, and if you don't know what those are, you should, because they are they really add to any sort of uh piece, because uh you know, rarely you're good rarely are you going to get the only times I've ever seen that go wrong is when you have like the most vile narcissistic uh jerk, for lack of a better there's better words I can use, but you get the idea of what keep this podcast clean. Uh narcissistic jerk who's so self-aware of the fact that you're a total piece of you know what. Um the uh um the that's the only time, and then of course you're you're still you're still gonna win because you just added this off person. So uh, you know, it's not a big deal. But yeah, for the most part, you're really gonna uh meet someone who doesn't want to think they're a good person. And the Barnum phrases and lines you use are gonna work flawlessly on that. You know, there's things along the lines of you know, uh you've been taken advantage of before because of your time personality. You've uh you've had people betray you and take, you know, and that sort of thing. Um you definitely are in a person with help someone in need, things along those lines. Then you can go to other places and relationships and parents and and things along those lines. Those are just the the baseline things you can do with that. Um you can find out a lot of about a person. Their behavior on stage even reveals information about them. They're an introvert or an extrovert. Those things that come across when you bring some up on stage, for example. And you use that to your advance as well. The clue routine brings all that out as well. It's just like that's why they're intimate or interchangeable. Because you're re you're trying to figure out what kind of killers would be by finding out what kind of person they are, you know. Uh a uh a joke I I usually added to it to add some levity to it is um I said, oh, uh Jamie here has a browser history, it needs to be deleted. Uh he reads those kinds of books, you know, and uh for example. Um, and probably most people read those kind of books and they don't like to be, but it's a funny piece that's out. And then if they deny it, you're like, of course you're denying it, you know, for example. So yeah. Yeah, it's a good suggestion, Jamie.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think it's a great choice at number seven, and very sadly leads us to number eight, which is your final choice. So what would you put in your last position, Vince?
SPEAKER_03:That's easy. My my uh spin on the PK touch routine. All right. Usually I bring up a I try to get a couple, like a romantic couple. Every great once in a while I'm performing for uh some place where the it's no couple's night. It's a corporate gigs and stuff like that, are usually like that. You're you're so I'll bring up a two good friends or coworkers or something like that. All right. Um and you I start with a standard, what is most people refer to as Banach style PK touch routine, you know. And it's and I don't want to be just very clear, uh, for advice for matricians, keep it simple. Don't overdo it. As soon as you you over-verify things, you know, and they know it's a trick now. You keep it simple, it's a miracle. The the the worst PK touch routines I've seen uh in the United States anyway, is uh is where they it's the it's too much. You're sitting down, you're standing up, it's a feather, it's a nose, it's a you know, it's like it's a back and forth over and over again. Or minutes. You know, it's like it's like those 12, 15-minute egg-bag routines you see sometimes. Oh my god, you know, it's like, come on. Now we know it's the bag, you know. It's funny, it's fun, everyone's laughing, but we know it's the bag now. All right, so the um touch routines should be simple. So, what I usually do is bring the couple up on stage, um, back and forth with the shoulders, the standard waving your hand sort of thing, and that creating a connection between the two of them. I tell the thing of romantic interludes, wonderful moments spent together, vacations and trips and things like that. And uh of course it ends with what you've many of you seen before, which is um, you know, did you feel anything? Yes, it's because I actually touched you. Everyone saw me touch this person, right? And did you feel anything? And they're just like, Yes. Is it two touches? Yes. Everyone together know what's did I ever touch this person? No, the audience says, okay. Now that's amazing in itself, and it's that's it. I'm done with that. One back and forth, that's it. No more. This peep this part of the show is done. I said, but wait, there's more. All right, I have a question for you. It's very important. Tell me of the two of you, who's the most graceful? You know, I put my arm up gracefully like that. Who's the most graceful of the two of you? Right? There's only one answer, and you know who both should know who it is. And usually you can say you're you're a standard heterosexual couple or whatnot, you know, they'll they'll still automatically pick the woman amongst the two of them. Uh, you know, so um, and they'll be honest, I said, take the center of the stage, you know you want it. And then I'll go into what's based on D'Angelo PK Touches. Um so it's a main uh Raphael D'Angelo's PK Touches are the most amazing PK touch routines I've ever seen. Okay, Tammy, you also have great PK touch. I love watching a demonstration at ECSS. I definitely want to give you a shout out as well. All right. Uh, but you what's what about D'Angelo? You only need one volunteer. If I don't have couples and I and if I I need to speed it up because maybe it went over or they're telling me to cut back on time or something like that, I can just cut to one person and call it a day. All right. Um the what most magicians don't do this because it's too ballsy for them. When they learn how to do it, they they watch the videos that they can buy online. It's they're usually it's like it's been out for a while now, so it's usually very inexpensive to buy. The Angelo touches. Okay. But they'll watch those videos and say, I can't do that. There's no way this will work. I mean, obviously it works because people do it, but they'll look at those videos and say it's impossible. They'll try it at home and try it with their partner or whatnot, whatnot, with their friends, and they'll still they'll give it that. I've actually seen him get bad reviews on on uh the platforms and the the sites that this the downloads available on because they it's too bally for a lot of musicians to perform, which is great for us because we do it. All right. So uh um, but it is the so I when I end with that piece, I I add my own flair to it. You know, I uh I make a lot of emphasis to be as far away from the person, I make sure the touches are extremely light. I also another word I would give to anyone taking on PK touches in the modern world is I always very quickly and simply ask for consent at the beginning. I say the line, you're gonna be in a moment you're gonna feel a touch, a very light touch, and that's right. Is that okay? That's it. That's all I say. I don't put an afternoon song and say, Is that okay? I'll go back and forth, is that okay? I get consent from both of them, and it's very quick moment. Is that okay? Good. And we're done. You always 100% of the time say yes because we already gave up on stage for this. All right. Um so it's never an issue. Is that okay? Good. Now everyone's gonna be. Okay. But then you just do the PK touch routines that you need to do as uh as long as you stay in the parameters that you established already. You know, so uh then I do the Angelo PK touch routine, and that is the most powerful closure I've ever done. Someone, I'm not gonna say names, and I'm sure they're gonna listen to this podcast later once I now when I when you promote it, then the uh once someone once asked me to open their show with the that routine. All right, and I asked if he was sure he wanted me to do that. And he said, I'm a hundred percent sure, and I tried to talk him out of it, and he insisted on me opening with it. And it wasn't I want to put emphasis on this, this is not me bragging or being arrogant. All right, it is the fact that this is a closer and a powerful one. If you do it right, anyone who does it is gonna have a very powerful closure for their show. But he actually open his show for it with it, all right? And his show could not recover from the energy that was established because of that PK Touch routine, because they were completely different styles of performance for one thing, going into a very funny uh humor show with a lot of uh uh you know concepts that you're I'm sure you're familiar with, you know, that that will not have should not have followed that kind of closing material. All right. It's great. You know, the his the his the energy I established could not be maintained the rest of the show, is what I was uh trying to say. Yeah. But that's how it would have ended the show. You know, it would be the uh on the desert island performance, which I'm performing for coconuts painted like people. That is the show I would do, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, when I was over at ECSS, we spoke about PK Touches. I think we both had very much the same view uh on it. I still think it's the uh best trick. Um, people have heard my Desert Island list now, they know that that was my number one. Uh, if I was to perform one trick for the rest of my life, it would be PK Touches. Uh, and I think there are very few tricks in our industry that you know require no props. Uh, and if you are gonna use a prop, the one prop that you do use is an invisible prop. It's it's not a thing that people are aware of. And it feels it doesn't feel like mind reading, it doesn't feel like a trick, it feels like something else. I think there are very few tricks in our industry that feel like this.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, there's gonna be moments in which you don't want to perform magic. Someone knows you're a magician and they're gonna ask you to perform magic, and you can say the excuse. I don't, I'm sorry I didn't bring anything with me. I think that's the worst excuse. You know, uh, if you don't want to perform magic, say just say, be honest with them and say, not right now. I'm I'm enjoying my dinner or whatever, you know. To be honest with them, okay? Because every single magician should have in their repertoire magic they can do with nothing. If PK Touches is one of those pieces, you know. If you you know, you you can ring a restaurant into silent awe and a and then applause with that PK touch routine. All right. And it's the only thing you have to do, and you think you're a miracle worker. You know, it requires no props, no gimmicks, and things like that. I don't like the electronic PK touch gadgets. That's too much. You're removing stuff and adding stuff, and uh it's it is it is it's an unnecessary feat. How wonderful the response you've got, it's a little training from someone who's experienced with PK touches and make your make you not need to carry that with you with that gadget or gizmo. Um PK touches are super powerful, they don't require anything. And I think there's there's lots of other things you can do, but I think there you should definitely have in your arsenal multiple pieces that require no props or anything like that. So you're never in a situation uh in which you could you would have to say, I didn't bring anything with me. And it's no magician should say that. They should always have the ability to do magic no matter what. Even if you didn't bring, you should be able to do magic at a nudist colony.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, now we know what kind of island we're going to. So we've got uh a wonderful eight tricks there. We started with a keto ball, uh Doll, we've got the tea trick, we've got Odyssey, the Prestige, Witches of Glastonbury, Zanman Book Test, Tossed Altar, and PK Touches. Now, Vince, we gave you eight tricks, but you only get one each of your final things. Okay, so you are going to dig a big sandy hole on your island, and you're gonna throw something inside from our industry. Uh, we're gonna cover it over, never to be seen again. So, what would you like to banish from our industry?
SPEAKER_03:I would banish published scripts and pattern into the hole and Forcing magicians to come up with their own verbiage so that best fits their personality. So from this point on, any any all the knowledge of things written by other magicians in regards to the things to say, the pattern that comes with the directions, gone. And it would force people to be creative and imaginative. You know, uh, unfortunately, I would have to throw in Chat GBT in after that. Um, you know, or or the chat box, the chat box with it. Because I I think that's what unfortunately a lot of magicians would probably go there next. Well, how do I make this? What kind of words can I do with this, you know, in my in the in the chat software. But you know, that's another story or another show. Uh the uh but yes, I think the all the um clatter written by other magicians that have been published and forcing you to come up with your own creative, imaginative verbiage, because sincerity comes from your words after the words from other people. Sincerity connects with people more. And of course, me and you have both put out stuff. We've all we've both published effects and pieces and scripts and things like that, and people definitely perform those pieces as we wrote them. You know, and that's fine because that's why we put them out there in the first place. But I would like to see more magicians use our own verbiage. You know, the it's like learn the piece first. Like when I get a new proper effect, I learn how it's done, and then I'll put my own words over it anyway.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, I agree. And uh even when I was at ECSS, uh shout out to Zeke Powers, who uh came over to me with one of my own tricks that he had uh redesigned and repurposed in his own way, and I I think that's great. Uh and something that kind of you said earlier on, um, which I think about a lot, is and I I think I mentioned it before, and it's no slight on anyone at all, but when you go to the magic circle in London, there are posters all over the walls of magicians from years past, you know, um, and they're all doing these incredible things, you know. There's the electrocution chair, uh, there's levitations, there's bringing back the dead, there's all of these incredible things that are happening. And then when you go there on a club night, everyone's sat in the middle of the room with the deck of cards. And that's that's no slight on anybody, but I think it's really sad how there's no wonder in our industry anymore. And I kind of think that that goes into what you're saying there about the published scripts. I think we're all just doing the same things. No one is brave enough to go out there and do the crazy thing, the wild thing, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah, I lectured and performed at the Magic Circle a few years ago, right? And I was I got there if they opened at three o'clock. I wasn't doing my uh pieces until seven o'clock. I got there super, I think it was 7 p.m., something like that, anyway. It was hours later. They were shocked how early I got there. I was like, well, this is the magic circle. Um I don't want to be here again. So I want to see I want a tour of everything. I want to see the library. I spent an hour and a half in the library by itself. And he said they asked me, did I want to see a um uh the auditions that were happening that night, because this was Tuesday and they were doing auditions that night. I said, oh, a hundred percent. And um and I think I have a I'm I'm more known in Europe than I am in the United States to some degree, because of bizarre magic is more better represented in Europe. And I don't and I I don't know if they were intimidated by me because they can ask my name. I don't think so. I think it was more they knew that I was lecturing that night, and they looked at anyone with that kind of authority as someone they should be nervous about, I guess. And I volunteered for a couple of pieces, and I was thinking about my lecture later that evening. And my lecture that evening, I say these words. I said, uh, being a better magician means being unique, you know, those were words for sincerity that connects an audience better. And I used the example. How many times have you heard these words, Jamie? When I was a kid, I had six cards. And I'm sorry, a metamagician. When I was a kid, a metagician, he had six cards. He said, one, two, three, four, five. How many times have you heard that? Dozens of times, right? I'm sitting there watching these auditions. I'm thinking about my lecture, and I'm doing I'm taking some notes, not with what's going on stage, just reminding myself of what to cover at the Magic Circle lecture. And a kid comes up there and he says, When I was a kid, I saw a magician and he had six cards, and I scratched that right out of my notes, and I used a different reference because I felt bad for that kid. But uh, I think that enough time is passed that I don't have to worry about that. Uh, but the uh but yes, the it is the uh it's when you're lecturing performing offences, you that's something you have to be more weary of, less so uh when it comes to um live events. But I will say this the booking agents know those words. Now they don't know that if it was uh Bill Abbott or or Scott Alexander or you know uh Jamie Dawes or anyone who wrote the pattern they're performing, they'll know who those are. But they know they've heard them those words before. And the booking agents were always looking for uh there's places that always just want a magician. It is like uh every year a magician does great at our event, so we want a magician, but every year they're looking for someone new with different matter, different verbiage, different uh ways of presenting themselves. They might want magic, they might want mentalism, and they don't want to hear the same thing again. You know, think about that. You know, if if you're doing original material, you're doing material despite the magic underneath of it that no one's heard before, and therefore they've never seen before. I've seen I've performed Out of This World in the ensemble shows in which two other magicians performed out of this world, and we all did it differently enough that no one put together they were the same effect.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, well, published scripts forcing originality are banished onto your island. So everyone has to be more original. That is uh everyone out there. Now that leads us to your book. So I know that you've referenced uh Eugene a couple of times, so I may think that maybe in your book position Eugene's in there, but let's find out what is in your book position.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, uh anything by uh Tony Andruzi as well. Okay, so that is a um that is difficult. He's he died in 1991. A lot of his materials out there, and I encourage you to watch if you look up Tony Andrewzi, watch the videos of him performing. He performed for the Seeger Cabaret uh on television back in the 90s or early 90s because he passed away in 91. And I encourage you to watch his energy. If you've ever seen a horror movie host on a late-night TV program in the United States, uh they have this campy energy. You know, they're they're they're a vampire or a ghoul or Dr. Frankenstein or or uh you know, famous, of course, the most famous one is obviously Elvira, you know. Um and he had that vibe to him. And a lot of people getting into bizarre magic, they make the mistake of reading that material without understanding the energy behind it. You know, they think it's dry and occult and you know, 70s satanic or something like that. Um but it but it but it could also be fun and energetic and full of storytelling. It doesn't have to deal with spirits and demons, it can be fairy tale creatures or just a concept of magic. There's nothing wrong with making people believe in magic. And I think Tony for me did that. He was he was also a comedy magician before he went into full-on Czar Magic, and he was apparently one of the best of his era, the 70s, 80s, and early 90s.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, well, we have Devil's Advocate. He has just popped up because for the first time ever, you've said the name of an author without a specific book. So if I made you take only one Tony Andruzzi book, which one would you take? Ah, even his diary.
SPEAKER_03:Because it it incasfully his character to some green more than other materials. It is a very thin pamphlet of a book, my idea. Um as many of the publications, the self-publications of that era were. Today we can put out at almost no expense, you know, books that are hundreds of pages thick and and have them self-printed. But back then, self-printing meant going on to a writer and then having it uh Xeroxed or copied at the at a uh an office supply store. But it I think it the the character that Andruzzi was comes across in Edema's diary possibly more than the other materials he did. Another book that you could say he's featured in as an alternative would be vocational, you know, which is an enormous book. It is uh but it it it's not definitively a Tony Andrew book because it also has other authors, including Max Maven and Eugene Berger, and some of the other traits of magic and mentalism from that time period. It was originally a series of magazines or or newsletters that came out as pamphlet form, and then uh ghost, and now it is a you can get these in two volumes. Uh volumes one and two come in one gigantic thick book. Actually, it's right behind his curtain if I tore it down. Uh and uh volume three is is about a third that size, and it has to complete complete a vocational. The three is hard to find, but you can always get one and two someplace.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so Demon's Diary is going with you, and that leads us to the last thing, Vince. So you're allowed to take one non-magic item that you use for magic. So what would you take?
SPEAKER_03:Chinese fortune coins. Alright, so I actually have it in my podcast. Always. Always, always, always a lot. All right. This is a Chinese fortune coin. Okay. For those who can't see it, just Google it online. It's a Chinese fortune coin. Standard, uh, one inch in the imperial sizing method. All right. It is it's a a pop, it's a uh RAS coin, uh circular with a square hole in the middle. Okay. Um, it is a uh you've seen these in gratitudely large stake sizes for magic tricks over the years, but this is usually what you get at Chinese New Year. You can buy this by the hundreds at very low cost, okay? Um, and you you the the during Chinese New Year, these were thrown into the audience and given away in pouches and things like that. Okay. Um I always have these with me because they're very inexpensive. They're relatively easy to bend. Okay. And I do a coin switch for people. This is my go-to sort of wander run, but here's a quick magic piece for you. And I'll ask you to put her hand out like this. I put the and I'll say, I want you to put her, uh first I'll say once you examine this, and I'll give it back to me. Now that uh put it back, uh put it in your hand like this. And of course, um, let's see, hold on for a second. I'll do this properly for you that one. Okay, so um I'll put it back in your hand, I'll say I'll put this in your hand, I'll put it back in your hand like that. And when I put this back in your hand, you'll put make a fist around it, and uh, and there's the corner right there, and I'll put it in their hand like that. They make a fist around it like that. Okay. And I'll say, uh if there's several directions to go to. This is also my go-to if there's kids around. I rarely perform with kids, uh, but if what I do, uh this is my go-to make kids routine. Think of your favorite superhero, and turn your hand around, and a coin is bad. All right. These coins are obviously you know how that worked. So I'm not giving uh I'm not telling you anything that's uh you've never seen before. Um, but the but it's a great pick routine. It's very simple, very inexpensive. The for giving things a trickety giveaway. All right. The um I you know the uh it's very uh it adds up to start giving away uh even uh relatively inexpensive coins, and coins are kind of real coins that that we use for transactions are kind of going to away slowly but surely. Very few people use them. And these are you can buy this in bulk, uh, you know, uh 201-inch coins. I don't really recommend anything smaller, make sure it is at least that size. Um, you know, 200 of these you can get for 20 US dollars. Uh you know, and it would last, it'll last you weeks or months before you run out of them and have to recharge. And it's just so worth it to give that away to someone, let them keep it, and I'll say, Well, you ruined my coin. If as a kid, I'll say, um, it's the think of your favorite superhero, easy one. You know. Um, if if it's an adult and I want to go through there's you know all sorts of different verbiage you can say, you can say, um, you know, I want to channel all your energy into your hand. I want you to think of, you know, the uh you know, the someone who made you angry recently, uh, someone who upset you. I want you is we're gonna alleviate you of that stress and anxiety and transfer it into that coin, which is made out of brands and is a relatively okay uh material for channeling energy, you know, and then it's bad to the half, you know. So keep it now. I don't want that. It's cursed, you know. So yep. So that's the uh so that's yeah, it's a that's a good it's non-mat it's technically not a magic piece, but it's something you can use for magic, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing. Well, that's one that we've definitely not had before. We may never have again. Uh so I really, really like it. So one more time, your list was the uh uh Akito Doll, the Tea Trick, Odyssey, the Prestige, Witches of Glastonbury, the Zaman Book Test, uh, Tossed Out Tarot, PK Touches, your banishment was published scripts, your book was the Demon's Diary, and your item is Chinese Fortune coins. What a great, very bizarre list, Vince.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you, thank you. I I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01:So if people want to find out more about you, your books, um, and of course the Pose Magic Conference, where can they go to, Vince?
SPEAKER_03:For my for me, if they just want to find out about me, you can go to Vince Wilson Magic.com.
SPEAKER_02:All right.
SPEAKER_03:Or the uh or the books in the UK. Uh very soon, I understand. You can go to AlanKazam.com. Uh in the US, you can go to steamensmagic.com and serve a couple other different ones, but that's the one I know of off the top of my head. Um and they're uh if you want to read some of my new news material as it comes out, I go I suggest you go to my Substack, which is something I started a couple months ago. And I have over 50 articles on uh magic mentalism, performance, uh, and storytelling. Some of the visual materials that were published, stuff I put out before. Uh there it's a there's a minor subscription. There's a seven-day trial you can just try out, see if you like it, get to read everything up to date for free. Um, it's only$5 a month if you decide to subscribe to it, but there's lots and lots of free material out there. In fact, I'm probably giving away way too much free material. Honestly, I shouldn't be charging for it, all of it. Uh but the uh but I I do I do like the message of storytelling and how important that is incorporating it to it. So I put a lot of that out there for free for that reason. All right, so it's on you go to Sumbstack.com and you look up Vince Wilson Magi, and I'll come up right away. And do you do lectures, Vince? Oh yes. Yeah. On uh storytelling, on magic, on mentalism, czar, of course. I have uh a lot of experience on and knowledge of of how to. And I think I I think I I try to uh convey to anyone who listens the uh the ways and methods of making your magic better. Not telling you that you had to be bizarre, but basically explaining uh how storytelling, narrative, and and meaning and magic can make your performances better. You'll probably be a better magician than me if you listen to those lectures very easily, as a matter of fact. Coe's Magic Conference.com. O's P-O-E-S-M-H-E-R-C-C-O-N-F-E-R-E-N-C-E dot com. And I did that from memory. I didn't have to read it. So's Magic Conference.com is where you can find the information about the conference. It is a conference for storytelling magicians. And even if you don't want to delve deeply into storytelling magic, it's a conference that'll help you have better magic shows. The show, the actual show, not the tricks, the show. It'll tell you how to do that better. And there's very few conferences, if any, that focus on that.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing. So there you go. Get your tickets and head down there. Thank you so much, Vince, for your time.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you very much, Jamie. It was wonderful being on here. It's great to talk to you again, too.
SPEAKER_01:Very much so. And of course, thank you all for listening. Do go check out Vince's books. I have two of his books, or I have the Houdini Seance, which is all about his uh very popular Houdini sounds, and I have Bizarre Magic. Both of them are not only jam-packed with absolute gems, but they're beautifully produced. Um, we are hoping to get uh Bizarre Magic in uh Alakazam very shortly as well. So do keep an eye out on that if you're in the UK. Of course, if you're in America, you can go to Steven's Magic as well. So please do get checked that, go go check that out. And of course, we will be back next week with a version of Desert Island Trick. So have a great week, everyone. Goodbye.
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