Desert Island Tricks
Each week, host Jamie Daws invites one of the biggest guests in the world of magic to maroon themselves on the Alakazam Magic desert island. They are allowed to take with them 8 tricks, 1 book, 1 banishment and 1 non magic item that they use for magic! They even get a welcome package with a deck of card inside! We discuss their 'can't live without' lists and why those items were chosen.
Episodes are uploaded every Friday and are available via all Podcast service providers!
To find out more about the team behind Desert Island Tricks, please visit: www.alakazam.co.uk
Desert Island Tricks
Kieron Johnson
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
The easiest way to spot a real magician isn’t the trick, it’s what happens when something goes wrong. Kieron Johnson joins us to talk about the skills you can’t fake: audience management, timing, trust and the grind of making strong material work night after night. Kieron has been at the top of modern close-up creation for years and he’s also performing in the West End production “Come Alive, The Greatest Showman,” where he runs multiple sets across parlour, stage, close-up and an eye-melting bubble show.
We get into the thinking behind his signature “impossible object” magic, including fire-to-ice production (To The Max / Reborn), signed card to ice (Re-Maxed Isolation) and why he believes Too Hot To Handle becomes vastly stronger when the can is genuinely hot. Along the way, Kieron breaks down how he prototypes effects like an engineer, how he chooses material based on the audience in front of him and why souvenirs and nostalgia props can turn a trick into a lifelong memory.
Then we hit the hot debate: phone magic and electronic magic. Kieron argues that technology can weaken fundamentals and that “convenient” methods often come with a hidden cost when they fail. Whether you agree or disagree, you’ll leave with a sharper sense of what makes close-up magic feel real, what defines professional performance and how to build a set that can survive any room.
Kieron’s Desert Island Tricks:
Welcome package. Estimation Aces
- To the Max / Re-born
- Re-maxed Isolation
- Too Hot to Handle
- Isolated
- Cell
- Linking Polos / Lifesavers
- Linking Rings
- Card to chocolate bar
Banishment. Phone / Electronic Magic
Book. Simply Harkey
Item. Bubbles
Find out more about the creators of this Podcast at www.alakazam.co.uk
Actors, Magicians, And Real Skills
SPEAKER_04An actor goes to acting school and learns how to be an actor, learns how to do voices, learns how to stand, learns how to engage. A magician learns how to work with people and put up with people in bad situations and learns how to audience manage it. If we're closer to comedians than we are to actors, we we we learn how to stage manage, how to put our pain into our stories. But when you're not a magician, people can just feel it. They don't know how they know, they just know. They don't know how they know. It's and maybe it's a sense, maybe because a magician, say an actor learns some magic and he's pretending to be a magician and doing the magic, if something goes wrong, he hasn't got that life skill as a magician to call back, he doesn't have the fundamental training, he doesn't have the training. So I I think to myself, when I see these guys on TV and they're just doing self-working magic that makes them look amazing, when they they haven't put in the work, they haven't put in the time. And I and and I and I and maybe I'm just old-fashioned like that. I think as a magician, maybe there should be a law that you're only allowed to do electronic magic after five years of working in the trenches.
SPEAKER_02Every time we put online, which guest would you like to see? His name is always, always in that list. I think it's because not only is he a prolific magician and creator, but he also does regurgitation. You heard me right. Uh regurgitation and bubbles, which are really interesting because you may think that when I say bubbles, I literally just mean that little stick that you dab into that little cylindrical tube and then you blow the bubbles. It's not that, it is the most crazy, unreal stuff. And what's amazing is I know it's science, but it looks so magical, it is absolutely incredible. If you've never seen his videos, do go and check it. But uh, some of the tricks, of course, that he's put out one of his biggest would have been to the max. That would have been the first big hitter that I remember, and that was where you made a glass block appear from fire. There was also Too Hot to Handle, which was a phenomenal trick where uh liquid inside a cold can becomes hot, and then you pour out a hot beverage from a cold can. That's been on uh talent competition shows and different TV shows. I've seen it all over the place. Um, and I actually had that first performed on me in Canterbury, and I remember the feeling of it. It's an absolutely phenomenal trick, and it's also been mentioned on this podcast by various people who have put that on their desert island list. So today we get to talk to the man behind the myth.
Meet Kieran Johnson And His Work
SPEAKER_02Of course, it is the wonderful Kieran Johnson. Hello, Kieran. Hi, how's it going? Great to finally have you here. We can stop getting people writing in asking us to get you on there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's funny. Um, I've kind of like not taken a step back from the magic world, but I've not been I haven't published anything for a little while. Um kind of I'm still there. I go to the conventions and things, but I've just kind of been focusing on working and family and just other stuff, really. Um I also like out when I put something out, I want it to be good. Um, and I just don't want to put things out for the sake of putting something out. Um, and my my driver creating was never money, it was always just about the pursuit of a great idea. Um, I do have a project I'm working on at the moment. Um, I've been saying I'm working on it, I've been working on it for like two, two and a half years. So uh I don't know when I'm putting it out. Um, but it it's just kind of um, yeah, we'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_02Okay, well, we love a good tease on this podcast.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, sorry, I don't mean to tease, I just it's just like I it's it's not where I want it to be yet, and I just want to make sure when it comes out that I solve everything and it's it's done correctly.
SPEAKER_02Kieran, you tease away. You just tease all you want. We're we're happy
West End Circus Magic Daily Grind
SPEAKER_02with that. But we were kind of talking beforehand, and I mentioned a couple of things there, but you're actually in a West End show, which I was unaware of, but you're in a best-selling West End show and have been for a number of years now. Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so I'm in a show called Come Alive, the greatest showman, and it's basically um a circus show, and I do all and it's also um an imassive show. So basically, we we uh you come in and it's a whole circus built into this building, so you step into the circus, and it's basically we go back in time, and what they do really cool is before the main show, before the circus show starts, you have all these sideshow areas and shit stages, and I do all the shows in there, so I do all the like the warm-up show. So I'd I'd I do multiple shows for like two, three hundred people at a time, and and there's loads of little like things going on there, and I have my own stage, which is amazing. Um I perform uh a magic show for everyone, um, and then I perform a bubble show about five minutes later. I also have my own little tent as well where I perform like a close-up magic show, and uh, which is pretty amazing. I love doing that. So I do like a um I do like a parlor show for five minutes, then I I get mic'd up, and then I go to stage, and then I do uh a 12-minute stage show, and then I take a drink of water, and we reset the stage, and then I'm two minutes later I'm back on stage doing a bubble show for about 15 minutes, and then I leave that area and I go to another area and I do more of a close-up magic uh thing for for 12 minutes.
SPEAKER_02It sounds really fun though.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah, yeah. Well, I'm doing like so many genres. I do a parlor show, then I do two state different stage shows, and then I do close-up magic, and then I then I do close-up magic for half an hour later on in the break while the acts of having a rest. I go and entertain people. I say close-up magic, but it's me surrounded by loads of people, so it's almost like a street show in some ways. Uh no, no rigitation in that show, just just magic and bubbles.
SPEAKER_02Okay, wow, that sounds amazing. It sounds like such good fun. I've seen clips of it online, and it really does look amazing. It looks like a spectacle. I think that's in the name, so uh it kind of informs itself, but it really does look amazing. And obviously, you've got so many different strings to your bone now. It's not just about the magic, it is the regurgitation and it is the bubbles. How did you even get into the bubble side of things?
Bubbles, Down Syndrome, And Connection
SPEAKER_04Uh the bubbles. So um my my my daughter Elena was born about seven years ago before lockdown, and um, she has Down syndrome, and I was trying to figure out how to connect with with Eleanor, and I started blowing bubbles for her, and um she they said she you know might not talk or walk, and she was on opposite for the whole year. And I started blowing bubbles and she reacted really well, and she never reacted to anything, so I was kind of hooked on that. And I remember being at Blackpool before COVID, desperately trying to find more things on bubbles, and um eventually I I I found I found what I was looking for. So, what turned into a way of connecting with my daughter then became a thing where I would make videos, and and during lockdown, I was sending them to my friends, so I wasn't posting online, I was just making videos to cheer my friends up. Um one of my friends said, Why are you posting these? I went, Oh, no one wants to watch a chrome man play with bubbles. I said, This is just to make you smile, and um, and then I I posted the videos, and um I just no one really watched them for the first month, and then one day, one of the videos, I guess because I started being more creative with them, and then I guess the fear of no one watching them, I just thought, well, I'll just make what I want. So I just experimented and I hit the video hit right. Um, and it's a video with me cooking a marshmallow with a video, uh, with a bubble. So basically they turned the bubble into a flavor and they cook the marshmallow. That was my first viral video.
SPEAKER_02What you're doing with the bubbles feels impossible. You are literally creating impossible bubble moments that it there's no way that it could happen.
SPEAKER_04No, and I think that's what's been very successful for me as a bubble artist. I think most bubble artists and uh they come from a uh maybe they're a children's not that there's anything wrong, but maybe they they come from a different background of what they want to do. But because I come from a close-up stage magic background, I think as a as an artist, it allowed me to be, you know what, I don't want to do the same old things everyone's doing. Um, I want to see what I can do. Can I tie a string to a bubble? And when you say to someone, I'm gonna tie a string to the bubble, they think you're mad. But then I realized I could, and I added helium and I made my own floating bubble. And I just started thinking of like what can I do? And then I made a series, I was watching SpongeBob for um with my son a lot, and I and he does a lot of bubbles, and I was looking at what was fun in there, and I took ideas from that, and I just made those bubbles in real life, and I just figured out what the the the internet wanted, you know, what what people like. Um, and and and then I I also posted magic. Um, I was the first person to get Lolly Hero to go uh viral. Um and I have like probably a hundred million views just of me doing a lollihero. Um and then um I also got like some other tricks going on there. I did like an X-Men series where I talked about like I have this ability because again, what I decided to do rather than just treat it like oh, here's a trick, let me show you a trick. I decided to treat it like how I would perform it. So I performed it as a as a story, like when I was a kid. Um, and a lot of magicians got angry with that because they go, Oh, you're saying you've got superpowers. I went, at no point am I claiming I'm doing superman, I'm doing a performance. I am performing. But sometimes the internet doesn't understand a performance, if you know. Um, but I did a lot of that and and that blew up, and I did some of the regagitation, and that did really well on there. So my channel isn't just a bubble channel, it's like it's it's got lot, it's got all my different skills in there.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm excited to hear your list, and hopefully we see you one or two of yours in your list. I'm hoping so anyway. Um, so let's go to it.
Desert Island Rules And Card Choice
SPEAKER_02If this is your first time listening, the idea is we're about to maroon Kieran on his very own desert island. When he's there, he's allowed to take eight tricks, banish something, take one book, one non-magic item that he uses for magic, and of course, it's season three, which means he's got a little welcome package, it's all tied up with a little pretty bow. Uh, and inside that is a deck of cards. It's a normal deck of cards, and he's allowed to only do one trick with it. So, Kieran, with your little welcome package, what's the one ordinary card trick you would do with it?
SPEAKER_04Uh, I would do a variation um of Marlowe's Estimation Aces. Um, I absolutely love that trick. I have a lot of work on it. Um, I've I've changed a lot of it. If you don't know what Estimation Aces is, basically um you take four cards, you shuffle them, you can show the knot on top, and then you dev cut to an ace. It's a really great trick. Um, a lot of people have done variations. Paul Gordon's got a variation on it. Um what I've done is I've extended it for four cards to eight cards, and I've also turned it into a multiple selection type routine, and I've also added sign cards, which make it just more interesting um and just a bit more like exciting to an audience. When you cut to an ace, there's no emotional involvement. When you cut dead cut to a sign card, way more interesting. So if you do do SMAC Aces, have a play with sign cards and see how visually that changes that trick. Um, I also have a kick it to it um because I have my cards shuffled, and then um at the end of the dead cutting, I then um spread and all I put the cards back in, all the cards go back in order, and the signed cards are back in order as well. But I haven't published it, it's just something um I I do because I think that's even crazier. You've dead cut to all the cards, they've seen them shuffled, they've shuffled them, and then you put the cards back in, and then when you spread the back in order, it's just a great kicker.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think even just turning it uh you from an ace cutting effect into a multiple selection, even that feels quite interesting. The idea that you can lose these uh cards in and just dead cut to a selection, I think that's a really great idea.
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, well, Marlowe gave the foundations for a fantastic multiple selection. Um, just just it was just he was uh doing aces, but if you apply his thinking to that, you have a wonderful piece because what it shows is you can show the cards not on top, you can show they're not there, you can play around with the idea. If you don't if you only did say four sign cards, you could dead cut two sign cards, and then you could do uh uh a number thing. You know, I what what I do is I use seven cards, I dead cut to three cards, um, sometimes four, and then I go, I I dribble in my hands and I say, oh, 17, I'll deal down 17, and it's their card, and then I'll make the cards jump to the top visually, and and then the last card I spell their name out to it, and then and then uh I place the cards in, shuffle them up again, and then when I spread, uh I have it back in order.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that sounds amazing. And is this something that maybe you're gonna publish one day?
SPEAKER_04Um, I kind of like I I I feel like um I feel like at the moment, now I'm performing and making a living as a professional magician. I kind of just want to keep this for myself. And I don't mean this to tease stuff. I will probably share this. I'm doing uh I don't know if I'm allowed to mention this. I'm doing um the session in uh in January. I might perform it there. Um, but I think part of me just kind of wants to to to to work my own material uh for myself because I like I think when I was younger, I was really happy to share it all. And and I and I'm still happy to share. I love I love sharing magic. And I if you came up to me and said, Can you help me with this? I would help anyone. I love that. It's one of my favorite things is helping people. Um, but at the same time, I just kind of want to I felt like I was losing a little bit of myself when I was giving all this stuff, and I I I didn't have a bad experience, but I had people that would ride on my tails a little bit, and like you know, uh I was losing credit for a lot of my work, and I just kind of wanted um now. I'm kind of in this position where I kind of just want to do my own thing. I don't know, is that allowed? I feel a bit bad saying that.
SPEAKER_02I think it's really nice when some performers have that one thing that is theirs. I think that that's a fairly normal thing. It's nice to always have that one thing that people can see you perform, they know that you do it, but it is your thing that that's your effect.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, I guess the thing is also I never created any of those tricks to sell. Um, and I think that's why they were so successful because they were my working tricks. Um, and I think what I found is suddenly my uniqueness was being stripped away. Um, and and that's why I diversified in so many different areas now. And now, what's the great thing about my magic is it's so old that some people still do it and make a living from it, but it's not as popular as it once was, or or or what's really interesting is you always had to put effort in to make my material anyway. And we now live in a world where it's more instant. We we we can have a phone that does an app thing, or we can uh have something in our pocket. So we've traded um in my just my theory, even back 20 years ago, we would we would trade convenience for for over effect, and I think even now more in society, magicians are willing to trade convenience even more now than than achieving it. So, in a way, I've started doing a lot of my own original material again in my work because I know I'm no longer hearing, oh, I've seen that before anymore. Because as soon as I hear that, I stop doing a trick. Um, and that now I now I'm like don't hear that anymore. I start doing my own material again.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think the interesting thing with your material is as well, is it's so unique producing a block of ice. Like, there's that that's such a unique effect that any audience member's gonna remember that should they have seen it beforehand.
SPEAKER_04Um and it's still in my repertoire, it's it's actually on my on my on my on my uh list.
SPEAKER_02Oh, right, no more spoilers. So, on your welcome package, you are taking estimation as that's going with you. Let's go
Fire To Ice And Card In Ice
SPEAKER_02to your list then. So, what would you take in position number one?
SPEAKER_04Um position number one would be uh to the max or reborn as it's known now, which is the ice production, because I absolutely love that. Uh, you you show your hands empty, you set fire to a piece of paper, your hands smoke and drip, water drips, they hold out their hands and you change it into a block of ice. It's pure magic. Um, I did it at the um I do it all the time. I did it at the magic convention on um on I went to Craig Petty and Lloyd Barnes uh convention. But and um I did that and I asked for someone who'd never seen me and didn't know anything about me and didn't know any of my tricks, and this lady comes up and I do that and she just screams. And and because the the the magicians then get to see, because I was doing a show, but they get to see what that is like for someone that doesn't know. Um and the ones that did know, like who do it, understand, but it's just such a great trick, especially if you get it right. If you light the flash paper just right, you can get the ice to smoke. Because some people add smoke to it, but you don't need to. You can if you get it right, you can get it to smoke naturally. Uh, and and what when that turns into um to to ice, it's it's just incredible.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I remember again, I think uh I I can't remember how many years ago it is. I'd never ever seen an effect quite like it. Because your brain just goes, okay, I understand what you're doing here, I think it's a great idea, but how is this gonna work? How how is this gonna work? And you went through so many different prototypes to make sure it was as good as it could be.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and it's improved over the years as well, because um Mark Travis only uh sounds reborn now, and now that it's in a really nice leather pouch, it's insulated, we've tested it, we can put it in the oven. So imagine this: you put the gimmick in the oven, you put the ice in in the gimmick, and you leave it on 200 degrees for an hour and a half, it comes back. I had some guy with the original say, I mean, Indonesia this doesn't work, so I decided that now my my mission would be to recreate Indonesian um uh the environment. And I tried all I'd like and I I basically just wanted no one to be able to say nothing, like and and and I I you if you you never hear any bad thing said about it because it does what it says on the tin. And I think that's the important thing. Like when I create a product, I want it to be the best. I don't want it to be, oh, he bought out a trick. He never does that. Everything I ever did, uh always is always in my working repertoire, and it's always been important to me that it it it it was ne it's never been about making money. I I actually hate loath making money from um from um selling magic because I just think you you you morally it becomes less about the the concept for me. The art form is about creating the best moment for a person, and if I'm gonna create something with my name on it, I want that person who performs it to have that feeling.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think your effects do elicit that feeling. I I I remember, like I say, seeing that for the first time and being like WTF, and then the first time someone performed Too Hot to Handle, that was mind-blowing as well. You all of your effects always have that what on earth is going on here moments.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, I think that's just I think that's important, you know. The other thing is is a lot of that magic can be done to someone who doesn't speak English or doesn't speak another language, it could be done silent. You can understand that effect with a in a nightclub, you can understand that effect in silence. You know, that's that's what's really great about that.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm so glad it's on there. I think it would have been very sad if it was not on your list. Uh let's go to number two, then, Kieran. What's in your second spot?
SPEAKER_04Um, it would be re-maxed isolation, and that's basically um where you take a card, um, you have it signed, it vanishes, and you reach in your pocket, you pull out a block of ice, and you can show the block of ice both sides, there's no holes or seals. Um, and then they can examine it, and and now they break it open, and inside is their sign card in ice. So it's so re-maxed isolation, sign card to ice would be my next choice. Um, it's a trick I do all the time, it's insane. Uh, it's the final to my my card routine um that I do. If if I sometimes if I do the estimation is routine, I will do that as an add-on. I'll have all the eight cards in there if I want to. So after I fix them sometimes later on, I'll say, Oh, by the way, I've got your gift, and then I'll bring out the ice, and there's eight cards in there, and it's uh eight side cards from earlier.
SPEAKER_02So one would presume that you've you've taken the two. The max concept, and you thought, how could I make this even more impossible? And then you stepped into the idea of putting an impossible object into the ice.
SPEAKER_04Um, I think when I was working on the ice uh concept, that was always like I didn't really think about like I I was I was that was the first thing I wanted to do. It was just that it was easier like to to do the ice production first because I had to think about how to make that work. There was a lot of prototypes for for for Renext, um, a lot of Boeing, a lot of issues. It's it's not an easy trick to design engineer-wise. Now it works really brilliant, but it was a lot of failed attempts and um and and uh like Mark Traversoni um had a nice idea of of taking the metal bit back and laying it down, but it just took a lot of redesign to get it to to where it where it works, where where you can um get it practical for people that that that has taken the time. I I don't think the first version of that was great, but it but it was it did its job, but now it's I would it's in a really good place. Um I'm now worked on a new version because I I I mentioned that seals, but the the new version I I have is it's it's sealed, but that's not on the market yet. I feel like I'm teasing um people, but that that is something I am working towards doing. Um but the the the version like the version that is on the market, there is a way of uh sealing it as well, but it's it's a different ceiling. But anyway, um digressing, but I I just absolutely love that effect. I just think when I watch people check that ice and they're checking it and and they break it open, it it's mind-blowing.
SPEAKER_02So obviously, I mentioned earlier on that you had lots of prototypes of to the max. When it comes to putting these effects together, where do you even start cut coming up with the the the ways to make them work, so to speak?
SPEAKER_04Well, there's a lot of failure. Um, because I have another version called Ice Cube, which is a signed ring, it's not on my list, but it's a similar vein, it's where signed ring or signed coin is inside ice for real. I just wanted, I guess for me, it it it's it's a lot of just failure, trying again, the failure, and not and not rushing to to get the end product. When you when you're trying to make a trick for yourself and you're trying to figure out a trick for yourself, there's no deadline in getting it right. And but I think also there's a case of like going out, trying it out. Did it work? I mean, the first card to ice I had was sealed. It was a sealed block of ice, it was two molds specifically made, and they locked in. It just didn't last, it was too small, but it did work. I made a locking mechanism, it was insane. Um, I uh but it it went through a lot of prototyping, a lot of failure, and just a lot of just performing it and just testing these things. I mean, it's just looking at it as a scientist, uh like in that sense. Um, and I I should mention that the inspiration for the ice all began when I read Max Molini's book. Um and I I I when I heard about Max Molini producing ice, that's what I wanted to do. But I just had to figure out how to make it practical for myself, and also how to make it interesting. Because I I'm gonna say something very controversial, and this is this this a lot of magicians are gonna disagree with me, and I apologize uh to every magician out there, but this is just my opinion. I think making a block of ice appear under the hat is a pretty lame trick. I think maybe 150 years ago it would have been interesting, more because when ice is more impossible. So when Max did it, it would have probably been mind-blowing. But I think if when you when you see these other magicians that try to recreate this, it it it's not as impossible, but when you have nothing and then you suddenly you pour wool in your hand and ice appears or fire to ice, I think that's a more interesting effect than it just being to hours under my hat. Just my opinion, anyway.
SPEAKER_02Well, a lot of your your tricks tend to have like a scientific background, like that there seems to be some sort of science behind obviously keeping the ice to be ice for as long as you can um for sealing them, and now you're in the bubble world. And obviously, you mentioned earlier on about toasting the marshmallow of the the the balloon. So, is that how you your brain works? Do you look at the science of something in order to develop these effects?
SPEAKER_04I just think what trick do I want to do and how do I want to achieve it, and then I just work on it. Um, and and I don't know if that's a weird thing, I just kind of go with what I'm playing with at the time. Um, you know, and I and I try to apply that to any magic that I play with. It isn't just like my own stuff. Like, like I look at like as it we go back to SMAC and Aces, I look at that and I go, an audience doesn't care if I can produce the aces. Maybe some audiences will care. Um, but if I dead cut, maybe they'll care a bit more. I'm not um and and and you know, I'm not gonna say that that that trick is great for everybody all the time, because I don't think it is, but but I think it's 50% more interesting to some audiences, and I think that that's the thing we forget about as performers, that if you have all these ideas and these materials, you can get a sense of what type of person you're performing for. And depending on what person you perform for, you can choose the piece that you think is right. Because not all pieces are right, you know, you get a lot of magicians go, I do amateur's colour because it gets good reaction. I'm gonna be honest, like, yeah, you could do that, but if you just do the same thing all the time for that for everyone, and you treat everyone as as the same as everyone, then that that that's not how it works. That's not how it works with TikTok, it's not how it works with algorithms, it's not how it works with food. So I think when we when we establish ourselves with an audience, especially close-up magicians, we need to assess who are these people, what are they reacting, what do I think they're gonna enjoy? Like I, you know, I I did a um uh a routine recently for uh a bunch of people, and I opened up with the ice and it just didn't work. It it wasn't bad, they liked it. But I I got chatting to them, and it turned out they were really into cards and gambling. So I did a gambling demonstration for them, and I and I I shifted accordingly to to to what their needs. And I think that that's something maybe performers need to think about when we're we're performing. We have to assess who are we performing for? What what what do I have that I can do? I you know, and I think um if we just teach keep it a linear of like, oh, I'm gonna do ambitious, I'm gonna do job across, I'm gonna produce a block of ice. I I think it's assessing the audience and then uh choosing the pieces according to what environment you're in.
SPEAKER_02Well, in terms of your list so far, it's working for me. All right. So you you've you've hit you've hit 100%. Let's go to
Making Heat Feel Impossible
SPEAKER_02number three then. What's in your third spot?
SPEAKER_04Uh too hot to handle because it's just brilliant. And I I I see a lot of magicians do it with milk, and I I I just think to myself, you just just put the extra effort in, just make it hot. I know it's inconvenient, I know it's not as easy to do, I know this. Um but I've I've I've I've I've uh given you the tools, you know. If you're gonna do it, do it to its best of its ability. I think you know you have to think about things with puzzles like card and ceiling, wonderful trick, amazing trick. They don't remember you um putting it in the middle, losing it, controlling it. They just go, how's it on the ceiling? That's all they care about. Uh with the can, if there's a different liquid in it, it's like, oh, how do I get it in the can? Make it hot and it negates that question. And that's why it's hot. It it was cold originally, and but I hated that. How do you get it in the can? How do you get the can? Do you buy those cans? I went, gotta figure out how to negate that question. So I uh made it hot. As soon as I make it hot, it now goes from I wonder how he got in the can to like, what the is that guy the devil? How does he know? And even if they go, or maybe he made me pick it, or he got it in my head. You go, but how is it hot? They're asking so many questions in their brain about the flaws of physics that they understand, that that that it is no longer how is that in my thing. And now I have another version of it, and uh, if you are a performer of Too Hot to Handle and you don't want to make it hot because you like the visual of the milk, because the milk is a wicked visual, just make your milk hot. And and now don't explain why it's hot. Touch the can, it becomes hot. They touch it, it's boiling hot. They freak out, you pour out hot milk, you say, Oh, yeah, this is a process when I when I change it, it happens. Sorry about that. And now you almost apologize. Oh, this is the but the byproduct of it not going right. Let me fix that. And and and now that's really interesting because you're like, oh my god, he changed it to my drink, but it was hot because he did something, but it it causes a what? It's just really interesting to watch the brain. I think you have to be able to sit comfortably with an audience when you perform a trick like that, because there's a lot of silence in the trick like that. Um, when you perform some stuff, like I'm quite a high-energy performer, I'm quite crazy, I'm all over the place. But I think when you perform too hot to handle, you have to let the trick breathe. Um, in the sense of um how I perform it is I have them think of the word. I say object, I say whatever object you picked is in this bag. They already laughed because they know that object can't be in that bag. So I'm already creating a sense that it's not worked from the beginning. Before I really it's wrong, I I've uh say they're thinking of coffee. I go, whatever you picked is in there right now. Well, straight away, they go, Nah, it's not in there. So already we're already in a negative, like the what and then when you show it's fancy, they get they're relieved because they're thinking, how is he gonna make coffee go in there? And now there's almost not disappointment, there's more like, oh, I knew he couldn't do it. It's gone wrong. And I haven't already um, I haven't already gone it's gone wrong, but they can see it's gone wrong, they knew it couldn't be correct, and they're already that that that that realization. So it isn't like oh magician in trouble, it's like that isn't possible. And now when I go, I I then rather than go, oh what was it, change it. I put my hand on it and I say I go, that's not right, is it? I can see by your reaction that they go, no, um, I can fix this, and I put my hands on it, and I go, like count free, just say it, and they go, coffee, and I go, like I pause, snap, and I go, it's done. And then I just stare and I let them and they go, What do you mean it's done? I went it's done. And then everyone's awkward, they don't know what to do, and I say, touch it. And now this is the great thing, and they go, No, I don't want to touch it because they know now something's about to happen. They go touch it, and the amount of times I have like 20 seconds to go, come on, be brave, touch it. And then when someone touches it, go, Oh my god, it's hot, and then everyone starts touching it, and now everyone's like their brains blown. But here's the thing they still don't think it's coffee at this point, they just think the can's hot. So now when you open up the can and pour out the coffee and they start to smell it, um, you know, you say, Have a drink. Some people will drink it, but not everyone will. They have a smell, they go, Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. And now they just stare at you, and it's a really interesting thing, especially if you've been on the table for 15 minutes, and then you do that as your last thing, and that bag's been there since the beginning. I used to do a version where I would show it cold, then make it hot, but I realized if I just use time, I can make it interesting. And I I discovered this um with people's perception of hot. I was at a convention many years ago, South Iron Side, and someone said to me, Um, would you like a drink? I went, I'll love a cup of tea. I got chatting for 15 minutes to someone else. I came back and he went, Oh, your tea's cold now, Kieran. Um, uh I can get you another one. I went, Oh, don't worry, I'll fix that. And I just picked up the cup and went, it's done. And he went, What? I went, it's hot. And now everyone's touching it, they're all freaking out. And they're all going, how did it get hot? And all I used was the fact that I knew that if a drink was poured and it wasn't disturbed and no one messed with it, it's not gonna really, it's not gonna be warm, it's not gonna be boiling, but it's not gonna be cold. And it's just understanding people's concept of hot and cold, it's very interesting in time. So just understanding that they don't understand they they people think uh make a hot drink, it gets cold quickly. Your brain goes, Oh, it's cold in a minute. It doesn't work like that. You can leave your tea on the side and come back 10 minutes, it's still gonna be warm. So people don't understand the time of hot and cold, which is really interesting.
SPEAKER_02Well, from someone that's had this performed on them, I had this uh performed on me at a uh a magic venue, and I can attest that that the the hot moment is for me was more magical than seeing the liquid being pulled pulled out.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, 100%. So 100% more interesting because it now becomes of how did he get it into how is that possible? You know, we we we when we create magic, we we want to create magic that makes question in reality, you know. Um and and and I I think there's stuff that we call instant magic. Like I I see Double Cross as a trick uh in my mind. I know hundreds of magicians do it. I remember I was very privileged to see it very early on when it was designed for Troy before it was even uh a product. And the original version um uh Mark Southworth made was it was a squeezy thing inside the the uh pen. It was really cool. You press the button and it squeezed it out, so you didn't have to lick your fingers or get it wet. It did it for you. Um, he never released that version, but the but and I know that effect's really good, um, and it's a really great effect, but it's what I call instant magic. You get an instant reaction from it, um, and then it's over. Whereas something like too hot to handle, I would argue, lives in the psyche of they wake up and they go, How did he every time they look at a can, they're gonna go, but how how how was it hot? They go, yeah, like because it the the memory of that is everywhere, you know, and it and it's about like how are we getting into core memories? I'm not saying that like double cross isn't a core memory of you got the the ink on me, but I I I just think it does it it's more of a an easier win, in my in my opinion, anyway.
SPEAKER_02Well, too hot to handle what is going with you. You got a lot of ice and a lot of hot things. We've got lots of bottom goal going on in your island. Let's go to number four,
Rubik’s Cube Souvenirs And Credit
SPEAKER_02then Kieran. What's in your fourth spot?
SPEAKER_04Uh uh I I I don't know why we called it this. I think it would just it's a weird name, but it's called isolated, and it's not even an ice trick. Um, and this is one of my favorite things I created. Um, and this is um most people don't realize that like that this was the original, but this is signed Rubik's Cube in jar. Um it it's one of those tricks that if if you ever mentioned cube and jar, you would probably think of Henry Harris. Um, but this trick came out like four or five years before Henry Harris brought out his version. Me and Henry are really good friends. Um, and I knew Henry was playing around with this plot at the same time. I I brought out my version and then Henry waited and brought out his version. I remember when I gave Henry um Harris his version, uh, my version in uh career at the Fism many years ago. He's my whistle. Um the difference is that Henry has a wonderful way of um furnishing the cube, which is really nice. Um, and you could argue that an impossible souvenir is an impossible souvenir. Um but with my version, the signature is on the side. So they can keep the cube, break it open if they want to, they'll find nothing, and the signature is on the side, it's not on top, it's on the side. So it's the the Rubik's Cube signed, and they can keep that when the names on it. So it's basically signed Rubik's Cube in jar, but on the side.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I remember when this came out, there was such a huge buzz for this. Um, and it I think it, yeah, it was probably one of the first times anyone had seen anything quite like it. Um, and so many different theories about how it was done sort of floated about at the time, and some of them were crazy, I'm not gonna lie. Um, but to see everything that's come after that and to know that this was kind of one of the original versions of that must be pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think unfortunately, just because of crediting, because other people played with that concept later on, whenever you see a version, it has someone else's name on it. So it's one of those tricks I came up with, but even like but it's miscredited a lot of the time, um, which is really interesting. Like there's a version where it goes in a box and they miscredit, and I'm like, well, I let I let that particular person use that idea for their lecture, and now it's it's it's become theirs, uh, which is fine. It's just what happened it happens in creativity sometimes, but um, but you know, the the original concept of it it is a really cool idea, and I I just wanted something um to be honest, it came about because um I was with Mark and we were doing magic first, and I was playing with my Rubik's Cube, and I was obsessed with Rubik's Cube. So I love Rubik's Cube magic. Um I was um I I have I was very lucky to meet Take Mitsu, lovely man, and um he got me really into Rubik's Cubes, and um so he, you know, when I when I um was playing, I was a bit obsessed, and he was like, Oh, like you know, magicians are desperate for like like maybe working with shop is like Kirin, you haven't brought anything out for ages. I went, Well, you're just playing with Rubik's Cubes, you're not playing with ice or fire. I went, well, I'm really interested in the Rubik's Cube, and I remember he's like chanting to me, he goes, Oh, this is becoming a serious problem now. All you do is Rubik's Cubes. Uh uh and so on the plane on the way back, I went, I sketched the idea, and I remember I told him and he went, that won't work, and then I got the prototype made and showed him two weeks later, and his brain was like broken. Um but he wasn't really that excited by it. We we had it in um we had it for about eight months, but I did it at Blackpool, and a lot of magicians saw it there, and I had so many magicians asking me how it was done, and then a particular magician said, Oh, I figured out how to do it now, I'm gonna release it as my trick. I know how you did it. Oh, so that's why Mark got on it and released it. And I remember having a chat while I was in China about this to this guy, and um um Mark because he really had all the footage and it was on TV with Rune Castle, we just got it on the market, so that's why it went out went on a pre-order for five bumps because we weren't expecting because we he wasn't really about bond about releasing. I don't think he realized how successful that trick was gonna be. But also, it's a bit of a it's hard to make. Um, so it was a lot of work. Um, and then it turned out to be my biggest hit of all time. Um, so it was it was amazing. Um, I think to the max sell it still sells, but all those uh tricks still all sell now. They all they they never stop selling. The the royalties of that still come in. Uh even the the Cuban jar. I feel like the Cuban jar is one of those tricks that people keep to themselves and don't talk about on purpose. I think if you do it, you do it.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's another great one, a great heavy hitter on there. Let's go to number five then, Kieran.
Nostalgia Props And Audience Trust
SPEAKER_02What's in your fifth spot?
SPEAKER_04So this is probably like one that no one expects. Uh Sal by David Stern. I absolutely love that trick. I've been doing it 20 years. It's never not been in my repertoire. Like, um, I love it. I've been yeah, I've been doing it, yeah, 1890. Ever since it came out, the day it came out, I was doing it. So basically, um it's it's cards uh inside mobile phone, but like a Nokia old phone. So the back has to come. So to do it, you have to have a really old phone. But basically, you you your card is selected, it's lost at the pack, and then inside the back of this phone is a card, and inside is their cards. Uh, I love it because it is it's not cumbersome, it's not weird, it's easy to handle. Um, I I find mint tins and buttons and stuff like that a bit strange. But most magicians would think having an old phone is strange. But you know what? In 20 years, never had anyone question it. Just people accept whatever you tell them the reality is. When you're a magician, that's the the joy of being a magician. You set the reality. They they know that, like you know. Um if I you know, as a magician, you have the power of a doctor in the sense that if they say I'm a magician, oh my goodness, hold out your hands, give me. Your wallet, give me your keys. Can I? If you think about how crazy that is, that you go, I'm a magician. Oh, hand me your phone, unlock it for me. Like, who else has that power as a human being? Like, we we don't think about that, but that's a very powerful position to be in. Oh, can you give me 20 pounds? Can I have this? May I borrow your phone? Can I type it in? That's a lot of trust. Um, so magicians have tr a lot of trust when you think about it. Um, so um, yeah, so I I I I I love um Cell. I think it's just a wicked trick. And I've I I've David Stone's discontinued it to my heartbreak. Um, but it is a wonderful trick. I I think it's the the in my opinion the best impossible location you can do uh in terms of like a Mercury folder card. And and I hopefully if there is another version that someone's got out there, thinks I should check it out, let me know. I'm I'm always interested to learn a new one. I just I like that one. I just like um I just think it's great. Especially because I put it in their pocket, so it's been in their pocket the entire time. An hour ago, it's in your pocket, open up the phone and it's in the back. It just becomes impossible. Also, the great thing is everyone thinks it's that phone belonged to them. So you've created the idea, and when I take the uh phone I put back, I go, there you go. And as I hand it to them, I've vanished it. So everyone thinks I've just handed them it back, and I've dual reality the audience into thinking that I've handed them the phone in in in and I've just made it vanish. So then they go, Wow, they go, Wow, because it's vanished, and everyone goes, Wow, that was their phone. Even though no one has a phone like that, you can still make people think that it's mad.
SPEAKER_02Well, we've had this mentioned uh a decent amount of times on the podcast, considering it's such an old effect, and that the idea that people are willing to carry that kind of old phone just for this trick is a testament to how good it is and how much people like it. But there's also a nostalgia. I think we're we're heading into a time in history where obviously we've got the expansion of AI, and people are worried about that and scared about what that could potentially mean for the future, and there's this prediction that there's gonna be more call for live performance and and magic and performance in general because people are gonna want that connection, and you know, records are coming back, cassette tapes are coming back, all of these older things are coming back because there's a nostalgia. So I'm guaranteeing that when you pull out that phone, the reaction will be immediate nostalgia. And if there's a younger person there, oh my god, that's what phones look like back then.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, or I mean it's also about being smart when when I perform it, I choose the person who's more likely to have had a phone like that. But also the interesting thing is those phones are it they sell those phones now, again. Like um, like for kids, so kids do know what those phones are because if they're likely to have a phone, they're likely to have a Nokia or or something like that. So that that is not uh like I would say 10 years ago it would be a bit weirder for a kid, but these days kids know what those are generally because they they might have one, because that's the family phone or that's the house phone. So like we have one like that for my son, uh, because I don't want him having an uh an iPhone. So he has that. So you know he has a phone, it just isn't state of the art. Because I don't want him to sat there watching a video in the park, I want him to be in the park, you know, but be safe as well. So uh I think a lot of parents are thinking that way as well.
SPEAKER_01When I perform at gigs, I look at effects that tick these three boxes. Is it super strong and powerful? Yes. Will it last of your spectators for a lifetime? Absolutely. And does it leave them with a souvenir that perfectly captured the moment of magic? To be honest with you, it's not felt, it's not points, it's not important. It's something beyond the liquid port. Check it out now, guys, the liquid port.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's another great one in at number five. Let's go to number six, then, Kieran. What's in your six spot?
Regurgitation Acts And Versatile Sets
SPEAKER_04Uh, it is uh linking polos. Um I've been doing linking polos for uh since 20 years-ish. Longer, longer than that. Been doing it forever. I love linking polos. Um if so basically you take two polos. In America, you would call them lifesavers. Uh, though, interesting fact doesn't work with lifesavers, slightly different um holes, though lifesavers are the original, uh, and polos came out later. But the the polo um um you can you can have them linked like this. Um so I have a variation of it, it's a bit weird, but I swallowed two uh a polo, then I swallowed two broken bits. I showed that the polos link, I swallowed them, I show my mouth empty, then I bring back linking polos from my mouth. So it's my variation of that concept. It's a bit weird, but I love it. Uh I opened up my show the other day on camera on stage uh with that, and like talking about a kid and playing with sweets, and um, and it's it's a really interesting visual moment, especially with the polos. It is not for everyone. I I get that me doing those weirder things are not for everyone, but uh for me it it's good.
SPEAKER_02Well, earlier on you mentioned about your uniqueness, and you said uh it feels like when you put out that magic, you're losing a bit of your uniqueness. I would argue that there's not many recurgitators in the world. So I think that you're afforded a different tool. You know that you have that ability, so you can take these ideas and concepts and go, My god, I can do this thing. How how could I use this to inform the other thing and maybe make it more unique to me?
SPEAKER_04Well, I have the best version of um uh bit and restore coin you can ever have. Because um I can take the coin, show it's solid, show my mouth, I get you to sign it, I buy it, show it's bitten, and then I put it, and then I rub it against my mouth and it fixes. Because I can I have technique I've I've I've come up with, and I can do this with I can even put the coin in a pair of pliers and put it and then bite it and then fix it and then and and then um hand it back out on the pliers. But these but these are things that I can't really teach anyone, these are just things that I just created from my myself. Um I've got a ver version where if I want to do smoke from mouth, at any point in my show I can make smoke just appear from my mouth, or because I have the ability to steal the smoke and I can store it in my stomach. So when I want to, I can bring it back up. Just but these are things I can do that not anyone else can do.
SPEAKER_02There are also sentences that only you can say. That's just a mad sentence, isn't it? I can store smoke in my stomach and bring it back up at will.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's a bit weird, isn't it? Uh like um, but you know, um it's just part of part of me. You know, I I can swallow a lit cigarette and show my mouth at the and then bring it back. Um, but it's not for everyone. But I have a place uh in London, uh alternate nightclub that I perform at and I do that stuff and they love it because that's the type of stuff they want to see. You know, swallow a cigarette, show my mouth at D drink a glass of water, bring back the cigarette.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's why I'm I mean I guess there's a conflict here, right? With something like Come Alive, it's obviously a family show, so you're kind of restricted as to what you can do, but then equally it's supposed to be about the circus and about freak shows and stuff like that, and having someone there who can regurgitate to me feels like a given.
SPEAKER_04Well, they know they know of it. I mean, obviously, that's like they know that's in my school, my skill set. They've all come to see me perform at the box and they love it. But I think there's a time and place for for that type of thing, and and and and I and I I I think that it magic in the bubbles is so good that it doesn't need to be conflicted with those other things. As I said, like when we talked earlier, when I said you get a sense of what people want. Um, if I go to the the the box, and the box, so if you don't know what the box is, it's a very bougie nightclub, it's it does alternate cabaret, it's like four or five grand a table, it's very expensive, very exclusive, but it's also very inclusive, it's really interesting, very inclusive, exclusive, but inclusive. It's very and some of the best and most original performers you ever see. Unfortunately, you will never see anything like it. And they have some of the best performers in the world come to perform there, and they have one in New York, and I performed in both. And the the the the place there is that's the perfect place for that that type of skill. No one wants to make it see a card come to the top or stuff, they just want to see something they've never seen before. They go there to have that experience. So, as a magician, it's my job to give them that experience. Um, one time when I was performing, Teller came and he walked around the tables with me for about like an hour. That's mad. Um, and I I'm doing close-up like magic and regurgitation with a torch in my mouth in the darkness in a pumping nightclub, and there's Teller next to me just walking around smiling. Sometimes, as magicians, we have this thing where we go, I can't make strangers, I can't do a juggling thing and then do a magic thing and then do a juggling thing. I think that's absolutely wrong. I uh as a as a magician, your whole job is you have the ability to do whatever you want. You're a wizard. Wizards don't go, you know what? I only do uh tricks I can carry in my pocket. No, wizard can do anything they want. A wizard has real power. He's he's he's a magician. And I think sometimes magicians they put these, they say, you know what, I got all these amazing things, but I'm gonna shackle myself and I'm gonna go, I'm a mentalist. I'm a sponge ball kid, I'm a I'm a close, just I just do cards. And I think, you know, uh why are we putting shackles on ourselves? Don't get me wrong, you can specialise it. I love card magic, I love it. I can uh like I I I take weekly lessons with Justin Hyman. I love card magic. And I I I love gambling expeditions, I love um false dealing, false shuffles. I love I I do it for fun for myself all the time. Um uh, but I would never want to do it as my only thing. Um, I think as a as a magician, we should be we have a duty of care to our audiences to to be versatile. So, say I have a little kid that comes up to me, can I do something for that kid? If I have an adult that doesn't like car magic, can I do something with cards? If I have a guy that loves gambling stuff, can I can I do a whole exhibition? And I think I I like it, you know, it's it's interesting talking about eight tricks, but also I think as a magician we owe up to our audience to be able to adapt to what they what their needs are as a performance, and as a magician, you can direct that need, but I think also being open to explore what's going to be best for them is good as well.
SPEAKER_02Well, looking at your list so far, I think it's very varied. I think you've got something for everyone so far. We've got the obviously estimate and aces, so you've got a great multi-phase effect there with cards. Obviously, you've got to the max, we've got re-max isolation, uh, we've got two hot to handles, so you've got the hot drink appearing there. We've got isolated, then of course you're producing a car from a cell phone. Um, and now you've got minty fresh breath with your linking polo. So I think you've you've definitely got something for everyone, but let's lead into your tail end. So you've got two more effects. Let's go with number seven.
Modern Linking Rings Without Extras
SPEAKER_04Uh Linking Rings. Linking Rings. I absolutely adore Linking Rings. Um, I spent forever working on my own version uh of Linking Rings. Um, and I I now have a version um that I'm really pleased with. It does everything I need it to do. Um it was making it interesting for uh the challenge for me was how do you take uh uh an out and I hate to say it's outdated because that's a disservice because the Linky rings are brilliant, but how do you take a trick like that and make it work in a real environment? Because that's the difficult thing, um, is making it um work. And what I wanted to do is I wanted it to be purely on the rings. I didn't want to add a ring or borrow a ring or add a ring to it. I wanted it to be pure just the rings, nothing else, nothing added, nothing altered, just me and the rings. I didn't want to add it linking to my belt or linking to a uh uh a borrowed object. I didn't want it to be, oh, I've done the linking rings, now I'm gonna I I wanted it just to be how can I create that pureness with this one object? And that that's been the hardest thing uh with that. And and I I took it as a challenge, um, and I think my routine it's um I sometimes wonder if it's the right routine in it sometimes when I'm doing it. Um, but then I then I'll perform it and then you know, I I'd love to say that it got the reactions every time. Um but it it's still a great routine, you know, and I like and I love doing it for people. So, you know, when it works, it works. It's not that it ever gets a bad reaction, it's just sometimes it's not again, it's understanding when the the the right time for trick like that, the right audience. Um I've I've if I get the right audience, that trick can bring the house down. Um and I I work really hard, I've added lots of new moves and and and new concepts and uh uh to it. Um I've I've got a thing where I I take the ring and I shrink it and then I grow it and then I hand it out linked, and then I I I take another link, the two two rings, and I shrink them down, and then I link them and hand them out. So I I've worked in it making it very tactile. I've also like tried to add a modern approach to it, because what are they? Like, so I I go, these are fidget rings, they have a little bit of rhythms tied to them, so the rings move around. I go, look, the fidget rings, whatever gets stressed, these are my fidget rings, and I and I play with them, and I have a really wonderful thing where they're all linked, and I put it in their hand and they unlink it, they they have the magic, they they pull it apart. I remember did it to Lloyd Barnes' wife, and she just freaked out the first time I showed anyone that. Um, so I've really tried to make it tactile and interesting and um just make them care about it.
SPEAKER_02Now, what's really interesting is I know you just mentioned about what are they, but this is definitely the curve pull in your list because everything that you have used up until now is an organic prop. You know, even down to uh the Rubik's Cube is is still an organic prop, it's still something that exists in the real world. A phone, lifesavers, mints, even a deck of cards. But the Lincoln Rings is definitely the one that I don't think people would have had in your list.
SPEAKER_04No, I I but I think I just like I you know I love doing it. I you know, I I I I have uh like if you've seen me ask me to do it, it it it's very I've I've tried to approach the linking rings the same way I approach metal bending. Um, and I've approached linking rings more like a metal bender than a linking rings routine. It's more of a manipulation of metal, you know. You'd have to see it, but the it the I I I I I have the rings, they visually shrink in front of the audience. They see them melt, they see them expand, they see them link, hand them out, um, they can examine everything. Um, I work really hard on making it this very tactile, very thing. And and I'm and I also wouldn't like you know, it's not always been easy, my the routine. It you know, it's it's I I would like to say that everyone loves it, but it it it's a right person routine, but I like to have it in my pocket for when I do the right people for tactile people, it's brilliant.
SPEAKER_02How many of these effects have made it into how or have any of them made it into the come alive show?
SPEAKER_04They're all in my come alive show. This is my working set. I didn't want to choose uh a set of magic that isn't my working set. I don't want to go, these are eight tricks. This is all my working set. Um the polos, I will say I only do the linking polos um at the the the the Halloween. So I would say that was the only trick that isn't in my constant set in come alive. But the linking polo routine is definitely a trick I do in my all my other shows. Um I like but um for the Halloween. So I would say probably that was the one trick that I don't do all the time, but the the uh in in terms of the show I'm in, but in terms of like the gigs I do outside of that, um, then that's in in there all the time. Especially my box set, the linking pillars is crucial there. Uh but but apart from that, uh every single other one of those tricks is in my app. The only difference is I don't use fire for the uh ice. I I I show my hands empty and I have them place water in my hands and the water becomes ice. That's the only difference. I'm not allowed to use fire. So I had to come up with a variation. So I have a non-flash paper variation.
SPEAKER_02So if anyone wants to see any of these, that's even more reason to go and see that show if you're you're around. Uh let's go to your final one
Chocolate Bar Finale And Card To Orange
SPEAKER_02then, Kieran. What's in number eight?
SPEAKER_04Um, I probably should have put this as my number one, really. I don't know why I put it as number eight. Um, because this is a trick I've been doing forever. Um, I love it. It's a great trick. I this is in my if you come and see my stage show, this is in my stage, this is my ending to my show. Um uh it's cards a chocolate bar. Probably should have made it my number one, really. But um, but that that's a trick I do day in, day out. That is my bread and butter magic right there and there. Um, and I have a new version of it now, which I'm really pleased with. Um so um I have them rip up the car, and then I have them choose a piece, and then it matches. Um it brings the house down, and I have a way of it making it look like they tried to mess me up and then it's all gone wrong, and the audience just goes crazy. Um work really so hard on it. Um I tried to give it a very so if you don't know it, it's basically the card is um selected, ripped up, vanished, whatever you want to do, and then it inside their pocket or inside a bag, whatever you want to do, it's a bar of chocolate. They open up the wrapper, inside the wrapper is just a chocolate, you snap open the chocolate, and inside the chocolate is the puff. I do that trick. It's probably um probably the best trick I ever created.
SPEAKER_02This is another one of yours that I've performed, and I remember I'm I'm sure you took it on a DVD, if I remember.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's it's the bonus on Too Hot to Handle, and it's on the bunch, it's it's basically on elements as well. I have a variation of it as well, which no one ever talks about, where it's done with a lovely jubly. Um where where inside the lovely jubly um they open it up, it's it frozen in the middle of the lovely jubbly is the card. But no one ever talks about that one. I wanted to basically make a version of it where which which I could do um throughout the night. Um I I don't really do the lovely jubbly version much or at all anymore, really. I used to do it all the time, but I'd prefer the chocolate bar version. But for the heat, if you can find it, I think it's on Elements, which is basically the version of To the Max, it was the bonus DVD bit of it. So I don't know whether if illusions still have it on their the somewhere, but if you can find it, it's basically uh inside an ice pole. And that have a way of stopping it from uh going black as well. Because with um Michael Lamar's Iceman's come off, if you make it the card goes black. Um so one of the things I wanted to solve was stopping the uh the card from deteriorating. So it came away up with a way of waterproofing the card. And that way when it's in the ice it doesn't go black. Which because honestly, when it looks black, people don't like it, it looks awful. It's obviously not the same card.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this is such a phenomenal trick. And you know, a bit like too hot to handle, it is gonna require a little bit more effort to make, but it's really not that bad once you've done it once or twice and your teaching on there uh and the way it's done and set up, it's so clever, it's such a a great way of doing it. You can set loads up all at once, yeah.
SPEAKER_04I do, and and and you know, it that trick came about because obviously it it rides on the coattails of car to orange, and I I think car to orange is the most underrated magic trick in in all of magic. Uh, I think car to orange, if there was a trick that had a raw deal by magicians, it was car to orange. Um, because people don't understand it the in the sense that if you go in a kid's magic trick, it's in there. They they they they went, you know what, out of all the tricks, we're gonna get rid of that. That's a rubbish trick. Uh that that that's I would say that card to orange has had the biggest disservice as a as a magic trick. It is literally one of the strongest tricks you can do. Anyone that does that, and you can argue with me that sign card over non-signed card is important. I personally don't think it matters. I honestly believe that. Now you might say, Kirin, why is the sign card an ice? Um and I think about that sometimes. Um, but I I I I um I think it's controversially that the the chocolate bar is stronger than the cardin ice. I think it's stronger. I think it's a stronger trick by a million miles.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think it's a great way to round out your list, but we gave you eight tricks.
Banishment Of Phone And App Magic
SPEAKER_02You're only allowed one each of these, Kieran. So I want you to imagine that you're about to dig a big sandy hole. We're gonna throw something inside, never to be seen again on this earth. What's your banishment?
SPEAKER_04Phone magic. Simple as that. Because I think I think uh it it's uh well maybe just electronic magic, which I know I I have a bell, so I I do I'm a I'm a I'm a I'm a Philistine because I have a bell that rings and I love it. I use it in my show all the time. But I I I I think anything that does the magic for you without being a magician. So if you've got a uh write down on a pad and then it goes on a dictionary and you haven't done any of the work, you could make the argument to be oh, it's presentation, but ultimately you haven't you haven't done anything. You might as well just be an actor, and this is why those magicians that go actors are magicians, then think that you can say that, which is not true because actors make terrible magicians, not all actors, because obviously Simon Lincoln's an amazing actor and Andy Nyman, but generally an actor without an interest in magic is not a great magician because they don't a magician is so different from an actor, it's unbelievable. Um, and I'm sorry, this is gonna be a huge debate because loads of people go, they like to they go, an actor is just a magician, and I'm like, it's the stupidest quote in ever because an actor goes to acting school and learns how to be an actor, learns how to do voices, learns how to stand, learns how to engage. A magician learns how to work with people and put up with people in bad situations and learns how to audience manage it. If we we're closer to comedians than we are to actors. Um, we we we learn how to stage manage, how to put our pain into our stories. Uh an a magician has to be a sense that you're you're part of who you are. An actor has to bring part of you, but they're playing different parts. I think that's why when we see actors do like you know, I I wanted Darren Brown's show to do well, but when you're not a magician, people can just feel it. They don't know how they know, they just know. They don't know how they know. It's and maybe it's a sense, maybe because a magician, say an actor learns some magic and he's pretending to be a magician and doing the magic, if something goes wrong, he hasn't got that life skill as a magician to call back, he doesn't have the fundamental training, he doesn't have the training. So I I I think to myself when I see these guys on TV and they're just doing self-working uh magic that makes them look amazing, when they they haven't put in the work, they haven't put in the time, and I and and and I and maybe I'm just old-fashioned like that. I I I don't I'm not saying that you have to be the that you can't put electronic magic in your magic because there's some wonderful stuff like Digital Force Bag is amazing, it's a great app. Unexpected caller, what a great app! They're they're great, but I've and I think there's some magic that's electronic that just allows your audience, you know. I I I think it weakens us as magicians. Um I think that the I I think you know you have to work and get you get your um get your feet wet or you deep your hands or whatever those sentences are. I think as a magician, maybe there should be a law that you're only allowed to do electronic magic after five years of working in the trenches. Um because you you you you you could easily be a magician with just a phone, but are you a magician? I would question that. I would, I would, uh if it was me, I would morally question, am I a magician? What do you do if you lose your phone? You get to a gig and and and the world uh your phone stops working, what do you do? You know. Um I guess you could argue what would happen, say, Kieran, you forgot your jacket or you got mugged and you turned up to a gig and you're in your underwear, what do you do? I could do an hour in my underwear, I could just riff for an hour in my underwear. And I think about that as a magician all the time. If I was trapped in the middle of nowhere, just in a pair of uh swimming shorts, could I do magic? And the answer is yes, I can I can use my environment around me, and I think maybe as magicians we're losing that, we're require we're buying props that do things for us. You know, I look at Blackpool now, and I I don't get me wrong, this stuff we see is amazing. But I just look at it and I'm like, that the the modern technology is robbing magicians, it's robbing us of our core fundamentals, you know, and and then at the same time, but like our our belief in exposure, we're now like seeing all these influencer magicians just filming, not even doing anything. They just stood there filming a demo of a of Blackpool and then getting 20 million views. They haven't earned anything to get those views, they just film some guy doing a trick, and then it just exposes magic. You know, I had a guy recently um I went to his table, and he goes, Oh, I don't respect magicians, you just buy stuff from magic shops and it's all electronic stuff. And I said, Well, give me something and let me let you have. And he went, and he gave me a coin, and I just did uh an improvised coin routine, and then I changed the coin into ice and I just went with that, and he was freaking out, and he went, Oh, you're the real deal. And I think that that that we don't see this impact yet, but I think it's gonna impact magic the more technology, and I think technology impacts all all industries, art, acting, film, music. Um it's it's it it doesn't um distimigrate about what what it's trying to take away from us. And I think if if my one advice as a magician is learn your fundamentals, learn how to do something with a coin, learn some impromptu mentalism, learn something to a pack of cards. Like I had a guy, he had his own cards with me, he went, do a card routine, and I can. I did estimation aces with his cards, and blew it blew their minds, you know. So having those fundamentals is important uh as a magician. Um, and and you know, I love making stuff and putting the time in, but I also think it's important that if I was to walk into a room, could I do magic without anything? Uh with some borrowed objects. Um, and the truth is I can. And I'm not doing that as a flex to think I'm amazing. I just I think that's what you should be to be a magician. What would you do? And I'm not on about like EDCs and impromptu magic because I I actually don't believe in impromptu magic. I think impromptu magic's a lie that magicians are sold to themselves and other magicians. It's it's it doesn't exist. I've only ever seen two impromptu, uh a real impromptu piece of magic in my life, and that was Rocky Solano. I was in uh a bar when I was young uh at a convention, and a a can was on the table, and he put his hand and he started moving it, and the can moved off the table, flipped, and went into the bin. Um, and it freaked everyone out. And I went up to him and I said, How did you do that? And he said, Kieran, if you look around, there's magic to be seen everywhere. But but how did you do it? Go back to the bar. So I went back to the bar and I asked for the can and I put the can on the table, and the can moved, and basically it was wet, and there was a fan pushing it. Rocco saw this happen, and he he he moved in on this moment, and he took a pure moment and made us all think he did it. Um, and and I think that this concept of these EDC things, um, at the end of the day, you can go, yes, magic's impromptu, but you still have to have the skill, you still have to have a coin, or you still have to have a card, you know. Um, you still have to even even if it is impromptu, it it's still you have to have the knowledge to do the impromptu. So by by having the knowledge, does that make it impromptu? I don't think it does. And maybe this is a discussion for another day on some other podcast about impromptu. But if I go to a bar and I go, ah, I've got nothing, but I prepped 20 things in my head. Is that that's not impromptu? That's just preparation. Um, you know, you know, you you can go, oh, but I could do a coin the watch. But you still had to learn how to do the coin to the watch. But I wouldn't say it was impromptu because you still have the have the fundamental core skills to do it. There's no easy way of being a magician, there's no easy out. You have to put in the work. If you build a house, you have to build foundations and build a house up. Same as the magician. The only reason I could do so many different things is because I put the work in. My natural gift is I can re I have a weird genetic condition, but to be able to, I still had to train it and learn how to use it and how to think about how to use it and mismipole it and then apply things like how can I use that to switch things in, how can I switch things out, how can I use it in a magical way. Um, but yes, I had a core, a core thing, but I still had to think my imagination and I had to train it and and develop it. And I think as a magician, we we really should be developing those core skills of magic. Um, and I think that's really important. Sorry to go on about that.
SPEAKER_02There's kind of there's there's a lot to think about in that, you know, that there's a moment where you've you've practiced something for ages and you take it out into the real world and it works. There's this sense of achievement in yourself. No, none of the audience understand that you've spent months and months doing this thing, but inside you just go, oh my god, that worked. I've I've just spent six months getting this trick down, getting this sleight of hand down for this moment, and it's worked, it it completely works. So there's there's this juxtaposed thing in our industry where the majority of it is hobbyists, and then you've got the professionals, and I think a lot of the professionals are trying to seek those more sleight of handy things and the things that take a bit more practice because they get more fulfillment out of that. Whereas the hobbyist is just looking for, well, I want something quick, I want it easy, I want it to impress my friends and my family. And the other argument that I would have for that, because we love Devil's Advocate on this podcast, is should the fact that an effect is electronic but impactful stop you from performing it if it's about the audience? So if there's an incredible electronic effect that you know is an amazing experience for the audience, does it matter that that is necessarily electronic or not? So there's so much to think about when it comes to this sort of thing, but there's lots of schools of thought to go down, I think.
SPEAKER_04I I just think that you know um the problem with electronic magic is not when it's it's not if it goes wrong, it's when it goes wrong. You know, I remember watching Os Pellman perform on a uh on a TV thing, um, and he did a a watch that does itself. I won't obviously go into that. It doesn't work. And he panics. Don't like, you know, like I I just think I'm not I'm not saying it's a dislike, I just think that the the whole point I I I I do get that there's engineering and magic. I mean I'm an engineer, I love engineering. I mean like a lot of the stuff you have to do is engineering. I love engineering, and uh but but my tricks don't rely on something else to do it other than my brain and the effort I put in. The can is hot because I put the effort in. It isn't because a device sent it to the can and the can warmed up, you know. Um and I and I guess like maybe I'm uh very old-fashioned that I'm an analog magician in a digital world. But I just think that when um when you rely on these things all the time, I'm sorry. You're not a magician, you're just the guy using electronics. I'm sorry if that's heartbreaking. If you can't do core skills, whether you're a a professional or a hobbyist, then you're not really a magician, in my opinion. You're just a guy that can use a phone app. And I'm sorry, that that's probably harsh, and that I'm probably uh but I'm just gonna believe in what I'm saying. You know, I'm not saying that you have to do double lifts and stuff, but I think that that there's more to being a magician than than stuff. But if it this is your hobby and you enjoy that and you get fulfillment from that, and and that is the joy you get from it, then that's okay also, because who am I to judge what you are as who you are as a person and what you're what you're going for? You know, if you if your goal is just to make people smile and you just want to and it's in your family, there's nothing wrong with that. I I you know that that's that's you know, I applaud that. But I just think that the title magician, it's sort of given out so easy now. Uh oh yeah, I'm a professional magician, I know six tricks, they're all on my phone. You know, you're just a guy using an algorithm. Um and like whether you're working or you know, uh I you know, but that this is again, this is just my opinion. It does not mean I'm I'm I'm right. It's just how I feel about magic. I love magic. Like, you know, I saw um uh a magician talking about like when you start getting paid for magic, you you fall out of love of it. I love it more now than I've ever loved it. Seeing people smile, seeing their reactions, seeing people laugh, seeing them happy and performing and hearing that laughter. For me, that that's one of my favorite things is hearing laughter or hearing wows. It's not necessarily like I love I I love learning a new trick, and I and I understand where you're coming from, that feeling of achieving when uh I worked really hard on my second deal the last eight months, and I finally had the confidence to do it in a routine, and then I'm like, oh my god, I'm getting away with it. And and I know and I I know that the there's the invisible work that no one sees, but I think that's that's the joy of of magic. And I and I and I, you know, I I think that you know, um you have to do whatever makes you happy as a as a person if you if this is what you like doing, then that's okay. There's no right or wrong to magic, it's just these are just my opinions.
SPEAKER_02Well, on your island, your opinions matter very much so. So phones and electronic magic are gone, they are all in the ground, they are covered up. Um, but let's go to your book then, Kieran.
Favorite Magic Book And Influences
SPEAKER_02So if you're allowed to take one book with you, what would you take?
SPEAKER_04I think this was a really tough, tough choice for me because I love reading books. Um so I I had to really like think hard. But this is probably my favorite book um that I have in my collection. And um like I think I think um, in in my opinion, um he's uh underrated magician, and that is Simply Haki by David Haki. He's he he was ahead of his time. He he's like, if you can find the book, good luck. It's a couple hundred quid. Um, it's an amazing book, it's full of creative, original ideas. He has a trick uh with a canon in there, and he's just really interesting. He has um another book called Aha, um, where he basically turns the cards into to cement and stuff. He just a really uh kind of like the same time before Jay Sanke-ish time. So that kind of thinking on on magic, like a young Jay Sankey, his thinking was I mean, even his thinking now, he's he's a really interesting creator, isn't he? He's just prolific, you know. He throws so much things at the wall, and he has a lot of interesting thoughts on magic. Anyway, I could talk about Jay Sankey all day. But yeah, David Harkey, I think he's probably the most underrated magician in magic that probably he made such an impact when he was around, and then he's gone now, and then not many people know who he is, but he kind of quit. He he he he came in, did two amazing books, and then kind of just left magic.
SPEAKER_02Well, when I think about your style of magic, and yeah, I know that you mentioned Jay Senke there, but you know, uh a couple of episodes on, we had John bullied and we spoke to him about some of his influences and the fact that the the world that he's in, in terms of like stage theatre magic, all of the things that informed that sort of quirky nature. Same with you. When I think about the books, I can imagine Paul Harris, I can imagine Jay Sankey, you know, the people that were not scared to just take random things, throw them together and see what happens.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, I I grew up with Jay Senke, um uh all his stuff. Like, I love his magic, um, especially his early magic. Um the the the uh secret files are like the best set of DVDs of all time. Like, you know, it's so good. Like the the the material on secret files is incredible, but then I also like guys like Bill Malone. I absolutely love Bill Malone and I love Marlowe. I love Marlowe stuff. I you know, I I I do Marlowe routine, I do a burning stuff. Um, I love all that stuff. Um, and I also love um Martin Nash. Um the car chi. I love all that stuff, and then uh RC um Darwin Ortiz. I love all I read, I love reading his books. I love how direct he is in his books. He's like, make sure you read this the way I intended you to write this. I did not intend you to just riffle through it. And I'm like, yes. And then I I want to skip on my I don't want to mess. I don't I don't know, I feel like he's watching me. Um, so I love all that. But I also love I Mamonica was gonna be on my list. Uh um because I think that's a great book. Um and this I I do I do my monica's deck, it's great. Like I was gonna choose it as my card thing, but that I just thought I'd put something that was closer to my heart, but I I I always I love my monica, I think that's good, and that book's good. Um, there's so many great books I've got uh on my shelf, which is good.
SPEAKER_02Well, simply Haki is going with you to your island, so that's gone with you. Uh, but you've got one more thing. So it's your non-magic item that you use for magic. I think everyone can guess what this is gonna be, but let's go for it anyway. What are you taking
Bubble Gear, Formulas, And Learning Path
SPEAKER_02with you?
SPEAKER_04It would be bubbles, bubble stuff. Um, yeah, it would have to be the bubbles because it's just it's just so good. It's magic anyway. People always say bubbles aren't magic, bubbles is pure magic, especially like if you apply like things to it. So, like um, I have a version of a bubble. So imagine this. I I I can make it blow a bubble, and if I want to, I can make it float around me. Um, so I have a bubble on a string. So if you think about how I would do that, I just make that string invisible. But the the the without giving any methods away, but so now I can have a bubble floating around me, you know. Uh so you can do some real magic with bubbles, it's it's it's it's real, real magic.
SPEAKER_02I think that's really interesting. The idea that you can take magic methods and apply them to bubbles. I've never ever thought of that because when you see magic, magic uh bubbles are inherently magical anyway, because it's uh there's the science of magic. And earlier on you mentioned obviously again, uh lighting the bubble to toast a marshmallow. But then attaching magic methods to that, I've not heard of that before. I think that's a really interesting idea.
SPEAKER_04Well, well, you you everyone knows bubble to wonder bubble where you turn it into a glass, so there's that. But I think it's but it but it's about like taking the bubble and then making the bubble even more magical by because especially, and here's the thing this is where I contradict myself. But if you had a a smart system, um you you could you could you could program that not that I would because I would I uh uh but the the you could you could do all kinds of stuff with that.
SPEAKER_02If someone wants to get into bubbles, where do they even begin?
SPEAKER_04Um so there's a there's a website called Bubble Wiki, um, and that will tell you everything you need to know about the bubble community and there's tools. There's there's bubble groups on Facebook. If you just type in bubbles on Facebook, there's a shop called Mondo Troll. Uh it's an Italian shop, but they have it in in English, and they sell bubble equipment. Um, there's various different people online. Um, but I think honestly, I was telling someone the other day, um, you don't need to buy lots of fancy equipment. You can get the tubes uh from like different shops, you just need some tubes, uh, and you need a good bubble formula, and you can make a lot of this stuff yourself if you didn't want to buy it. Um sorry. Um, so uh I I would do that. I I have uh my YouTube is Kieran the Mighty on my YouTube and my Facebook. I have the bubble formula there for free. The one I use in my shows, it's Guar-based um thing. It's free. There's loads of tutorials on those channels as well if you want to learn some tricks. My favorite trick to do is where you tap in the bubble in the bubble with your hands rather than your breath. Looks amazing. Um, so I I would go and have a look at my channel for some free resources and then think about what you want to do. If you go through my Facebook on my on my Karen the Mighty page, there's loads of tutorials on there, loads of tutorials on my uh on my on my TikTok as well. But mainly the best resource with tutorials is is is is that. Also, you could look up uh Mike's GUI's mix if you want to. So the problem with my mix, it only lasts four days and then it goes off and you have to check it away. If you wanted something more sustainable, maybe Mike's uh GUI mix, or if you wanted to just have it work for you, you don't want to put any effort into making a bubble formula because you can't be bothered, you could just buy uh Uncle Bubbles, and that would that's probably the best marketed one. Most professionals use Uncle Bubbles anyway. I just hate it because it's thin. I like a heavy mix. My bubble formula is super heavy. Most a few bubble guys I've uh people I've met, they can't even blow a bubble with my mix. I just like I I just I I didn't really know what I was doing when I learned in lockdown, so I just made this mix, I learned to get on with it, and basically it's like having concrete on your hands, apparently, as a bubble artist. But because I just make do with what I had, I just grew and now I do it on stage. Um, and that suits me. But like, you know, there's different versions, and and again, obviously there's outdoor bubbles and sweat side bubbles.
SPEAKER_02Amazing. Well, I normally end by saying, where can people go to find out more about you?
Where To Find Kieran And Show Tickets
SPEAKER_02But we know to now go to your uh YouTube anyway. But if people do want to find out more about you, about come alive, all of the other bits and pieces, where can they go to, Kieran?
SPEAKER_04Um uh I guess the internet, or they can look at uh just type in Kieran the Mighty and um yeah, you'll find me on uh really easily, you know. Um I've I've very lucky, like my my my channel has had like I've done over a billion views now on my my channel. Um my my Facebook is probably my most active one. Um, you know, I've been very lucky that uh the internet seemed to embrace me, um, which is nice. Uh but if you just type in Kerry and the Mighty, you'll find anything you ever want to know about me, you'll find me there everywhere.
SPEAKER_02And uh how can they book to see Come Alive?
SPEAKER_04Again, just type in Come Alive, great showman, or Kieran the Mighty Come Alive, and it'll come up and uh tickets are available on the website.
SPEAKER_02There you go. So make sure you go and see that. Thank you so much, Kieran. It's so nice to finally have you on here.
SPEAKER_04No, thank you for having me. I I um I hope I haven't offended anyone with my opinions. Um I I I didn't realize how um upset in my ways I am until I start talking.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's the great thing about podcasts like this, is there's lots of opinions, there's lots of points of view, and that's what makes the industry so nice. So, yeah, it's great and it's a lovely collection of tricks. Thank you again. Um, hopefully, people are gonna come and see you. And of course, thank you all for listening. We'll be back next week with another episode. But until then, make sure you go and book tickets to go and see come alive, that way you can see the majority of the effects in this list, and we'll see you next week with another episode. Until then, have a great week. Bye-bye.
Print By Magic Sponsor Message
SPEAKER_00Hey everyone, Emilio here from Print by Magic, and I want to tell you all about the incredible service we're now offering here at Alakazam Magic. We can print any design you like onto premium bicycle card stock. Want a custom back deck to give your magic a more professional feel? Need personalized decks as a wedding gift or corporate giveaway, or maybe you've created a new trick and need custom gaffed cards with altered pips or faces. We can do all of that, and unlike most printers, there's no minimum order. Whether you'd like one card, one full deck, or multiple decks, we've got you covered. Some of the biggest names in Magic already use Print by Magic. So if you've got an idea, we'd love to bring it to life. Head over to Print by Magic and let's make your dream deck a reality. Thanks, guys.
Podcasts we love
Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.
