Michael Vincent

Your magic can be technically flawless and still feel forgettable. This conversation with Michael Vincent hit us like a wake-up call: the real goal is the experience you leave with the spectator, not the applause for your hands. Michael opens up about stepping away from performing to care for his mother, then returning with a new approach built around purpose, discipline, and audiences who choose to be there. 

The list becomes a deep dive into close-up magic and parlour magic fundamentals: Vernon’s Triumph as chaos versus order with the spectator doing the shuffling, Linking Rings built on crystal-clear conditions, Slydini’s Knotted Silks as pure visual impossibility, the Invisible Deck as shared fantasy made real, Roy Walton’s Smiling Mule as a lesson in timing, plus coin magic that leans on sound, story, and imagination. 

We also go hard on a topic many magicians avoid: reading and research. Michael argues that the best secrets still live in books, that mastery can’t be bought and that a strong repertoire is a reflection of identity. He caps it with two recommendations that shape creative showmanship and resilience: Darwin Ortiz’s Strong Magic and Viktor Frankl’s A Man’s Search For Meaning. If you want stronger reactions, better structure, and a more honest path to becoming great, press play, then subscribe, share this with a magician friend and leave a review with your own desert island list.

Michael Vincent’s Desert Island Tricks

Care Package: Triumph 

1. Linking Rings 
2. Knotted Silks 
3. Invisible Deck 
4. Smiling Mule
5. Coins Through Hand 
6. The Slot Machine 
7. Marlo’s Repeat Card to Pocket 
8. Your Card, My Card, Everybody’s Card 

Banishment. Complete and utter laziness 

Book. Strong Magic 

Item. A Man’s Search for Meaning 

Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk

Transcript

Research, Books, And Respect

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And I'm gonna raise something controversial here. And I don't care who gets upset because this is something that I find very distasteful in magic. When magicians see me do something, it's like my show has become a shot window for tricks for other magicians to go out and learn and perform. But they would never have thought of it otherwise if they hadn't seen me do it. I've had many magicians come up to me and say, Mike, where can I learn the silks? I said it's published. And they say where? In the library. If they ask me where, that just tells me they have no idea. But they want free access to information. Guess what? I'm not telling. Because chances are they have it on a book on their shelf at home. And this goes back to what I said earlier. It takes a lot of rigorous effort to go through a book and to find a hidden gem. All of my repertoire comes from the books on my shelf behind me, and that's not even my complete library. So I treasure my books because I'm pushing myself to find a repertoire that the world has ignored the micro-sicks.

Michael Vincent’s Career And Legacy

SPEAKER_02 1:32

We are reaching legendary status today with today's guest. It's gonna be a name that very few of you haven't heard of. And if you are new to Magic, then he really is a legend. There are so many of us that grew up watching today's guest on TV shows and in different theatre shows. If you ever get the chance to see him perform, it really is a bucket list thing to do. To see him perform live, it's something you must tick off your list. And like I mentioned, a lot of you are gonna know who he is. I feel like he's one of those guests that it's really difficult to give an introduction to because he is so prolific. But just to give you an idea, if you are new to magic, he has won the Magic Circles close-up magician of the year not once, not twice, but three times in 1983, 1991, and 2003, which is ridiculously hard to do once, let alone three times, which go to the standard that he's at. He was also named International Magician of the Year in 1993. He's literally worked everywhere, from the Magic Carton in Hollywood, international casinos, tons of television shows, including of course Penantela Full Art, etc. etc. Um, and so many prestigious live venues like the London Palladium. He really has just been everywhere. If you haven't seen his stuff, please do go check it out. Of course, we are putting his rather large backlog of material onto Unlimited slowly but surely, which means that there are going to be generations and generations to come who are gonna get the opportunity to see this man's work. I remember one of my favourite tricks of his was uh a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant coin trick, which I never say about coin tricks, but it's called Slot Machine. And it was his routine, uh, and it's this beautiful trick where he takes uh an ornate magic wand and he uses it like the pulley on a gambling machine, uh trying to put it so that everyone understands what it is. And then I remember when I first saw it, the finale of that trick I'm not gonna say. I don't want to say because I want you guys to just go and see there is a performance of it on YouTube, which we put on a couple of years ago, but it's just phenomenal. Um, all of his DVDs that he put out, elegant deceptions, we had Rhapsody D's in silver. There were so many wonderful projects, and I'm so pleased that future generations are gonna get to see this man's work. I'm gonna stop babbling on now. Of course, today's guest is the wonderful Michael Vincent. Hello, Michael.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Hi there, Jamie. Thanks for that lovely intro.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Well, you're just such a prolific creator. I know Harry is a huge fan of your work as well, as is Peter and all of us at Alakazam. And I really do mean it. Like I've said it about a few different people that we've interviewed, but I really did grow up with your magic. I I really went through my career learning your magic, checking out your your projects, and I think that's the same with so many of us.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

That's fantastic. Lovely to hear that.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

And now, going on, of course, what is in the future, what's the in the pipeline? Because we've actually had you on journeys on unlimited, and you spoke about what you wanted to achieve going forward because it feels like you've done everything already. So, what is next for Michael Vinson going forward?

Leaving Corporate Gigs For Showtime

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Well, just to give you a bit of a backstory, um, in 2019 I gave up my career. I gave up my career because my mother took sick, she had dementia, and I became a full-time carer. So, if you can imagine, for a three-year period, no magic whatsoever. And then we went into the lockdown. So I was caring for my mother day in, day out, um, right up until she took her last breath in 2022. So nothing. Um, and uh I came home after the funeral to an empty home and a world that I didn't recognize anymore. And so from 2022 to 2026, I have been uh not reinventing myself, but coming to terms with the life I have lived up to that point. And I decided for myself I don't want to be a corporate magician anymore. I don't want to work while people are eating, I do not want to approach people to watch my magic. If I do perform magic, I want to do it for people that actually want to see it. So I said to myself, okay, Michael, if people want to see your magic, that means it has to take place somewhere. Great. I need a venue. So I found venues, several venues, and I put on my own shows, michael vincentshowtime.com. And once a month, on average, I put on my events. Sometimes I'll do the show myself, sometimes I'll have a guest performer to come and join me to expand the experience of magic. And for me, that gives me so much joy because I'm not chasing after an audience anymore. I'm relying on my prestige, my backlog of work to inspire an audience to give up their Saturday evening to come see me work. And to me, this is a hobby. My actual living is teaching. I've got students all over the world. So anybody listening to this, if you want to improve the quality of your magic, send me an email. Let's have a conversation. I'm the one you need to speak to because my approach to teaching, coaching, and mentoring comes from the exact same process that I went through with Alan Allen, Slidini, Steinfield, Divernon, Larry Jennings, Marlowe. I met all my heroes, with the exception of Fred Caps, and they all gave me the keys to the kingdom. So I'm a first-generation student of the Great Masters. So I'm in bold positions to pass on what was given to me. So that's what I'm doing with my life right now, alongside being a photojournalist with my camera.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

Yeah, that's amazing. What an amazing kind of list of mentors that you had as well. And I think that's kind of the most important thing I think about when it comes to magic now is we have to make sure that magic from the greats carries on. It has to carry on through the generations. We we cannot lose that material and the the thoughts and the progression. Because, you know, even though methods and techniques have maybe gone on a lot since back then, a lot of the techniques that we have now are from the greats. They are from those people. That's what we're doing now. We're expanding on them, certainly, but it's still those same tricks. And it's people like you who are helping keep all of those people and all of those magicians alive.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Absolutely. And I'm really happy that we're having this conversation because I've been thinking, what are the tricks that I would want to keep with me no matter what? And that's what we're going to discuss today, because you just said it. We have to keep these great magic tricks alive. Because there's students coming up and they're overwhelmed by so much information now. Most magicians don't read. And the best secrets will be found in a book, not in a download. That's my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Yeah, there are some gems. We we've spoken about books on obviously we we've got a book option on on the list, and it's a real interesting thing where some people find it really difficult to learn from books, but they really want to learn from books, but they find it difficult. So, what advice would you have for those people?

SPEAKER_01 9:33

I honestly think the ability to read, not just imagine books, just to be able to read, is a superhero skill. Because if you have the ability to read a book, it means that if you are interested in any given subject, the world is your oyster. Now you've got the internet, the biggest library on the planet. When I was a boy, I had a physical library that I could go to. My mother taught me how to read a book, and she taught me how to read reading Hansel and Gretel and the Bible. So when I decided I wanted to learn magic, she said to me, Well, go to the library. I'm sure they have a book on it. Sure enough, I found the Harry Lorraine Book of Magic. The magic book. And that was it. I was in a book 24 hours a day, reading and bringing the printed word to life. It's funny we're having this conversation because behind me I've got my collection of Roy Walton. This book is amazing. The complete Walton, volume one. Do you know what makes me laugh about this book? There are hardly any drawings. There are some, but not many. But some of the best tricks in this book have no drawings. Because Roy Walton felt, well, if you're interested in card magic, you can at least execute all the basic moves. So there's no need for me to explain them. I'll just outline the instructions to make the trick work. But there's one trick in here that's been in my repertoire since 1990, and it's become a showstopper. Absolute showstopper. We'll get to it in a moment, okay?

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Okay. Well, I feel like we've had a couple of teasers there. Um, now before we get into your list, you've been around so much material. I mean, your back catalogue, even of your own creations, is vast. It's one of our biggest collections at Alakazam from one creator. So, how did you go about putting your list together? What is the process that you went through to make your list?

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Oh, that's easy. For me, these are the routines that I perform regularly now. The Michael Vincent you're speaking to is not the Michael Vincent that put those DVDs together. I've gone through a renaissance in the last three years since my mum died. I've eliminated a lot of tricks I don't want to do anymore, and I've held on to my core repertoire. So I've really trimmed the fat. So what was I looking at? What were the tricks that gave me the strongest reactions?

Desert Island Rules And Core Criteria

SPEAKER_02 12:14

If it's your first time listening, uh the idea is we're about to maroon Michael on his very own desert island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks, banish one item, take one book, one non-magic item. And of course, this is season three, which means he gets a care package with the deck of cards in as well, which I think is going to be a bit of a bonus to Michael in in this list, I'm guessing. So uh, yeah, let's go then, Michael. Let's start with your care package then. So uh as part of season three, Pete wanted to give everyone a deck of cards so that they could have one specific trick with that deck of cards. What would you put in your care package?

Triumph And Audience-First Design

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Well, I have to go with the very first card trick I ever learned. Bar none. And that is a routine by Divernon. And the routine is we all know it, it's triumph. Okay. Why did I choose Triumph? I'm choosing it because when I was 14, I got Stars of Magic. Okay, and that's I got it as a Christmas present. That beautiful blue book right here. This beautiful blue book. This is my original copy. I've still got it, and this is where I learnt Diver and Triumph. And as I fought, true story, as I followed the instructions, when I did that ribbon spread, and I saw all the cards face down with only the selection face up, I felt a chill come over my body, and I'm actually learning the trick, not performing it. And I think, my goodness, what on earth has just happened here? Alright, do this, do that, and then spread. I could not believe so I had to read the instructions again. So I fooled myself while I was learning it. I thought, wow, if I could get if it if this trick could make me react to it while I'm learning it, imagine how lay people will react if I performed it. That feeling has never left me where this trick is concerned. This trick is so important to me, especially now at my stage, because I have cultivated many different approaches to the triumph face up, face down scuffle. Um, the concept of triumph is about chaos versus order. So out of this chaotic visual mess that suddenly corrects itself, to me, that's the pinnacle of what can be done with a deck of cards. Because if you look at any other trick where cards are shuffled, and let's say you deal out five hands of poker, and you've got the four queens, the four kings, and the four aces in a five-handed game, that's an extension of chaos versus order. Imagine the spectator shuffles the deck, and they start dealing red cards to one side, black cards to another, classic out of this world, and at the end, all the colors are separated. That's another extension of the concept chaos versus order. And triumph for me is the most visually pure and stunningly beautiful effect in my repertoire, and that's the trick I would take with me. And I tell you why. I can do this trick seated at the table. I even created a stand-up version for my parlor show, which is spectacular. And my ultimate version, the spectator shuffles the deck face up and face down. They shuffle. Because I've always felt if I'm doing the shuffling, it becomes about my ability. But if the spectator shuffles a deck a normal deck face up and face down, where do we go from here? To me, that's an interesting concept to play with because it's no longer about me, it's about the spectator being confronted by chaos. And if we wait long enough, the natural order of chaos is to realign itself. And when I spread that deck out, and all the cards are now facing the right way, we have a stunning outcome, which can't be attributed to my skill. So as I'm speaking right now, you should be getting a sensation that I've taken triumph to another level. Yes, I have. That would be my carepatchy trick, hands down.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Okay, and you mentioned Divernin's version, but you also said that you have worked on your own version. Which version would you take with you? If you had could only perform that for the rest of your days, which version of Triumph would you take?

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Right, this is interesting because if I have an audience now, it'll be the version I just mentioned because the spectator does it, not me. Because magic for me now is about what happens to the spectator. If I perform magic and it's about me, they're gonna be left with, well, he's very clever, he's very skillful, okay, he's very charming, but at the end of the day, he has the skill, I don't. Done and dusted. I've gone beyond that now. My magic is now about what experience do I want to leave the spectator with? This question changed my whole career. Triumph for me now is about the spectator confronting chaos that they created. And when they spread the deck out, all the cards are facing the same way. There's a bit more to it than that, because there's a whole narrative around it. But that version for me is in perfect alignment with where my magic and my performance is now going. Magic design for the audience, not about me.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Well, I think that's a great one in it, your care package, and kind of sets us up for your main list. So let's go to position number one. What did you put in your first

Linking Rings And Structural Clarity

SPEAKER_02 18:18

slot?

SPEAKER_01 18:18

The linking rings. I've done my show in different venues around the London area over the last 20 years. And the one trick lay people talk about, Michael, I loved your show, but I can't get my head around those rings. I thought I knew how it was done, but what you're doing is different. So I really listened to the layman when they told me that because it made me realize lay people know how the trick's done, but they can't believe it. It's that simple. My mentor, Alan Allen, always said to me, Michael, never forget what I'm about to tell you. Give your audience credit for having an intelligence at least equal to yours. And if you operate on that plateau to begin with, you have to accept a few things. Lay people are not stupid. They know how the trick's done. So when I began performing Divern and Symphony of the Rings, it put me in pole position for my mind to expand about what it really takes to fool lay people. And the linking rings, to me, especially the Vernon routine, is probably the greatest design, choreography, and structured linking rings routine I have ever studied. Now I can say that because I have studied many versions of the linking rings. Four rings, three rings, five rings, six rings. I even studied an eight-ring routine because I wanted to understand the structure and the techniques that go into it. Why did I choose the Vernon routine? It has the perfect balance of technique, magical impact, structure, the whole design of it. And when the routine is finished, the audience has the feeling that they have examined every single ring. Because at the end, I take the rings off one at a time. There's Z six solid separate rings if you do the full routine. And to me, the Werner routine has to be done in four. You can't leave any bits out simply because of the progression that one phase sets you up for the next phase, and for the next phase, it's magnificent. How do I know? Watch my YouTube video, and you will hear lay people reacting as if they've seen real magic. I've made a few adjustments, which I'm very proud of, and uh it's amplified the whole experience of that trick for lay people. Number one, hands down.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

I think it's kind of an interesting concept as well, the idea that an audience may know certain tricks, and we think of that as a negative. But if we know where to where the audience are looking, then it's easier to divert their attention. So in the very fact that they understand the method to something, or generally understand the method for something, for us that means that we can take that method that they think they know and turn it on its head and make it even more amazing for them, because then they have no idea of how it's working.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

And the beautiful thing is it crushes their thoughts about what they think they knew. And it puts them in a position where they feel, oh well, I have to start again, but where? I don't even want the audience to get to that point now. I want to set my game up so that the first thought in their mind is, wow, he's letting me examine the rings right at the beginning. That's unusual. Because guess what? In my routine, the spectators are examining single rings before I go into the routine. This is unprecedented. I'm a big fan of Ascanio. Ascanio wrote a book called The Structural Conception of Magic, Volume 1. In this book, he distinguishes that the strength of a magic trick is in direct proportion to the initial condition being crystal clear. Two solid separate rings. Because the final condition is displaying two rings that have been examined and they are now linked together. Now, what makes the effect really strong is the gap between the initial condition and the final condition. This was the breakthrough. The gap between the initial condition and the final condition, where the linking rings is concerned, is very, very short. Because from the minute they've been examined, I take them back and I link them. No hesitation. Very short. And that is where you get no way. You get the no way moment. You'll actually hear lay people say this: no way. What are they really saying? There is no way you could have done any jiggery pokery, and yet the rings are linked. Isn't that beautiful? So I structure all of my magic now around a very clear initial condition so that the final condition is crystal clear. And now comes the important part. Some tricks have a big gap between the initial condition and the final condition. That's as wide as the Grand Canyon, as far as I'm concerned. So I look at how can I shorten that gap? This is where my technique comes in, my structure and design process. This is a very big conversation. But what I want to give your listeners is something to consider. If you're doing an ambitious card, you've just shown it's come to the top. Imagine turning it face down and immediately putting it back in the deck, no moves, and it's back on top. That's a very clear initial condition and a very clear final condition. And the moment between it going in the middle to it then appearing on top, very short. And the cleaner the handling, the stronger the effect. Ridascanio. Very important.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

And also check out Michael's uh YouTube video of Linkin Rings as well.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Very important. Don't copy it. Because it's all original work.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Okay, so be inspired, but do not copy. Okay. Exactly. Now that's a number one. Let's go to number two, then, Michael. What did you put in your second

Knotted Silks And The Reading Habit

SPEAKER_02 25:06

position?

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Well, in my immediate repertoire, Slidini's knotted silks. This is another example of a trick that has a very short critical interval. Two silks for examined. I can tie them into a very strong knot. And as I give the opposite ends of the silks to the spectator to tie, they come apart. The spectators can now tie the knots. They can tie two, three, four knots. I give them one into hand, they come apart. I love this trick because magic happens. And there doesn't seem to be any trickery from one moment to the next. Initial condition, final condition. And it's taken me over 40 years to understand this routine. And I'm currently at work on a brand new script for it because this is the area that I struggle the most. But for me, it's a very pure effect. Picture this: I have the spectators tied two silks together. I tuck the silks into a glass. I take out another pair of silks, which are left untied, and I tuck those ends into another glass. I do my little magic gesture. The two tied silks have now come apart, and with no moves, I grab the end of one silk and the other glass, and when I whisk it out, they're tied together. Sympathetic silks. Magnificent. Pure, pure magic. This is my second trick because it creates the feeling within me that magic is happening. And with my new script, the audience will feel it even more so because I'm using it as a metaphor for something that people engage with every day of their lives. Okay. More often than not, when I do the linking rings, I follow it with Slidini silks in my full show.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

I think Slidini silks is an interesting one as well, because it is a it's kind of an archaic uh prop, but also not. It's something that people don't really carry uh handkerchiefs nowadays, which is kind of what they're stimulating, but it's also just a fabric, a piece of fabric. So it's still instantly recognizable. But as a plot, it's a still uh it seems to have uh it it's not really in favor as much anymore. Why do you think that some of these uh classic tricks go out of favor over the years?

SPEAKER_01 27:57

This is really interesting because if you look at the magic fraternity as it is today, we can go onto various websites and we'll see the latest and greatest trick being offered and promoted. A few months later there'll be another one to replace it. We're not given any time to master anything. I'm so glad I came into magic when I did because the world of magic was heading in the direction that it's now in. But my trajectory came in when I still had time to read a book and I had time to work on things. Now I have to really force myself to sit down and focus on something. So it's not a surprise to me that a great trick like the knotted silks um has gone out of vogue. But I tell you this, a few magicians have seen me perform it, and guess what? It's in their repertoire now. And I'm gonna raise something controversial here, and I don't care who gets upset because this is something that I find very distasteful in magic. When magicians see me do something, it's like my show has become a shop window for tricks for other magicians to go out and learn and perform. But they would never have thought of it otherwise if they hadn't seen me do it. I've had many magicians come up to me and say, Mike, where can I learn the silks? I said it's published. And they say, where? In the library? If they ask me where, that just tells me they have no idea. But they want free access to information. Guess what? I'm not telling. Because chances are they have it on a book on their shelf at home. And this goes back to what I said earlier. It takes a lot of rigorous effort to go through a book and to find a hidden gem. All of my repertoire comes from the books on my shelf behind me, and that's not even my complete library. So I treasure my books because I'm pushing myself to find a repertoire that the world has ignored in favor of the latest whatever. So when I leave the house, I very often have a set of Svadini handkerchiefs in my breast pocket, and it looks like an everyday normal handkerchief. And I like what you just said there, Jamie. You said it looks like a piece of fabric, which it is. That's it. And you can perform this trick if you've got a good story to go with it. So for me, it's a winner, hands down.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Yeah, it's a phenomenal routine. If you've not ever seen it, please do go check it out. I know that I think it was Penguin relaunched it maybe last year or the year before. Um and I think it's the original handling and routine as well. Um, so it's a great way to learn it and also find the right prop because sometimes with certain tricks, especially in this one, finding the right prop really matters in order to make it as smooth as possible. Um, but I think that's another great one. It's nice that we've got a couple of classics coming back as well, and hopefully people can check these out. Uh, let's go to number three, then, Michael. What's in your third position?

Invisible Deck And Modern Presentations

SPEAKER_01 31:36

This is gonna sound really interesting, but I really mean this. One of the greatest card tracks of all time is Trumroll, the invisible deck. I want the listener to forget the method for a moment, forget how it's done, and just pay attention to the concept. It's pure fantasy and whimsy. You pretend you've got an invisible deck, you have the spectator pick a card, they turn it upside down, they put it back in the middle, the cards go back in the box, and then you snap your fingers, and a real deck appears. A real deck. When you open the deck and spread them out, there's one card face down. It's the chosen card. That's the effect. Now forget the standard presentation for a moment and just look at what the audience sees happen. I did this exercise for myself. Okay, a card is chosen, the audience likes the fantasy, it's good fun, lots of good gags. And then from nowhere, a deck of cards appears in my hands, like this. And my hands were seen empty just a moment ago. When I take the cards out, there's one card upside down, and in my version, I can give the deck to the spectator to shuffle for my next series of routines. So I do the invisible deck routine with a regular deck. Okay? Now, I've put this routine in on my list because it looks and feels like real magic has happened. I've created an image in their mind, they played along with it, and then I took their image and made it concrete in the material world. And the subtext to that is anything we can create together, ladies and gentlemen, I can manifest it. I'll show you what I mean, and then I go into the routine. It's beautiful. And uh when I do my stand-up show, I always include the invisible deck because it gives me at least four and a half, five minutes of entertainment. That's unprecedented for a card trick. Okay, so my card magic now has become a visual fantasy, a cerebral exercise, in some cases, pure mind reading, and in many cases demonstrations of skill, but all wrapped up in a very interesting narrative about something. Okay? So the invisible deck is on my list and always will be for the rest of my life, hands down.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

It really is a phenomenal effect. Again, we've spoken about it so many times on the podcast and how it it's kind of lasted the test of time, because this is kind of it it reminds me of the Linkin Rings when we spoke earlier about the method being in the public domain. It's really interesting that you know the Tvengali deck is, I would say, in the public domain. I would say um a tapered deck is in the public domain. But invisible deck has somehow stayed secret. It somehow stayed in our world and hasn't crossed over into the real world. And I wonder if that's just because there are so many different ways of presenting it, and the audience cannot really distinguish between one performance and the other because the performances are so different.

SPEAKER_01 35:26

That's a very good point. Um yes, these tricks are in the public domain. You can go into Amazon and buy an invisible deck or an ultra-mental deck, as it's often called. And let's put a few historical things in place. The title Invisible Deck is the name of the presentation for the ultra-mental. As my memory serves me, I believe it was a magician by the name of Eddie Field who created the presentation we now know as the Invisible Deck, right? And the method, the ultra-mental deck, makes it 100% practical. Okay, the fact that it's in the public domain, the public will be aware that you can buy a deck that helps you to achieve that outcome, but probably nothing more. And it takes a lot of ingenuity to use it in a way that even magicians wouldn't recognize. Okay, now the Svengali deck is a magnificent principle. I will never forget the first time I saw Svengali deck when I was about 13. It was beyond, if you look at all the effects that you could do with it, it was beyond the ambitious card for me. It was closer to Hof and everywhere and nowhere, but with all the different tricks, all that from one deck, it's a great principle. The ultra mental deck, I use that in many different ways, not necessarily with the invisible deck presentation, but I use it as an out in case I find the wrong card. Ah, well, just as well. I had a backup. Bring out the other deck and reveal it. It can save your life when sleight of hand lets you down. You get that? So it's about appreciating the strategy you have at place and how you can make use of it.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

There's so much information already. We're only three tricks in, and there's so much to think about already. I think this is going to be one of the ones that people go back to and listen over and take those references and really study a bit more. Let's go to number four then. What's in your fourth spot?

Smiling Mule And Performing The Moment

SPEAKER_01 37:41

If I had to choose one card trick that I could perform in a stand-up show, and it has never ever let me down, it will be The Smiling Mule by Roy Walton. The smiling mule for me is magnificent. Roy Walton is a genius. He gave the bare bones description in his book, The Complete Walton. No drawings. He doesn't even describe the techniques required. And yet you achieve an extraordinary outcome. I'm gonna be honest with you. I was first shown the smiling mule back in the 1980s by Shiv Dugal. I'll be honest with you, I didn't even know what the effect was. And Shiv did it well, but it didn't make much sense to me. So I forgot about it because Shib was a big fan of Roy Walton. It was in the 1990s that I really connected with the Smiling Mule. I thought, wow, this is a great trick. It's got built-in humor, and you've got this stunning outcome at the end. Okay, I'll start performing it. And I've been performing it ever since. And not only that, I've created my own staging, my own script, my and how I bounce off the audience with it. And I discovered something about this routine that was not documented, but I'm gonna mention it here. This routine taught me a valuable lesson about how to sell the moment. You can't rush it. You've got to allow the audience time to see where the narrative is going. Because you want them slightly ahead of you psychologically, but not too far ahead. That when the finish comes, you don't get the ovation you merit. So at each stage, I'm checking in with the audience so they know where we are, and this routine has six moments of magic in it that even Roy Walton didn't document. Six moments from one card trick. And uh, this book really makes me laugh because the description starts at 175 and has one, two, three, four, five, six paragraphs of text. Nothing more, and you've got a showstopper right there. But it's a routine you have to live with because the more you perform it, the more you'll learn something, and each performance will teach you something about how to perform and entertain with a deck of cards because this isn't a card trick anymore for me, it's an existential experience for the audience, and to me, that's a massive breakthrough in my ability to build rapport, connection, and engagement with a large audience, and you can do it seated at a table. I even did it on the Great Wall of China for a small group, and I've done it in big theaters around the world. This trick. What does that tell you?

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Wow, yeah, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Yeah. Wow, indeed. All from one card trick. Yep. That card trick has taught me more about card magic than any technical book you care to mention.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Now, when we talk about you and kind of your your performance style, I've always thought of you as I know that you're a closed-up performer and you've got a huge back catalogue of closed-up magic, but I've always thought of you as a parlor performer of a um a parlour creator. Like your card tricks, I feel that they are more of an experience. They are more theatrical than other performances. So for you, is there a joy in taking a close-up trick and turning it into a parlor piece? And what is that process

Turning Close-Up Into Parlor Theater

SPEAKER_02 41:54

like for you? How do you do it so seamlessly?

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Wow, that's so great. First of all, thank you. If you saw me as a parlor magician, that tells me from my DVDs alone, something must have landed on you. Because guess what? This is the magician I have become now talking to you. I can do close up, and that's my foundation. But all of my shows now are stand up for large groups. Right. Let me answer your question. How do I take a car trick off the table and turn it into an experience for a large group? I'm gonna say something radical here. To play big with a card trick has nothing to do with the size of the prop. A deck of cards is a small prop. And if you're in front of 200 people, they can't see the pips. If you say I have a deck of cards there, they'll take your word for it. Probably only the people in the first few rows can see the cards. Right. So this immediately told me card magic on stage has nothing to do with the prop, but everything with to do with how big the effect is and how big I can play with it for a big group of people. So when I look at my tricks now, I'm asking, does this have potential to be a parlor mystery? Yes, it does. How? Well, I think I'm gonna need several people on stage with me. For example, okay, what's the effect? Well, smiling mule is a sandwich trick. Two jokers trap a send a name card. That's the effect. But why does it have such a big impact? I'm choosing my words carefully. It has a big impact because I spend all of my energy out there with the audience talking to them. But I do have a member of the audience on stage with me. So I've created a triangle. Three points, three focal points: me, the insisting spectator, and the audience. And there's energy going through all three points of focus. Okay. What other tricks can I do on stage? How do I do that? Can I do triumph on stage? Yes, I can. I want out a way to do it. How can I replace the riffle shuffle so that the audience can see the big effect? So what I'm distinguishing here is, and I hope the listener can hear me asking myself questions. I'm always asking questions. How can I take this off the table? How can I replace the riff or shuffle with a face up, face-down shuffle? How can I do that? XYZ. And my brain's going through my database of knowledge of all the things that I have seen. Um, I'm trying to give you a concrete example from my repertoire. Some tricks show up better because they're visual, like a rope routine, for example. But if I'm focusing exclusively on card magic for a large audience, it's all about the presence of the performer and his ability to play big, knowing that the size of the effect will match. Even though I've explained it, I don't think it makes much sense. Because if I was a listener listening to myself, I would immediately send me an email, said, Michael, I'm working on this trick. I would like to do this for my company event. There'll be 50 people in the audience, but this is a table trick. How can I play big with it? I would get on a Zoom call and then we will examine it and think of ways in which we can elevate the experience. It's all about elevating the experience off the table because all of my magic in Parla happens in this square frame. That's my frame. I'm thinking like a photographer now because anything inside this frame, 35 millimeter, that's where the magic happens. So no matter where I'm turning, the frame moves. So the audience gets this picture of me. Okay, if you see me do gypsy thread, everything happens here, right in front of my face. And when I finish the routine, I'm in this position, the thread unravels, and watch this. I let go, and the thread falls to the floor. True story. Because you know the trick. But at this end, that's my fin, that's my finish. That's what I wanted the audience to see at the end. So that's reminded me of my core thing now. When I'm learning a trick, any trick, I put the props down, I close my eyes, and I visualize that I'm sat out in the audience watching myself. What do I want to see happen? If I had the power of a real magician, what would it look like? This is this question has transformed my entire repertoire. No kidding. I'll give you some examples. You're familiar with Out of This World? My version begins with the spectator shuffling the deck. And from that moment on, I go straight into Out of This World. The presentation for it. And the spectators dealing, and the colours are all separated at the end. No kidding. I wanted to see the spectator sign four aces, they are returned to the deck, and I go into four different pockets with empty hands, and I remove all four aces from four different pockets. Divernance travelers. Triumph. I want the spectator to do the shuffling face up and face down. And the effect happens. How do I achieve that? Okay, and I explore all the possibilities from my database of knowledge. And if I don't find what I'm looking for, I have to work backwards and let my imagination take over. Because sometimes I don't have a method. In fact, I'm working on something right now and I don't have a method for it. And it's only I solved 70%, but it's the 30% missing. I'm trying to solve 30% of a composition I'm working on. It's an ongoing, infinite game of possibilities.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Amazing. Well, let's go to number five then. So what would you have taken in your fifth position?

Coin Routines Powered By Imagination

SPEAKER_01 49:23

I have the props right in front of me. Four silver, five silver half dollars, one copper English penny, and with these six coins, oh no, one, yep, stick one, two, three, one, two, three, four, five, six coins. I perform my favorite card coin trick of all time. It doesn't have a fancy title beyond coins through the hand. I give the spectator five coins to hold. He makes a fist. My hands are empty, and through the back of their hand, I pluck a coin out, and then I do it again. When he opens his hand, he's now holding three coins. I then take those three coins and give them to a lady. She verifies she's got three coins. She closes her hand. I take one out, she's now holding two. I take those two coins, put them in my hand, take one out, I've now got one coin. I give the last coin to the spectator on my left, I hold the copper coin, and there's a transposition between the copper and the silver at the end. So this routine I started working on while my mother was still alive. So one afternoon, mum was fast asleep, and I just thought, Michael, learn a trick, any trick, just to take my mind off things. So I thought, hmm, I don't know, something spoke to me. It's very strange. I always fancied Tommy Wander's routine, the sock coins. Yeah, the thing with the red sock and the purse frame. But I didn't have the coins that Tommy used. Tommy's routine was gaff to the hilt. Pure gaffs. I thought, oh damn it, okay. Well, can you can you replicate the effect using normal coins? This is what I've arrived at, my own routine for Tommy's original sock coins. So my routine doesn't use a sock. I have these in a purse, I take them out, and I'm able to create the most beautiful six minutes of magic with two people sat at the table with me. Got an interesting premise and plot that makes sense. And I tell you this: when the lady's got three coins in her hand and she's she holds on to them and she sees my hand empty, and I do this action, and I pluck a coin from the back of her hand, it's a visceral and shocking moment. Because when she opens her hands, I can't tell you the number of times a woman has burst into tears, or she hyperventilated, or she froze. Some women even it let out an expletive. What the you understand? That told me I've got a masterpiece on my hands. I wish you could see it. If you go onto YouTube, you'd have to go to some of my past videos, you'll see this routine being performed. Um, and it's my version of Tommy Wonder's sock coins, and it's my favorite coin trick. Bar none. Everything that I know about coin magic came to beer in this routine. I don't consider myself to be a coin man. Having said that, the coin magic that I perform is high caliber coin magic. You mentioned one earlier, the slot machine. I would put that at number six so we can use that as a segue if you want. For me, the slot the slot machine represents the highest arc of coin vanishes and and the coin production. And in my routine, I vanish two coins cleanly. When the third coin vanishes, that sets the audience up for the big finish. Because when I pull the last coin in, I've I've got that shower of coins at the end. It's magnificent, and uh it's a trick that makes sense, especially if you use this the gambling premise. And it took me a long time to feel comfortable with it because my nervous system was wired for the original routine by Dr. Sour, which was published in Genie. And Saur's method used pure sleight of hand. Magnificent, but I couldn't do it when I first learnt it, so I left it alone. And then I graduated to John Carney. I did the Carney routine for a while, but my method is 100% practical, but I had to take my time with it so that I could unlearn the mannerisms for the Carney routine. Now my routine fits me like a glove. Okay. So two great coin tricks back to back right there. And pure magic.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

I think for me, the interesting thing about slot machine, and I was gonna kind of mention it. You mentioned something earlier on about uh like the audience's imagination. I think sometimes we we forget that we can play with the imagination, and that is in itself a method that we don't perhaps utilize as much as we should. Certainly we do misremembrance and we we make people forget the sequence of things, but for me, when I first saw you do slot machine, that was the first time where I saw someone take uh uh prop, very, very basic prop, uh, a wine glass, some coins, and a magic wand, and transform them into something that my imagination filled in the gaps. I when you were first performing it, I didn't really see a hand and a magic wand. I saw the top machine lever, and then you you make that a sound effect, and then you get the first coin, and then you drop it in the glass, and now you have that audible thing. So if you're in a larger audience, everyone can hear that coin in the glass. So it really is a masterclass in storytelling how to take the trick off of the table, how to use props to create uh imaginative scenarios, but also the props were playing a practical role in disguising the method. By, of course, having a wand in your hand, you were hiding something else that was going on. So that's why that one trick in particular always connected with me, and that's before we even get into the final, which is that shocking WTH moment. So uh yeah, for me, that one routine touches on everything that you've said so far in this podcast. That that is everything. You've elevated it, you've used the imagination of the audience, it works for a larger audience. There's an interesting story, it's relatable, it uses props in an interesting way. It really is just a phenomenal routine.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

You know, you've mentioned a few things there which resonate with me because when it comes to coin magic, in my mind, there's only two effects. You can make a coin disappear, you can show your hand empty, and a coin appears. That's it. Those are the only two effects possible with coins. Many magicians have argued and said, Well, Michael, what about spellbound? I said, Well, that's a double vanish and a double production. And if you get the timing right, you can create the feeling that one coin is transformed into another. But unfortunately, it becomes a demonstration of the method. Because lay people aren't stupid, they're immediately going to say, Well, where's the other coin? And the moment that thought enters their mind, you've lost the effect. Right. So, some smart magician in my lecture said, Well, what about coins through a table? Well, that's a co that's a vanish and a production through a solid object. What about coins across? That's a vanish and a reproduction through time and space. They vanish from one hand and reappear in the other. But you've chosen to create the experience of coins traveling through time and space. Once you understand what actually happens, you then get to choose the experience you want the spectator to have. And you then choose your script and narrative to communicate that. Alright? Um, and the fact that the spectator has an imagination, this is where the engagement comes in, because your script and your narrative get to paint on the canvas of the spectator's imagination. You've got a healthy imagination because you saw a machine in your mind losing money, and then the cascade at the end. Isn't that beautiful? So the real experience happened in your mind.

SPEAKER_02 58:41

Amazing. Well, if anyone's not seen it, that's another one. It is on Unlimited. Just go go and watch it. Um there's a performance of it on YouTube as well. It's a phenomenal, phenomenal routine. It will last a test of time. And if you've always wanted to do a coin a piece of coin magic that is accessible to all, I would say it there's no way it's not accessible, but will allow you to focus on your presentation and developing your presentational skills. In essence, it is the vanish of three coins, right, and the appearance of many more. Many, many more when you when you first see it. But there's just so much more in the presentation and the idea behind it, and its simplicity is actually what makes it so engaging. It's I placed a coin in, I pulled the lever, I lost. Absolutely right. I put the second coin in. I pulled the lever, I lost again. It's it's that peaked and troughs all the way through the routine. Absolutely right, correct. And then at the end, that finale, oh my word, when I first saw that. Yeah, it's brilliant. It's such a phenomenal routine. Please go check it out. Um so let's go to the tail end of your eight. So we've got two more, Michael. What's in number seven?

Marlowe Card To Pocket Tribute

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

I'm thinking carefully now because. Oh, right. This is interesting. This is one of the routines that has recently re-entered my repertoire. It's a routine that I was performing since the very start, probably 1980-81, and it's the card-to-pocket, but not any card-to-pocket. Specifically, um, it's a routine by Ed Marlowe called Marlowe's Repeat Card to Pocket, which I first learned in the Cardition. Okay, and in the Cardition, Marlowe explains it in conjunction with a beautiful technique, which I won't mention, but you can learn it because the two things are literally back to back in the book. Why has it re-entered my repertoire? It's now in my stand-up show. When I do my stand-up show, I pay tribute to one of my mentors, and Marlowe's one of them. So the audience gets to learn about a man they would never have heard of if it wasn't for me. This is Ed Marlowe. He was born in 1913. He was an engineer by profession, but he started practicing sleight of hand quite late in his mid-20s. But by the 1940s, he hit his stride as a technical wizard and master. By the 1950s, he started uh releasing his written notes, which became a magnum opus known as revolutionary car technique. So big this book, and I use this line in my patter. If you study English literature, you've got to read Shakespeare and Dickens. For Slight of Hand Magic, for guys like me, I study Marlowe, absolute heaven. That's my actual script. And I said, I'd like to create for you now a Marlowe miracle. I want you to get the feeling of what it must have been like to sat opposite the table with this absolute master with a deck of cards. So I do the routine. And let me tell you, when you look at it, it doesn't look possible. The card, their card goes in the deck, there's no moves. They see my hand empty. I go into the pocket. What was your card? Is that how you sign your name? Yes, it is. First, it goes back in the middle. My hand goes in the pocket for the second time. Second reveal. No kidding now. I give the deck to the spectator. The spectator puts the cards back in the box. Let me do this for you. This is what the spectator sees. The cards are inside the box, and I'm holding their card. Their card goes into the box while it's into the deck while it's in the box. I give them the deck. They close the flap. And I'm in this position. I now go into my pocket. Nothing there. Oh, sorry, I should have told you. Marla always stressed to have a big finish. I then remove my wallet from the left side, and inside the zipper compartment is the sign selection. I love that finish because I've got a triangle from the spectator holding the deck to my pocket to my wallet. It makes no sense. You'll see a video of it on YouTube. It's become a showstopper. So I don't perform this and the smiling mule in the same show. When I do shows at the circle now, I'll do my core set and one card routine, no more. So I as much as I love card magic, I don't do much in my stand-up show, just enough. So the audience sees mastery with a variety of different objects. This routine can stand by itself. The smiling mule can stand by itself. And a few other routines. But this routine has become a masterpiece in my show. And for me, it is a real tribute to Marlowe because the finish is my idea. Giving the deck to the spectator, putting the card in the box, and it's now in my wallet. That makes no sense. And I'm not using any gimmicks. No extractor, nothing. A regular deck. Jack Carpenter, when he saw it, you know Jack Carpenter from the US? He said, Mike, what the hell? That was his reaction.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

Yeah, that's amazing. Now we're coming to the end of your list, and a second ago you mentioned that you wouldn't do the smiling mule and you wouldn't do uh Marlowe's repeat card to pocket in the same set. Is this something that you would use as a closing routine then? Would you use the smiling mule and Marlowe's repeat card to pocket as a closing effect?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

It's funny you say that, but I have used both of them as a closer. Um simply because they're that strong. And if I'm doing a short set of say 10, 15 minutes, then yes, it would be a closer. But more often than not, I like to close with the gypsy thread after the card trick. Because the my card magic now has become a disobobulating experience for lay people. If you were here with me now, I would say think of a card, and I would take you through a psychological process, and I can't. You not, I would read your mind and tell you what card you thought of. I won't do it now because the setup's not right. But if we should ever meet face to face and you got a deck, just say, Mike, remember that thinker card? Yeah, I'll do it for you. Because I'm stripping away all the nonsense of excessive handling, excessive Elmsley counts. No, my my card magic has now become a very pure experience for lay people. Okay. Um when I say pure experience, we are now at the point of the eighth trick, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

Yeah, so we're we're on the final effect.

Houdin Transformations And List Recap

SPEAKER_01 1:06:39

Right. Where is my book? Do I have it to hand? It's on the library somewhere. Okay. My favorite book is written by Robert Houdan. And this book is called The Secrets of Conjuring and Magic. And in this book is one of the great card tracks of all time. Hands down. I will describe the effect. On my table, I have a wine glass. I remove the Joker. The Joker goes into the glass, face onto the audience. Okay? I have four members of the audience each stop me at a random card. Four random cards. I say to the audience, I could do some kind of jiggery pokery, but I don't need to. I'm gonna use the Joker. So I put the Joker on the palm of the first spectator. They concentrate. What was your card? That's the first transformation. I take this card, I put it on the hand of the second spectator. Second transformation into their card. And I repeat with the third and the fourth spectator. And then it changes back into the Joker for the ending. This routine was published on my Alakazem DVD, volume one, and it's called My Card, Your Card, Everybody's Card. In the Royal Road to Card Magic, it was called Everybody's Card. And it's based on the original Hoodan trick. And let me tell you, it's magnificent because the audience is only ever aware of one card, a single card, and yet still it transforms into their card. My version allows four different selections to be seen by the whole audience. Okay. In the original Hudan trick, four different selections was implied. That's all I'm gonna say. Your listeners are gonna have to go and read the original to understand what I just said. Okay? So I wanted it to be an explicit experience of magic. True story. After my performance once, a gentleman came up to me and he said, it was a real pleasure to see a master of his craft at work. A layman. So I hope your listeners can tell that my repertoire of tricks all come from old magic books. And I've been working on these routines my whole life. I was inspired to practice them even when I had no skill. I saw what tools were required, even though I couldn't execute them, so I thought, well, this routine's a bit beyond me, so I need to practice these specific techniques. Once I can do these techniques, I'll go back to the routines. But even during that short early window, I still had good tricks that I could do well for people. But my mind was set on travelers, the transformations, the cards to pocket, um, the ladies looking glass, so many great magic tricks. So that's my that's my lifetime's repertoire, shrunk down to this core, distinct catalogue of routines that have my signature on it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:25

Well, as uh a tribute to this episode going out, then on the day that this episode goes out, your card, my card, everybody's card will be available on Unlimited. So we'll put it on there for people to go and study, check out. So if you're an unlimited member, after you've listened to this, do not finish yet because we've still got three items. Um, but go over, check it out. But whilst you're there, check out all of Michael's stuff because, like he just said, this really is a collection of classic effects. And a couple of these that I've not heard of, and I feel like I'm fairly well versed in magic. So that's the importance of studying this kind of stuff and and listening to what Michael says when it comes to you know discovering these things from books. And if you struggle with books, like we said, then people like Michael are the people you need to learn from because they've put this stuff on video. Uh these are the things that you could be studying and you know going back over and checking it out. So your card, my card, everybody's card will be on unlimited by the time this is up. And it's a great way to close out your list. I'm gonna quickly revisit it. So for your care package, we had Triumph, we had Linking Rings, Notted Tilt, Invisible Deck, The Smiling Mule, Coins Through Hand, followed by the slot machine. Brilliant effect. We got Marlowe's repeat card to pocket, and we closed out with your card, my card, everybody's card. That really is a lifetime of work and experience, but not just your lifetime. That's what I think is really interesting. This is the the lifetime of so many people before you as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:08

Absolutely. And uh if your listeners get stuck, they can always communicate with me direct. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:16

Absolutely. We'll get on to how they can get hold of you. But before we get there, we've got three

Banishment, Best Book, Final CTAs

SPEAKER_02 1:12:22

more things. Now, obviously, we gave you eight tricks. We're gonna be extra mean to you and only give you one each of these. So let's start with your banishment, Michael. So I want you to imagine that you're about to dig a big sandy hole on your island. You're about to throw something inside from the industry. What are we gonna bury on your island and banish for good?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:43

This may sound controversial and I can live with it. I would banish complete and utter laziness. It takes a lot of work to become a great magician. And uh I can't help but feel there's this entitlement that you can buy your way to mastery, that you can spend a specific amount of money and buy a great trick and think that's gonna make the day for your show. There's no doubt by spending a lot of money you can buy a great trick and achieve a decent reaction from your audience, but that doesn't mean you're a great magician. To me, a great magician comes from something that money can't buy. It comes from will, it comes from discipline, it comes from focus, it comes from exercising your imagination, it comes from your passion and your commitment and dedication to do the work necessary. It comes from coming home after a gig knowing you did a crap show and getting out your notebook and writing down everything that went wrong and then brainstorming why did it go wrong? What could I have done differently? It comes from videotaping yourself and doing your post-show analysis and becoming your worst critic. I am my own worst critic. Why? Because, Jamie, I videotape every performance, no exception. Every performance. I did four shows last Saturday, and I've got four distinct footages that I've watched so that I can correct my timing where necessary, and I can make adjustments to my beats and so forth. And uh I would banish this attitude of entitlement that if I spend X amount, then this surely would make me a great magician, or I should be able to expand my show. I think it's important to listen, what I just said, I fell into myself. I spent money when I shouldn't have done, and I experienced buyer's remorse. I actually said to myself, Michael, you're a Muppet. This is not you. You're a reader, you're a researcher, you're a scientist, you like experimenting. Come on, man, don't be lazy, get back to work. I said this to myself, and uh you can see Marlowe's magazines behind me, the new ones, right? Guess what? I've got the originals from Marlowe. So I've been reading Marlowe's magazines all my life. There's a trick in Marlowe's magazine that I did on Penantella. First one. It's magnificent. But I would never have found it if I didn't read Marlowe. I wish it was alive to have seen it, because it would have brought tears to his eyes. Because he got a gasp from the audience. You know the one Shuffle finale? I did it on Quest for Mastery. My DVD. That finish has gotten me a standing ovation every time I've done it. So I challenge your listeners to prove to themselves that they have the will, the passion, and the discipline for magic. Go to your library, take one book that you haven't read, and put a tick against every routine that appeals to you. And then go back through the list and learn the first one on the list. Learn it. Practice it, get it to a decent standard where it's performance ready, and then go out and perform it. Run it in, make notes on it, improve it before you learn the next trick. If I can take a trick from a Roy Walton book and thank him for it, and Roy Walton say to me afterwards, Well, Michael, I created the smiling mule be for a performer like you. That made my day. I said to him, Roy, do you realize you created one of the greatest card tricks of all time? He says, Which one's that, Michael? The smiling mule. Ah, yes, it's a good trick, isn't it? So I love it. I said, Roy, I've done your trick on stage. He says, Well, there aren't many who can do that, but I'm sure it was great. I said, it was beyond great. The audience loved it. I said, It's in every show I do. He says, Well, Michael, I created it for someone like you. That made my day. And he said those words to me a few weeks before he died. That's my last memory of Roy Walton. I was so happy that I could say that to him. But he gave me the keys to the kingdom. He referred to me as a performer, not a technician. Because he already took for granted that I had the technique. Does that make sense? Okay, so I challenge your readers. Put the work in. Because I align myself with students who are willing to put the work in. I'm not interested in magicians that have money to spend and think they've got a good show. Because guess what? I can tell and I see it. If this is controversial and magicians hate me afterwards, that's fine. Because I was part of that conversation because it seemed easy and have to go through the books. Well, I've stopped that nonsense. Okay? So I I believe that I am at the forefront now of a brand new renaissance in magic that dedicated students and practitioners willingly go back to basics and they go through their entire repertoire and with cutthroat decision making get rid of any trick that doesn't cut the mustard. Get rid of it. But the tricks that you hold on to are a perfect reflection of your identity. All the tricks that we've spoken about have been with me since childhood. I just didn't have the skills to do it at the time. But I got the skill now. So everything's matched. And not only that, my toolbox is now big enough to fulfill anything I can create in my mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:16

I completely agree with you. I would be there with you. But I also think that there's something to be said about the sense of achievement. And I think that that's what some people don't get as well. You know, there's nothing better than the first time you write a show, like a fully functioning show, and you finish the show, and the audience has an incredible reaction. And there's a moment where you sit back and there's there's like a moment where you have to believe it. You have to go, oh my God, I just did that. I've just written an entire two-hour show for an audience who have just loved it, and they've they've you know praised it. That what what a sense of achievement for you as a performer and and in terms of the growth of you as a person as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:06

You know what? You've just said something that I've experienced because uh the only thing I'm interested in now is Michael Vinson Showtime.com. If you go to the website, you'll see what I've done. My next show is on the September 19th. I've got the venue in place. Tickets are on sale now, and I'm improving my written narrative for the whole show, and I'm very excited because the written narrative is going to introduce something quite profound. And I've got one guest artist joining me, and it's gonna be a beautiful experience. So if you're not doing anything on the 19th of September, buy a ticket, come to London for the day, come see the show. All right, because you've just echoed it. It gives me tremendous joy to create and write and prepare something that people will pay money to come see, and they leave happy because they did. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:01

Well, you've kind of teased the next one, Michael, because you've you've said a couple of books throughout your list, and uh people won't be able to see this, but you have a huge library behind you, and you've referenced reading a lot. So I'm guessing this was gonna be one of the harder choices for you. So if you could take one book with you, uh, and that's the one book that you learn from for forever, what is the book you would take?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:27

My gut instincts tells me to take strong magic by Darwin Ortiz. Because while I'm on a desert island, I want to keep my mind occupied beyond the day-to-day means of survival. All right, but as the sun sets and I'm thinking about life, hoping for a boat to come and rescue me, I'm gonna be reading Darwin's book on strong magic. Why would I choose that book? This is a book not about tricks, but it's a book about exercising my creativity to become a great showman. Because the subtitle is called Creative Showmanship for the Close Up Magician. Let me just get that right. Here's my copy of Strong Magic. Yes, Strong Magic by Darwin Ortiz, Creative Showman's for the close-up magician. Right here. This book is over, it's just shy of 400 pages. And while I'm on a desert island reading this, I can stop at key moments and just ponder on some of Darwin's insights. Would you believe? In the prologue to the book, Darwin mentions a whole concept behind puzzle mentality. That essay was the inspiration for me to create a routine that's now in my stageco. There's another essay called Intellectual Belief versus Emotional Belief. That essay inspired me to craft my narrative in such a way that it gives audience for credit for intelligence, knowing full well that once I have their intelligence on my side, their emotions will have no defense for what is about to happen. Because they will know at the finish what I just thought happened cannot happen, but you did it. So I've now created a dichotomy between their intellect and their emotions, and it's doing this, and there's no peace in it, it's discobobulating. I like to use this phrase because it's kind of funny, but it makes me think of Hannibal Lecter. If Hannibal Lecter didn't enjoy eating people, but he was a great magician, I reckon he'd be someone that would tie us in knots psychologically. Because if you watch those films of Hopkins and pay attention to the words that Lecter speaks and how he speaks them, you can tell he's inside the mind of the people. Clary Starling, Inspector Potse. It's magnificent storytelling, but scary at the same time to think that a human being can read your mind the way that he does. Imagine if he was a real mentalist.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:38

Very unsettling. And it's also the first time that we've ever had Hannibal Lecter on here uh compared to a magician. So that's that's a nice, nice little intro just for your episode. Um, let's go to your item then. So if you were to take one item with you that is not inherently a magic prop, but would help you with your career, what would you take?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:01

I would choose a very thin book by Victor Frankel. It was called A Man's Search for Meaning. And I'm using the Desert Island scenario as the context as to why I would you have this book with me. If I've just survived a ship, a ship sinking, and I've washed up on shore on shore, and I've only got a few things with me, but this book is in is with me, it would help me to appreciate it would help me to appreciate that although I'm on a desert island, it doesn't mean that I can't function and survive. Because Viktor Frankl was a psychotherapist, he and his family were taken to Auschwitz during the Second World War. Victor Frankel lived to see his mother, his father, his wife, and his sister all die in the camps, in the ovens. And miraculously he survived. And when he was liberated, he wrote this book outlining the experiences of the fellow prisoners and the experiences of day-to-day life in a camp. And it's quite graphic. And I'll just quote you something that Frankel said. He said, no matter what happens to you in life, the one thing that can't be taken away from you is your ability to choose what the experience means to you. So if you're stranded on a desert island, first thing, you're alive. Second thing, how am I gonna keep warm? Third thing, I'm hungry. What can I eat? Did you ever see the film Castaway with Tom Hanks? Classic example. And you get to see it played out. And I think that book helped me to reframe what it meant to give up my career to look after my mom. Because yes, resentment set in, but I got over it very quickly. Why? Because Michael, don't be selfish. You're not in a concentration camp, you're not being nailed to a cross, you are a magician, and you will create yourself to become a carer. And when this is all over, you'll be able to live the rest of your life with no regrets. I actually said that to myself. It didn't mean I didn't have difficult days thereafter. It just meant that I could handle those difficult days like a stoic champion. That's it. I'm learning what it means to be a magician all over again. Three years since my mom died. And I'm still on that journey.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:01

Well, I think that's a great way to close out. Uh, and it's the first time someone snuck a book in the item position, which I really like as well. We love when people try and find little uh curve balls in it. So let's go back over your list. We had your care package of triumph. Number one was Lincoln Rings, two was knotted silks, three was Invisible Deck, then at four we had a smiling mule, five was coins through hands, six was slot machine, then we had seven was Marlowe's repeat card to pocket, eight was your card, my card, everybody's card, which will be on unlimited. Uh Banishment was um complete and utter laziness. Your book is Strong Magic by Darwin Ortiz, and your item is a man's search for meaning. What an amazing list, Michael. If people want to find out more about you, Michael, you mentioned about your show, uh, all of that good stuff. Where can they go to?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:53

www.michael Vincent Showtime.com. Come and see the show and experience who I am today. Okay. If you want my normal website, I'd much rather you come see the show now. Because I'm not promoting myself for the corporate arena anymore. I'm promoting my show. So that's where I would like people to go and bring a friend with you who is a layman. Tickets are selling. Don't delay.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:23

And do you still do lectures, Michael?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:26

Yes, I do. I did one for South London only a few weeks ago. It was great. We had a good time.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:34

So if you want Michael to lecture for your club, please get in contact with him. Uh, do Google book those tickets. Also, check his stuff on Unlimited. You know, that's gonna be there for generations and generations and generations. And hopefully, a hundred years down the line, someone will be putting their desert island list together, and it will be a list of the things that you taught them, uh, and we can keep this profession going on. That's fantastic. Thank you so much for your time, Michael. It was so lovely to finally have you here. I'm sure lots of people are gonna enjoy this, and uh, I've no doubt at all that people are gonna be going over and over and over this episode more than four times, I reckon.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:14

Thanks very much. Uh it's been great fun sharing those moments with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:18

Thank you, and of course, thank you all for listening. We're gonna be back next week with another episode. Like Michael said, do go check out his website, do go check out his shows as well, um, and do go check out his back catalogue. It really is phenomenal. Uh, I would genuinely say that what he's spoken about on here is a small percentage of things that I've heard him talk about uh in the past. He's one of the most knowledgeable people that we have, so make sure you go check all of that out. And of course, we'll be back next week with another episode. So until then, have a great week. Goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:53

Hi, Peter Nardi here, and I really hope you enjoyed that podcast. I just wanted to make you know that Alakazam have their own app. You can download it from the App Store or the Google Play Store. By downloading the app, it will make your shopping experience even slicker at Alakazam. You'll also get exclusive in app offers and in app live streams. So go download it now and we'll see you on the next podcast.