Pete Heat

A billionaire builds a Star Wars-shaped house in Portugal, hires a team to stage a “mind-reading” AI, and throws a party so convincing that guests keep asking how to buy the fake technology even after the reveal. That’s where we start with magician and consultant Pete Heat, whose career spans TV, theatre, brand campaigns, and immersive events where belief is the real special effect.

We get into the unglamorous but career-changing truth behind getting booked: people need to see you working. Pete explains why solid performance video and a real showreel beat polished photos, how his early YouTube street magic clip led to TV opportunities, and what it takes to capture magic on camera without killing the method or the moment. If you care about social media magic, television magic, or high-end corporate events, this part is pure strategy.

Then we run his “desert island” list of eight hard-hitting pieces: an ambitious card routine that builds to a full deck vanish, a lightning-fast pocket index, a ring to sealed envelope inside a zipped wallet, loops for haunted deck and PK Touches, coin under watch, a sealed drink can transformation, the Unbelievelope for stage predictions, Acidus Novus for bulletproof peeks, and a closer with Double Cross plus the tiny handling choices that make it feel impossible. Along the way, Pete banishes one habit he thinks is quietly wrecking modern magic: overconfidence about angles and flashing.

If you like practical magic theory, behind-the-scenes consulting stories, and worker-tested routines that get real reactions, you’ll want this one. Subscribe, share it with a magician friend, and leave us a review with the single strongest trick you think every performer should learn.

Pete’s Desert Island Tricks: 

Welcome pack: Ambitious Card

1. Cheater Index 
2. Item to Sealed Envelope 
3. Loops 
4. Coin Unique (with a normal 50p) 
5. Too Hot to Handle 
6. Unbelievalope 
7. Acidus Novus 
8. Double Cross 

Banishment. Overconfidence in angles 

Book. Art of Astonishment 

Item. Magnets 

Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk

Transcript

Cold Open Billionaire AI Party

SPEAKER_01 0:00

He d he uh he got hired to create this absolutely insane and immersive event for a billionaire in Portugal. They they built this incredible looking house that um it was sort of shaped like the Millennium Falcon from Star Wars, obviously. And um they wanted to throw a party at this house, but they wanted it to make it like the most insane party that anyone had ever been to. And so they came up with this with Ian Charkey and a few other people, they came up with this concept where they were going to pretend that their house had this sort of inbuilt AI, like a sort of um vamped up Alexa type thing that could that could basically read your mind. Um so, like for example, and we had all these demonstrations where you go into a room and you'd think of a film and it would start playing on the TV, on Netflix, or whatever. Um, and we we had so he hit sohkey flew out a team of magicians to make that happen, right? So obviously we're using mentalism methods and all sorts of stuff, but or you think of a song and it starts playing on the stereo, and then there was this whole crazy storyline where it started going wrong, and like these uh armed security drones started killing guests, and like um, and it's all this absolutely mad. Uh so people there just really believed it, thought it was real, they thought people were dying. It was absolutely this dark storyline.

Meet Pete Heat And His Credits

SPEAKER_04 1:41

I'm super excited for today's guest because today's guest is someone who Jenny specifically went to a performance of and she absolutely loved his performance, so much so that we have just announced something which I'm gonna tell you a little bit later on. Let me tell you a little bit about today's guest. Now, the easiest way to tell you a bit about this person's uh career is just to list off some of the things that they've done. O M G is all I can say. So, he taught Jude Lore, playing Dumbledore in Fantastic Beast, how to make cards appear from thin air. He's devised auditions that were used on Britain's Got Talent by some of the finalists. He's co-starred in Around the World in 80 Tricks with Magical Bones. He was part of the creative team behind Tricked with Ben Hanlin, which we spoke about on Ben Hanlin's episode, so go back and check that out. He consulted on two Joan Malone commercials. He's worked on magic for Samsung, Windows, and Heineken campaigns. He's worked on various theatre shows, including Obsession, starring Jude Law at the Barbican, and the White Carnation at the Germain Street Theatre. His clients include everyone from Google to Facebook, HSBC, and Coots, Adidas Vogue, you get the idea. Currently he is starring at the Magician's Table in London. And the big announcement that I mentioned earlier is we have booked him for the Alakazam Convention 2027. Not just as a lecturer, but also a performer in the evening show, which I absolutely cannot wait for. If that doesn't wet your appetite for today's episode, I do not know what will. Today's guest is the wonderful Pete Heat. Hello, Pete.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Hello, well, thanks for that intro. That was very nice. Uh yeah, hey, good to meet you.

SPEAKER_04 3:45

Well, the thing is, it's not much of an intro, it's just listing the incredible things that you've done. What an incredible career that you've had.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah, I I I think it has been really varied, actually. And I think that that does that's it's quite useful because it sets you up for, you know, you you like I have I've done tricks in the middle of a slum in Mumbai, and then I've done things that yeah, literally for Anna Winter from Vogue on this luxury train. You know, you've you've you've experienced every kind of reaction and every kind of uh sort of challenge and difficulty. Uh so yeah, it's gotta it's gotta help, I guess. It's gonna make you a more rounded performer. So yeah, it's been fun.

SPEAKER_04 4:23

Well,

Why Great Video Gets You Hired

SPEAKER_04 4:24

how do you even get into all of this stuff? How did you get into the TV work? Uh and uh how did you find yourself in a slum somewhere doing magic for people?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah, so I I think um I I try and give you there's there's no speci there's no one easy answer to it. I think a lot of things have combined to lead to these jobs, but I think one thing that I did quite early on, which was really useful, was um I learned quite a lot about cameras and I made a street magic video uh in like 2007, maybe when YouTube was still a pretty new thing. And I put it out there, and I think even now when everyone has video cameras on their phones that are way higher quality than even professional cameras were back then, and people don't loads of magicians don't have video footage or good video footage of themselves like on their website or on online. And I think it is the single most uh useful thing that you can do if you want to um if you want to sort of scale up your your career. But if you wanted to say do television or now social media or or say adverts or anything like that, people need to be able to see you or even get booked for high-end events. People need to be able to see you in action, how you interact with people and what what they're actually getting. So I think it's really it's quite hard to capture good magic, which is why no one has it, you know. But why a lot of it, but because the angles have to be right, and the moment you get it from the right angle, you might not get a good reaction on that take. You know, there's a lot of boxes to tick, but it's worth persisting, I think, in getting a good video because the the moment I put this video on YouTube, it did quite well by by the standards of the day. I mean, it was a few hundred thousand views rather than the millions that you get for things nowadays. But what happened was I got a TV production company in Ireland messaging me going, Have we just seen your video? I wasn't even a professional magician at this point, you know. They said, We've seen your video, can we get you on this TV show? It was called Magic Party, it was with like Dynamo and like all these people were like who were who was also kind of on the way up back there. And um, so I got flown out to Ireland to do this TV show when I hadn't even got a business card yet, you know. Um and I think if you if you don't put yourself out there into the world, you know, people can't discover you, right? Like they're not gonna come and just sort of go door to door looking for people. You know, you need to put yourself out there. So I think uh a big part of I mean that's a massive oversimplification, but I think a big part of why I um started doing quite well quite early on is just because people could see that I existed.

SPEAKER_04 6:47

I I think that's a really interesting thought, and it it was only when you were saying it that genuinely I think you're absolutely right. We we've all got the pictures, we've all got those shots, and the amount of times we talk about talking to a photographer at a wedding to try and find those pictures to put them online, but no one really has video. There's not many working professionals that even have a show reel.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah, exactly. And even when and often when you have a show reel, which uh often it's just sort of reaction shots, um, or maybe just one shot of you looking suave and adjusting your cufflinks or whatever, and then a load of people reacting, which which to be fair, that will be a lot better than nothing because it will say this is what your guests will be like, they'll be get they'll be losing their minds and laughing. That that's you know, it's a good sales tool, but it's very rare for anyone to have an actual um like a trick, you know, like actually something happening where you can at home you can watch it and go and be fooled yourself and go, I've got no idea how that worked. That was amazing. So yeah, it's I think it's really I mean, obviously, there are loads of people that do have that like, but but the majority, even of like working professionals, don't really, and I think it's it's really worth doing.

Immersive Events And The Magician’s Table

SPEAKER_04 7:54

And now you find yourself in the magician's table, which you've just moved venue. Uh I think we've spoken to quite a few people now who are at the magician's table. Uh, and I went last year, I absolutely loved it. I told you before we started recording, I think it was an absolutely brilliant show. If you're in the UK, please go and see it. I know there are new venues now open in America as well, so go and see those as well. So, how did you transition into this kind of immersive event? Because you've been with it for quite a long time now.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Yeah, I have. Um I well actually the the I first met Sharkey. So Ian Sharky is the kind of writer of the show, and he is was one of Darren Brown's team, so he'd help write the um the TV stuff that Darren used to do. And so he put this show together. And I actually met him on a different job. He he got hired to create this absolutely insane and immersive event for a billionaire in Portugal. So so it was these really rich couple in uh in Portugal that they're both billionaires, and they they build these, they they built this incredible looking house that um it was sort of shaped like the Millennium Falcon from Star Wars, obviously. Um, and um they wanted to throw a party at this house, but they wanted it to make it like the most insane party that anyone had ever been to. And so they came up with this uh with Ian Charkey and a few other people, they came up with this concept where they were gonna pretend that their house had this sort of inbuilt AI, like a sort of um vamped up Alexa type thing that could that could basically read your mind, right? This was this concept of this house. Uh so he was using supposedly cutting-edge AI to um, so like for example, and we had all these demonstrations where you go into a room and you'd think of a film and it would start playing on the TV on Netflix or whatever. Um and we we had so he so Sharky flew out a team of magicians to make that happen, right? So obviously we're using mentalism methods and all sorts of stuff, but or you think of a song and it starts playing on the stereo, and then there was this whole crazy storyline where it started going wrong, and like these uh armed security drones started killing guests, and like um, and it's absolutely mad. Uh so people there just really believed it, thought it was real, they thought people were dying. It's absolutely this dark storyline, very, very Darren Brown, you know, very um, and um there was this big reveal at the end, like, oh no, it's not real. But but it had been so convincing that even after the reveal, people were going, yeah, yeah, but how do I buy the AI for my house? And we're going, no, no, it's not it's not real. But no, well, they read my mind earlier, so yeah, they're going, yeah. I know the deaths weren't real, but how do I get my house to like read my mind? Like, we couldn't convince them that they were it hadn't happened anyway. Um, this is a bit of a diversion, but I met Sharky working for that. Um, I was one of the uh I helped come up with some of the stuff and and do some of these little experiments that supposedly proved the house could do this stuff, and um, we we all got on really well. There was a little team of people like me, Harry DeCruz, uh Martin Rowland, Mark Kirstein, um, who else? There's a few others, James Went, Catherine Mills. Um, I probably missed someone, some apologies if that was you. Um, and we uh yeah, uh I'm not sure how I uh I was even on his radar for that. I think it was just a recommendation from someone who had worked with me before. And anyway, because this team was worked so well together and we had such a good time out there making this mad thing happen, I think I was on the short list sort of automatically when the magician's table came around. And um and it is a good little team, you know. We we we do all get on. There's not like this sort of negative backstage atmosphere where everyone hates each other. It really genuinely is a fun place to work. And yeah, I agree actually. I think if you are a magician in the UK and you haven't been, I think it is a good I I I do wholeheartedly recommend it. I think it's a good thing to come to.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

That sounds absolutely crazy. What an incredible thing to have been able to do.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yeah, it's it's the uh one of if not the weirdest gigs I've ever done. And it was the type of thing where I came back and I was telling people about it, and they're just looking at you like this this isn't real. Like, no, no, you didn't. Like, because it sounded so absolutely insane. Like, you know, if you go, what have what have you been up to this weekend? And they're like, Oh, I went to the watch the football. I went to Portugal and convinced I convinced the princess of Portugal, she was one of the guests, that a house was trying to kill her. You know, like that's not that's not um that doesn't sound legit, that doesn't sound like something that happens.

SPEAKER_04 12:22

Um, yeah, I think well, if there isn't a better lead-in to a list of magic tricks, I don't know what is. Now, because you've had such an eclectic career, and like you mentioned the slums, you've just mentioned that, you're at the magician's table, you've done things for theatre in the West End as well. When it comes to putting a list together, how do you even begin going about picking out some of the things that you've either worked on or created or other people's stuff over the years?

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Well, yeah, I mean my list uh hopefully it won't be boring, but my list is actually a fairly um considering I've done some weird stuff, it's a fairly conservative list, I think, because you find you find that certain tricks just always deliver and they're just solid. I mean, there's no reason like why every worker in England does Omnideck, ring flight, but you know, that's like because you're there, you're there to, you know, you've kind of got this responsibility to give them the best magical experience you can, and you could do you could do some sort of creative but ultimately underwhelming thing, or you could just knock them bed with something that you know will work. So um so I mean I haven't hopefully been that pedestrian, but equally I I've looked at stuff where if I could only do certain tricks, things that I know for a fact, I can adapt to any situation and I can get good mileage out of. So um I've tried to yeah, I've tried to whittle it down just based on that, really, rather than on what's the rather than on what's the most fantastical method ever, say I I I've gone with what what would I actually use. That's that's what I tried to do.

The Ambitious Card With A Deck Vanish

SPEAKER_04 14:02

Amazing. Well, let's get into it then. So if this is your first time listening, the idea is we're about to maroon Pete on his very, I'm guessing, strange magical island with killer drones. And he's allowed to take eight tricks with him, banish one item, take one book, one non-magic item, and of course, it's season three, which means he has a welcome package. In that welcome package is a deck of cards. So, Pete, if you did one trick with your ordinary deck of cards in your welcome pack, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Yes, well, that's for me, that's uh it's an easy one, and it's probably the same as almost every other magician. Like I I I absolutely love the ambitious card as a routine. Uh, I have my like we all have, I've got my own sort of version of it, which ends with uh the entire deck vanishing. Um and I just love it, and it's the trick I've done definitely without a doubt, more than any other trick. And it's the trick that pays my bills, I think. You know, like if given given a couple of minutes with somebody, there is no doubt that that's that's the trick I do because it's it's got that rare thing in magic where it's it repeats, you know, it's got it's got but but each phase builds, and normally you don't obviously repeat a trick because that's the whole that's the that's that's one of the rules, but you can repeat it. And they do they really do want to see it again, and each time they see it, you're fooling them in a different way. So psychologically it's really good, like each method cancels out the others, and then you've just got that, but at least the way I do it, you've got the a really nice phase where it's in your mouth, which everyone does, and I love it. Uh, and then there's a real like a kicker, which is where the whole deck suddenly just disappears, and and uh I don't really think the I don't think you can get a stronger card trick, really. Um so yes, I'm I'm doing the ambitious card.

SPEAKER_04 15:44

Amazing. Now you've mentioned two phases there. You've mentioned that you you have it go to your mouth, and then you end with the deck vanishing. When you say the deck vanishing, vanishing, vanishing, or are we omni-deck vanishing? What are the other stages?

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Alright, so I'll I'll give you I'll talk you through the whole thing. Um, so I start by doing so I I love the classic force, right? So so I start by doing a sort of uh a classic force, and the way I do it, I turn my head away while I'm doing it, so I'm not even looking at them. Uh and the moment they grab the card, I go, Are you sure you want the three of hearts or do you want to check? You know, so you've got that instantly before before there's any even any procedure, you you've hit them with something uh like instantly, because I think um, especially if you've just wandered over to a group at some corporate event, there can often be a bit too much procedure before anything happens. So I like so straight away that that they're they're still they've hardly even pulled it out of the back yet, and you've already told them what the card is. And they're kind of expecting probably that that's gonna be the end of the trick as you tell them the card, but you've done you've got rid of that within within a second. So I start, yeah, start with the classic force um and uh and guess the card. Then I do a little tilt phase, you know, the tilt, obviously Marlowe's move. Um uh then I get them to cut off part of the pack and put it in. So so so each time so the first time the tilt, although I hopefully do it well, the tilt is the type of thing where they think I didn't really see that go in from a great angle, it went in from the back. So so then the second phase it builds because they're putting it in themselves, so they think, okay, that time it's definitely in there, and it's not. Um then I do um basically I just uh depending on how long I want to drag this out for, maybe a couple of top changes and putting it in again, it happens again. But yeah, then it then it's the the mouth phase that we if you don't know it, but basically they they push the card into the back uh and they look up and it's sticking out of your mouth, which I think that could be the end of the routine because the reactions for that are so strong. And but the the reactions to that are laughter more than more than um more than the kind of uh silent amazement like they're more it's just laughter. It's like ah you tricked us again, you bastards. Sorry, you uh you nasty you naughty man. Um and um but then I think that's the perfect lead-in to I think the deck vanish it is so strong that so I so I do a version that relies on the depth illusion. I've ditched the whole pack while they're reacting to the mouth thing, uh except for uh uh the the top card, so a kind of random cover card. Then I take the card out of my mouth. I don't know if this is making sense. I take the card out of my mouth, I pretend to place it in the pack when actually I'm doing the depth illusion, so you're only holding two cards, compress them into one, and seemingly and so it looks like they really think they see the whole pack just suddenly compress from this full pack into just one card, and um and then that's the end while they're reacting to that. I ditched the extra card as well, so I'm literally only holding one. And um I think I know that uh in theory, if you make something disappear, you're supposed to bring it back again. But I love uh because it brings it full circle. But I love that kind of just leaving it gone because they go, Well, where is it? Where are the cards? And you just want, they've disappeared. Um I like leaving it in this kind of um leaving them wanting more because uh then you can go into another trick because they do really do want to see more.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

So yeah, that's that's how I do it. Amazing. Well, that's a great one in your welcome pack. Let's go to your main list then. So, what is in your first position, Pete?

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Okay, something um that has been in my kind of regular rotation for a few years now is uh an index, uh um a pocket index, right? Of it's uh a full pack. I I use one called the cheetah index, like as in either the animal, the cheetah, um, which isn't I think made by Verne. And basically what the what you can do with an index is it someone names any card from a pack and you instantly pull it out of your trouser pocket. Um now you can use that in more of a covert way, like you palm it out and then add it to the pack, and you've got a duplicate of the one they named, which can be very useful, obviously. Or but I've because this this index, now that I've practiced with it, is so quick, I actually use it as a trick in itself. Because I think let's say you say three-air clubs, and I within less than a second just pull that card out of my pocket. I think I think well, even if you have got a whole pack in your pocket, I don't understand how how you could find it so quickly. So I think it's I think it's magical enough um to just use it on its own. And the reason I like it so much is you can use it in any situation. So in walk around, you can again as a really, really quick opener, like name a card, and you pull it out of your pocket. Um the the you can't get much quicker than that, really. Or I use it on stage um as my opener. Um, someone shouts out a card, I put it out of my pocket. Um, I use it, I use it on the magician's table in my table set uh for my opener. So someone names a card, I pull it out, someone else names a card, I pull that out of my pocket, and then more things happen with uh with another card that gets named. Um so I I think it's this sort of uh multi-purpose uh I think I can use it in Parlour, stage, close-up. And the fact that it requires there's a bit of a steep learning curve to learning how to do it use an index properly means that hardly anyone does it. Like I don't think I don't think I've ever gigged with anyone who uses an index, like ever, or at least that that I that I know of. And so it's quite good because what you don't although some tricks like uh like we discussed, like omnidex A are great tricks, what I don't want is to do a trick and someone will go, Oh yeah, we saw that last week, um, because it sort of makes you feel a lot less magical and special and more like oh, so that must be a thing that you can buy. Um so yeah, pocket index and specifically the cheetah index is the one I use.

SPEAKER_04 21:35

Amazing. Well, what's really interesting is we've not had like you just mentioned, we've not had indexes spoken about a lot on the podcast, and yet there seems to be quite a contention with magicians about which index to go for, and obviously there have been products bought out over the past, let's say, three, four years, which have really caused a ripple amongst performers. What is it about the cheater index? Did did you look at other indexes? What was it about that one that you can recommend?

SPEAKER_01 22:07

So I saw a trailer for it where the guy basically just people were naming cards all around it, and he was just pulling out uh each card they named uh like back to back instantly, and um and he goes, name any four of a kind. I go, I don't know, the four tens. He just goes, pulls out the four the four tens. It's uh and I thought obviously this is the creator, so he's quick with it. But I thought, you know, like obviously this is a really speedy index. Um the way this one works, so that so the one at least the version I have is it's split between your two front trouser pockets, right? And so that each half is quite slim because it's of course two pockets. There are limitations to that, which is um if you start pulling, if if one person's card comes from one pocket and then another person's card comes from another pocket, they might think, well, has he just got 52 pockets, right? Um so there are there are limitations, but what it means is it's it's extra quick because you're only having to search through half the pack, and also it's um it's extra slim, so it looks like you couldn't possibly have a whole pack in there because you don't. Um now the they they then put out another one called the 52 cheetah, which is all of the the whole pack in one pocket. I'm yet to I'm gonna get one just to see if just you know to see if it is better. But um I quite like and also because I've just worked this now, I've got the muscle memory down. I think if it I think if you're gonna be rummaging in your pocket for even a second, it gives something away. It like so it's like okay, obviously you had to look for that, and therefore I've got a bit of a theory on what's going on. Um whereas yeah, the teacher is is so quick, honestly. And the way I um taught myself how to use it, I just had an Alexa in my lounge, and I was just getting Alexa pick a card, and it was um it would name a random card and I'd pull it out. And um and I made a little video of myself doing this with a string of cards in a row and watched it back until I thought, yeah, that looks that looks like I'm pulling out the only card that's in there. So yeah, um that's how I went, that's how I chose that one.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

Amazing. Well, I think that's a great one in at number one. Let's go to number two then. What's in your second spot?

Impossible Locations That Hit Hard

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Okay, what have I got? Um now I think about the strongest trick you can do in close-up is something to envelope and wallet. So whether it's a card, mercury followed to an envelope and wallet, or um I do what I do a lot of gigs is a ring. So a borrowed ring, and so I take the ring off them, and seemingly in the same while you're still taking the ring off them, I hand them my wallet. Uh, what seems like exactly the same moment. Just seems like you're just swapping objects. Like they give you the ring, you give them the wallet, um, the ring disappears, uh, and inside the zip compartment in the wallet is an envelope that's sealed, and inside the sealed envelope is their ring or other small object. And I think just there's something about that that it blows people away because even if people are aware of sleight of hand, which obviously a lot of people are, the idea that you could not only have opened the wallet, opened the zip, take it, you know, taken out of the envelope, open the envelope, put it in, put it like licked the envelope, sealed it up, put it, you know, there's just there's at least like about six or seven phases you would need to go through, supposedly, to get to make that happen. So it just seems completely impossible. And that's a trick I've done to but I I don't know, like all of the you know, you mentioned in my intro, like doing stuff for like Spielberg and whatever. That's the trick that I've done for people like that, uh, or every all of these people, and it consistently blows them away. I think it's just it seems like it couldn't be possible. So it's um a wallet with an envelope in it. Um, there's obviously quite a few of these, and I'll I'll give you the one I've used the most, and I kind of wish I had a better option. The one I've used the most is the Jerry O'Connell wallet with uh with a Boncelope inside it, Dave Bonstell's envelopes. But the downside of that is it's about 12 foot long and looks like uh it looks like no wallet that anyone has ever owned since sort of 1955. Um annoyingly, it is by far the quickest load still, as far as uh to my you know, in my experience. Um so it's and I think the speed is again what makes that so impossible. Like that they feel like they were they you were handing them the wallet almost almost before they gave you the ring. Like that's the speed is so is so quick. Um so I I do I've used that a lot, and I also use the um, and this is a much more natural looking wallet. I use Gerard Kearney's um wallet, which is I can't remember what it's called. It's really yeah, it's got a company called Secret Tannery, and um it is a very natural, it looks like a very modern everyday wallet that you would get, you know, that you might actually have on you. The downside is that there's a very slightly slower load um because it involves uh a little slide, a little plastic slide that you have to sort of um get out of the way before you remove the wallet from your pocket. Now, uh yeah, I thought I use both interchangeably depending on what mood I'm in. Um yeah, so that's um that's what I'm bringing.

SPEAKER_04 27:03

That's a great one. Now, what I think is really interesting is that at the very start of that you mentioned, you know, the the impossibility of taking a wallet and then undoing the zip and then taking an envelope and then sealing it. And that's what I think is really interesting about that kind of effect is that you don't actually have to give any narrative to what's going on, it's inherently obvious the impossibility of that moment. You don't have to say anything or do anything at all. And sometimes I think that you know that there's power in that, there's power in that moment where you undo the wallet and they say no. You undo the zip and they say no, even more. And then you take out the wallet and then no, you know, that there's that that those levels of building with that kind of routine. Um, so I think that's a great one in at number two. Let's go to number three, then, Pete. What's in your third position?

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Okay, um, number three uh is a pack of loops. Um and um so uh well the I use them, I use them all the time for everything, but um so uh the haunted deck, which which is where someone picks a card, they put it you put it back in the pack, and you can put the whole pack on the floor, or even if the lighting is okay in the venue, you can balance it on their outstretched hands and the card, the pack starts to cut itself and their card comes flying out of the pack. Now, that is an extremely strong trick. It's a weird one where I wouldn't do it as the first trick because I think if you do it straight away before you've established yourself as a skilled uh person, they can't there's only one possible answer. It's like, oh, there's got to be some sort of strings or something. Whereas I think once they're already on board and they're going, Well, this guy can read minds, he can make things display, uh and then and then the and then not only the hatler card starts moving by itself, um, I think it's this real escalation in like, oh my god, there's this actual magic now. Um so um yeah, so uh a pack of loops. Also, so that the haunted deck is what um is what I use it for a lot. Also, um haunted glasses if someone had some sunglasses on them or or others, other glasses. Um, and it has the added bonus as well if you are at a party or a gig. Um, if you if you put someone's glasses on the floor and sort of back away slightly and everyone's gathered around looking down the floor, it's a type of trick that can be seen from across the room if their glasses suddenly flip over and that advertises you to everyone, so it means there's less awkward introductions of like interrupting people and having to explain that you're a magician. You know, I think the more things where you create a bit of a scene, a bit of a stir um early on. It's a great, a great thing to do if you're performing at uh you know at an event because you want people to know or to know that you're doing mad stuff before you even get over to them. Um also one more thing that I do with them a lot, which I think is one of the best tricks um you can do really, um, is PK Touches. I think it's Leo Mana's version, um, the Israeli guy Leo Manor, um, which is where if it's not, then sorry, I've just attributed your trick to Leo Mana, somebody else. But I think it's his uh PK Touches, which is where basically you get two people standing um near each other, and you tap one of them on the shoulder and the other person feels it, and then you tap and then you sort of gently stroke one of them on the nose and the other person thinks you touch their nose when everyone else swears blind. No, he didn't touch you. I should stress I should stress they've got their eyes, they've got their eyes closed, that's why they that's why they think you touch them. Um so um yeah, so basically there's there's a version of PK Touches that uses a loop as a little convincer, and that works uh at a party if you're doing close-up mingling as a sort of a bigger, a bigger trick towards the end, but also on stage or in parlor, it just feels like a completely a completely different type of trick. And again, it's one of those tricks where people go, Oh yeah, I understand like card tricks you've you know you've practiced for years or whatever, but this is something different, you know. Then they genuinely start to feel like, are you uh is this is this yeah, like is this actual magic suddenly? Like what's going on? Uh so yeah, uh pack of loops, please.

SPEAKER_04 31:07

Amazing. Well, what I think is really interesting about loops is I still think it's a slightly underutilised prop. I think there's a lot of fear behind it. Certainly from magicians that I've spoken to who own loops or have an old pack of loops from you know years ago, and they say, you know, I picked them up, I used them, they broke, I never used them again. And I think what's uh interesting there is I think there's a specific way to use loops, and there's a way to condition them. And I always reference there was an illusionist uh set of DVDs years ago. There were three DVDs. I think it was Daniel Garcia, Justin Miller, and someone else who I cannot remember, so I do uh do apologise, the third person, and they showed you how to use loops, how to condition loops, so the things that you do before your performance to make them work, and then they showed you loads of different haunted decks and different effects that you can use with loops. I still think it's a great resource, and I think it's available as download now on their website.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

I think I had that, I think I had that a DVD set, yeah. And it's true actually, uh things that you sort of forget you do, but like lightly stretching them out before you begin and leaving it on your wrist to warm up, and um yeah, exactly. Because if you otherwise you I remember the first pack I used, I snapped all of them in about three minutes. Yeah, but you need to buy maybe two or three packs at the beginning while you get used to the limitations. Um, but then after that, they're pretty they're pretty durable, really. Like they they can easily last a whole gig.

SPEAKER_04 32:38

And I think uh I I've done a haunted deck with loops for for many years now, and we talk about a gauge of people thinking how things are done. The strangest thing, I would say uh well, I couldn't give you a percentage, but a a large percentage of the time people say it's magnets, which I think is really bizarre because of their cardboard. Um but I think that's a great, great choice in at number three. Let's go to number four, then Pete. What's in the fourth?

Loops And Other Visual Escalations

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Okay, what we've got um we've got a uh a coin unique, which is uh specifically the two pounds and 50p one. And the reason we've got and we've got a normal 50p with it, I'm counting these three things as these things as one thing. Um and basically what we're doing is um we're doing a trick where a coin vanishes from somebody's hand and appears under somebody else's watch, right? Which is an absolutely cra I think again it's it's a it's just strong as it's as strong as a trick can possibly be, I think. Um so just if you don't know what a coin unique is, but I won't tell you, I won't go into the exact mechanics, but basically you put two coins into somebody's hand, so 50p and a two-pound coin, they close their hand, they name, they choose one of the coins, or it feels like they choose one of the coins. When they open their hand, that coin has disappeared. And um you sort of pretend it's going to appear in someone else's hand. Well, but no, it hasn't worked, it's not there. But oh no, I must have missed. It's there. Yeah, turn your hand over, look under your watch. And there is the coin uh sitting under their like uh tucked under their watch, which uh it gets absolutely killer reactions. Both phases of it do, but together it's this perfect little routine. Um do you do you ever do that? Do you ever do the coin under watch?

SPEAKER_04 34:22

Yeah, I do, I don't do a lot of coin magic, but no, or me. That that is the one, and obviously the the coin on top of the hand also as a precursor.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Yeah, that's good. I I've never actually done that part, but I've uh you know when you see people doing anything, I should I should do that, um, because it's a good bit, yeah, on the on the hand or on their shoulder. But I I yeah, I literally only do it under the watch, and that's I uh that's pretty that's literally the only coin trick I do, but I think you can't you can't get stronger than that. I I really think even yeah, I think why why learn anymore almost that's that's about as strong as it's gonna get, right? Um so yeah, it's a great trick. Also, if you're sort of scared of um of putting a coin under someone's watch, which uh like obviously it's one of those things where you think I'm gonna get caught doing that, it's so sort of invasive. Um, quite a good way to do it if you're starting out is if you put something else in their hand, so say they're left-handed and they've got a watch on their left hand. So rather it doesn't matter if they're left-handed, but let's say they've got a watch on their left hand, you get them to put their hand out in an earlier trick, and you give them something to hold, like say an invisible deck in a box, and say like hold that tight, and you maybe you reach over, you grab their right hand and you put it on top of the box, and you go, Don't let anyone get in there, and you sort of but you're basically manhandling them, and and as you're doing that, you're sliding the coin um under their watch, underneath it all. Um, but because it's because because they think okay, he's gonna try and do something with these cards in my hand, they're absolutely not thinking about what's happening underneath their hand. Um so that's a good that's a good way to practice that if you um if you want to just get used to um you know to doing that without feeling like you're gonna get caught. Once you've done once you've got used to it, you can basically just grab their arm and do it, and they don't know to spur initially for the first the first yeah, the first few times. I recommend having some rock solid misdirection and uh just fight you find out that actually it's pretty easy, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 36:12

Well, I think that's uh another really good one, and it kind of harkens back to your object to envelope. It it's the idea that you don't really need to point out the impossibility of what's just happened. And something which you again you just said as well is you said it you might be worried because it feels invasive, but it's the fact that it is invasive which is why it's so impossible. It's the idea that I would have had to have taken someone's hand, turn it over, put the coin underneath.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 36:42

How how did you do that without them knowing? And it it kind of is pickpocket techniques, right? It's the the bigger action covers the the smaller one, and I think exactly uh what you just said there is brilliant. The idea of you using another object as misdirection, it kind of reminds me of the watch still, you know. They used to say, do do a different effect to fall back on, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Exactly, yeah, yeah. So even if you fail with the watch still, you've still done something else, or yeah, exactly. Yeah, and it's the yeah, it's exactly the same thing, isn't it? Um, yeah, I think it's uh I remember I had it done to me um when I was sort of new to being a professional magician, I and I hadn't really seen it as a trick to Coin Underwatch. I had it done to me by Paul Martin at um at some sort of uh event where he was wondering, I don't think he was even working there, I think it was just showing off. Um but he did coin underwatch to me, and I just remember that feeling of delight that I'd been fooled by it. Let's like, oh man, that is so good. Um, and uh so yeah, that was just that feeling was enough for me to go, I've got to learn how to do that, even though I'm slightly scared of doing it. Um yeah, it's a great trick.

SPEAKER_04 37:52

Amazing. Well, that's a great one in at number four. Let's go to number five. What's in your fifth spot?

The Sealed Can Drink Miracle

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Okay, um, so so far all of these have been uh fairly close-up e-tricks. Um this this next one is uh is more of a parlor y stagey thing. Um and uh it is uh basically I think it's um Kieran Johnson's thing, um, which I think he marketed as too hot to handle, which is where basically you have a um a can, someone chooses a drink, like from a from a list on your phone, or you know, otherwise from a flicky book of drinks or whatever. Someone chooses a drink um and you pull out the incorrect drink out of a little gift bag. Let's say you pull out a can of coke and they've chosen, I don't know, pineapple juice, whatever. Um then um then basically the trick is uh in fact well in Kieran's version they choose they choose something like hot coffee or hot tea or whatever, um, and then Kieran and then basically you get their hand and put it against the can and they they go, Oh my god, that's pretty hot. And you open the can and you pour out a hot cup of coffee out of this sealed um this sealed soft drink can or beer can or whatever. Um it's such a good trick. It's it's one of those things where once you've done it once, you're like, Well, that's that's in my repertoire forever, or that's gonna be because it's again, it's got such a clear um concept. Like you were saying about how direct the ring to envelope and wallet is, it's so clear what's happened. Like you've you've somehow got the drink I was thinking of into a sealed can. And and yeah, especially if you're doing it with a hot drink, and it's still hot, like even though this guy's been at the gig for an hour, like what how has he got a piping hot cup of tea on him? Like, it doesn't make any sense. But regardless of whether it's hot or not, I think it's a it's an amazing, it's an amazing trick. Um, I and I also combine that with healed and sealed, which is um uh Anders Moden's old thing where you seal the can back up and um then you pour out the full can of whatever the first drink was. Um so but this is a trick that I I work this into, I think three of my different Edinburgh fringe shows. Um I've I do it in parlour kind of gigs, or if someone's basically if someone's paid a lot of money and I want to make sure they think I've put a bit of effort in for a private gig, I'll I'll have a can of something. Um you know, even if it's like a private dining room in a restaurant, one of those type of gigs, um, I'll yeah, I'll be pulling out some sort of can of something. Um and uh but it's something that, like I say, I've I've used it so often in so many different situations, and it's one that um it always, always gets an incredible reaction, even if you don't seal it up and do the healed and sealed part, even just the first part, it's the uh people just they have no concept of how you could get something into a sealed drink can, right? Um and actually the method's very straightforward, and it's if once you think about it, well, yeah, of course it had to be that, but um yeah, until you know it, it seems inconceivable that you could have done it.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

So it seems like you have a love for item to impossible location at this point, because we've got uh a ring to sealed envelope, we've got coin unique where it goes under a watch, and now we've got one liquid inside a can of another one. So I think maybe this is your thing is uh one thing inside something where it couldn't be.

SPEAKER_01 41:09

Yeah, it's quite possibly. I do I do think it it's incredibly strong as a as a premise, yeah. So uh I hadn't really thought about that, but I think you're probably right. Um actually, oh I wonder if it's just my thing is I I just I just love really strong magic. I and I think certain things you can just tell by the reaction, they just get a different kind of reaction to certain to certain other things. And so my whole career I've been keeping little sort of lists on my phone and things of like, oh, that tricks, that's a different obviously they're they're all they're all roughly the same sort of level of difficulty, maybe, or but just certain tricks that that just hit people a lot harder than others, and I think um I'm always on the lookout for those and I just try and sort of file them away and think about how do I sort of squeeze as much impact out of that as possible. Um, but yes, objecting object to impossible location. Maybe maybe I am uh in love with that as a premise.

SPEAKER_04 42:04

I I absolutely agree. I had someone a bit like you mentioned uh someone did coin underwatch to you, I had someone do this to me without knowing the method, and that moment of the when you fill the can, it's a really weird moment because every part of your brain says this can should be cold. Yes, and it's just the exact opposite, and there's like a weird detachment where your brain cannot function and and work out what's what's what's happen- I don't I what's going on here.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Yeah, and you've even got that and that sort of like little verbal um trick there where you can say something like what's happening to the can and they say it's heating up, right? Because in in because in their brain it kind of is, it's gone from the cold they imagined it to the hot that they can feel. So in there in so it to them it is heating up. It's like so actually it was already hot, obviously, but they did um, but it feels like it just adds to the magic if they feel like it's somehow becoming hot coffee while they're holding it, like makes it extra magical, yeah. It's uh it's um really strong.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

And looking at your list at the moment, earlier on, I know you mentioned that you you kind of try and pick powerful uh tricks, but it almost feels like you've got moments of strange all the way down. It's probably the best way to to to talk about it because if I was a spectator talking about what you've just performed, well, you know, he he took a deck of cards, he put them on the table, somehow they just started moving on their own and found my card, and then I named one and it was the only card that was in his pocket, and then he borrowed my ring and it was in a sealed envelope inside a zip, inside his wallet, and then he took a can of drink and made it heat up, and it was a cup of tea inside a Fanta Orange. What? Like, you've just got these little anecdotal

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Yeah, um hopefully yeah, I guess so. And and I think each one of these things, um they they're kind of worthy in terms of quality, that they're worthy of um being, say, on a TV show or something. But I I want I want to feel like they're seeing stuff that that wouldn't feel out of place if and obviously a lot of them have been on TV, like uh probably everything I've named, maybe the index not so much, but uh you know, it's the type of thing that Blaine or Dynamo or someone could do, and you'd be like, that's pretty much as good as anything else, um, as anything else in the episode. Um maybe not as good as walking on the Thames or whatever, but you know, like that. I want it to feel yeah, I want everything to feel like what what I don't like is these really procedural, even if they're clever or or um difficult to learn. Well, I I these really procedural counting lots of piles of cards and like some elms we count based tricks that lots of people do. You know, you know, you get people that are like, I'm a serious card guy, and they and then everything they do is a thousand elms that counts and Jordan counts and whatever. I think the that some of that stuff can be really strong, but it just sort of feels like yeah, yeah, get to the get to the point, dude. Get to the um because it if you especially if you had say two magicians at an event and one of them is doing lots of elms that counts, even if it is impressive and all the backs of the cards are now a different colour. If someone else then comes along and puts a coin into a bottle or does something does something a lot more kind of immediate and visceral, that's I think that's the thing they're gonna be talking about. They're not gonna be like, yes, but have you seen the guy with the little pile of cards? You know, uh uh so yeah, I think um I think that's what I'm always looking for. That sort of um strong image that just uh kind of tells its own story.

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SPEAKER_04 46:42

Well, I think you've definitely achieved that so far. And we still got three to go. So let's go to number six. What's in your sixth spot?

Predictions Peeks And Double Cross Details

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Okay, this is more of a stage slash parlour thing, uh, but I think it's uh it's been overlooked. I think a lot I think a lot of people do know about it, but not enough people. It's called the Unbelievelope. Um, and it's by a guy called Jeff Kayler. It is what it is, it's uh it's an envelope with a big window in the front, like like a cellophane window in the front of this sort of craft paper envelope. And inside that window you can see a piece of paper or a playing card or something that's there kind of in full view. And basically what it lets you do is it lets you switch that out for something that you've written on the fly. I'll give you an example. Like, like uh, let's say you name any word in that would be in a dictionary, and I put out this piece of paper and unfold it, and it says that word on it, right? Um so it's it's a switching envelope, um, and it's visually really, really convincing. And it lets you do things that normally you'd only really be able to achieve with like a master prediction system, you know, that like thousands of pounds uh gimmick that has to hang from the sealing. So in I'd say pretty much all of my fringe shows I've used an unbelievable as part of a method for something because it's the it's just such a such a fooling, convincing um way of showing that you've predicted something. Um yeah, I recommend looking it up if you do, if you do ever do sort of you wouldn't use it in walk-around, it's more possibly parlor, but definitely stage. It's it's a way of um showing that you've uh you've predicted something that has just been shouted out or um chosen uh very fairly in the audience, like a kind of um oh, I never remember the name of this trick. What's the name of the uh every time I try and say the name of the trick, it's gone from my mind. What's the name of the trick where you get people to someone chooses like a destination and someone chooses how much money you'd spend on your holiday? Uh do you know what I mean? Uh and then you pull out this this thing that says um that says all of that stuff on it. Anyway, oh man. Confabulation, there we go. Yeah, yeah. Um it's I can never, every time I try to remember to say that, it's completely gone from my head. But it's just perfect for a sort of confabulation type trick, basically. And it's pretty cheap, it's about 40 quid, I think, um, compared to the thousands of pounds that you'd spend on a you know prediction chest or a um so yeah, Unbelievable by Jeff Kayler, it's great.

SPEAKER_04 49:09

Amazing. Now, Devil's Advocate hasn't really come out a lot in season three, but I think he's gonna come out for this one. So you mentioned that you've used it a lot in various shows in different ways. Can you give us an example of one way that you've used it that you particularly liked?

SPEAKER_01 49:28

Yeah, sure. Okay, so I had a trick, um, I had a show rather in 2019 where this envelope is hanging up in full view under a little spotlight on stage at the beginning of the show, and my phone um a phone is on a little stand in the middle of the stage, uh at the foot of the stage, rather. Um, and the this is before Darren opened the show with the phone ringing, by the way, just so you know. So, in a way, Darren saw from me. But but basically, um I don't think I don't think he did at all. But basically, my phone uh the phone starts ringing, so the lights go down, the phone starts ringing, and there's a big screen at the back that says answer the phone, right? And eventually someone awkwardly gets up from the audience and they go and answer this mobile phone, and they're just you can't hear what I'm saying, but you can hear they're having a little chat um and they're being sort of they're being told how to introduce me to the stage. So they're told like pick up a microphone and they do, um and um and they go, please repeating up to me, please welcome to the stage, but you know, Pete He. And so and they do this big overblown into introduction with lots of gags, and anyway, and I come on stage. Um, but then the trick is um I get the envelope down. Uh oh yeah, I asked I then ask them their name. Okay, so oh yeah, thanks, thanks. Who was it that introduced me, by the way? You know, uh Jordan. Okay, go ahead, Jordan. Is that you down there? Oh, thanks for answering the phone, you're very brave. Uh, and then I open, I take the envelope off the wall or where it's hanging, take out the piece of paper inside, um, and it says something to the effect of um thanks, Jordan, for the introduction. Uh so it says it says his name. So it's basically the prediction is that um you knew who was gonna be the one that answers the phone, even though you don't know who's gonna be in the audience. So it's a very direct um uh thing.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

That's great. And one would presume uh structurally that's quite impressive as well, because that means that you are your own offstage assistant.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Exactly, it's great. Yeah, so you're there, and the first thing you do, you go, I think, what's your name? Um Jordan, great. I'm fit as Pete. But because they're sort of just talking in a fairly quiet voice on the phone, most people oh yeah, and it just flies by because of course you ask someone their name when they when you meet them or whatever. Um so you the first thing you do is yeah, you get their name and you're busy, you're busy writing that down backstage while having this chat, and you've got loads of time because uh you've got this scripted bit that they have to read. So, yeah, I love I love uh I love that as a concept that you're your own off-page resistant. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 51:51

That's great. That's so, so good. Well, that's a great one in at number six. You've got two more. What's in at number seven?

SPEAKER_01 51:58

Uh I've just put a peak device, um, and because I I was gonna I was gonna put um an impression board, like uh like I've had the Audience Wonderland um little mini clipboard, which is great. It's good for stage parlor, close-up. It's a little clipboard that fits in your inside jacket pocket. Um, I use that all the time. But actually, I think if I if forced to choose, I'd probably just have um the Acidus Novus, which is a little um a little peak uh of someone writes something on a bit on a business card or on a billet, a bit of paper, and it and they fold it up. And in the course of demonstrating how you can't see through this, it doesn't let light through, you hold it up to the light or whatever. But but by the time you've given it them back, you've peaked to what it says on it. And that just that's just always gonna work. Um the it doesn't rely on phone battery, it doesn't rely on AI or internet connection or anything else. Um, and it's just rock solid. And weirdly, having gigged both, it gets exactly the same reaction as an electronic peak. You'd think it wouldn't, you'd think with an with the clipboard, you'd think maybe people would go, that's better because you were further away and you never asked for the clipboard. But I I don't think it makes any difference. I think as long as you've done it well and there's been no conceivable moment when you could have seen it, then this it's it's just as good. It's all about your acting ability, isn't it? And whether you can convince them that you actually might be using psychology or mind reading or not. But yeah, the Acidus Novus peak with some uh with some either blank cards or business cards.

SPEAKER_04 53:27

I think you're absolutely right. I think magicians we tend to massively overthink a lot of things, and it's only when you kind of go out and work stuff and you see what happens in the real world that you realise magicians thinking isn't always right. And we recently went to go and see Alexander Marsh um in his show, and his opening is using a version of this, and it's only when you see that, and it go there's a brilliant clip of him on YouTube doing it on um Blue Peter in front of the camera, and you see the moment, and no one in that building has got an inkling of happening.

SPEAKER_01 54:14

Yeah, and it's going to work, and if they go, Can I use my pen? You're like, yeah, whatever. Like as if yeah, because it doesn't matter. Like um, yeah, and I think especially now as technology is getting more and more insane, there's a real shelf life to how long a dodgy clipboard is gonna is gonna fly because you know people, even if they don't know, they go, Oh, it could be some special pen or it could be I don't know, like uh I think if you can't just grab a random pencil or whatever and a bit of card and do exactly the same thing, then that's gonna be it's gonna stand you in good stead and be way more useful to you throughout your life.

SPEAKER_04 54:49

Technology's gonna end up being the mind reader. I heard a rumour, I'm not sure if you've heard this actually, of a house overseas, and you walk into the house and it can read your mind for you.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

No, that's nonsense. That's never gonna happen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:04

Well, that's a great one in at number seven. Let's go to number eight then. So, what's in your final position?

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Yeah, um, I was just considering changing this up at the last minute. So I put this is such a boring answer, it's bored me even reading it. I I put um, and this is again more of a stage thing, I put Sven cards, right? And if you don't know what they are, um it's like a little stack of white um other colours are available. Uh it's like a white cards that um with different words written on them, which you can you can show all of the cards very openly, you can mix them up. Someone in the audience can even mix them up, and then basically, like with any Svengali principle, they they lift they they they lift the stack at a certain point and peek at one of the words, and you you know, you use that information in some way, you force something on them. Um so it's it's like a Svengali forcing a book, but instead it's a stack of index cards, and again, they're so versatile. I I've used them for I think they it's got that real, it's got that combination of absolute simplicity, the audience completely can see these are all different, and it they could have clearly chosen anything except they couldn't. It's got a real directness to it. And I yeah, if you if you ever do stage stuff and you want a force that doesn't involve uh scrolling through a list on your phone, um then I highly recommend that. But it bored me as I read it, so I'm uh gonna change to a trick which if someone else chose it, I'd be like, ah, you can't say that, but I'm saying it. Double crossed. Um the trick where you draw a cross on your hand, it disappears and it appears on someone else's hand. It's it's overused to the point of almost becoming a hack trick because it gets absolutely insane reactions um at very minimal sort of cost to you in terms of ability or otherwise. But it's if I just had to carry some things around with me and you know uh know that I could absolutely destroy in a room, then Double Cross is uh is gonna be one of those things, unfortunately, because it's so good. That's why it's become that's why it's become so overused. So I think I'm switching to that.

SPEAKER_04 57:13

Okay, well let's talk about your honourable mention there for a second, right? So Sven cards, absolutely spot on. I think it's such a wonderful prop. We first saw them maybe two years ago. There was a uh French company who were selling them, and the quality were brilliant, it was such a fantastic idea, and I remember being handed them for the first time and not realizing what was going on. No, and then being told what had happened after, and it was one of those moments where it was a slap your forehead moment where you're like, How did I not how did I not see that?

SPEAKER_01 57:53

Yeah, it's mad, isn't it? There's so good. Yeah, I I saw them from the French guy at the same the Blackpool, I think, uh, and I thought I bought three packs on the spot. I was like, I'm gonna use that. So yeah, so if on this desert island I'm gonna be doing stage shows, then I'm taking uh taking them. But if it's if it's a case of I might bump into a tribe of people who have never seen magic before and wow them with some close-up, then it's um double cross.

SPEAKER_04 58:17

Okay, and let's talk about double cross. So is there we've had obviously double cross has been mentioned quite a few times.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

I'm sure it has, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:25

But we've had different people say that they perform it in different ways. How do you go about performing Double Cross?

SPEAKER_01 58:31

I try and make it as as invisible as possible, obviously. So so I I think what one thing one thing to be aware of is if you do suddenly grab someone's hand, even if it's to reposition their hands, it's suddenly way more invasive than you have been up to that point, unless you're one of these very touchy-feely people that's like constantly kind of you know jostling shoulders with them and uh ribbing them or whatever. That it can really stand out and they can remember it because there is a moment of uh just sort of discomfort as you oh suddenly is grab my hand. Uh especially I think, especially if it's some young woman and you know, you don't want to risk seeming like your manhandle, you're poring at the guests at this thing. Um, so so what I do to try and make that as invisible as possible is I'll I'll get them to put their hands out and I'll verbally correct them a couple of times first. I'll be like, oh no, look a little bit lower, and so they go a little bit, and I go, Oh no, a little bit more like and I can see there's a slight, um almost a slight stress in their face of like, oh, I'm not doing it right. I'm not doing the thing that he wants me to do. And so that way, and this is such a tiny thing, but that way when I finally do grab their hands and position them, it feels like, oh, he's helped me out. Okay, good. Like now I know what he wants me to do. So so me touching them is a relief rather than a uh a strange moment of uh do you know what I mean? It's a very minor difference. Um, but I think if you've verbally sort of almost not told them off, but got no, no, not like you know, a bit lower. No, no, uh yeah, so then so they they want you to help them out. They want you to uh show me show me exactly what you mean. And so I think that's such a minor thing, but I think that makes a difference and makes it a lot more invisible by the time you actually do reposition them. Um and then yeah, the actual the actual vanish of the cross. I um I put the pen lid in my mouth while so as a just to free my hands up while I'm drawing the cross. And then as I take, oh yeah, and I draw the cross on the on the sort of I guess you'd call it the heel of your hand, the sort of big fleshy mound bit of the base of your thumb, um, at the heel of your palm. Um I draw the cross there, and as I take the pen lid out of my mouth, I slightly lick my uh middle finger while trying not to look too much like a weirdo as I do that. Um, and um yeah, and then so just as I as I close my fist, my middle finger naturally I let it contact the the cross and just move across it. But so it looks in theory like you're not you're not sort of rubbing at the cross or picking it off, because I think that often looks like what it is, which is that you're rubbing it off your hand, right? Um so uh so then yeah, then when you open your hand, it's gone without you seemingly having done anything. And it is yeah, it's in theirs. Oh yeah, also um the I think it's important to um get them to feel like they chose which hand it happens to. Because it obviously you start with them with both hands out, uh or at least I think everyone I've seen that does it like that. And I get someone to point at one of their hands, and I just choose someone who is on the so it's it's gonna be their left hand because of the because I stamp it with my right hand. Uh I just get someone to the left of them, I just go, Can you point at one of their hands? And I'm and I I choose someone who it would be quite difficult for them to point at the other hand because they'd have to reach over or under the left hand. So just out of ease, I'd say eight times out of ten, they choose the correct hand. And that does make it way more impressive, because you because at the end because you definitely haven't touched them since the hand was chosen. Uh you know, which seems necessary, right? If you're gonna make it appear wherever they choose, you'd have to touch them after that point for that to for that to be the method. So anyway, so they choose that they choose the correct hand, hopefully. If they choose the other one, which does happen, I go, I don't try and over justify, I go, great, drop that hand down by your side uh and just do a magician's trose, and then with the other one make a fist. And I just hope they don't remember that part. Uh but it's less it's less strong for I I but yeah, yeah, I think um it adds something to the impossibility.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:24

One one of the uh you mentioned about trying not to draw attention to the moment uh as best you can. One of the solutions that I came up with it which would suit your style, I think, is to give them a shocking statement. So something where their brain cannot focus on that moment that you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:44

That's a good idea. What kind of thing do you say?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:46

Uh so I say, Have you ever heard of voodoo or do you believe in voodoo? Their brain completely disconnects from anything that's going on in that room, and they just panic about whoa, what do you mean? And that that moment then becomes absolutely invisible because there is no reference to you touching them at all at any point.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:11

Um, and nearly every time the the thing is like you didn't come near me, you know that the that's great, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:17

I like that. Also, actually, speaking of that, um, I think it's quite good to verbally get them to confirm that you didn't touch them. Um because once they've said it once, they can't go back on that. Uh it's like, well, did you do the did you didn't? So so uh if I I bring my hand near theirs but not to it, not to up to it, and I go, Did I touch you at all at any point? And they'll go, they'll go, no, because you didn't touch them just then. But in a way, it sounds like now that you've confirmed they've confirmed, didn't touch me at any point. So that's now the official version of fact. Um, but yeah, I like I like I love thinking about all these little subtle details like that because you do it enough times and you slightly modify things and try them out different ways. But yeah, that's good. I like that. Just asking them something that throws their concentration onto oh shit, what's he gonna do? Yeah, yeah, exactly. That makes it invisible. That's good.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:03

Yeah, so it's almost like the um the mentalism thing of just keep getting them to say yes the more or the psychic, you know, psychic mediums, just get the get the audience constantly saying yes, so when they say no, everyone forgets it because they're just hearing yes, yes, yes. Yeah, that's absolutely great. And I think it's a brilliant, brilliant way to close out your list. So we had with your welcome pack, we had the ambitious card, cheetah index, item to seal the envelope, we had loops, coin unique with a sneaky normal 50p in there as well. Too hot to handle. Uh well, I'm guessing you're gonna need a kettle on your island as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

I uh to be honest, out of probably laziness more than anything, I have off I often just do it with a not a hot drink uh nowadays because because I'm there, I'm traveling to some gig and uh yeah, exactly. Like it's it's a bit of an admin nightmare. You can have a thermos and keep stuff hot for a while, but um yeah, I'm not I think other other drinks still have they don't have that that shocking moment of them touching the can, like you say. But um I think just for practicality, I will accept the slight loss in uh impact for the sake of me actually being able to do it at all.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:13

So we also had Unbelieval, we had Acidus Novus, and we ended with Double Cross. Now, we gave you eight stricks, but you're only allowed one each of these, Pete.

What To Banish From Modern Magic

SPEAKER_04 1:05:22

So I want you to imagine that you're about to dig a big sandy hole on your island. You're gonna throw something inside and we're gonna bury it, never to be seen again. What would you like to banish?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:33

Right. Um I uh well my first thought when I when I was thinking about this was I want to banish, you know, in a rope routine when um when people do that sort of snippy fingers thing and pretend to cut the rope, but it actually does cut. I hate that. It looks stupid, and obviously nobody nobody thinks, oh wow, his fingers miraculously became sharp for a second. So there's no magic uh element there. Like I don't think you expect the audience to Of to think that. So what do you expect them to think? I think what it does do though is it exposes the method of the preceding phase, right? Oh, okay. That was actually a cut there. It wasn't all one piece. Um, so my first thought was um to eliminate that. And then it's typically followed by that bloody oh, the roops now become a solid loop where they kind of half-heartedly try and convince you with mime that that's the case. Some people do that well, most people do it really badly. Um, so that was my thought. But then I wonder if it might be better to go more general and if you if we're going to eliminate something. I think having seen lots of um even quite pretty good magicians, um I think everyone, and I'm sure this applies to me as well, right? Before before I go into this, I think everyone is too confident in their um in their angles and in like the fact that they don't flash and that nobody you know you he you get people saying stuff like it flies right by them, and I think uh just because you they don't point it out does not mean it flies right by them. Um I think everyone but there's no point in even saying this because the people that that are most guilty of of this will just hear this and go, well, that doesn't apply to me. But I think people need to look at their own act and not assume that laymen are as stupid as we think they are, and actually you look at your act from every angle, video it from different angles, and you will be surprised to find that actually you're flashing constantly. Um, and that applies to so many people. I was at an event um where there was a magician that came over to me, and I was there with my sister and some friends that weren't magicians, and he having I looked, I'm not gonna name him, but I looked him up since, and um he's got like a website and does a lot of events apparently. It was absolutely terrible. Every single thing flashed. I I was reacting and go, Oh, well, I mean, you know, doing that being hopefully a good spectator and pretend I didn't say I'm a magician, or I didn't uh um give anything away. But as he left, my sister turned to me and was like, Um, how was that was that good? Uh and I was like, Well, what do you think? And I was like, Well, she was like, Well, I kind of I saw I kind of saw how he did everything, but maybe that's just the angle I was at. And then everyone else in the group went, Oh no, I I saw that as well. I thought it was just me. And I'd seen everything. And and um and but this guy, we'd all been polite and we'd gone, oh well, and then he'd gone on to the next group and who no doubt did the same thing. And this guy's going about his life doing frankly terrible magic, and no one's telling him. So I think um what I'm gonna get rid of is overconfidence in your own material. Um, just watch uh watch it back on video. Or I don't know, it's quite hard to get honest feedback from people, but try and get some. I think, yeah, it flies right by them is uh is overused, I think. That's maybe that's what's going in there, that phrase.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:51

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting one. We've not had that one before, and I think there's two schools of thoughts there, because I also know that the majority of spectators don't look where they should, if you are performing well. So if you're performing well, they should not be looking where you want them to look. So you can be a bit more brazen with things.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:22

Absolutely, yeah. And I'm all for I'm all for brazen, bold uh moves. But yeah, like I said, only if they are not looking, if they if they if you're getting away with it. Otherwise, it's like as you go, they go, Yeah, I saw him put that in his pocket. Oh, you know, and you'll never know. You'll think, yep, killed it again.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:40

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that's a really good banishment. Let's go to your

Books That Build Better Thinking

SPEAKER_04 1:09:46

book, then, Pete. So you're only allowed to take one book on your island. What would you take?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:50

I I'm gonna give you a book and some honourable mentions. Um so I'm gonna take it's actually um a series of books, but I'll let you decide if that's about it. Uh Paul Harris's Art of Astonishment series. Uh um, not because I mean to be honest, the last time I read that was years ago because I've I've read I've read them all, but in terms of uh I basically I love uh I love it when when thinkers in magic just come up with crazy methods and weird concepts where rather than just oh how do I find the card in an interesting way, like uh his stuff is like it's absolutely insane. Like someone signs a leaf and then you put it back on the tree, or like, or um you cut yourself and the drop of blood becomes a ladybird and flies off, or like and there's these are real things that he's got methods for. Um you dig a hole at the root of a plant, and inside attached to the root is the ring that you know, like absolute mad stuff like that. So so it's not because I actually want to read them again because I I feel like I've read them all, but just just to show that I just just out of I I like I think if we're here saying we can do magic, we can you know we can work miracles. I think we often stray, we sorry rather we don't stray, we stay too close to established plots and premises just because it's the easy thing to do, and that's how humans' brains work, right? But um, I I think that kind of creativity and just go, no, if you could actually do magic, what's the maddest thing that could happen now? That's a great way to think about magic, I think. So I'd probably yeah, Paul Harris's books uh is what I'm gonna say. But also um honourable mentions go to Tommy Wonder's books of wonder. Um when I first read them, I must have been in a bad mood because I thought this is really boring. Uh I don't get it why everyone goes on about these books. But I picked them up again, I picked them up again the other day and actually read them properly. And I was like, these are actually amazing. This guy is a real thinker. Um, so yeah, Books of Wonder by Tommy Wonder. And also um books that I found really interesting are the Psychological Subtleties series by Banachek. Uh it's all really weird stuff, and it's not like necessarily even tricks, but it's just these sort of little little psychological techniques or tricks or kind of get out of jail free cards where if the if the if you don't get the peak, uh maybe try this or have a guess at this, and it's probably gonna be that. Um so yeah, I find them really interesting, and I think they're kind of required reading as well if you do this, take this seriously.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:11

Amazing. Well avid listeners to the podcast know what I'm about to do. So you have just said a collection of books. So if I was to give you one of the books based on one of the standout routines, which book would you take? Or if you can't remember the book that it was in, which is the routine that you would do?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:31

Simply because I can't really remember what's in any of them, um, and something that I've used in quite a few videos and things. Uh I I love the trick um ten segrety, which is like uh uh where you make a little weird sort of house of cards, but they're all like crazy. It's a bit like um Joshua J's balance thing, um, where you balance a toothbrush on a bottle and it wobbles around quite unconvincingly, in my opinion. Um but um but I think it must be based on Ten Segrity, which was in one of the Paul Harris books, which is uh you just basically pick up um a pack of cards, you balance it on a beer bottle, but it's slightly off-center, so already it looks slightly like that should have fallen off. And then you pick up one of the cards and balance that on end on the pack of cards, and then you balance another card at right angles to that, but halfway down the face of the card, so it's not even sitting on top of the card, it's sort of sticking out of the side of it. You make this weird little house of cards, and then you can put like uh I don't know, a sugar lump or something small on that horizontal card, and you create this weird little sculpture that just sort of hangs there in mid-air, and then you can just blow on it, and it all just collapses and goes back to separate objects, proving that you know they're not stuck together or magnetized or whatever. I just I love that. It's such a magical looking thing, and I I've used it a bit on YouTube and on different things. Um, so maybe, maybe whatever book that's in, sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:50

Okay, there you go. So you're allowed to take Art of Astonishment, but specifically that book.

Magnets And A Tarantula Prop Story

SPEAKER_04 1:13:57

Uh, if you were to take an item, then Pete, so something that's not inherently used for magic, that you use for magic, what would that item be?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:04

Okay, uh consider a couple of things. Um one thing that's great is um a product called Solo, which is a sh a show queuing um device. It's like a little uh a little device that sits in your top pocket, um, and you uh basically if you're doing a stage show, this is um you put little NFC tags, little stickers on your props, and basically as you pick up the prop uh and hold it near this little device in your pocket, um the it plays the relevant music or sound effect or lighting cue or or whatever you've you've want to happen during that trick. So it's just a really d unique, different way of looking at um yeah, looking at how uh how to do the tech in your stage show. Um so that's uh that's a great one. Um but then uh that was that was in my I consider that. Uh I also consider a 3D printer, which I've got one behind me here in this cupboard. Um you don't need to see that, but it's there. Um and it's good for just if you have an idea for making a prop, you can just quickly, or or participating something like for organizing your props, like little divide just to go in your stage case. Um 3D printers are brilliant for that kind of thing. You might knock up a prototype. Um, but then I changed and I actually thought I'm just gonna take some magnets, like little thin neodymium magnets, take a stack of them, because then you can because uh I I like you mentioned earlier, I used to work on tricked as a magic consultant, and so many of my props would just be what if we tape a magnet to that and then tape a magnet to that and put uh a little bit of thread on there. And uh basically they've just got these amazing properties which they can make things sticky when you want them to be, but they can pop right off again, and they can um you can basically do anything with some magnets. So I'll take in some magnets, please, so I can make my own tricks up.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:46

Well, I think all three of those were brilliant. We've had solo mentioned before, it just looks like such a brilliant prop, and it's just very clever, very, very clever. Um, the 3D printer is something that we're seeing more and more of, certainly in magic. Lots more people are producing things uh with uh 3D printed uh printers. Some of them good, some of them not, but some of them are really good. Um but magnets is such a great shout. Now, I'm gonna throw you one more curveball because we're at the end of your episode. Can you think of a time that you used magnets and it it saved you from a situation? So maybe something went wrong and you were like, the solution here is gonna be magnets.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:37

Yeah, um, I mean we use them all the time on tricked, actually. Um one time I used them in an interesting way. This is not uh not um a good way, but it's just interesting. Uh I had to make a prop where um where I make a tarantula appear, right, for tricked. Uh so the the trick was um the trick was uh we worked out someone thinks of a horror film and you've got this blank DVD case, you know, uh for older, for younger listeners, that's the DVD is a round thing that used to contain films. Um so you had a blank DVD case, um, name a horror film, and it was and it look and you're you're gonna open the case and that film's gonna be on the DVD, right? It's gonna be in there. But the the twist was they'd say arachnophobia, the horror film about spiders. You know, we would have appreciated them to force them to say that. Um, and as you open this thin, very slim DVD case, you open it up, and inside there sitting on the disc is a big fat tarantula that couldn't have possibly been in the case, right? So we came up with this concept, um, and it was I was quite new to tricks at the time, and I was gonna be the only one in the office because uh Martin and Nigel, the other consultants, were off on scouting a location or something. So it was like, right, we'll shoot that tomorrow. Great. Um, so Pete, can you make that happen? Come up with a method, get um here's the animal handler's number. Cool, I'll see you, see you on set tomorrow, kind of thing. And it's like, oh, I have to come up with so basically I went out and I found some blank DVD cases uh in HMV or whatever. Um called the animal handler, got to come in with a tarantula uh and um and I started just got to work trying to make these little um uh trying to work out how to do it. And I thought, right, it's got to have, I guess, a trapdoor in the box, right? And the and you want it to be invisible, so I followed the line of the um the circle that would be inside a DVD case anyway. So I made a circular trapdoor, didn't that with a scalpel but didn't cut all the way around, so it had a little plastic hinge, put a little sort of box thing on the underside of the case where the tarantula could live. So if essentially the little DVD would tilt down into the into the little recess, and the tarantula would be sitting on the DVD, and you'd push up on this little hole from underneath, so that pushed the flat uh push it up. Um and um and it would raise the tarantula into shot as you opened the case. Um but to make it extra, to make it so that the the case, the trapdoor stayed up once it had been pushed up, I put all these little magnets around the edge. Um, but what we quickly found was that um when the tarantula was actually in there and you pushed it up, it didn't really want to be pushed up, really piss it off. Um and it's like okay, but I think I think the yeah, I think we're taking the magnets out actually, because every time you open it, it would basically come for you. Um so I'm sitting there in the ITV offices with this like increasingly pissed off tarantula um uh trying to make this thing appear. Um and that is when you shouldn't use magnets uh when you're making a little tarantula trapdoor. Okay, I hope that's useful to someone.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:31

No, I think that's great, and it's a great way to round out your episode. So, one last time you had your welcome pack ambitious card, you had your cheater index, item to sealed envelope, your loops, your coin unique with a normal 50p. Too hot to handle, but a cold version. We've got unbelievable, we've got Acidus Novus, we've got Double Cross, your banishment is overconfidence in your angles, your book is Art of Astonishment, but specifically the one with the trick that you mentioned, and your item is magnets with a happy spider. Exactly. That's a great, great list. I think it's such an eclectic, interesting, quirky list.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:09

Oh, nice,

Magic On Camera Plug And Where To Find Pete

SPEAKER_01 1:20:10

thank you. In fact, can I plug something while I'm here? Can I uh mention something to look out for from it? I I'm gonna put out a uh I've I've nearly finished writing. I've I'm putting out a book about um magic on camera. So uh I think it's just gonna be called Magic on Camera. It's uh it's it's about with little stories from behind the scenes about magic consulting and creating and shooting tricks from different angles and how to basically capture mag magic well. Um so uh look out for that. That uh I've basically got to finish it uh any day now, really. I think I've got uh it's pretty much done. So if anyone's interested in that stuff or wants to make YouTube or social media or TV content, then that hopefully would be useful to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:45

No, you cannot plug that. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:47

Well, thank you for thank you. Thank you for hearing me out anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:51

That sounds absolutely brilliant. What a great concept because one thing that I mentioned, so people at home, if you're listening to this, which you are because yeah, you get the idea. Uh, one of the things that we tell the guests beforehand are the episodes where we get more comments and stuff like that, are when there are anecdotes and there are stories. And I think people like to hear the stories behind this stuff. And you know, from talking to some of the people, you know, Ben Hanlin spoke about some of the stuff that happened when they were filming Tricked with the car vanishing and the fact that things were warped in the morning, you know, and uh I can't remember who it was, but someone spoke about an incident with a fish on a TV show which went wrong. I think those are the things that a lot of us don't get to see or understand. And the idea of a book where all of those stories are collected, and I th I genuinely I think that's a brilliant, brilliant idea. I think that's gonna be a funny book. So if people want to find out more about you, about the book when it comes out, where can they go to, Pete?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:55

So I'm on uh Instagram, it's Pete Heat, uh Facebook, I think it's Pete Heat Magic, because Pete Heat was taken. Um and um yeah, I'm just uh I'm around, you'll find me. So I and I'll probably I'll post about it in the various um Facebook groups um uh you know when it's coming out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:12

And of course, go and see you at the magician's table.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:15

Oh yeah, please do, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:17

So you might be able to go and see some of the routines that Pete spoke about.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

Yeah, a couple of them actually.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:23

So that's amazing. Thank you so much for your time, Pete.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:26

No, thanks. Um it's been fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:28

And of course, we're gonna see you at the Alakazam Convention 2027. I think it's the 8th of May, if I'm getting my my dates correct. Uh, really excited to uh watch your show in particular. Um, we don't get to see the the lectures, but I'm sure that's gonna be phenomenal based on everything that you've spoken about and the fact that you know earlier on you spoke about that you love the nuances and and the the ideas behind performance, and it's great. But in particular, I cannot wait to see your performance. I think it's gonna be so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:58

Oh well, thank you very much. No, yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:01

It's gonna be great. And of course, thank you all for listening. Don't forget the tickets for the convention are on sale. And if you were listening to this in many years' time, they're no longer on sale, so don't go and try and find them. Uh, but I'm sure it was a great uh show and a great performance from Pete. Please do go check out that book. I think that sounds absolutely brilliant when it comes out. I think that's gonna be uh one that's maybe on people's lists in the future. Who knows? Of course, we're gonna be back next week with another episode. But for now, have a great week. Goodbye.

Final Thanks And Alakazam Unlimited

SPEAKER_02 1:23:38

Hello guys, I'm here to talk to you about Alakazam Unlimited. This is the best streaming platform in the world, I'm telling you now. With Alakazam Unlimited, you get access to over 150 magic routines. This is video performances and explanations. We have card magic, coin magic, kids magic, rope magic, mentalism, stage, parlour, impromptu, we've got you covered. All of this for the low price of just £4.99 a month. And you can cancel any time. Perfect if you've got commitment issues. Yes, I'm talking to you. Guys, you are gonna absolutely love it. If you haven't joined the platform already, what the heck are you doing? Alakazam Unlimited is a streaming platform that you need to be a part of. Not only that, there is also exclusive content only available on the platform. Check out now Alakazam.co.uk. Cheers.