Steve Faulkner

Often, it feels like you have total control when performing magic. But what if everything depended on a split second? That’s where Steve Faulkner begins his desert island journey. He’s a British Close-Up Magic Champion, a working performer and the face behind Real Magic Reviews, which means he sees more new magic tricks than most of us could learn in a lifetime, then has to decide what’s actually worth doing for real people.

We put Steve on the desert island and build his essential set from the ground up, starting with a straight-up classic from Royal Road to Card Magic and moving through effects that have never stopped “storming” for him: Maxi Twist, Slidini Knotted Silks, Nate Leipzig’s cigar routine, linking rings that still fool even when the method is “known,” and billet work like Acidus Novus that delivers huge mentalism reactions when you’ve got the nerve to commit. We also get modern with Inject and the Legacy QR approach, not as a gadget flex but as a practical way to create layered miracles and leave spectators with a souvenir they’ll actually show people later.

Then we get honest about the thing Steve wants to bury: magic dogma. The rule-policing, the “no one would do that,” the opinions dressed up as laws. If you’ve ever avoided a trick you loved because someone said it was “wrong,” this conversation is your permission slip to go try it anyway.

Steve Faulkner’s Desert Island Tricks: 

Welcome package. Cards Across 

1. Maxi-Twist 
2. Slydini Knotted Silks 
3. Nate Leipzig Cigar Routine
4. Inject 
5. Linking Rings 
6. Acidus Novus 
7. Optix Pro 
8. Paper Balls Over The Head  

Banishment. Dogma in magic 

Book. Talk About Tricks 

Item. Kennedy Half Dollar 

Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk

Transcript

Mentalism Fear And The Big Moment

SPEAKER_04 0:00

And I had a gig where I had to sit in on a Microsoft pitch. So this company was pitching to Microsoft. Like, really, it wasn't like it they were pitching to Microsoft an idea. And they're a PR company in Soho Square in London. And I had to sit in there and pretend to be a member of the team. I didn't have to say anything, I just had to be there. And they'd say, Steve's going to do something at the end of the pitch, I had to get up and do a senator. And and it highlights to me that you're a lot of the time in mentalism, you're pinning an awful lot on a moment, a split second. And that to me can be so much more terrifying than doing a clip shift or a pass or a riffle part or something because I kind of feel in control of that. And I think, well, with that, it's like, am I going to get away with this? And you do. And the feeling you get when you do, as long as you present it in a certain way, the response is just as good as anything I've got from anything more modern, let's say. And you just shouldn't get away with it in your head sometimes. And when you do it, it's such a buzz because you just know the potential in it. And I think to mix that with more modern ways, that is, I think, where we can create real multi-layered miracles.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

We are

Meet Steve Faulkner The Reviewer

SPEAKER_02 1:33

in for a treat today because we have one of the biggest magic reviewer in the house. And the reason I think that that's particularly interesting is I think a magic reviewer is in a unique position where they are quite literally being sent hundreds, if not more, tricks every single week. And the amount of material they get to see is amazing. But more interestingly, is the diversity of the material that they receive, which I think is really interesting. And I wonder if, and any other magic reviewers out there, let us know. I wonder if a magic reviewer is more likely to change their set more often because they discover new things that the rest of us maybe won't. Because really, a reviewer's job is telling us the things that we haven't noticed or the things we may have missed out on. So I think it's going to be such an interesting chat. Today's guest won the British Close-Up Magic Championship and placed second in the Magic Circle Close-Up Magician of the Year, which I think is an incredible, incredible achievement. You will nearly definitely have seen one of his videos, if not several hundred, the same as I have, uh, with his real magic reviews on YouTube. He actually has uh several podcasts now as well. So he has the Steve Faulkner podcast, and he's also got the Magic Waffle podcast, which I absolutely love the name of. I think it's a great name uh for a podcast. And of course, he has his online training, which is online magic.co as well. And I've seen so many things about his online um platform and the fact that he breaks down all of these really intricate moves and turns it into something that is really approachable for everyone. I know this is going to be great, and I know lots of you are gonna be excited to hear today's guest. Of course, we have the wonderful Steve Faulkner. Hello, Steve. Hello, that was professional, wasn't it? That was very good. Yeah, well, we try. We're we're 200 episodes in, we've got it down. Amazing. Great, and very flattering. Thank you so much. Well, it's great to have you here, and it's true the the the way that you've built your following, I think, is amazing. What I really like about your style of reviewing and kind of looking at tricks is you're very open-minded. You come across like you're just a sponge for information. You don't tend to exclude different things, you just look at everything as it is, you say, Do you know what I really like that? This is the part that I like about it, this is maybe what I don't like about it, and then you just allow that to inform your journey going forward. And I think that's really refreshing.

SPEAKER_04 4:20

Yeah, I I I think it's the same with music, it's an age thing. Uh I I I used to be very specific with, you know, I wanted people to see me as a certain, you know, I do this magic or I didn't, you know, I like this music, and and now uh I think reviewing probably helps and seeing a lot of magic and understanding that I don't think you know if people say, Oh, you never review things badly. I don't think there's many bad magic tricks around. I think there are there are potentially dishonest, potentially dishonest marketing. Um, and of course there are bad magic tricks, but they don't tend to come to the surface as much. Uh so I I I just kind of love it all too much, really, because I have too many hobbies and interests, and I think everything's fun if you geek right out on it. So, yeah, it's a problem, but it's a lovely one to have.

How Reviews Keep Magic Alive

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Now, when it comes to your reviewing as well, how did it start? How did it come about?

SPEAKER_04 5:14

I think it was something I always wanted to do. I always was fascinated with doing video content. Uh, because to me it's a kind of it's almost a lazy way of performing in a good way. You know, I can do it anytime. I'm not very good at schedules, and and you know, I've had kids for now 20 years and I've got stepkids, so so you know, booking in loads of shows and things has never been something I've been able to do really, and I've had shared care with my kids for a long time. So so to be able to do a version of performing and connecting with people through video, whether it's live or not, it is really important to me, and I've I'm realising briefly how important it is. So I think that was part of it. It was loving magic and coming out of magic for a bit and really missing it, and knowing how easy it is to let practice and learning slide, and when practicalities get in the way. So if I review stuff, then I've got almost like a reason to keep learning and keep and learning is my favourite thing, you know. Learning anything is just it's my it's what I live for, really. So it it keeps me into things and it it allows me to find things I would sometimes often not find, and a bit like we said about you know that the open-mindedness, it's like I'll pick up some ink and go, Oh, I don't think I'm gonna like that very much, and it just ends up being something that I love. And actually, there's a few Alakazam things I've been playing with the last couple of weeks that have been just that. So that was part of the start of it. And I remember I said to Noel Corter, Oh, alright, I'm just gonna record something and put it out. And he gave me Bliss, was my first one, I think. I stood in front of the camera and did it, and with horror, I've realized recently there are still tricks that I was given to review in those early-ish days, not right back then, but maybe four years ago. And I interviewed Peter Nardi for my podcast the other day, and I said to him, So sorry. I've still got stuff after four years, and that and the reviews are going out like this week and next week for those things. But I yeah, Apparition is one of them, knocking dead is one of them, the Imagine Deck. I've just really reignited my joy for those sort of tricks that I thought I didn't like anymore, and I do, I love them, and I've just forgotten how good they are. Basically, I was like, you know, snobby about not using gimmick decks and stuff. So and that highlights why I do it. I think um it's uh it's it's become kind of an obsession. It costs me dearly where I should be sort of working on getting gigs and not sitting here reviewing stuff, but I wouldn't change it for the world, and it keeps me loving the thing that I I love. So that's that's it in a nutshell, I think.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

So when it comes to your list of tricks that your your ultimate list of tricks, how informed has your list been by your reviewing work? And it are these things that you you've always stuck to and you've just done them since your Covent Garden days, or are these things that have changed and adapted when you've discovered them through reviewing?

SPEAKER_04 8:19

I think it's almost some of them I found through reviewing, but it's almost the things that are still there in spite the amount I review. So of all the new things I discover, there are tricks that I find myself still thinking about 20 years later, going, right, I've got to learn that. And because I'm 52 now, I'm starting to think, right, I need to learn these things before I die. I'm not being it's a very stoic thing, I am gonna die one day, and I'd like to have a go at them. So most of them are those things, those things that actually in the last six months or year I've been putting a lot of time into. And they're also the tricks that I love to watch, and there aren't many really. I think I think I love the learning and doing of magic more than the watching of it. Saying that, there are magicians that I love to watch, but I'm not one of those people that it's magic, I'm gonna watch it, you know, just because it's magic. There, there are and and so it's that stuff that I love performing and watching, and and can watch till the cows come home, really.

Desert Island Rules And Cards Across

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Amazing. Well, I'm so excited to hear your list. Now, if this is your first time listening, the idea is we're about to maroon Steve on his very own desert island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks, one book, banish one item, and take one non-magic item he uses for magic. Now, don't forget we are in season three, which means because he's just got to his island, we've given him a welcome package. In that welcome package is a deck of cards. This is a normal, standard deck of cards. So I want to find out, Steve, if you performed one trick with a normal deck with your welcome package, what is that one trick?

SPEAKER_04 9:52

Well, you see, I think it it's I'm gonna say because I've been doing it recently and it's not ambitious card. It is cards across exactly as taught in the Royal Road to Car Magic. And I'm gonna say that because and this isn't just because I've I've got a course that I've nearly finished on the whole book of the Royal Road to Car Magic, and there's three three or four videos left to do, and it's taken me four or five years to make. And one of the last tricks I've just recorded was cards across. Lots of people do cards across, different versions of it, but the the version in the Royal Road, and I always thought it needed to be a stage thing, but it it's I found it such a great study piece. Uh, it's perfect for learning to palm if you're worried about that. You don't think you're gonna get away with it, and it can work with one person or an audience, and it's just a three cards across from the Royal Road. It's beautiful, and and it's been getting really strong responses.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

I think it's a really interesting trick, cards across as well, because it's one of those tricks that you can kind of get away with for younger people, older people, people that aren't used to cards because you're not using the cards as cards, you're using them as objects that uh are going from one area to another. So I'm presuming you've seen lots of different methods of cards across. What is it about that original that you think stands out for you?

SPEAKER_04 11:15

I think it's because it's the original. I think it's that there's a lot of stuff in the Royal Road that you go, oh right. I thought this was newer than that. Or it it, you know, there's slop shuffles in there pretty much, you know, things like in the version of Triumph for Topsy Turby cards. There's some stuff in there that is so fooling, and I love that because it does there is a kind of chosen card element, and and the Bill Malone one was the first one I saw, which was a similar thing. It's got this thing at the beginning where they cut the deck into three and they choose a pack, and that's the pack, so it's not ten cards, it's how many are in that pack, so there's a kind of freedom to it, and there's a thing you do before that that allows a force to occur, but it seems so free, and then you've got versatility in what one you use, but but it but it's it's got such a free it's a bit processy, and I think that's why people have cut it down, but I think that can add to it, and every time I've done it, there's a moment, and I didn't I hadn't really done cards across much, but there's a moment where they count them, they count them again, and they slow down because they realise that there's more cards than they just counted, and the look on their face, they just they cannot believe it. And every single time I've done it, bar none, somebody they've always said, and you didn't go anywhere near the cards. And every single time I've done it, and I've watched it on video, I quite clearly do in quite a cack-and-ed way because I'm quite nervous because I haven't worked it in yet, and they still think I'm so it's a beautiful lesson in in confidence as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Amazing. Well, that's a great one in with your welcome package. Let's go to your main list then. So, with your eight tricks, these are the tricks that you wouldn't live without. What would you put in your first position?

Maxi Twist And Closing Small

SPEAKER_04 13:02

Okay, well, it's it in in the same way. I'm gonna start with a card trick, and it's Roger Smith's maxi twist. Now, what happens in this is that you it's it's uh I'm gonna for lay people, you show four aces or four kings or whatever, and one at you you count them out in your hand, and one at a time they turn face down every time every time you show them. So you you start up with four face up cards, kings, aces, whatever. Every time you can you show them again, there's one face down, two face down, three face down, four face down, and then you get them back again. However, when you turn them face up, three of the that they they've all turned into different cards, basically, except for one, and you have to find three more, and one's face up in the deck, another one's face up in the deck, and one of the existing kings that are left gets split into two, basically. And anybody that knows my review channel knows how awful I am at verbally um describing tricks. However, uh Bill Malone, I first saw it on the Bill Malone DVDs, which I think are the best DVDs or downloads you can get. I just they're the whole career on those, the the first ones on the loose. I mean, all this stuff's good, but it's just amazing. And for quite a long time I was a Bill Malone uh tribute act, but I've been doing that since day one, and I've done it in shows, I've done it in parlour. It's the sort of trick people think, oh too many elms counts, and that's a for those of you who don't know, it's a way of sort of displaying the cards. And I've never done it, and it's not got between two and three verbal responses at the cards turning over, at the bringing the cards back, at the splitting the cards, and then showing that they're all gone. It's never not stormed, and it's and it's just a beautiful trick. There are loads of different versions, it's a version of twist in the aces, I suppose, but that one that I learned off the Bill Malone has never left my set in 30 years. It's it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

So this is kind of a lesson in finding those older effects and realizing that they still stand the test of time. These are these are the effects that you know people do day in, day out, and have done for years. And you know, I do a version of Reset by Caleb Wiles, um, and that moment when the cards change at the end, so much magic has happened, and they uh at that point, because there's a process of you know the cards turning face up or the cards turning face down, they think that that is the effect. So when you hit them again with that effect at the end, it comes out of nowhere and it absolutely knocks them for six.

SPEAKER_04 15:47

It it really does, and and we forget the the bit that always surprises me in Maxi Twist is basically I think it's okay. You you show a card and you split that card into two. A magician will know how to do that, it's how you think you'd do it. That's the bit that and because that's at the end, the display is like split. That's the least expected I always had when I was learning. I thought they're not gonna really, but that's the bit that gets the the killer response, and and I think it breaks a lot of rules, like there's a there's one display that's different to the other three, nobody cares. It proves that all that stuff is magicians worrying about and and uh you know I do it in my lectures and I always will, and it's yeah, it's a stunner, as is reset as well.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

And this is the kind of trick as well. Would you do this as an opening piece? Because it seems to me like it would be a lovely moment to you know the the audience just get to watch it, they just get to enjoy it, and you know, they don't have to necessarily partake in anything, they can just be amazed by it.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

It's a closer for me, and it again it breaks the rules for closers because it's not you know I I could I'll sometimes do bottle-free table and then that. And it's not the bottle through table is a stronger magic trick, you know, not not everybody's walking around saying, Can you do that thing with the aces again? But it creates an intimacy, it's like okay, let's do one more thing, and it and it's different to everything, and it makes I I like closing sometimes with a smaller trick than the one before the closer, you know, it kind of brings the focus in and it feels a bit special. It's almost like I've done the show now, I'll just show you this one more thing, you know. And and so I I will often do that, or I'll do it at the end of a card bit after doing a multiple ace production or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Amazing. Well, that's a great one in number one. So we've got Maxi Twist. Let's go to number two then. What is in your second position?

Slidini Silks And Repeatable Wonder

SPEAKER_04 17:38

Okay, so I'm gonna go Slidini knotted silks. I first saw Peter Wardell do what I saw Pete. I used to work a lot alongside Peter Wardell in the street in Covent, so I wasn't really a magician when I met him, I was more of a juggler. And I've seen him do the cups, and the cups isn't on my list, it's it's what I've done for more, and it's probably the trick I love the most, but it's kind of you know, we all know it's great, or or not, but it's a bit obvious. But the silks he he does a version of the silks that's incredibly funny, really funny, and doesn't lose the magic. And I uh but I also love seeing versions of it, uh Slidini's version, which isn't built on humour, it's kind of funny-ish, but it's it's beautiful, and I think it's Rob James I was the first person I think do it seriously, other than Slidini, you know, just as a more of a straight thing. And I think it's one of the most magical m moments. Uh uh I I didn't know how Pete did it for years, and I st I I watched it hundreds upon hundreds of times, I still had no idea. I just had no idea. And and and it's when those things come apart for the third time and they've pulled it, but it and it's kind of one of those things you think people should know about. I've had people in the navy, and and I did recently I did it and on stage, and I still get nervous about it because I've only just started performing it really, and I've done it on a couple of cruises and I'm terrified. And the guy was in the navy, or he'd been in the navy, I thought, well, I've got no chance here. And again, not a clue. You know, I I think it's it's it's scary, it's difficult, it's beautiful. Well, it's not difficult, it's beautiful. And you can look at it and go, the same thing happens three times. But it I I think the same thing happening three times is fine if something changes, and it doesn't have to be the trick that changed it, it does in this and there's different versions, but you can do more knots, they can do a knot. But the fact is there's more and more scrutiny on the knots every time you do it, and that's the thing that changes. It I I don't really it's like with coins across routine. People say, Well, they're flawed because they're the same thing three times. They are, but they're looking harder each time, so they're not, you know. The first one's like, all right, I could have got away with that, but this time don't take right, and so it's it's a bit like that, and I think it's just a a beautiful trick. And on stage again, spotlight on you're sitting with one person. I tend to sit with one person, nice music, and just I don't try and be funny with it or anything, and um, and afterwards I'm just going, Thank god that worked, because I because it's really scary. Because you go, Oh, I'm not gonna undo them. Thanks a lot, back on.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Yeah, it reminds me, it's kind of like a a peripheral moment, right? So it will when you're performing it, the idea is that these these knots are tied up, and then as you hand them to someone, they somehow are separated, but the performer isn't necessarily aware that they have separated until they look back and realize that they've been separated. So you have this like peripheral moment. It kind of reminds me of like an a more maybe adult version of the breakaway wand, you know, when you hand the wand to someone, it breaks, you don't realise until you look back, you get this sort of uh moment off to the side. And I think something that you said there, which is really interesting, which I think is so true, is the idea that you know normally you wouldn't repeat a trick, but I I actually think that you could repeat Slidini silks without changing the procedure each time, yeah, because I think the scrutiny would still be there each time. It's kind of like card on the box, but you're allowing them to stare at the box, you're almost saying, stare at the box, it's still gonna happen. And with Slidini silks, you know, they're gonna keep checking that, they're gonna pull it tighter each time. The process is still the same, but it's gonna feel even more impossible to them.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

Yeah, it it it's it's just there's something about it, and again, I I've got the Slidini box set uh USB thing that came out um a year ago or a couple of years ago, which is his lectures and loads of stuff of him teaching it, and you realize you can go as deep as you want with that trick, right? When he does it, you cannot see the moment, you can't see anything, you can

SPEAKER_02 22:00

watch his hands it's so it's a bit like watching cardini right do the do the multiplying balls where most people do it then we watch them because we're magicians we can kind of you know with with for me with card cardini you can't it they those things appear and it's the same with watching Slidini do do that you just go I know what he's doing but I can't see it because it's so beautifully choreographed so yeah it it's just lovely it's also the second time we've had it in a month I think because we had Michael Vincent on two episodes ago who also put it in his um his set as well so it's nice that people are checking it out I do believe that Penguin now also sell the Slidini knotted silks um so I think you can get it I'm not sure what the download is like on that I remember getting it when I was in my teens from Penguin as well they used to produce it so I don't know if they now are reproducing the same thing or if they've updated it or if it has Slidini's original handling in. I'm not 100% sure but I do know that you can study it that way as well should you want to so it's on the Bill Malone DVDs as is everything worth learning.

SPEAKER_04 23:06

His his um tutorial is the one you get either with the Murphy's one or the Penguin one of them

Wooden Cigars And Modern Audiences

SPEAKER_04 23:13

the the ones that you can buy that are quite cheap are fine and they're good practice ones the the nicest ones I think I've found are the Sean Farquhar ones um that they're really lovely and but I'd say you know to practice with but don't just pick up a handkerchief you know get get the proper ones whatever ones you get but they kind of get easier to handle the the more you spend so if yeah it's worth sort of investing a bit and if uh memory serves practice undoing knots before you start practicing the trick as well because it will go wrong and it will really annoy you um so yeah well I think that's a great one in it number two let's go to number three then what's in your third spot okay so it's uh light zig nape light zig cigar routine uh with the purse so I first saw I don't know where it was years ago it's a wooden it's what it is is you you it's a cigar routine but you show you tend to show them that they're wooden cigars well I've actually got one in my hand because I've always have at the moment I've always loved tricks with cigarettes and cigars and I know people say look I'm not smoking them I just think there's it's I think when I was a kid I must have seen some stuff and again we go back to Cardi news one of my favourite things to watch ever is that classic bit of footage and you know I I've I've had a battle with nicotine all my life and I'm totally off it now but I think there's when I do it I feel like there's a lot of stuff I could put into a routine about that about the the cigars keep coming back etc but I just think it looks beautiful and the then Chris Kenner did it he it's in his book but hit he did it in the Vanish Link masterclass um and I've always gone back to it so Steve Myers M Y E R S makes the most beautiful wooden cigars and they just feel lovely to do and and it's a it's a routine I've been really geeking out on. Like on online magic we had a live session last night and I just showed my work in progress um I love the thing of of getting it it starts where you get a lot of a wooden cigar out of a small tiny purse you know and I know people aren't going to see it I'm holding it up and that's a lovely moment and it can be made more and more magical it's funny it's weird you give them the cigar you say look they're wooden they don't fit in there and then you get another one out and then as you put put them in your pockets they keep reproducing a bit like a sponge bulls thing and then I've I've working on some stuff where you then get the the purse for him back out you've lost one and then the another cigar comes out so it's it's just endless what you can do but there's something nice about just working with lovely props doing some really solid vanishes and and it doesn't look like anything else and I love seeing it so yeah Chris Kenner's version um there is a version in another book that I was studying that I can't remember but there's just it's just one of those lovely things that and every time I've done it just people haven't seen anything like it and they always laugh when you get a big cigar out of a little silly purse.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

So cigars are kind of a I mean they are still common as in that they're still in our mainstream media so to speak like we all know what cigars are but maybe not as much as we did before how does performing with cigars on stage or close up however you perform it how does that go with a modern audience?

SPEAKER_04 26:47

Well and and this is what I think it depends what kind of performer you are I'm a very chatty performer. I've got a couple of routines to music so if if I use anything that's dated I just tell them you know I said oh I learned this out of a book that was written in 1937 I know nobody really smoked cigars and neither wouldn't anyway but it's cool in it you know I mean and do the routine it I really don't subscribe to that thing of you've got to do magic with objects that people they know you're a magician. You know people say it's not natural to do that and it's probably not the most natural thing to go to someone with cards and say pick one, put it back I'm gonna get out again. You know it's it's none of it's natural. So I think if we can yes I do sort of sometimes say with the cigars I just go you know trouble smoking for years I haven't smoked for years but you know every time I open something I think of and and or I'll say I'm gonna do a trick with cigars I know it's not appropriate but I learned this years ago and it took me ages so I'm gonna do it. You know something like that. If you're not that kind of performer and you're more of a silent performer I think you do have to think a little bit more about it. And cigars seem to be a because not as many people smoke them. Cigarettes is weird you know um but I quite like the idea of you know the cigar turning into a vape and then turning into a nicotine pouch and then going back to that because I've I've had huge addiction problems with those as well. So there's a story in there for me as well. But I just think it's a lovely prop to play with and it's old fashioned and I think contrary to popular belief dated is different to old fashioned right there's a charm in some old fashioned magic there's no charm in dated magic and I think that's the difference. We can and there's definitely no charm in smoking by the way but people know I'm not smoking them right and and when you get props out like you know this kind of wouldn't we it's it's lovely. So that's it yeah I've just I just really love the routine always have and I always go back to it.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

I think that's a really interesting thought as well the idea of kind of dated and retro almost you know when when we think about things that are coming back full circle um thankfully flares aren't there yet but um you know we've got records which are back now you know in full force cassettes uh I saw the other day that um people are getting things on cassette tapes again which I think is is crazy but I love it um so I do think that you know there is a nostalgia and and I think magic lends itself to nostalgia a little bit we we can bring it back without it feeling old fashioned and dated you know you can you can create something new with something that is relatable to to a certain generation of people yeah I agree I agree and it's just beauty and aesthetics right in the end sometimes it doesn't matter what the prop is it looks beautiful and magical I always took think about shooter Gower's thimbles you know before Schuhe Gow did his thimbles people like yeah thimble magic and then he did that and everybody went that's incredible it didn't matter that with thimbles he's not sewing with them right he's showing you things on his fingers to change colour and disappear and come back and you have no idea how he's doing it and that's the point so sorry so I think that um yeah I think we could we could just be a bit more easy on ourselves and if we like something just do it I I also love the thought that there's nearly definitely going to be someone listening to this does not know what a thimble is. I guarantee someone's listening right now.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Yeah well well Google shoot a goa O G A W A isn't it I think uh thimble routine a thimble being something you stick on your finger if you sew by hand um which I still believe AI can't do so or or a home version of it um but yeah so but anybody I anybody watch that or his wand routine or his link and ring routine and tell me that's not magical and if you're telling me that you've got no right calling yourself a magician I'm only joking.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

I I also love that you know again people in the future listening to this at one point it was a normal prop to have in a magic set I remember getting the Paul Daniel set and you had a set of thimbles that were different colours and had certain attributes to them which allowed you to multiply them and make them appear disappear change colour that was a normal standard prop at one point yeah yeah it was really funny and and to me I still love a thimble routine Alan Hudson I don't know if he still does it but it's quite recent relatively recently he would do it and and yes it's there's something about it yeah I'm I'm old fashioned you know not just because I'm old well I think that's a great one in at number three let's go to number four then what would you put in your fourth position?

Inject And The Legacy QR Killers

SPEAKER_04 31:34

So I'm gonna mix it up a bit I I think I'm gonna put a bit of tech in there and I'm gonna talk about inject now I'm for for non-magicians I'm gonna be a bit vague here but a lot of us will know what inject is and it's something I wouldn't say it's an app because it's not and it's something that allows us to create miracles but the reason I'm putting it in there is because I've been really deep diving into Inject so I will say that that main people use it for and this isn't an app and and it those people know what I mean by that that that are in the no I'm being very careful here. But the the effect is I someone on their phone will Google something at its most simple I'll tell them what they've googled right and it's happened on their phone and that's what I thought inject was because I've been studying it um because of Peter uh Nortinger or Newtinger's written a PDF on it it does so much more than we think it does and that's what switches people off from it. They just find it too complicated. But knowing what it does and knowing it does the things that I didn't it it's so versatile and they do call it the Swiss Army knife of whatever and it genuinely is and there's stuff and I'm going I have no idea it did that it it doesn't have to involve anything happening on a a spectator's phone it doesn't have to involve Google it doesn't have to it can be a bridge between things which is allowed and I think the work that Greg Rostami's done over the years with Inject and Realist and the stuff that link those two and then the recent one Legacy I mean it really is quite phenomenal and and I and I'm not taking that away I don't mean that means it's better than you know people like Mark Kirsten and the I think this is something now that I'm starting to take really seriously I went through the thing of I don't do this I'm a classicist you know I like my cigars and my Lincoln ring and and actually I love this stuff because I do find it difficult. I find it difficult to use properly and with comfort and with confidence it's doesn't do the trick for me it's not self-working and you start digging into that and you go this is just an endless amount of work and there are flaws in it and there are things we have to consider and there is possibility of of errors happening I would say 99% of the time it's through not being as familiar as you should be with the workings of it and I would also say it's okay unless you're closing a stage show with it if it doesn't work and you go oh nobody's got signal all right let's do something else and that's the thing that scared me what if they haven't got signal what and it's it's like oh let's do something else because it's and that's why I think it's made for close up as well really for me. It's kind of like we can we can do that.

SPEAKER_02 34:35

And I've been loving it and I've been really getting over the the fear of it yeah I think it's a great great tool it's something that I've used for a good number of years now the routine I have for it is borrow a phone make a prediction put it down someone else gets their phone and Googles their most favourite song of all time and shows everyone else and then when the person turns over their prediction I've opened it up on YouTube and I'm playing the video of the the song so it's very snappy but doesn't require me to have any tech out at all. Everything's borrowed from the spectators it's snappy it never ever fails to get a WTF moment. People just freak out over it and what I think is really interesting with what you said there is you didn't really understand what it was and I've found that because I show this routine to so many magicians and they say how is that being done and I say oh it's inject and they say but I've got inject yeah but you didn't have your phone out. No I don't need my phone out there's I I think the issue is when something is so open-ended like inject we find it difficult to work out what we need to use it for I think sometimes things can be so freeing that it you know the the the old thing think about space and think about how vast space is you get lost right that's what inject is right there's so much to do well what what do you do with it I I don't understand how this can conceivably do this thing. So I think that's a really interesting way of looking at it you know you have to find the thing that you want it to do and then start working with it.

SPEAKER_04 36:27

Yeah yeah or learn it for the joy of it and and you know I mean that's my thing I just really enjoy and then I go oh right it could do that and then you can be creative and start understanding the thing and and I think that's it and it takes a bit of work and you can customize things then right but you're absolutely right yeah it it is open ended it's a bit like me going oh what shall I review today if I start thinking about it I'm screwed because I can't I'm not I haven't got the brain with my ADHD to be able to prioritize so I just have to pick something up just go for it. What is the so if if you had to perform one routine with Inject what is the routine that you would do with it at the moment I'm using it with legacy all right so legacy and I I will some people accuse me sometimes of being of having affiliate links and you know things that I've I'd never ever do that and if I ever I did it once and I told people uh so I'm using it with legacy so legacy is his latest thing where you get a QR code on a business your business card. So he prints them all out you get the a thousand business cards or two thousand with it I did a review on it recently and you it can whatever happens with inject instead of you showing it on your phone or doing whatever you say here's my business card you'll notice there's a QR code on it they scan the QR code and that will reveal either the thing they've typed on their phone and Googled or the thing they've looked at in real list or the thing they've written on their the post-it note or the thing and that's where and and the brilliant thing is that QR code that you've given them on that business card will forever link to that thing it will be locked so they walk away with a story of something to show people they get people to QR scan it and I mean it that's really exciting to me. You can have a deck of cards or they can name any card and you go scan the code and that card will come up with you holding it on your website with your details and I've always really felt very uncomfortable promoting myself too much at gigs. Yeah I don't really like just giving out a business card for no reason and also don't like vanishing it and reproducing it behind your you know I but that seems to be a valid reason for using the business card I've also done a drawing dupe on the on it beforehand so when they take it away they've got two stories to tell people they've got the drawing dupe that's written on it and they've got the barcode and as an art just as an added thing it happens to be on my business card which they take away so that for me it it ticks a lot of boxes.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

I don't have to do that thing of pop it in their card and go and if you've got any of you know it's got like I've just shown you something amazing oh look it's on my business card isn't that handy so yeah so that's what I'm doing with it at the moment I think uh even in terms of like having a show so having the the code up on a screen and everyone in the audience can scan it and the fact that it's locked into that audience means that you can customize it for that audience for that show and it's never going to change it's always going to be there which rarely happens with this kind of trick. Normally like for example one of the tricks that I uh really really love is hacker but yeah that changes so as soon as I you know move away if one of the tables that I've just been to go back to it a little bit later on they're gonna see a different card has appeared on on the yeah on the thing whereas I love that this just locks in I think that's so smart.

SPEAKER_04 39:49

Yep and you can do a thing as well which um which means it won't if they do it prematurely it will just show a blank page until you decide it does the thing. So if you've got it on stage I mean you'd have it covered maybe but if you didn't every time then nothing happens and then you go alright do it now and it so I think that's really really clever as well. Oh that's amazing and if you are interested in that Steve Faulkner's uh affiliate link is in the show notes just below us so you can uh get a kickback so let's move on to number five then what is in your fifth position uh I'm gonna

Linking Rings When They Know

SPEAKER_04 40:25

go for uh Lincoln rings I think link and rings whether they are I I'd say I'm talking probably about the Lincoln rings rather than the um the Lincoln finger rings uh that people do the Joe Paul you know that I suppose that is part of it I mean that's a stunner um but I just love the the visual aspect of a of a good beautiful Lincoln ring routine um I did have one that was like seven or ten rings which I love practicing and doing but then realised it was a bit much I mean you know all the shapes and all that it's kind of cool and now I've gone down to a four-ring routine for for a couple of years I did a Whithayden four ring routine which is funny and now I've gone for very straight I've started putting bits of kind of almost mime into it um and I love doing it and I but I do think even if people know how it's done it it a lot of times doesn't even ruin it or or because they still can't see if you're doing all the good stuff that you can do with them they go yeah but I know there's a thing but how did you get that one? And it almost cancels it out and I know that because someone that was making this student documentary on me knew how it was done and I showed them a bit and they said yeah I know it's done but how did you it they still didn't know how I was getting one at a time off because doing this shoot a gower thing you know Matt Garrett's got some beautiful stuff with Ninja and Ninja Plus which I think is great. He beat me in the magic circle so I didn't think it was great for a couple of years with that but um and I think it's endlessly fun to practice and versatile and I don't think there's many people that see it that are lay people that go I reckon it might have a you know it it just looks lovely and it doesn't matter it's a beautiful piece of aestheticness is probably isn't a word and I love working on it as well.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

It's endless this is uh one again that we spoke to Michael Vincent about and we said it's it's a really interesting thing because the general public if we're entirely honest for the most part know roughly what's going on with the Lincoln Rings but um and we see that as a weakness as performers whereas we should be seeing that as a strength because if we know where the audience are looking then it's easy for us to divert their attention so if we think they know how it works or if they think they know how it works then we simply play to that advantage and you know we make them think that maybe it's something's going on and we're using a completely different method.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

So I do think that there's a really interesting approach when it comes to these older styles of tricks where we can use the knowledge of the audience against them almost yeah absolutely Luis Damatos had some great I went and spent a week out in in studio 33 it is 33 isn't it um always get the number wrong recently just to sort of get away and practice and have a bit of a retreat and he has a three ring routine I think and his big thing is you you you you hand them out right that's all the that's a m big part of it they look at every single one of them things and then he does that and I think that's very important or you can go the route of which I tend to do at the moment is just do it and if they think then that's done fine. And and I think that can if you're using the the right technique it can almost become irrelevant And and in the way that when I saw Axel Hecklau, and I suppose he's responsible for getting me back into it because his silent Linkin Ring thing that I downloaded that I um reviewed, I've spent hours and hours on it, and that reinvigorated my love for it. And he did some moves from that at the session convention, and every single person in that audience knew the method. And when he did that one move he does that, people have that drop, which I close with, everybody just went and then we know the method, right? It didn't make a difference, didn't make a difference at all. And because we knew the method, the fact that we still were kind of fooled was like ha, and that's I think if it's well done, when you're halfway through it, they just forget about it anyway. They're like they're just watching something that looks like real magic, arguably, if it's done in a certain way, but there's no right or wrong, but I just think it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

I remember the first time hearing a silent link, and the the first time that happened, and you know, knowing how the trick works and thinking, how on earth have you just made that so silent? It was amazing.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

Yeah, it's the one move, and it and I my routine finishes with it, and it is terrifying. And those if you don't know the Lincoln Rings, because a lot of people won't, you know, have a Google of Axel Axel uh Heclow Lincoln Rings, and there's a you basically hold them in one hand, two in one hand, and one of them drops through the other one. But if you get it slightly wrong, it just kind of goes and and that's you the last bit of your routine, and it's happened a few times, like everything's been lovely, and you just go, oh you know, it's even the music stopped, it's that thing of and you just got and you have to kind of grab it and sometimes expose it and gnause it up. Uh, but it's it's a scary thing to do, but it's a it's a beautiful thing to do. But you're right, yeah. That that when you see it done well, it's lovely.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

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SPEAKER_02 47:31

Amazing. Well, let's go to number six then. What would you put in your sixth spot?

Acidus Novus And Billet Courage

SPEAKER_04 47:36

Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna change it around because I was gonna do multiplying balls in the cone ball, but I'll probably about them, I'll probably say the same thing that I kind of said about the others. So I had a couple of things. I'm gonna I'm gonna put you must have had this, Acidus. And I'm gonna put Acidus. And and it's it's a method of gaining information that has been written down, for those that didn't know. Those that don't know. And that kind of way of getting that information, whether it's tearing paper or doing that, is to me terrifying. I I did Richard Bush's center tear for years, and I still do it. And I had a gig where I had to sit in on a Microsoft pitch. So this company was pitching to Microsoft. Like, really, it wasn't like it they were pitching to Microsoft an idea, and they're a PR company in Soho Square in London, and I had to sit in there and pretend to be a member of the team. I didn't have to say anything, I just had to be there, and they'd say Steve's gonna do something at the end of the pitch. I had to get up and do a senator, and the whole thing, I'm not saying they would have whether it was a got on the gig or not, but and it highlights to me that you're a lot of the time in mentalism, you're pinning an awful lot on a moment, a split second, and that to me can be so much more terrifying than doing a clip shift or a pass or a ripple part or something because I kind of feel in control of that, and I think, well, with that, it's like, am I gonna get away with this? And you do, and the feeling you get when you do, as long as you present it in a certain way, the response is just as good as anything I've got from anything more modern, let's say, for those people that know what I'm talking about, and you just shouldn't get away with it in your head sometimes, and acidus for the reasons we will know, you think even more well, surely they're just gonna, and and when you do it, it's such a buzz because you just know the potential in it, and I think to mix that with more modern ways is if you're doing something using something like Inject, but then using that alongside with it, that is, I think, where we can create real multi-layered miracles, and it's great, read it's a great way to practice our cold reading, it's a great way to practice our technique because we know we've got that thing at the end.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Yeah, I think that's uh another great choice. I'm big fan of Acidus Novus, I think it's a brilliant trick. We actually saw Alexander Marsh recently in his show, yeah, and his opening effect uses his version of Acidus Novus uh in uh this brilliantly constructed uh routine where he manages to get two pieces of information um during the opening routine, and it is absolutely wonderful. It was so bold, it's in front of an entire, you know, two, three hundred seat theatre. And if you watch him do it on um Blue Peter, he does it on Blue Peter on screen in front of everyone, you see the moment it happens, but when you watch the presenters' faces, they are absolutely clueless that anything's happened. It's brilliant, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:53

Because it's so bold, isn't it? It's amazing, and and it that's still something I want to you can do a whole stage piece, right, you using that, and that's something I because I get so nervous about mentalism. I perform uh the end book test and and quite often Mark Shandel's daddy book test um and fourth dimensional telepathy, and uh that's a similar thing. You just but when it works, it's lovely. And I I love the idea of doing a thousand seater with a with doing acid. Great, isn't it? That's why we love it.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

Yeah, is it's so good. There's some great work with billets out there. I do think it's one of the things that we need to we we need to remember that there's some great tech out there, there's some great new things coming out, but having a database and a library of billet work in your head, you know, going back to Bob Cassidy's books, and you know, uh Alexander Marsh now has got some great work on it, Mark Paul's got some wonderful work on it. Um, Christopher Carter's got some brilliant work on billets. This is gorgeous, gorgeous work on it. So, you know, go just go out there and get this knowledge of just using bits of paper and a pen because it's some of the best stuff that you'll ever do.

SPEAKER_04 52:10

I agree. And those people going, oh, why would they write it down? Just stop being silly.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

Yeah, it's it's magician thinking, very much magician thinking. Well, this brings us to your tail end. So we've had a great mix of different things so far. We've had some kind of classics all the way up to some kind of more obscure pieces, and now we've got two more to go. So, what would you put in your seventh spot?

Optics Pro And The Fear Factor

SPEAKER_04 52:34

I'm gonna put uh Tobias Dostel's well, anything from Tobias Dostel, basically, but but I've fallen on Optics, Optics Pro. Well, not necessarily specifically, because I think there's pros and cons to both of them, so to speak. But that trick, I I finally got comfortable with it one night, and since then I keep forgetting to practice it, and now I've lost it a little bit. Those tricks for those of you what happens is you borrow someone's phone and you say, Right, we're gonna film it. Take my phone, you're gonna film me do this because you're not you're not gonna want to forget this. You take the phone, you make it vanish, they go, That's amazing, it's vanished, or you've eaten it, or there's loads of ways of vanishing their phone, and you say, Right, I'll make it come back, and you go, right, it's back, and they go, No, it isn't. Where is it? And you go, you're holding it. And the phone that they've been filming you on all the time has been that kind of makes sense, doesn't it? Perfect. It is good. You're being very generous with perfect, but I'll take that. It is a terrifying trick to do because of it's a bit like the first time you do a melon load in the cups and balls or something. You go, I'm not gonna get away. It's absolutely terrifying. It's not that differ it's not this difficult, and with with optics pro, there's a lot of different ways of doing it. With the original optics, I think there are there are things about it that are actually more versatile, but there's yeah, there's pros and cons. But with Optics Pro you can do either version, but there is not there aren't many tricks like that where when you say to them, You've just been filming me on your phone, it's one of those tricks that doesn't get wow, that's amazing. They're kind of a bit scared and and upset, but in a really good way, it and then they say that's amazing. It's it's just an incredible piece, and and I think it's the only reason everybody doesn't do it is because of that fear factor, and that's kind of why I love it. It's a it's a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_02 54:33

It it kind of reminds me of like bottle through table, you know, the the the fear of that you're you're you're effectively doing the same thing but with a mobile phone, you know, but back back to back to from. Um but my my logic with that effect is remembering the first time I saw the trailer, and that that moment from watching a trailer, bearing in mind it wasn't even performed on me, my brain exploded at that moment. Uh and and my my logic is if that fooled me from the trailer without any editing, no cutting, I literally saw it as it would be verbatim. Why would that not then fool an audience? And that's kind of the way I try and think about this kind of effect. Of course it's gonna fool an audience. You've just like you said, you've just got to be confident with it, you've got to own that moment, you've got to own those beats and that that structure of the trick. And you know, trust that Tobias Dustall has been out there, worked these, which it's quite clear that he has, because anything that anyone sees of his, no one is ever going to be able to do it as good as him because it's Tobias Dustall. Um, so you know, I think if you're scared about it, if you're worried about it, remember the first time you saw that trailer and how it made you feel because clearly it works.

SPEAKER_04 55:57

Yeah, and I've screwed it up loads of times, and nobody died, right? The worst thing that happens is you the vanish part's pretty easy. So what's what has happened is and what happened last time I tried it because I was kind of rusty, is that I made the phone vanish, but they knew before that they went, Oh, this is my phone. They knew that they're holding their phone because I'd kind of naused up. But they kind of went, but how did you make that you know? So it's it's a way less a trick, but I just do the Jedi Mime thing of pretending it's a brilliant trick and open nail, they kind of think they don't get it. Like, yeah, look what I just did. You're holding your phone that you knew you had since the moment I ended it to you. Isn't that clever that I just vanished something? What was that that I vanished?

SPEAKER_02 56:45

But I guess that that's that's the interesting thing, right? Because if that's what they think the trick was, then the fact that they're holding their phone and they're filming with it is inconsequential, really, to the effect. They they're still gonna be like, oh wow, you made that phone disappear.

SPEAKER_04 56:59

They don't necessarily know that that was gonna be a kicker ending to to the effect, of course, and and this is true actually, it's funny you mentioned it, and if that doesn't work, I just put a bottle through the table because that's not gonna and that's the thing, right? Finish with something strong, they're gonna remember the bottle through the table, not the weird trick you did with a mobile phone.

SPEAKER_02 57:23

Great, all right. Let's go to number eight, then we've got one more. What would you put in your final position?

Paper Balls With Kindness

SPEAKER_04 57:29

So I'm gonna put my final position uh paper balls over the head, or the flight of the paper balls by Tony Slidini. Uh I think it is a trick that's been done in a very basic way by street performers and other people for many years, and there's nothing wrong with that. In the and what happens is that you get what's like Tony Slidini would have someone come out from the audience, sit them on a chair, put a load of napkins, paper napkins on their lap, and you know, talk about what's going to happen. I'm gonna put it in my hand, it's gonna vanish. And as he says vanish, the audience would see the paperball fly over the head of the spectator, and the spectator would see nothing. And the joke is the spectator can't see what's going on, everybody else can see that the paperballs are just flying over the back of the spectator and landing on the floor or whatever. And a lot of people say, Yeah, but you're taking your Mickey out of the spectator, and it's a bit cruel. And actually, this is one of the few times that can be right. If you don't read the spectator properly, if you don't read the room properly, they do feel silly, they feel stupid, so you've got to play it right. But you can, and you can do it in a way, and a part of it's choosing the right person, it's saying certain things that that that really assure them that this happens every time. Do not feel silly, it just shows that we don't know everything, it shows the beauty of magic, and you know that feeling when you don't know something and other people do, it can feel really horrible. But magic's about enjoying that, it's about that being okay, you know, that it's okay not to know everything, and we're gonna celebrate that feeling of vulnerability and childlike you know, childishness, and and and just all that stuff can make them then enjoy it, and it there's so much depth to it. Again, if you study it and you study the Slidini, the book's quite hardgoing. The download stuff that was released in France a couple of years ago is the best way to learn it, I think, in my opinion. And I saw Armando when I the first time I saw it done in a way that wasn't one, two, three, I'm gonna chuck a thing behind your back, was Armando Luchero did it. I've never seen it on film. Uh I did a job 22 years ago in Portugal. I didn't know who mando Luchero was really, and he was doing his menagerie coin uh matrix that is just the most beautiful piece of magic. And when he was out on the street, he was doing the flight of the paper balls, but he was doing in this kind of it was funny, but it was graceful and subtle and beautiful, and there was a lot of mime in it. He wasn't talking as a and he would do things like you know, pull a sleeve up and you know the the the ball would fly back, and it had and it it stopped being I'm the joke's on you, it's I'm doing a really cool, beautiful thing that people can see the skill of, and it just happens to be quite funny that they can see it and you can't. So I I think it's a stunning piece of magic. I still haven't quite broken it. I did it at the Magic Castle every day, got caught quite a few times, um, because I want to do it in that way that isn't it's kind of the more difficult way of not it. They then it never really comes out of their sight line, but that ball just gets pinged away. You know, it's that stuff, but um, but I'm getting there, and I think it's a it's a beautiful piece of magic if done correctly.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Yeah, I think it's a wonderful effect. It's one of those ones that again, you know, we talk about just uh a a knowledge of methods and a knowledge of routines. You can do this anywhere, anyplace, you don't have to have any props with you, you can just do it. Um, but I would uh a little shout out to Dave Loosley, who's got a brilliant version of this with a great ending. So it you actually want to get caught with Dave's, which is what I love. So you can you can do the normal paper balls over the head, and then he's got this extra moment at the end where if they do look back, they do see it, and you do get caught, it doesn't matter, and then it kind of takes away the idea that they're being suckered in because at the very end there's a magical moment for the person on stage and for the audience as well, so it has this lovely full circle moment.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:49

It is great, and I think a lot of people are scared of doing it, and I think we can build those things into it. Dave's done it beautifully, incidentally, he is the next podcast release on my podcast, which will be out today or tomorrow. Uh those it'll be out by the time people listen to this. And he's brilliant, Dave is just brilliant, and you're right, he's built those things into it, his book's amazing, and I would say, even if you screw it up and people notice it, the way I get over it is almost like I turned it into almost like a Spongebob routine, but also do that thing of saying, right, we're gonna try out a little experiment to see see who we're working with here. So then if they catch you, you go, right, yeah, you're the right person, and then it becomes the the trick to go into the next trick. So I think that those people who are nervous about it, and I spoke to a lot of people like ah, we can build those things into a lot of our work, and you'll know that a lot of mentalists do with psychological things if they don't go, they just become the the the journey to where you're going, right? So uh that's a big, a nice safety net you've got, and Dave's provided an amazing one there as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:51

Well, I think it's a great way to close out a very eclectic list, I would say. We've got a lovely mix of old classics, a couple of more obscure ones like the the cigar routine, uh, then we've got some really modern ones like inject. Uh so let's quickly read it back out. So your welcome package was cards across. Then we have Maxi Twist, Slidini Knotted Silks, which is brilliant. Uh Nate Leipzig's cigar routine, then we have Inject, Lincoln Rings, Acidus Novus, Optics Pro, another nice modern one there, um, and paperballs over the head. That that is gonna be a great one for interesting pictures, I think, as well. You know, you've got the cigar there, you're gonna have your Lincoln Rings there, you're gonna have a phone disappearing, you've got paper balls flying all over the place. Uh, I think it's yeah, it's gonna be a great show if we were to see all of them at the same time. Yeah, well, you might do one day. Well, we've given you eight tricks, but we're only gonna give you one each of

Bury Magic Dogma For Good

SPEAKER_02 1:03:52

these. So I want you to imagine that you're gonna dig a big sandy hole and we're gonna throw something inside never to be seen again. What would you banish on your island?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:03

It's people that put too much too many logical rules onto magic and criticise it that lay down the law, you know, this is what you've got to do. You shouldn't do that, or you should do that. I don't know how to really I think it's dog the thing I want to banish is dogma in magic, you know. It it a kind of because and my lecture was about this in Blackpool, but it I can tell I see it again and again and again, and it drives me nuts. People see a prop or they'll see a trick, and they'll and I've been guilty of this, and they'll say that's ridiculous, no one would do that, or blah blah blah blah blah. And I've seen it disproved again and again and again with everything. There are ways to present any kind of magic that are entertaining, beautiful, enjoyable, regardless of that thing on that it should or shouldn't work on paper. And I see it again, I see nobody's gonna buy that. You know, I've read it in books, nobody's gonna buy that move, nobody and well they do because they're the same people that say, you know, when people say you're the best magician they've ever seen, they don't mean it. Well, of course they do. Why would they say it? Why would they just out of nowhere say because in in their reality at that moment doesn't mean you are the best magician they've ever seen, but in that in that moment they've been motivated to say that, and people don't, and um and if you've been doing this a while, you know that things are true or not, and and it you can't let it get you, you can't let it uh for me. I can't let myself believe I'm the best magician because they said it, and I don't think it's true on an objective level. But I've learnt too that those things will often be said after something that should or shouldn't work, like you know, multiple LD counts and this and that, the a cigar or something that I've seen again and again say you should or you shouldn't do, and whether it's mini lingual. Or thimbles or whatever it is. And the fact of the matter is, if you find joy in something, you mentioned it earlier, the first time you saw it, then that is what can be communicated. You know, people aren't idiots. They know it's not magic anyway, and that's why magic works. If they thought it was magic, as Gustav Kuhn says in his book, they wouldn't be impressed. If they believed in magic, they'd they'd just be seeing something they believed in. They don't, but they're seeing something that that defies logic, and that is where the entertainment is. For me, I'm not saying it all the time, and I'm not saying there aren't people that you know momentalism there. Obviously, there's there's a line there where people sometimes believe you are doing certain things. But it it the logic doesn't come into it. It can look beautiful and not make any sense. A bit of scripting can be nonsensical, but entertaining. A a magic trick on paper can make no sense but just work beautifully. And the the key is to keep an open mind, never judge people for what they love and keep you know, keep sacred what you love and don't let people bully you into not liking something because it's naff or stupid. If you like it, like it and be be proud of it. And I've I've been on the receiving end of that and I've given up routines for years because one person not irrespected said a thing in a book once. But when I've taken it out, finally it's stormed and people have loved it because they can see my joy in it as well. So it I think it's naysayers, it's people that are always looking for the the kind of criticism in things. Um, and I want them to be in a hole as long as they're not in that line. I don't want them to get hurt, just as a kind of slight punishment, just so they can learn the lesson.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:47

We'll we'll give them a little tube so they can breathe. It's fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:50

Um they can they can have their head coming up, and I can I can be performing rope tricks and linking rings and cigar tricks for them for hours and pimbles.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:59

We've turned this into less a banishment, more a torture chamber. This is great. This is yeah. Um do you know what? I think you're absolutely right with with your banishment though. Um, and it's something that you there are lot lots of different ways of thinking about this, and and it's a it's a big subject, really. But I think that one of the most important things that you have to do as a performer, as a magician, however you want to you know put yourself out there, however you want to talk about yourself, is to realise that you are you and you are not someone else, and you can admire any magician you want, but the second that magician says that you shouldn't do something or you shouldn't be the way that you want to be, that is the moment I believe that you should maybe take a step back from what they're saying because I don't think that it's for anyone else to say what you should be doing and what you shouldn't be doing. This is your path, this is your journey, this is your life. You should be discovering these things yourself. Work, find out what works for you, find out what doesn't work for you, but don't be someone else, um, and don't you know don't put yourself beside someone and you know put them on a pedestal so much so that you won't do what you want to do, you know, exactly like you just said there. Do do what you want to do, discover what you enjoy, and you know, find the fun in magic because that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:29

Yeah, I agree, and I will just validate that because that I don't want people to think I'm saying don't take advice and don't learn from being that's the difference. I think what I'm saying is take it with a pinch of salt. You know, when I teach people, I always say to them, I'm not right, this is this is just an idea to play with, it might improve that, but but it but the minute it becomes dogma and judgmental, that can be dangerous, I think. So so yeah, you're right, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

I think it's a really interesting thing as well, being on this side of the magic world as well, where you know you work for a shop and you're you're dealing with the secret side of magic. I think it's really interesting as well that some people you can tell when someone works and when they're out in the real world gigging things and when they're potentially not, because I think that certain magicians find problems in things that when you're a performer and you're out there, you know that those things are not a problem. But if you're not a performer, you think that those are a problem, and you feel like just saying, just go out, go out, perform it, see yourself, and understand that what you what you think is a problem is not a problem at all.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:44

You're gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:45

Yeah, I agree, I agree. I've seen it again and again.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:48

You're absolutely right, but I think that's a great banishment. Now, you've got two items

One Book Plus The Perfect Coin

SPEAKER_02 1:10:53

left. We've got one book, so you're only allowed to take one book with you. What is the book you would take to your island?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:59

Well, what's been the most because the one I was gonna say, I think surely everybody's done that, right? And I don't want to kind of be boring. So has everybody done talk about tricks?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:10

No, no, I think maybe once or twice, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:14

Oh, okay. So talk about tricks, very practical reason. Uh Joshua J's collection of of the talk about tricks from um from magic. Magic and then genie or just matter anyway. Um I it's got everything in it, right? So there are tricks with everything, you know. It's it's such a compendium of different techniques and different tricks with though. If you're on a desert island, you're gonna be able to do a variety of things. I was gonna say the Forte books because I just love sitting with them because it's really hard and challenging. Um, but the variety of the talk about tricks, it's it's such a beautiful set. Um, and it's not like I've got it out all the time, but if I'm researching something, that's one of the places I go is talk about tricks, Joshua J. It's it's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:05

Now we're at an interesting situation here, which we've not had. We're on season three now. Everyone that listens to this regularly knows what I would normally do because this isn't just one book, this is two books. The problem is I happen to know that they come in a box. So they do come in a box. That what do people listening are gonna have to tell me what I have to do here?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:28

You can only buy one, you can only buy it as that one set though, right? You can't buy them separately.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:33

There's no way around it then. You've got to take both books.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

Yeah, yeah, because you could you can't and and actually there would be one book, but they you wouldn't be able to open it because it would be too thick. So it's one book cut in half.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:45

Okay, well, first time we've had that, everyone. We we've we've had people skirt the rules before. We've never had someone just pick a box set that has come like that. Um, so yeah, you you've well done. You've got two books. Well done. That's a good job. Now, if you were to take an item that is not inherently used for magic, but you're gonna use it for magic, what would your item be?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:10

Oh man, I can't get away with saying a coin, can I? Because realistically, I'm here with a coin in my hand. I mean, I've always got a coin in my hand, so it's gonna have to be, because I I've always fertile him with one.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:24

Right. If you were to take a coin then, uh, to make it a bit more interesting, I'm gonna give you some restrictions. So, the first restriction I'm gonna have is what kind of coin are you gonna take? Because I know that the style of coin is quite important to people who do coin magic. So tell me about the coin that you would take first off.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:42

So I'm enjoying uh I would say a 64 Kennedy half dollar. Uh, because that's always they were the 90 cent silver ones, and some people might correct me on that, and that's what I learnt with. I had a nice set of of 64 they they were um they're more in in I think uh expensive now, but what I tend to play with is a half dollar. I think uh I think a dollar coin could look nicer, but I just love the feel of that in your hands.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:12

Okay, so we've got the Kennedy half dollar going with you, but if I gave you one trick that you would perform with your Kennedy half dollar, and I know that this is going to be a little bit difficult, so maybe I will give you a couple more Kennedy half dollars, just to be nice. Alright. So if you were to perform one trick with your Kennedy half dollars, what would the one coin trick be?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:34

I think I think uh it would be if I could colour one in with a pen a pen or something, it would be you know, I love playing with um I I I absolutely adore Al Schneider's coins across, which is a beautiful thing. That and I'm cheating because I'm saying two things, is um oh gosh, the what is he called? Ponto the Smith's spell ban routine. Uh so I'm on my own, so I could just use the same coin, right? Don't matter, does it? Or a rock whatever you want, two of the same coin, yeah. Because there's moves in there that I still practice now, I've since seen that, and one of them is this muscle pass appearance where you just sort of wave your hand across and it appears in your hand. So a spell bad routine for those that don't know, just where you show a coin and a different colour, it turns into a different colour coin and then turns back to the the silver coin and a copper coin or whatever it is. Um, and I can just sit there for hours and hours and hours just playing with that uh that routine because there's so many different parts to it, and it's really difficult and satisfying.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

Amazing. Well, that's gonna go with you then. You've got your Kennedy half dollar. So that is a great list. We'll go from the very beginning. Your welcome package was cards across. You had Maxi Twist, Sladini Lotted Silks, we had Nate Leipzig's cigar routine, inject link in rings, acidus novus, optics pro paper balls over the head, your banishment is dogma in magic, your book is talk about tricks, uh, books, cheetah, and then we've got the item which is the Kennedy half dollar. I think that's a great, great list.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:21

Thank you. Good.

Where To Follow Steve And More]

SPEAKER_02 1:16:23

If people want to find out more about you, Steve, if one of people want to find out about your uh everything, your podcasts, your membership, um, and your lectures, of course, where are they gonna go to?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:36

Well, it's difficult. What I'd like people to do is because it's sort of scattered around, there's online magic.co, which is the membership. If you go to the bottom of that page, there's different courses I've got that are one-off things. Um, but if you go to my newsletter and I know that everybody spams everybody, I'm not gonna spam you. I don't do that thing of writing a thing every day. Um, people do it very well, I don't. So if you just go stevefaulkner.com forward slash newsletter, that I'll just let you know when I drop podcasts, which is the Steve Faulkner Podcast and the Waffle Podcast, but you'll find them on the Steve Faulkner Podcast wherever you get them. Um and Instagram at Steve Faulkner at RealMagic Review, so at Steve Faulkner and at mealagic magic review at Instagram and RealMagic Review is the page. But if you go on to that and sign up for the newsletter every time I not even every time I forget, but when the podcast drops, I'll be able to let you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:31

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time, Steve. Oh, thank you so much. I've loved it. Thank you. And thank you all for listening. I think there's gonna be an awful lot of things there for us all to go and check out. You know, uh, like Steve said, if you've not seen Lincoln Rings, do go check that out. Check out Acidus Novus, it's a brilliant, brilliant thing to have in your little library of techniques, and of course, we're gonna be back next week with another episode. So until then, have a great week, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:03

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